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Onkyo SC5508 Surround processor [No Price Talk] - Page 80

post #2371 of 2742
Chris are you happy with those Red Dragon monoblocks?
post #2372 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

^^^ LOL I sold all of our Swan 2.3C below. Could not pass up the 2K for each ! Its a normal tower on it side, notice the fireplace in the back for size ! As picture show of this setup, the centre speaker is still kinda just there. That is still undecided.

Deep joy! If they sound half as good as they look, they will be fabulous!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

By the way the Onkyo is the best processor for the $$$$$$$. Nice to display gear we move !

Good to see the Onk in such good company - I just bought the 5509 and am very happy with it.
post #2373 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlknez View Post

Chris are you happy with those Red Dragon monoblocks?

They tested just as good as Emotiva mono blocks and they are 12 pounds ! I will only be buying class D from now on !
post #2374 of 2742
Cleveland Plasma,

I don't think your plasma is big enough.
post #2375 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by cougar75 View Post

Cleveland Plasma,

I don't think your plasma is big enough.

I think he'll get a stiff neck from staring up to the ceiling to watch it...

(I'm just looking for anything to criticise because I am insanely envious of his R & L speakers )
post #2376 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

They tested just as good as Emotiva mono blocks and they are 12 pounds ! I will only be buying class D from now on !

I have been thinking about going with class D amps from Red Dragon, D-Sonic, and Wyred. I am looking at the 500 watt mono blocks to power my Mirage OMD-28's. Presently I have a Emotiva XPA-3 powering my OMD-28's and my OMD-C2. I see that you have an XPA-3 as well. What are your thoughts on a pair of the Red Dragon M-1000's compared to Emotiva XPA-1's for my OMD-28's? I like the small foot print of the Red Dragon's. I know Red Dragon is working on their new amps and the M-500's will be released first. Any advise is appreciated.
post #2377 of 2742
LOL, we have actually have done that comparison >>> Click Here You know what they say, once you go class D, you'll never go back

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I think he'll get a stiff neck from staring up to the ceiling to watch it...

^^^ My neck has never hurt and "some kind" of unit has been hung like that for 3 years. Then again when I sit down, I relax and my body is not at all near 90 degrees from my legs to back. So the angle is just fine. Another great thing we have as humans in the ability to move our eyes up and down without moving our head or neck. If the fireplace was not there I would personally mount it about 6"-12" lower and that's it.

It was bitter sweet today grabbing a laptop and HDMI cord. Going to the HDMI outlet on the left of fireplace. Hitting PC on the 5508, and watching and jamming to videos on U-tube with no gear in sight ! Bitter sweet I say !!
post #2378 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post


^^^ My neck has never hurt and "some kind" of unit has been hung like that for 3 years. Then again when I sit down, I relax and my body is not at all near 90 degrees from my legs to back. So the angle is just fine. Another great thing we have as humans in the ability to move our eyes up and down without moving our head or neck. If the fireplace was not there I would personally mount it about 6"-12" lower and that's it.

The physiology of the human eye is such that it is designed to be at rest when gazing towards the horizon - i.e. slightly downward tilt from the horizontal. In this position no muscular effort is required. It evolved this way from many thousands of years of human beings being hunters (as did other aspects of our vision and also some aspects of our hearing). We do indeed have "the ability to move our eyes up and down without moving our head or neck" but to hold your gaze higher than the horizontal requires your eye muscles to operate and, eventually, this causes fatigue. So the ideal position for a screen is at roughly the height of your head when seated, so that you can gaze at it without muscular involvement from your eyes.
post #2379 of 2742
Don't feel bad, mine is higher than optimal now that I put my center underneath it. I'd rather have my speaker at optimal height than the tv.
post #2380 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

..So the ideal position for a screen is at roughly the height of your head when seated, so that you can gaze at it without muscular involvement from your eyes.

True; a good ergonomic principle important for work station computer screens as well. That said, the OP stated that, like many folks, he is not seated with "proper" upright posture when he's relaxed and enjoying a film so his head and eyes are naturally angled up towards that screen.

I have a recliner for MLP. So I'd actually like my screen a bit higher than seated eye level for viewing confort. And then another bonus is that I could put the CC in a better spot (under instead of over the screen), but I'm constrained by my current cabinet.
post #2381 of 2742
^^^ Right on, finally someone who understands That is my normal horizon right now seeing how I watch TV.
post #2382 of 2742
I think people have been used to having their TV's much lower, because of the weight of CRT's.

For a while I tried to get my projector screen lower, mainly because of what is considered to be the norm. I wasn't able to get it any lower than 1m from the floor, because of a fairly short throw distance. But having lived with it for about 5 years, I now realise that it works better than having it any lower anyway. Like SoM, I have a recliner - which is fairly laid back to begin with, but I push back a little for comfort - so having the screen any lower would probably be a bit uncomfortable. If anything, I could probably take it back up a bit.

It also means that I have plenty of room to put my centre speaker at the perfect height, especially now that I have moved my electronics to the room below.
post #2383 of 2742
I have seen the swans at the CES every year and while they look good, I have never been able to audition them due to the show floor noise
post #2384 of 2742
I have a 7.1 setup and am having a problem getting the sub to 'participate' in Stereo mode for iTunes music. The output is extremely limited. For HT, the sub is fine.

I have Paradigm Studio 20s with matching center and Niles Audio in walls for surrounds and surround backs. The sub is a 3 year old SVS PC-12 Plus with a 525W amp. The sub is ported and none of the ports is plugged although I did try plugging all 3 with no change in results.

I have run the 8 position Audyssey twice and made sure to get the sub to 75db as the first step in the process. I have the crossovers at 80 and the LFE at 120.

I tried different listening modes and noticed that if I changed to All Channel Stereo, the sub output is fine although I really do not prefer to use that mode.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Nick
post #2385 of 2742
Maybe a dumb question, but is there LF content in those iTunes tracks? You get more bass in All Channel Stereo because the bass from all of the "additional" channels are routed to the sub.
post #2386 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Maybe a dumb question, but is there LF content in those iTunes tracks? You get more bass in All Channel Stereo because the bass from all of the "additional" channels are routed to the sub.

That could be the source of the problem. Let me experiment a bit to see if that is the real issue. It looks like my question may have been the dumb one!

Nick
post #2387 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

^^^ Right on, finally someone who understands That is my normal horizon right now seeing how I watch TV.

You guys If I was almost lying down when I was watching a movie, I think I'd fall asleep! I do have reclining cinema seats but my upper body is still fairly upright.
post #2388 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsiret View Post

That could be the source of the problem. Let me experiment a bit to see if that is the real issue. It looks like my question may have been the dumb one!

Nick

pepar

You were correct. I downloaded some higher quality music with good bass and I can hear the sub now. Not as good as a sealed sub,but much better. Thanks for your help.

Nick
post #2389 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

They tested just as good as Emotiva mono blocks and they are 12 pounds ! I will only be buying class D from now on !

I also have the M1000 monos and can't say enough great things about them! Ryan's new gen monos should be out in the next few months. he got details posted up on facebook. They look amazing, 12v triggers, rca and xlr, normal binding posts
I as well am a class D man from now on!
post #2390 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

The system we had was just thrown together due to being to busy and not exactly knowing what we wanted.



I stumbled over this pic again and was reminded of a recent post on the Audyssey thread of a photo of impressive gear and some of the discussion generated there. I realize my comments may be unneeded given the sophistication of the OP and the fact the system was "thrown together" but I can't help myself-so no offense intended.

That gear is very cool, and Audyssey is very effective, so it probably sounds absolutely fab. But here's some ideas using principles of acoustics that should be considered in tweaking this system.

One, setting aside measurements and carefully placed formal acoustic treatments, this room could probably use some acoustically clever decorating. Strategically placed wall hangings, artistically decorated acoustic panels, etc., can help at first reflection points. Of course there's WAF to consider. Simply covering large area of glass with acoustic curtains worked wonders in my formerly too-lively room.

Two, ideally CC is placed so that tweeter aligns with FR/L close to seated ear level. As this is not practical in this case, at least it should be on a stand elevated at least 18" off the floor to avoid problematic acoustic interactions with the floor. Dialog intelligibility incresed remakably when I moved mine up. Tilting it so it's aimed at your seated head is also recommended. An alternate might well be a phantom CC, given the impressive tweeter arrays in FR/L.

Three, the subs look very nice there. I wonder if their placement has taken into acount acoustics as well. Two subs allows one the luxury of a very powerful tool for smoothing the bass-utilizing a sub crawl, one situates them to counter the interactions with the room. A good place to start is midway down any two opposite walls. Again, XT32 with its SubEQHT will do its best with what you give it.

Four, milk and cookies should of course soon be placed on the fireplace mantle.
post #2391 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post


I stumbled over this pic again and was reminded of a recent post on the Audyssey thread of a photo of impressive gear and some of the discussion generated there. I realize my comments may be unneeded given the sophistication of the OP and the fact the system was "thrown together" but I can't help myself-so no offense intended.

That gear is very cool, and Audyssey is very effective, so it probably sounds absolutely fab. But here's some ideas using principles of acoustics that should be considered in tweaking this system.

One, setting aside measurements and carefully placed formal acoustic treatments, this room could probably use some acoustically clever decorating. Strategically placed wall hangings, artistically decorated acoustic panels, etc., can help at first reflection points. Of course there's WAF to consider. Simply covering large area of glass with acoustic curtains worked wonders in my formerly too-lively room.

Two, ideally CC is placed so that tweeter aligns with FR/L close to seated ear level. As this is not practical in this case, at least it should be on a stand elevated at least 18" off the floor to avoid problematic acoustic interactions with the floor. Dialog intelligibility incresed remakably when I moved mine up. Tilting it so it's aimed at your seated head is also recommended. An alternate might well be a phantom CC, given the impressive tweeter arrays in FR/L.

Three, the subs look very nice there. I wonder if their placement has taken into acount acoustics as well. Two subs allows one the luxury of a very powerful tool for smoothing the bass-utilizing a sub crawl, one situates them to counter the interactions with the room. A good place to start is midway down any two opposite walls. Again, XT32 with its SubEQHT will do its best with what you give it.

Four, milk and cookies should of course soon be placed on the fireplace mantle.

Hi SoM...

I commented similarly on the centre speaker being on the floor and also on room treatments, but it fell on deaf ears I am afraid. In fact, the response was rather snippy. Personally, I think the system shown in the picture is a mess. I know the speakers must cost a fortune, but you can put the best speakers in the world in a poor room and they will sound bad. The subs look as if they have been placed for aesthetic considerations rather than acoustic ones. And the integration between those huge L&R speakers and the centre has to be appalling - imagine a side to side pan for example. I know this may sound like harsh criticism but if one posts pictures of one's room, then presumably the sole purpose of that can be for comments from others? Unless we're just supposed to ooh and aah at expensive speakers

In Britain we leave a glass of whisky and a carrot on the mantelpiece. One for Santa and one for Rudolph It's up to them to decide which is which...
post #2392 of 2742
In Britain we leave a glass of whisky and a carrot on the mantelpiece. One for Santa and one for Rudolph It's up to them to decide which is which...[/quote]
:-) :-) ;-)
post #2393 of 2742
Yes beautiful speakers but I agree it's a mess as far as acoustics is concerned. I couldn't live with it in that setup. I've thought of getting some BG planars but what would I do for a center? In his case I would just go for a phantom center. I cannot judge the response of the subs in their location, maybe they do work where they are.
post #2394 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Hi SoM...

I commented similarly on the centre speaker being on the floor and also on room treatments, but it fell on deaf ears I am afraid. In fact, the response was rather snippy. Personally, I think the system shown in the picture is a mess. I know the speakers must cost a fortune, but you can put the best speakers in the world in a poor room and they will sound bad. The subs look as if they have been placed for aesthetic considerations rather than acoustic ones. And the integration between those huge L&R speakers and the centre has to be appalling - imagine a side to side pan for example. I know this may sound like harsh criticism but if one posts pictures of one's room, then presumably the sole purpose of that can be for comments from others? Unless we're just supposed to ooh and aah at expensive speakers

Keith,

I have to agree with your thoughts. I mean no offense to Chris and his fine gear but I'm wondering why one would place a center speaker where it is. I'm also wondering where the speaker cable for the center speaker is. Maybe the speakers and subs will be moved to better locations to maximize their performance. I think much smaller speakers could have been used in a room of that size and layout. It is very possible that smaller speakers would sound just as good if not better than those huge speakers. Speakers that would match up with the center speaker certainly would help as well.

It kind of reminds me of the movie The Italian Job where "Napster" wanted a sound system to blow womens clothes off. Well this system looks like it will do that with ease although I'm not sure how it will sound overall.

Bill
post #2395 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Yes beautiful speakers but I agree it's a mess as far as acoustics is concerned. I couldn't live with it in that setup. I've thought of getting some BG planars but what would I do for a center? In his case I would just go for a phantom center. I cannot judge the response of the subs in their location, maybe they do work where they are.

Yes, that's the problem with huge speakers like that, or highly specialised types - what do you do in the centre? They make a good stereo setup though. Yes, the subs may work there but it's a coincidence if the aesthetically most pleasing place is also the best sonically. Could be though.
post #2396 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Keith,

I have to agree with your thoughts. I mean no offense to Chris and his fine gear

Hi Bill - oh for sure - I certainly mean no offence either - but just take the view that if people post pictures of their setups (other than for troubleshooting) then presumably it is so others can comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

but I'm wondering why one would place a center speaker where it is.

Me too. No speaker is going to work properly when stuck on the floor like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I'm also wondering where the speaker cable for the center speaker is.

I hadn't spotted that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Maybe the speakers and subs will be moved to better locations to maximize their performance.

I would hope so. Still a problem with the huge disparity between the L&R and any sort of normal centre speaker though. Can't see how that one can be resolved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I think much smaller speakers could have been used in a room of that size and layout. It is very possible that smaller speakers would sound just as good if not better than those huge speakers.

I agree. This is one of my own problems - my room is too small for really big speakers and the room is now the main limitation on my system and its SQ. I can afford much more expensive speakers, but I question whether they would perform any better than my current ones as there is simply so little space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Speakers that would match up with the center speaker certainly would help as well.

I'm a firm believer in an identical set of three across the front if possible, and if not then three from the same manufacturer, designed to work together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

It kind of reminds me of the movie The Italian Job where "Napster" wanted a sound system to blow womens clothes off. Well this system looks like it will do that with ease although I'm not sure how it will sound overall.

LOL - yes, I remember that scene well. "A NAD T770 digital decoder with 70-watt amps and Burr-Brown DACs..." He might have been more adventurous wrt to the watts! But hey, if it blows women's clothes off, who are we to pick fault
post #2397 of 2742
Just a note: " I actually was not trying to show off speakers but the hidden pre-pro, amps, and other gear. Also noting the clean install as there was no drywall work needed "

There is no question this room is too small, a 25FT by 50FT room would probably be about right I would guess for the Swan 2.3B .

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Hi SoM...

I commented similarly on the centre speaker being on the floor and also on room treatments, but it fell on deaf ears I am afraid. In fact, the response was rather snippy.

I did quote the below, I did not think I was being snippy..... VVV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

As picture show of this setup, the centre speaker is still kinda just there. That is still undecided.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Me too. No speaker is going to work properly when stuck on the floor like that.

I basically meant that is not where the centre is staying, still deciding on the centre speaker for that matter. There is NO WAY the centre is staying there. Not just because all of you have noted what you have, I do not know what I am doing about that yet. The KEF T301C looks nice >>> Click Here. Not saying it would work out, however ya never know for sure unless you try. ( LOL, I would have never thought Ben R. would have played the second half of the game after he twisted his ankle like and throw a touchdown pass ! )


Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Personally, I think the system shown in the picture is a mess.The subs look as if they have been placed for aesthetic considerations rather than acoustic ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Yes beautiful speakers but I agree it's a mess as far as acoustics is concerned.

I will not deny that, however since my theater room is not even started I would rather use these for now as is ..... You have to understand there are speakers everywhere over here and they get moved around all the time In the end this in not the only area for speakers, there are many set ups like this around in different rooms.... If this was a permanent setup I would see all of your points, its not. I actually was not trying to show off speakers but the hidden pre-pro, amps, and other gear. Also noting the clean install as there was no drywall work needed . We have the Swan 2.5F here, Swan F2.2F, Swan M6F, and more here....... Woth all of these are on hand, I will let you know what stays in that exact room, as no matter what, I will need some type of speakers in this room.

I would also like to invite everyone over for a Swan party if you like and we can all nitpick my system first hand
post #2398 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Woth all of these are on hand, I will let you know what stays in that exact room, as no matter what, I will need some type of speakers in this room.

I would also like to invite everyone over for a Swan party if you like and we can all nitpick my system first hand

Thanks for an agreeable and civilised response. It wasn't clear to me originally (my fault probably) that the setup you showed was 'experimental'. You have some great options by the sound of it and I wish you well in tailoring them, and your room, in the pursuit of a great HT experience.
post #2399 of 2742
I had no intention to "nit pick." They are beautiful speakers, apart from the center. People neglect the center way to often.
post #2400 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

I had no intention to "nit pick." They are beautiful speakers, apart from the center. People neglect the center way to often.

That is what makes those big speakers totally impractical in a HT setup though - the impossibility of matching them with a centre speaker of equivalent performance. I agree with you - the centre speaker is the most important from a HT perspective. In Chris's experimental layout, the L&R are too 'important' and too dominant.

You've been quiet lately - everything OK?
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