Onkyo SC5508 Surround processor [No Price Talk] - Page 85

Bingo! Thanks Keith.

You're welcome, Peter. Great to see the FAQ 'in action'.

Might say, great to see the FAQ BAQ in action!

This is for my grand experiment. I have Paradigm Reference Studio 40's v.4. I have a used pair of Signature Be tweeters arriving today. Against all advice, I will be trying the Sig tweets in my Studios and see what we get. I've read a couple of internet reports from people who have tried similar and they liked the results. They crossover at the same point though the slopes are different. Level matching between the drivers is another potential issue, though Audyssey should help there to some degree. We'll see. Frankenspeakers!

Greetings,

FYI there is a new firwmare update dated 03/28/12 for the 5508. It is up on Onkyo's website and can be found HERE

I installed it via the network this morning. It's good to see that they are still supporting it.

Regards,

Thanks, Ralph. Have you listened to DTS content for a difference? It was posted on the 80.2 thread that that's what this addressed.

Greetings,

Just briefly Jeff to ensure that afterward everything played back correctly. If I had to guess this update probably addressed a specific title (s). I wasn't having any problems with DTS-HD MA playback and I listen to quite a few. Either way at least the problem for whichever affected titles has been addressed.

Regards,

I rip CD's with EAC, dBPA or JRMC.
I transfer on USB keys to be played on my PR-SC5508.
dBPA give the best ripping, followed closely by JRMC and not so good EAC the last.
When played through FRONT or REAR USB input of PR-SC5508, I get a loud noise (« digital noise ») lasting about half a second at the END of each WAV file ripped with dBPA and JRMC.
Ripping done with EAC has no noise at the end !!!!!!
If I play the WAV file through Musical Fidelity M1 CliC front USB in, OPPO95 front USB in or directly from the computer I have NO noise at all.
I also have in my secondary room an « old » Onkyo TX-NR9006 and I have No noise at all when playing the WAV files through the USB front in.
Could somebody experiment to see if the same happens on another PR-SC5508 ?
I have the last firmware installed.
My concern Is to determine if this is a bug or a breadown.

Check your manual for compatible formats and bit depth/sampling rates. You may be feeding it something not compatible.

Jeff

The music is standard WAV file (44.1/16) and plays very well.
The only problem is that loud noise at the end of the ripping (2 or 3 sec after the music ends)

My 5508 has been doing something strange lately. There is almost no bass anywhere. I've done Audyssey XT32 with the supplied microphone, and also with my Audyssey PRO kit. The PRO measurement page (and confirmed with REW) show linear-ish response down to almost 10Hz, but playing music and movies can best be described as 'anemic'. I've had it for a good while and it played very well before with lots of deep and tight bass. All my amps and speakers are confirmed working with other processor. I've tried a reset, but that doesn't wipe the unit, it just resets every setting back to defaults. It does now wipe the calibration, and level trims and distances are still intact.
Is there any way to do a proper reset of this unit?
Is there any setting that would make pretty much all the low bass disappear? The subs are active during play, they just feel highpassfiltered.

What I've tried so far:
Processor reset. This did not help.
Confirmed all speakers are workign well with another preamp.
Confirmed the problem exist in both sub and LCR channels by hooking the subwoofers up to the front speaker outputs, setting the processor to fullrange with subs off.

As measured by REW, it looks like it used to before, but plays like a bookshelf speaker. I have powerful low-tuned subwoofers and large dual 15" and horn LCR speakers. The system is plenty capabable. The measurement is with both subs and both front speakers, no Audyssey, hence the combfiltering.

Sorry to hear of this unusual problem. 'Fraid I can't shed any useful light on it, but the reset procedure below should set the unit back to factory defaults - ie it should wipe everything including the level and trim distances.

 

RESET Onkyo to Factory

To reset the AV receiver to its factory defaults, turn it on and, while holding down the [VCR/DVR] button on the unit, press the [ON/STANDBY] button on the unit. "Clear" will appear on the display and the AV receiver will enter Standby mode. On turn on, it will have been reset to the factory defaults.

 

Is that the procedure you were using?  It is important to press the relevant buttons on the unit itself not on the remote control. Prior to doing the reset, it might be useful to unplug the unit from the wall for 5 minutes and then do the reset procedure.

 

It is most odd that the system measures well but sounds so different to the measurements. How can that be?  I hope someone can shed some light on it for you. Good luck.

That's the procedure I'm using. I get the 'Clear' in the display and the unit switches off. Turning it back on and all option settings are back to their default values, along with input assignments and such. But any calibration setting is still intact, as well as Audyssey calibration.

It is indeed a very weird issue, and I am an experienced AV-onstaller too. I thought I'd seen most strange issues before, but apparently not.

I will continue my hunt for the illusive setting that messes me up. One thing I've yet to try is hooking my subs up to one of the channels that have never been calibrated and then do a 'all ch stereo' to see if there's bass there. In that case something in the calibration is sticking and the unit needs a PROPER reset somehow.

Are you thinking, as I am now, that when you perform a new calibration it is not overwriting the old calibration? Can you verify that in some way - maybe by running a quick 3 position calibration with the sub or main speakers moved to a different location so that you can verify if the distance setting actually changes? If the calibration is indeed 'sticking' then it may be something that requires the unit to be returned for service. I hope not, but cannot think of a reason why the settings are not properly reset when you use the correct reset procedure.

 

However, this might all be a red herring - the real issue is 'what happened to the bass?'. I can't understand how it can measure OK but sound so different. When you do the measurements, you presumably turn Audyssey off - do you still have this lack of bass without Audyssey engaged when listening to normal sources? If the bass is lacking even with Audyssey turned off, does the calibration reset really matter?

 

I am just thinking out loud really. When the USA wakes up in an hour or two, hopefully some of the other guys on here can give some ideas that might lead to a solution. Meanwhile I share your frustration.

I've had the same thoughts, and tried several calibrations and observed that they seem correct with regards to trims and distances, so yeah, it might be a red herring.

The lack of bass still exist without Audyssey running, so it's definetly a setup issue. I'll measure the line output from my processor with no processing applied just to see. Could be a hardware fault with my outputs, but it's weird that it should affect all of them equally.

I have had comments on other forums to the effect: "Dude, with measurements like that it's no wonder you're lacking bass, it's totally linear!". This is the Audyssey targetcurve, and it's why they invented DynamicEQ. Also, it's the curve I've had for years, and it never sounded anemic. I did a typical "woofer moves air" video a while back while playing some loud and very low bass, and if I try the same now thre's barely a rustle, so SOMETHING is up!

I will investigate further.

Very weird. Measuring the line output will be useful though.

 

 

 

Yeah - they don't understand what the Audyssey target curve is it seems - and how DEQ works. The "woofer moves air" test is totally conclusive really - if the woofer is causing barely a rustle, no matter what anyone says, there is something wrong for sure.

 

Sorry I can think of anything positive to suggest. I will follow the progress of your search for a solution with interest. Never heard of anything like this before.

Guys - I'm hoping you can help me here. I bought the 5508 and I have a separate Headphone Amp. I wanted to know which output on the back of the 5508 I should use? Which is the best...? Thanks!

Mike

There is no best. The 5508 has several shortcomings in reference to monitoring: 1 - there is no analog output on the tape outputs, zone 2 or 3 outputs if a digital source is selected (optical or coaxial S/PDIF). 2 - there is no 2 channel analog monitor output. 3 - there is no 2 channel digital monitor output (optical or coaxial S/PDIF). There is no excuse for this but we are stuck with what is available. For reference my Outlaw Model 970 had all the above.

So you may as well use the front panel headphone output either direct to your headphones or to your headphone amp.

Wendell - I don't think that will matter. I called Onkyo and they confirmed what you said, however, they said as long as my source is analog (Phono, DAC output or analog out from my Oppo 95), I should be fine using the Pre Out (labeled: front/high/wide) into my Headphone Amp.

Do you concur?

I should have added that my purpose for using headphones (HD800's) and the headphone amp is only for two channel audio (not movie watching).

I will be able to test this later next week when my headphone amp arrives.

I will admit, the Onkyo is a great little device, wonderful in many ways (especially for Home Theater), but sonically, it is the weakest link in my system. I might be adding a two channel tube preamp and using the tube preamps HT Bypass feature in the near future.

Mike

No. The part about analog being switched is correct. The front/high/wide is a derivative of other channels with the level being controlled by the master volume control. I would use the tape or VCR OUTPUT to feed my headphone amp.


The Onkyo 5508 has very low distortion, flat, wide frequency response and very low noise therefore it should pass through signals virtually unchanged. If you click the “Work and Home Theater Stuff” in my signature line you will see me sitting in front of a Harrison Series 10 (with 5.1 monitoring) audio mixing desk. I have measured much greater signal aberrations in a single audio transformer (from a highly respected professional audio manufacturer) than the entire signal path through the Harrison audio console.

Wendell,

Thank you for your help. So, from what you are saying, according to your measurements, the 5508 is actually quite good and is "neutral" in its approach to processing audio as a preamp? I'm curious, have you run any tests with the 5508 in "Direct" or Pure Audio pass through modes? I am currently letting the Oppo 95 handle all processing for movies and leaving the Onkyo 5508 on "Direct". It seems to achieve the best results. Not sure that is the ultimate configuration, but its what I have found. Thoughts?

With respect to two channel audio (95% of the time) - I have my TT (Rega RP3) running through the 5508 (with "Direct" selected) and my DAC's (with my Mac Mini, Squeezebox, etc. as sources) are all once again running through directly too.

I've always wondered whether the Direct is truly a passthrough adding zero coloration, noise, etc. Have you run any tests?

To my ears, the Balanced connection sounds a pinch better than the RCA connection - but that could just have something to do with cable quality!

Thanks for the tip on the headphone amp. Greatly appreciated.

Mike

No need for me to test, others have already done so, a good one here. I am retired and no longer have access to the Audio Precision, Tektronix and HP test gear. I do have several pieces of test equipment and have done some basic checks to ensure proper operation.


There should not be any difference in signal quality. The circuits should be the same except the balanced out will have an extra inverted output. The purpose for balanced circuits is CMRR. In a pro environment cable runs can be many feet.

My PR-SC885 has finally died and I'm looking for a new pre-pro. Considering the PR-SC5508 (along with the Marantz AV7005). Would appreciate PMs with and dealers I should contact for quick shipment and a good price.
Thanks.

I've got a PR-SC886 that I have no problems with, and only have 5.1 set up. Is it worth the upgrade to get a 5508? I'm thinking that going from Audyssey XT to XT32 would be my big gain. Any 886 to 5508 upgraders notice a big improvement?

You will notice the biggest improvement in music, for movies it probably depends on your set-up as the 886 is very good with that.

For me at least, the upgrade is worth it for both music and HT.
I had 885 and it was great for HT but not so great for music so I ran music through a tube-dac and in "pure" on the 885.
Now, with 5508-9, both music and HT are greatly improved. Yes, music made the greater leap, but the HT improvement is huge. Mainly (in HT): my rear speakers and subwoofer are better sounding and better integrated overall. Instead of being able to easily identify the location of the rear speakers and subwoofer, the room is filled with sound AND (while enveloped in quality sound) the sound also travels appropriately with no artificial (this speaker to that) start and end point. While the 885 sounded like a great attempt at realistic room-enveloping sound effects, the 5508-9 succeeds at this.

I had an Integra 9.8 which is the same as the 885 and the 886 was a big improvement in terms of movies. I think the leap from the 885 to the 5508 is much larger than from the 886 to the 5508 in terms of movies, for music the 9.8 and 886 were similar so the leap in music performance had a greater impact.

Thanks to everyone for the insight you have in upgrading to the 5508.

I'm probably 80% or more HT, and 20% or less music so HT is my focus. I have had other pre/pros that were more musical but lacked in surround sound. The 886 is an awesome pre/pro for movies but the upgrade bug is bitting and I'm looking for even better. Maybe I'm better off waiting until a new surround sound codex is released and get a newer pre/pro then. I've read so many people raving about XT32 that I can't help but feel I'm missing out. The eq-ing of the sub is what I'm looking to improve the most.

I'd highly recommend upgrading to the 5508 or 5509 rather than waiting. XT32's EQ'ing of Subwoofers is vastly superior to that of XT, so you will be getting exactly what you are looking for. You should hear a big difference for both movies and music.

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