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Onkyo SC5508 Surround processor [No Price Talk] - Page 15

post #421 of 2742
Do you think the 5508 would "sonically" be an upgrade to the DHC-9.9?
post #422 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrunr View Post
Do you think the 5508 would "sonically" be an upgrade to the DHC-9.9?
From what I've read, it is sonically an upgrade from the 5507/80.1. So, yes.
post #423 of 2742
Has anyone compared the internal circuitry of the 885, 886, 5507 and 5508 (and equivalent Integra models)?

Jeff
post #424 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Has anyone compared the internal circuitry of the 885, 886, 5507 and 5508 (and equivalent Integra models)?

Jeff
Jeff,

I would also be very interested in the differences between the 886 and the 5508. Maybe you could try contacting Alan (alanl715). Alan had quite a bit of information (part numbers etc.) when people were questioning whether there was a difference between the 885/886 and the 9.8/9.9. As it turned out there was no difference as many components had the same part numbers between these Onkyo and Integra units.

Bill
post #425 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Jeff,

I would also be very interested in the differences between the 886 and the 5508. Maybe you could try contacting Alan (alanl715). Alan had quite a bit of information (part numbers etc.) when people were questioning whether there was a difference between the 885/886 and the 9.8/9.9. As it turned out there was no difference as many components had the same part numbers between these Onkyo and Integra units.

Bill

I've been googling and all Onkyo/Integra says is "Burr Brown" DACs w/192KHz-24-bit. I've found a review of the 5508 on Audioholics and they list the DACs as Burr Brown PCM-1795. (For reference, the Denon flagship pre/pro uses PCM-1796 which are superior to the 1795.)

My impression is that it will not be easy to compare the four generations of units when it comes to the "important" parts inside. Still working on it though ...

Jeff
post #426 of 2742
Here's an exchange I had with Onkyo tech support:

Me: I've had my 5508 for about two months now, and I think it is better in nearly every way than the 885 it replaced. Except one. What's up with the audible relay switching? My 5508 is exposed, not in a cabinet, and the clicking is clearly audible throughout the living room; it clicks with every change in audio format. It's something I'm determined to live with, but doing so would be easier if you could provide me with a compelling engineering or product-feature decision that explains why having the relays click so loudly was deemed a good idea, rather than it just being a careless oversight.

Onkyo: There is a firmware update that quiets that down. (Their response came today.)

Unfortunately, when I ran the firmware update, the 5508 said I already have the latest version, which I installed right after I bought the unit. So, I can't imagine how bad the clicking might have been before.
post #427 of 2742
We can hope a new update is on the way.
post #428 of 2742
Are all 5508 owners reporting issues with relay clicking? Is there relay clicking when watching TV and the audio goes from DD 5.1 to DD PLIIX? I have plans to update my 886 to the 5508 in the future but the relay clicking would be an issue for me. My components are in an open rack about 6' away from where I sit so it would drive me crazy.

Bill
post #429 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Are all 5508 owners reporting issues with relay clicking? Is there relay clicking when watching TV and the audio goes from DD 5.1 to DD PLIIX? I have plans to update my 886 to the 5508 in the future but the relay clicking would be an issue for me. My components are in an open rack about 6' away from where I sit so it would drive me crazy.

Bill

AFAIK the clicking is engineered into every unit. Widely reported on the Integra 80.2 thread, as well. And yes, there is a click every time the audio changes. I was watching a heavily scratched rental DVD last week, and with each audio drop out (there were a dozen, at least) the 5508 clicked. I'm trying to be sanguine about the clicking, but that was pretty annoying.
post #430 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post
Are all 5508 owners reporting issues with relay clicking? Is there relay clicking when watching TV and the audio goes from DD 5.1 to DD PLIIX? I have plans to update my 886 to the 5508 in the future but the relay clicking would be an issue for me. My components are in an open rack about 6' away from where I sit so it would drive me crazy.

Bill
Hi Bill,

I'm in your boat, I have an 886 and I'm considering the 5508.

From following the Integra DHC-80.2 thread it is my understanding that the clicking can be minimized if the listening presets are set so as to limit switching from one listening mode to another. For example, clicking occurs most frequently when the source is cable or satellite TV where the audio format switches from 5.1 to stereo when commercials come on, and vice versa. If the presets are say DD PLIIx for 5.1 signals and Stereo for two channel signals then there will be a click as the preamplifier changes listening modes. However, if the listening mode presets for both 5.1 and Stereo signals are set to DD PLIIx then there won't be any clicking as the programming switches back and forth between commercials.

In those case where you want to listen to Stereo signals in stereo, rather than in 7.1 as per my example above, you just select stereo with the remote control.

Larry

P.S. I think you are confusing audio formats with listening modes. Source audio can't go from DD 5.1 to DD PLIIx. DD PLIIx is a surround processing listening mode that upconverts two channel or 5.1 formats.
post #431 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Are all 5508 owners reporting issues with relay clicking?
Bill

From every response I have seen on these ..yes
And the same applies to the 3007/3008 and 5007/5008 receivers as well...so I assume that what ever has all the "clickety-clack" going on ..it must be common among all these units

on another note A4L has refurb 5508s available now as well


Warren
post #432 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkster27 View Post

AFAIK the clicking is engineered into every unit. Widely reported on the Integra 80.2 thread, as well. And yes, there is a click every time the audio changes. I was watching a heavily scratched rental DVD last week, and with each audio drop out (there were a dozen, at least) the 5508 clicked. I'm trying to be sanguine about the clicking, but that was pretty annoying.

This is widely reported in the Onkyo 3007/3008...5007/5008 receiver threads as well

In fact I was going to replace an 875 receiver with a 3007 a few months ago just for the networking aspect...when Magnolia Home theater was having their blow out sale when they were "divorcing "Onkyo products

anyway ..I was talked out of it because someone who had an 875 ..before..as well...said the clicking drove him crazy and he thought Onkyo had downgraded the amp section in the 3007...compared to the earlier units


Warren
post #433 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

From what I've read, it is sonically an upgrade from the 5507/80.1. So, yes.

Based on what you have said before I thought you said you had demoed these and used that session(s) to make commentary about improved sound quality?

By the way......the comment comparing the 5008s DAC's with the Denon preamp

I am almost certain no one is comparing those two pieces......could you expect a $2200 piece to be the sonic equivalent to one that is $7500...and I am even taking into consideration that neither is selling for retail...I know for a fact the Onkyo is not

That comparison is not real world

I guess..I am old school in comparing audio components...the Denon piece weighs twice as much...perhaps a few more things going on than its better DAC's you mentioned
I see that Denon has made available upgrades to some older units..their flagship preamp being one

*Audyssey MultEQ XT32 (including Audyssey Pro)
*Audyssey DSX Surround Processing
*Dolby PLIIz Surround Processing
*3D Video Pass-through via HDMI


To me a buyer in the Onkyo 5508 market might be looking at the Marantz piece..I would think...How does the 5508 compare to the new Marantz 7005?

Nothing else in this class of component..in my mind
Those are the two choices...and yes I know there is that new Emotiva coming out as well


Warren
post #434 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkster27 View Post

AFAIK the clicking is engineered into every unit. Widely reported on the Integra 80.2 thread, as well. And yes, there is a click every time the audio changes. I was watching a heavily scratched rental DVD last week, and with each audio drop out (there were a dozen, at least) the 5508 clicked. I'm trying to be sanguine about the clicking, but that was pretty annoying.

I hope that the new firmware will solve also the issue that the 5508 moves to analog mode every time there is no signal (for example, while the movie is on pause mode) and then back to digital mode when input signal is coming...

I think it could be solved by firmware since this is a software issue and they can put a command that tell the 5508 to remain at digital mode all the time.
post #435 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRP-600M View Post

I hope that the new firmware will solve also the issue that the 5508 moves to analog mode every time there is no signal (for example, while the movie is on pause mode) and then back to digital mode when input signal is coming...

I think it could be solved by firmware since this is a software issue and they can put a command that tell the 5508 to remain at digital mode all the time.

can that be updated over the network?..ie...so the unit doesn't have to be taken a to a service center


Something tells me the issue has not been solved yet..or I should say to the owner's satisfaction ..of the receivers anyway


Warren
post #436 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

can that be updated over the network?..ie...so the unit doesn't have to be taken a to a service center


Something tells me the issue has not been solved yet..or I should say to the owner's satisfaction ..of the receivers anyway

Updates can be done by internet/USB, but it seems unlikely that much will be done about relay clicking in current gear. The relays are a design decision to mute undesirable (loud, spikey) distortion when switching audio. Unless Onkyo says otherwise I would not expect a substantial improvement by a software update, if any.
post #437 of 2742
[quote=LarryChanin;19951755]Hi Bill,

Quote:


I'm in your boat, I have an 886 and I'm considering the 5508.

Hey Larry,

Would the relay clicking issue cause you to reconsider buying the 5508?

Quote:


From following the Integra DHC-80.2 thread it is my understanding that the clicking can be minimized if the listening presets are set so as to limit switching from one listening mode to another. For example, clicking occurs most frequently when the source is cable or satellite TV where the audio format switches from 5.1 to stereo when commercials come on, and vice versa. If the presets are say DD PLIIx for 5.1 signals and Stereo for two channel signals then there will be a click as the preamplifier changes listening modes. However, if the listening mode presets for both 5.1 and Stereo signals are set to DD PLIIx then there won't be any clicking as the programming switches back and forth between commercials.

In those case where you want to listen to Stereo signals in stereo, rather than in 7.1 as per my example above, you just select stereo with the remote control.

I have posted several times in I believe the 80.2 and this thread asking if 80.2/5508 owners have tried setting all audio formats that would be used for TV to DD PLIIx. I have not seen any responses but these threads move quickly so I might have missed any responses.

Quote:


P.S. I think you are confusing audio formats with listening modes. Source audio can't go from DD 5.1 to DD PLIIx. DD PLIIx is a surround processing listening mode that upconverts two channel or 5.1 formats.

What I meant was when watching TV (cable or SAT) when the audio signal goes from digital (DD 5.1) to an analog signal (2.0) that is set to DD PLIIx do 80.2/5508 owners still experience relay clicking.

Bill
post #438 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

Updates can be done by internet/USB, but it seems unlikely that much will be done about relay clicking in current gear. The relays are a design decision to mute undesirable (loud, spikey) distortion when switching audio. Unless Onkyo says otherwise I would not expect a substantial improvement by a software update, if any.

This jives with what I have seen in the Onkyo receivers forums...in fact this was one of two the reasons I was "talked" out of the 3007 when Magnolia was clearing them out at below $700 range...though it seems that none of the Magnolia guys like Onkyo either for some reason
On another note..seems that having Uverse......I don't....seems to make the issue even worse


Warren
post #439 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

This jives with what I have seen in the Onkyo receivers forums...in fact this was one of two the reasons I was "talked" out of the 3007 when Magnolia was clearing them out at below $700 range...though it seems that none of the Magnolia guys like Onkyo either for some reason

Warren

Let me hazard a guess: They are available elsewhere for less money. They hate price competition.

- Rich
post #440 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

This jives with what I have seen in the Onkyo receivers forums...in fact this was one of two the reasons I was "talked" out of the 3007 when Magnolia was clearing them out at below $700 range...though it seems that none of the Magnolia guys like Onkyo either for some reason
On another note..seems that having Uverse......I don't....seems to make the issue even worse

The Onkyo's are great value in many ways, so I would not stare blindly at one or two weaker parts. Other receivers have limitations and issues as well.
post #441 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post

Larry,

I knew there had to be a way to get the video off. I read someone say on an old model it was aux and power. I went through all the power and input and then moved to input an the return button.

This shuts off all Onkyo video processing until you turn it on manually. So it's a workaround that will last until you decide to re-enable the video processing.

Everything works as if the Onkyo was not in the chain. Each input displays on my RS40 exactly as I have it set from the source. I tested it for about 20 min turning it off, on. Switching inputs, switching between 3D and 2D. Etc. No issues.

Another user named Dave read my post and it worked for him also. I was not going to live with the problem for long and glad I don't have too.

kaotikr1,

I'm really glad I found your post on how to turn the video off on the 5508. I was having a lot of handshaking problems with my new Onkyo/JVC X3 setup, especially during the first five to ten minutes of warmup. Thereafter, the video would cutout unpredictably when switching between satellite and Xbox. But, your solution did the trick!

I have noticed, however, that this also turns off the OSD display of Volume, Source Info, etc. Did you also experience this unwanted side-effect?

Many thanks.
post #442 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

The Onkyo's are great value in many ways, so I would not stare blindly at one or two weaker parts. Other receivers have limitations and issues as well.

that sword seems to cut both ways...I agree on the value
Actually I much more impressed with the 875 receiver than the 885 preamp...for the function that it does
Having owned several brands in the past...these have the most issues...and I am throwing in there some poor customer service as well

that being said they are hundreds less than a comparable Yamha or Denon( new or used)

So..you have to decide if the clicking etc is worth the $$

Reliability wise I have had more issues with the Onkyos...in fact these are the only receivers I have ever had to send in for service

The preamp has been problem free


Warren
post #443 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Let me hazard a guess: They are available elsewhere for less money. They hate price competition.

- Rich

I think there is more to it than that. BB has enough power and clout to buy more( and likely for a better price) than anyone else and sell accordingly if they wanted to
I think all the internet low prices and Walmart having the line as well is a big coffin nail

Based on the weekend newegg prices...its likely hard to make any money on these for a brick and mortar operation

Maybe that why the Integra dealers are the one that sell in the store fronts

Frankly...based on their pricing model...I wonder why Magnolia even chose to carry the higher end Onkyo models....seems they would have carried Integra instead


Warren
post #444 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Hey Larry,

Would the relay clicking issue cause you to reconsider buying the 5508?

Hi Bill,

Yes, the relay clicking issue has given me pause when considering the 5508, but based on Fitz's observations (quoted below) there are mitigating factors for my situation and listening habits. I don't have DirecTV, I have a TiVo DVR, I mostly listening to Blu-ray and HD DVD movies, and movies on Verizon FiOS. I rarely listen to programming with commercials and rarely fast-forward my recorded movies.

Also I'm in no hurry to make this upgrade, but if I were to find a very attractive price down the road I might make a purchase. You may laugh, but my biggest deterrent in buying this preamplifier is that it does not permit both height AND wide DSX speakers at the same time. I may never get around to installing height speakers, but if I spend the money for an upgrade I would like to know I have the option of adding heights when I have the inclination.

Quote:


I have posted several times in I believe the 80.2 and this thread asking if 80.2/5508 owners have tried setting all audio formats that would be used for TV to DD PLIIx. I have not seen any responses but these threads move quickly so I might have missed any responses.



What I meant was when watching TV (cable or SAT) when the audio signal goes from digital (DD 5.1) to an analog signal (2.0) that is set to DD PLIIx do 80.2/5508 owners still experience relay clicking.

Bill

Here are a couple of postings that I found very helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

Sorry to be such a curmudgeon. Yes, I do not have Direct TV, and it seems to be a major source of the clicking issues. I have none with my Comcast cable service. The problem is that we do not know exactly how the cable or satellite service is sending out their signal, how that varies with program material - commercials, etc. - and how that maps to the Integra's Listening Mode Presets.

In any case, here is what has been successful for me in curing the clicks via Comcast. We have 6 Input Sources on the setup menu for the Listening Mode Presets for CBL/SAT - (1.)Analog/PCM, (2.) Mono/MPX Source, (3.) 2Ch Source, (4.) DolbyD/D Plus/True HD, (5.) DTS/ES/HD, and (6.) Other Multich Source.

For CBL/SAT, I was able to set all of these Input Sources to Dolby PL2x, except #2 Mono/MPX. If you prefer something other than Dolby PL2X, that might work just as well. But, note that the Mono/MPX Source Type cannot be set to a Mch listening mode that is consistent with all the others. Also, note that for other inputs, like Blu-ray, I use a completely different pattern of Listening Mode Presets appropriate to that input.

Apparently, Comcast transmits nothing in mono on hi def channels, so the listening mode never changes from Dolby PL 2X and there are no clicks, even during a stereo commercial. If I were to change the preset for the 2ch Source type to anything other than Dolby PL2X, I will get clicking. Typically, this involves commercials, which often appear to be 2 Ch vs. normal program material which is in one of the Mch source formats - I do not know which, but it does not matter.

So, if your Listening Mode Presets are set up similar to mine, a possible theory as to why Direct TV is affected might be that pesky Input Source #2 - Mono/MPX. Perhaps Direct TV transmits commercials in mono rather than stereo, unlike Comcast. That's the best theory I can come up with to explain why Direct TV or other services might be different from my experience with Comcast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

I think I was pretty clear in my attempt to summarize the situation. No, it does not click in the middle of a movie, unless there is a disc defect that causes a dropout. In other words, the 80.2 does not click randomly. It only clicks when triggered by specific events.

So, far, the major trigger events are dropouts in Direct TV, such as the switch from Mch program to commercial and back or changing channels. With other cable services, such as Comcast, it does not click at all in these circumstances if the Listening Mode Presets are set up consistently. As I have said previously I can watch TV for hours and hours with no clicks whatsoever on commercials, station breaks, or on changing channels. The issue with Direct TV is a technical one involving dropouts on their end as sound modes change triggering the click in the Integra. This is, I believe, far and away the major complaint about the clicking and understandably so.

There may be a single initial click as a new listening mode is engaged. This happens, for example, once when a Blu-ray switches from lower rez sound in the startup menu, previews, etc. to the main feature in hi rez lossless audio. But, this happens once and is hardly a major issue.

More significant, perhaps, to some on a hi rez audio Blu-ray feature is that every time you push the chapter skip key, it clicks. If you do this a lot to get to a specific chapter, there will be a lot of clicking.

There may also be a click for each button push if you scroll through listening modes manually on the remote. But, that's about it.

So, what I have been trying to do is to pin this down accurately. Those not on Direct TV, like me, do not seem to have major complaints about clicking. It's pretty rare and isolated. The notion that the 80.2 clicks "all the time" is just not true, except on the transition to/from commercials, etc. on Direct TV or possibly other less prominent program providers or cable carriers.


So based on Fitz's remarks I would say that, depending on your cable/satellite TV provider, a DD PLIIx preset can eliminate clicking on 5.1 to 2.0 transitions.

Larry
post #445 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi Bill,

Yes, the relay clicking issue has given me pause when considering the 5508, but based on Fitz's observations (quoted below) there are mitigating factors for my situation and listening habits. I don't have DirecTV, I have a TiVo DVR, I mostly listening to Blu-ray and HD DVD movies, and movies on Verizon FiOS. I rarely listen to programming with commercials and rarely fast-forward my recorded movies.

Also I'm in no hurry to make this upgrade, but if I were to find a very attractive price down the road I might make a purchase. You may laugh, but my biggest deterrent in buying this preamplifier is that it does not permit both height AND wide DSX speakers at the same time. I may never get around to installing height speakers, but if I spend the money for an upgrade I would like to know I have the option of adding heights when I have the inclination.

Here are a couple of postings that I found very helpful.

So based on Fitz's remarks I would say that, depending on your cable/satellite TV provider, a DD PLIIx preset can eliminate clicking on 5.1 to 2.0 transitions.

Larry

Larry,

Thanks for posting Fitz's thoughts! I have TWC and not DirecTV so I might be fine when and if I upgrade to the 5508. If I see any "special deals" I will let you know after I contact one other member that turned me onto shoponkyo.

Bill
post #446 of 2742
I've decided to return mine. While I like the difference in music, I don't like the remote, clicking or "highs". I don't utilize the video portion enough. So, in this case the positives do not out weigh the negatives for me. I think the 885 is a better solution for me. I think the 5508 is a step up but not a big enough one to justify the price in my eyes and ears.
post #447 of 2742
Well, Mine should be here thursday so I am pretty excited to get it set-up and running very quickly. I hope there is a sonic upgrade from the integra 9.9 to this!
post #448 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkpro View Post

I've decided to return mine. While I like the difference in music, I don't like the remote, clicking or "highs". I don't utilize the video portion enough. So, in this case the positives do not out weigh the negatives for me. I think the 885 is a better solution for me. I think the 5508 is a step up but not a big enough one to justify the price in my eyes and ears.

Do you guys change formats that often that the clicks become a nuisance? I have a click or two as the film starts, and then nothing.... I haven't even noticed clicks, really.
post #449 of 2742
The clicks were annoying but not a deal breaker. I just didn't think it was enough of an improvement to stay. Musically, though, it was a big upgrade in my opinion. However, I don't just sit and listen to music, it's on in the background. I also don't utilize the video portion as I watch mostly Blu-ray and have an outboard video processor. I also miss all the direct access that the old remote had.
I wouldn't discourage anyone from buying it. If one doesn't have an existing preamp this is a great piece.
post #450 of 2742
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkpro View Post

The clicks were annoying but not a deal breaker. I just didn't think it was enough of an improvement to stay. Musically, though, it was a big upgrade in my opinion. However, I don't just sit and listen to music, it's on in the background. I also don't utilize the video portion as I watch mostly Blu-ray and have an outboard video processor. I also miss all the direct access that the old remote had.
I wouldn't discourage anyone from buying it. If one doesn't have an existing preamp this is a great piece.

Good to hear that musically it was a big upgrade....that is my main dislike my 885

I am still not certain its enough for me to do the upgrade..I passed on a deal last week where me and the dealer were $50 apart after some negociation

I do its on its own island though...there is no competition except for maybe the Marantz 7005...and I guess o fcourse to some extent its Integra brother


Warren
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