Originally Posted by Venomous
It's funny to see you bringing up the Vienna's... I too was interested in Vienna's, mainly the Beethovens and realized the 4 ohm load was going to be a killer for most systems. I had no idea what direction I was going to go for my avr either so although they have a 91 db efficiency rating,the 4 ohm old makes them very difficult to drive without external amps. I took this into consideration and moved my interest to 8 ohm speakers.
In regards to the 4311, overload protection was probably adjusted and set to conservative. I heard the 4310 was buggy which is why the 4311 came out with fixes, but many avr's have issues driving 4 phm loads, so I cannot completely blame Denon here. Weight has nothing to do with it here. If I was in the amp business, I think I would add 30 pounds of dense iron to my chassis to trick guys like you into buying my product
I learned about ohm loads long ago and it was always said, if you want to drive difficult speakers, you best have the wallet to supply a proper amp to drive them, regardless of your pre/pro.
Today, a 2 channel amp and a nice pre to drive such speakers isn't even considered expensive anymore
I have several Vienna acoustics speakers.. a pair of.Mozarts...4 Haydns and a Theatro center
Though I use none of them...but thats another story...
My Pioneer elite VSX47tx( 64lbs) drove them flawlessly..the Onkyo 875( 54lbs) not far behind//The Denon 4310 clipped and turned off
I have seen any great bench test numbers( all channels driven) on the 4311 either
Curiously all the receivers, I was testing, have ratings that are within 10 watts of each other
My ears told me quite a different story..and clearly the Denon clipping and shutting off confirmed what I thought
Your amp theory is flawed...find any AVR or amp that will run say 125( or more) with 5 channels(or more) driven at the same time..
Compare the weights....and see how they differ
BTW I dont mean mean manufacturers specs...cause those are typically BS anyway....I am talking bench tests for a trusted publication
Separate amps were never expensive...the flapship brands like Krell and McIntosh etc were always expensive..and still are
But there have been brands like Rotel , Harmon Kardon and Denon that have made many reasonably priced separate amps over the years that are still better than most anything you can find in an AVR today
especially since the manufacturers have gotten out of the flagship AVR business( excluding Denon with the 5308)
I actually replaced the Onkyo 875 with the A3000
The A3000 sounds better..more detailed. However the Onkyo is definitely the more beefy powerful unit. I am running bookshelf speakers( Celestion) in that room so I dont need the brute force
If I was running towers, or a some 4ohm speakers...I would switch back to the Onkyo