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"Official" Yamaha RX-A1000/RX-A2000/RX-A3000 thread - Page 4

post #91 of 8768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy Tia View Post

HDMI -> DVI is the exact same thing as HDMI straight, only minus audio (technically DVI connectors can pass audio, it's just that not one soul out there implements it). The lack of color changing options is because you're using a digital signal input - unlike NTSC analog, there is no need to adjust for color variances (Never The Same Color ring a bell?) - the data is simply all there or not there.

DVI does not neccessarily adhere to the HDCP protocol which HDMI devices require. As a result DVI devices often present problems for HDMI devices. Component video would be the best solution and can pass the same resolution as the DVI is outputting (1080i or 720p). Perhaps the OP's issue was that when component video was connected the channel was likely not broadcast in HD. I would personally recommend not making DVI to HDMI connections as it introduces problems for NO real gain in quality over component IMHO.

Mark
post #92 of 8768
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSmith View Post

DVI does not neccessarily adhere to the HDCP protocol which HDMI devices require. As a result DVI devices often present problems for HDMI devices. Component video would be the best solution and can pass the same resolution as the DVI is outputting (1080i or 720p). Perhaps the OP's issue was that when component video was connected the channel was likely not broadcast in HD. I would personally recommend not making DVI to HDMI connections as it introduces problems for NO real gain in quality over component IMHO.

Mark

Assuming the monitor was made in 2006 or later, any DVI output is mandated to be HDCP compliant. Prior to 2004, however, there were zero HDCP compliant DVI monitors out there.

That aside, if he's using a STB that has DVI output, the DVI portion is still required to have HDCP compliance, though the chipset in use may be the problematic factor (Silicon Image chipsets generally fare better than custom fabs). With computer video cards, until recently, there was no real option - DVI->HDMI was it. That's what I use to my TV. No issues there, but I have a modern (relatively) Radeon HD3870 and a Samsung TV.

The issue isn't limited to DVI to HDMI connections. Straight HDMI connections also have the exact same issues between components much of the time, and the density of the cable can be a factor as well. 28/30 AWG HDMI cable is good for a tops of about 3 feet, then it tends to run into problems with random lines showing up in the video (sparkles also). I strongly suggest using a 22 or 24 AWG HDMI cable, of which monoprice.com has a very good selection for not a lot of money. Just make sure you use your CC company's secure online numbers with them - many, including myself, already got burned with a breach of security data leak from them. The only real downside to the cables from monoprice.com is the net jacket they use. It's so stiff that it has less flexibility than a brand new garden hose.

The one thing I'd kill for is a locking HDMI connector so they couldn't come loose for any reason.
post #93 of 8768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy Tia View Post

HDMI -> DVI is the exact same thing as HDMI straight, only minus audio ...
Technology's fun, isn't it? :P

Thanks Squishy. Helpful AND funny. I guessed that was the case but was never curious enough to look it up.
post #94 of 8768
The manual for the A3000 (pg 165) seems to suggest its able to do true bi-amping (ie. filtering the two signal paths *before* amplification) - have Yamaha amps been doing this for a while, and if so does anyone have a sense if they are doing this correctly or not, and what the filter frequencies are?
post #95 of 8768
Thread Starter 
If the A3000 does allow for active biamping, it would be the first Yamaha I have heard of with that feature.
post #96 of 8768
Quote:
Originally Posted by kromkamp View Post

The manual for the A3000 (pg 165) seems to suggest its able to do true bi-amping (ie. filtering the two signal paths *before* amplification) - have Yamaha amps been doing this for a while, and if so does anyone have a sense if they are doing this correctly or not, and what the filter frequencies are?

Sorry, but I fail to see where it would explicitely suggest that there would be any active filtering from the amp :

post #97 of 8768
Will it be possible to set the upconversion or bypass thereof for the different HDMI inputs individually?
post #98 of 8768
Quote:
Originally Posted by frg View Post

Sorry, but I fail to see where it would explicitely suggest that there would be any active filtering from the amp :


The amp may well be able to filter the frequencies for the "bi-amp" selected speaker outputs (the same price range Denon and Onkyo units do so), but because you are dealing with a single power supply unit and transformer inside the AVR, there is no actual bi-amp happening as the current is still being sent from a single power supply source.

Now on say, the Adcom GFA-555 MkII that I have, I can bi-amp a single speaker with one amp because the L/R channels are independently powered. In this case it's a vertical bi-amp because it's one amp doing one speaker, for both arrays separately.

So no, almost none of the AVRs out there can do a true bi-amp. They do a smoke and mirrors bi-amp simply by the fact that there is no independent power source for each channel section being assigned to the bi-amp status. One of the few exceptions to this is the Onkyo NR-5007 (and likely the 5008), as it does have more than one PSU inside (hence it's extremely heavy weight for an AVR).
post #99 of 8768
Quote:
Originally Posted by frg View Post

Sorry, but I fail to see where it would explicitely suggest that there would be any active filtering from the amp

Well, this is why I asked the question but it seems to me that when they say "each amplifier operates over a restricted frequency range" it implied the signal is being filtered (to that restricted frequency range) prior to amplification, no?

I'd have to think about what Squishy Tia is saying some more. I wouldn't think lack of separate power supplies for highs and lows would matter any more than lack of separate power supplies for each channel would matter?

Cheers
post #100 of 8768
Quote:


I'd have to think about what Squishy Tia is saying some more. I wouldn't think lack of separate power supplies for highs and lows would matter any more than lack of separate power supplies for each channel would matter?

It does matter. With but a single power source, you're just effectively bi-wiring with each speaker getting its own XO before the output stage. Bi-wiring is not bi-amping unfortunately, since as I noted before, the power supply is a single unit to both parts of a speaker.

My Adcom example holds true as well. Each of the channels has its own power supply internally, thus both the lower and upper array can benefit from the full 200W for each channel driving them respectively.

My Adcom is setup as the Left channel driving the bass array on my RTi-A9 and the Right channel driving the mid/tweeter array of the same speaker. I have one Adcom for the left channel, and a second for the right channel. The benefit of this setup instead of just using the L/R channels on Adcom1 to drive the bass arrays on the L/R A9s (respectively) and the L/R channels on Adcom 2 to drive the upper arrays is that there is zero crosstalk. None. Zippo. Zilch. Nil. Nada.

Both channels of the same Adcom amp do have slight crosstalk, but since only that one Adcom is driving a single speaker, both the lower and upper array receive the exact same channel info because the channel info is incoming via a Y-Splitter from the L or R pre-out of my HTR-5860 into the Adcom, with a Y-Splitter on each of the L/R to feed the respective amps.

While this does mean that I lack an external XO for the upper and lower arrays (and thus lose a bit more energy to thermal dissipation than if I indeed did have an EXO), the signal remains identical within each speaker's array, and the other speaker's channel info never gets to crosstalk into that amp. The result is a very open sound stage, and with both the lower and upper arrays having access to independent 200W power supplies, I get a total useable power of 400W per speaker.

This, sadly, is not something any AVR will be able to do, even the Onkyo I mentioned above.

If you're going to bi-amp, use external amplifiers of the same design/make. And don't let audiophiles tell you that the method I'm using isn't a true bi-amp. It is, as it use independent power supplies for each array within a speaker. Both EXO and IXO (external and internal crossover respectively) methods are true bi-amp when independent power supplies are in play. The difference is in thermal dissipation (lost energy). EXO is more efficient, IXO is more flexible and does not require modding the speakers if the speakers have their own internal crossovers as the A9s do. Just make sure your amps are identical - you don't want to have to screw with gain variances between channels.
post #101 of 8768
I dont want to pollute this thread with too much bi-amping talk, but from what I think you are saying I disagree 100% with what you are doing.

If you are using external amps with separate power supplies but no crossover / filtering prior to amplification, then you aren't doing anything except sprinkling magic dust. The important part is the filtering before amplification.

Sure you still cant bypass the speaker's internal crossover but you can still filter out most of the signal and reduce the workload on the amps significantly. This is the key I'm asking, and if so its definitely not the same as bi-wiring.
post #102 of 8768
Quote:
Originally Posted by kromkamp View Post

I dont want to pollute this thread with too much bi-amping talk, but from what I think you are saying I disagree 100% with what you are doing.

If you are using external amps with separate power supplies but no crossover / filtering prior to amplification, then you aren't doing anything except sprinkling magic dust. The important part is the filtering before amplification.

Sure you still cant bypass the speaker's internal crossover but you can still filter out most of the signal and reduce the workload on the amps significantly. This is the key I'm asking, and if so its definitely not the same as bi-wiring.

There's no magic dust here. The difference is in efficiency. Output will be nearly identical sonically, as the speaker's internal crossovers already act on the signal. The main difference is in the heat generated (energy loss through dissipation). Using your method or mine, the speaker's going to reproduce only what it can, with the internal crossovers taking care of the filtering. The only difference is the energy lost, which means using a bit (though not significantly) more power to achieve the same volume level. Sonic info remains the same.

Bi-wiring is just sharing one power supply among two separate connections. No matter how you slice it, whether you have two wires together from the same output connector, or a buss bar connecting both array terminals, the result is the same - one source powering two endpoints.

Good internal crossovers do the exact same thing as an EXO. EXOs are designed to work at line level or lower power levels, while IXOs are designed to take amplified signals and cross those over. Assuming the EXO and IXO would be set exactly the same for their XO points, the signal reaching the speaker is identical. As I said, it's merely a matter of efficiency vs. flexibility.

And with a vertical bi-amp setup like mine, there is no crosstalk between channels. Any worry of crosstalk between arrays within the same speaker are negated by the fact that both arrays receive the same signal, and the internal crossovers act upon the identical signals.
post #103 of 8768
Quick question...I pre- ordered the a2000 on amazon, if I am reading the manual correctly you can switch hdmi inputs via the remote even when the amplifier section is in standby. I don't want to have to powerup my whole rack to watch television. Is this true ?
post #104 of 8768
Yes, the manaul (and web site) is very clear that you can switch HDMI inputs in standby mode. But remember this is only useful for HDMI inputs, I doubt it will do analog to HDMI conversion while in standby.
post #105 of 8768
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Yes, the manaul (and web site) is very clear that you can switch HDMI inputs in standby mode. But remember this is only useful for HDMI inputs, I doubt it will do analog to HDMI conversion while in standby.

This is correct. When in standby mode, only the HDMI circuit board is actively powered, and then only if you chose to turn that feature on in the setup menus. In this mode, HDMI should work as if the AVR were set to Passthrough mode, with no interference from the AVR at all, basically turning the AVR into a glorified repeater.
post #106 of 8768
That is what I was hoping, thanks...Now if I can just wait for them to start shipping
post #107 of 8768
Heh. I have to wait until next month to hopefully find the A3000. And I'd prefer best buy since a) it's local and b) I pay no interest for 3 years on the purchase. Gives me lots of time to pay it off, assuming I keep it.
post #108 of 8768
One thing these three new receivers don't have, is switched AC outlets. Not a deal breaker, yet on my RX-V659 there are two of them and I use them for running two sets of fans.
RX-A3000

RX-V659
post #109 of 8768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasst View Post

One thing these three new receivers don't have, is switched AC outlets. Not a deal breaker, yet on my RX-V659 there are two of them and I use them for running two sets of fans.

Which omission makes moot the question of whether any such outlets should be ON or OFF when the RX-A3000 is in "Standby + HDMI Pass-Through" mode...!?

In any event: If you are really considering upgrading from an RX-V659 to an RX-A3000, you might consider retaining and 'repurposing' the RX-V659 to provide amp power for 4 (to 6?) of the 11.x channels that the RX-A3000 can deliver from its pre/pro front-end . . . and you would still be able to use the RX-V659's switched outlets to control your fans...
post #110 of 8768
You can use something like this to add that switching feature http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Strip-LC...1881962&sr=8-1

I'm using a cheapo but similar one that I picked up at Wally Mart to trigger the external fan on my Onkyo 1007 when on off, which also doesn't have switching outlets. Works great.
post #111 of 8768
If the chassis is more rigid, why does it now require a fifth leg to support the middle? And then there's the wieght loss...

I do like the feature set of the 1000 though, except for the missing switched outlets.
post #112 of 8768
If someone picks up the RX-A1000 anytime soon I would appreciate hearing how well the HD radio works. My RX-V2065 is junk in that regards (note that I have a rooftop FM antenna).

Does anyone know if the Denon AVR-3311CI HD tuner works well?
post #113 of 8768
Quote:


One thing these three new receivers don't have, is switched AC outlets. Not a deal breaker, yet on my RX-V659 there are two of them and I use them for running two sets of fans.

I sincerely hope you mean like...+120V heavy duty case fans, because if you meant actual desk/room fans I'd have to shoot you as those are a real source of interference when used on the same line as audio equipment.
post #114 of 8768
You can use a Smart Strip to switch on the fans.

I am looking to get RX-A1000


JohnnyJT
South Philly
post #115 of 8768
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyjt View Post

You can use a Smart Strip to switch on the fans.

I just purchased a Rocketfish - 7-Outlet Home/Office Surge Protector from BestBuy (30 day return policy) to control 2x power amps without triggers, plus 2x subs. Worked perfectly with my shiny new RX-V667.
post #116 of 8768
It seems that they are now showing up as in stock. My local AV store said they are in stock now. FYI
post #117 of 8768
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmist View Post

It seems that they are now showing up as in stock. My local AV store said they are in stock now. FYI

Oh? Seeing it online anywhere yet? (which one are we talking about -- all RX-Ax000s?)
post #118 of 8768
Quote:
Originally Posted by bustamelon View Post

Oh? Seeing it online anywhere yet? (which one are we talking about -- all RX-Ax000s?)

Just the a1000 is out right now. My local dealer has it in stock now. the 2000/3000 won't be out for a few more weeks. Sometime in September.
post #119 of 8768
J&R Music has the A2000 and A3000 listed, presumably, as pre-order. I'm not seeing even the A1000 anywhere but these online/catalog-only shops. Is Yamaha trying to shoot themselves in the foot by not letting people actually see/test the products before they buy?

I need to check some things out in the UI, for which even the A1000 would tell me what I need to know. But without a physical AVR to test...well, my money stays put.
post #120 of 8768
I was surprised that amazon had a 100.00 off the retail on a new product like the a2000. Delete if this is conflicting with the forum rules on pricing.
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