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What were your first "audiophile" speakers and when? - Page 3

post #61 of 171
8/11/10 at 7:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Boy did that tweeter have an sssssss sibilance. Like the old day male classical announcer sssss sound on on FM radio. In those days it was considered a positive of the EPI speakers.

Yes it did. But it was a step up the ladder compared to what was available at the time.

It maybe difficult for some of the younger guys to relate to but some of the best "audiophile" sound came from Monaural Hi-Fi or monophonic sound reproduction; Mono for short or single channel, in the 60's through the early 70's. Stereo 2 channel then was a bit like Blu-ray today. Not as wide spread in user base, quality of recordings and pressings was all over the map, and it was expensive as you essentially had to have twice as much equipment as mono had. Mono recording was "mature" and would often present a better sound stage compared to the stereo offering of the same artist.

Witness the recent re-issue of the Beatles catalog on CD in mono. I still have Beatles, Cream, Hendrix, Led Zeppelin , Yardbirds, etc. on mono vinyl. They don't have the ping-pong recording technique with weak vocals on top of drums in one channel and every thing else squeezed into the other.
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post #62 of 171
8/11/10 at 7:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

As I mentioned it's the opposite for me. I flirt with planars, have owned them (Quad ESL 63s) and I've listened to most of the planar offerings over the years. But I keep going back to dynamic speakers for the most satisfying over all experience (to me). My pal has a nice new pair of Martin Logans right now. I love listening to them as a "place to visit" but I wouldn't want to "live there" as it were.

That said, the ribbon speakers, like Maggies and to a degree Apogee, have always struck me as a half-way zone between dynamics and electrostatics.
They have a lot of the transparency and boxless sound of the electrostatics (although maybe not quite as refined as the best electrostatics in some regards) but they also have more body to the sound. I certainly can see the attraction to ribbon speakers.

Then you wouldn't be hooked, would you.
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post #63 of 171
8/11/10 at 9:29am
Gotta thank Steve for this thread, bringing back a lot of memories (and googling of speakers that I don't know).

Gonna start an amp thread along the same lines?
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post #64 of 171
8/11/10 at 10:18am
On that note, here's some for you Curt.

  • What speaker featured both a 6th order Thiel Small bass alignment and a vented midrange driver ?
  • What speaker company had "Sound as clear as light" ?
  • What does VMPS stand for ?
  • What speaker company has "Dimensional Purity"
  • What speaker line was used by Telarc as a Monitor.
  • What speaker was used by Abbey Road Studios to mix the Beatles White Album ?
  • What speaker was used by Lucas film to mix Star Wars ?
  • Who was John Bau, and where did he attend school, and who was his equally famous classmate ?
  • Who is Bill Watkins, and what is he known for.
  • Who did Albert Von Schweikert work for in the early days ?
  • Who was Jon Dahlquist's best friend in Audio ?
  • What driver was used as the woofer in the Dahlquist DQ-10?
  • Who is Bud Fried, and what is he known for.
  • Who was Stuart Hegeman ?
  • What tweeter did Roy Allison patent, and what are it's advantages ?
  • What is an "air spring tweeter" ?
  • Who first used Laser Interferometry for speakers ?
  • What was unique about Dayton-Wright electrostatic speakers?
  • Who was Arthur Janszen ?
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post #65 of 171
8/11/10 at 10:27am
This is a fun thread, as some have said, brings back a lot of memories. Not sure if they were 'audiophile' speakers, but my first 'real' speakers were Advent Legacy's driving by Luxman equipment (early 80's). Those were the simple days of audio and a lot of fun.
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post #66 of 171
8/11/10 at 11:26am
Without googling I will attempt to answer many of the questions.

Dimensional Purity-Vandersteen Audio

Telarc used ATC speakers I think

Abbey -- used B&W speakers. maybe 801s or 800`s? could also have used Kefs in those days

Lucas used M&Ks-the pro division I think

Bud Fried was a famous speaker designer. looking at some realold literature from the 70s, he designed a transmission line loudspeaker for some company, IMF? And he beieve in series xovers.

Stewart Hegeman did lots of electronic things. He among other things built a modular preamp that did its amplification in the current mode, converting voltage to amps and then back again because it was cleaner. Krell copied him I think claiming it some marvellous technique on their own. hegeman did many other audio related things. the preamp cpst about $2500 with all modules. Stewart did not believe much in phase aspects. One of the blocks was a filter placed before the preamp gain module to filter out frequencies below 20HZ and above 20Khz.

john bau was the spica speaker designer. He used his own computer programs to desinn the xovers.

mike wright was known for electrostatic speakers using a bag filled with gas as part of the design. he alsomanufactured a speaker that looked a lot like a spica and he also designed a contact cleaner enhancer that Sumiko marketed for many years. sumiko called it Tweek or something like that.

arthur jensen designed electrostatic pasnels and electrostativ speakers using multiple small electrostatic panels. wison used these in his Wham.
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post #67 of 171
8/11/10 at 11:41am
B&W used laser interferometry. I don`t know who was first or who was on second.
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post #68 of 171
8/11/10 at 3:02pm
After googling, Ii discoved this list of questions was lifted from some forum in 2007 with many answers appearing there, some different from the answers I gave.
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post #69 of 171
8/11/10 at 4:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

after googlin i discoved this list of questions was lifted from some forum in 2007 with many ansers appearing there,some different from the answers I gave.

Yes, I used that quiz and added a few. Certainly no secrets, especially if you google. What I find interesting about the correct answers is that they point out how small the world of audio is.

The business model for successful people in the industry seems to be to start a company around a good idea or the evolution of an existing design or circuit topology, bring it to market, generate cash flow, sell the company to a corporation who end up running the business into the ground, and repeat.

For instance the woofer section for the Dahlquist DQ-10 is the same driver that was used in the Larger Advent. In fact if you look at the woofer section of the DQ-10, it's a Larger Advent turned on its side with the midrange and high frequency drivers mounted on top, dipole configuration. The dipole configuration and overall cosmetics of the DQ-10 emulate the QUAD ESL 57. Dahlquists brilliance was to use common, low cost, off the shelf components that sounded good and add time alignment to the drivers. The result was a legendary speaker that has direct influence on many of the speakers we buy today.
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post #70 of 171
8/11/10 at 4:56pm
My first real speakers were when I swapped out my White Van speakers for a pair of Bang & Olufsen RL60s.

I remember at one point I disassembled the White Van speakers and while doing so poked a hole in the woofer with the screw driver. There was no impact on the sound quality Somehow I turned a profit on the White Van speakers selling them to a fraternity. They had metal grills to protect against the random thrown beer bottle...
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post #71 of 171
8/11/10 at 5:06pm
Move aside youngsters. My first audiophile speaker was an Acoustic Research AR-2, purchased in 1957 for the princely sum of $89 (that got you a cabinet in unfinished pine; I "finished" my speaker by wrapping the cabinet in black Contac paper, which made for a rather handsome appearance).

AR and its offshoot rival KLH were just beginning to make a splash in the high-fidelity world. A few years later (1959) they would be boosted to more prominence by a seminal Consumer Reports test of loudspeakers (back then CR actually did credible audio testing). CR found only four loudspeakers worthy of being called "high-fidelity" - the AR-1, AR-2, KLH-4. and KLH-6. They dissed such big name brands as University, Bozak, Electro-Voice, Jensen, Hartley, James B. Lansing. Needless to say, the report caused an uproar in the speaker industry, but it put AR and KLH on the map.

Of course $89 was a lot of money back then for a struggling college student. This speaker was for my first real "high-fidelity" system - a mono system. The buzz about that newfangled stereo thing was just beginning to take hold among audio hobbyists (can you believe that when stereo was first introduced in the mass market, the salesmen called the second channel speaker a "slave" unit).

That system got me started in a hobby that has gone on for 50+ years. Spent tons too much money, but had a ball all the way. Still an audiophile, but very happy with what I have, and don't plan to buy much more.

Happy listening.
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post #72 of 171
8/11/10 at 5:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme View Post

Gotta thank Steve for this thread, bringing back a lot of memories (and googling of speakers that I don't know).

Gonna start an amp thread along the same lines?

Its been a long time I've been thanked for anything here at AVS other than for fomenting trouble and trying to get rid of DW (as you know, he gets reincarnated, but oh well).

I've been thinkin' that this is a real fun thread, going back years ago when many of us had little $$, some of us were in college, and a system costing under or a bit more than grand sure gave us a great deal of enjoyment! In law school, a friend would bring over his classical records and say that my stereo was so outstanding that it talked to us. My good ol Infinity 2000 II speakers, Pioneer turntable, and Pioneer SX-1010 receiver. I drove that receiver so hard that after a year of law school, when it was less than 2 years old but out of warranty, it crapped out on me, and a local stereo repair place fixed it, but had to put in a larger heat sink and the repairs were not cheap at all. I remember living on Washington Circle in law school, studying with my stereo on LOUD playing the Rolling Stones, and a few of the homeless folks from the park across the street would come knock on our door wanting to come in, drink beer and listen to loud music. But I only allowed the local cop to do that!
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post #73 of 171
8/11/10 at 5:43pm
Spica TC-50's and a Vandersteen sub, powered by a Musical Fidelity B-1 (35 watts per channel ).........I think that falls way short of $20,000+, or you could just say you'd have $19, 450.00 left over...

KG

PS mite as well throw in the Teac X-1000R R2R, and the Denon DP 62L TT mid 80's
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post #74 of 171
8/11/10 at 6:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post

On that note, here's some for you Curt.



What does VMPS stand for ?


Veritone Minimum Phase Speaker

Quote:


Who was Jon Dahlquist's best friend in Audio ?

I believe Saul Marantz told me he and Jon were close. In fact, he said he was quite involved in the design of the DQ-10.
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post #75 of 171
8/11/10 at 8:03pm
It was Saul Marantz who was best friends with Jon. I met Saul shortly before he died. He was the front panel designer for an electronics line that some ex Dahlquest people and John Curl were staring to start up. I was John Curls lawyer for his contract of employment with the company. A stock market crash that year killed off raising the venture capital the company needed to get rolling. John Curl and Brian Cheny, Mr. VMPS, shared work space together I believe back then. I first met John when I did some work for the Dennesen Electrostatic Company which garnered fame with the Dennesen Cartridge Alignment Protractors, an air bearing tonearm, and the JC-80, a preamp designed by Peter Madnick and John Curl with a little power supply assistance from me based on some work I did with Stan Warren from the original PS Audio days. It had to do with utilizing oversized transformers to reduce primary impedence which increased the recharge or refresh frequency. John and I would fight about this incessently. John finally in later years came around to the concept of over designed power supplies. John in those days was a pioneer in utiling J fets in a very tight surface area design. We played around with various caps based on the seminal article on caps written by Richard Marsh and published in two parts in the now defunct Audio Magazone. Frank Dennison died a few years back. Those were the good old days but my legal career and starting an audio store (not trolling, maybe I should throw in a meraningless graph, say of a DC voltage with no ripple),so I am not accused of trolling) kept me away from circuit design. I did some work on turntable and tone arm design for a while with my friend Herb Pappier of Wheaton Triplanar fame, long dead now too.herb lived only a few miles from me and many nights he would call me at 3 AM to tell me about another fantastic minor change he made in his arm design and that I should come right over to hear the unbelievable improvement. I would beg Herb to give up on balsa wood for the arm tube arguing for a rigid metal tube with increased thickness in the middle (cigar shaped)and damping to get rid of the ringing caused by a metal tube. After many years, Herb gave in to me on the metal part. John and Peter remain good friends of mine. Brian, I haven`t seen often in recent years. but he is a genius.

I have many stories from those days of being a young man but they will await another day.
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post #76 of 171
8/12/10 at 6:52am
I'd enjoy it if people would post images of some of these ol' speakers. To a lot of us they are just letters and numbers.

Pics or it didn't happen.

:-)
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post #77 of 171
8/12/10 at 7:10am
Rich. I don`t do pictures, I have to ask a friend or an employee to post them for me. And most of this stuff, I no longer have so pictures would have to be found on the net and then reposted. And this was so long ago, maybe it didn`t happen but just is a fading dream. I am not taking this growing old very well anymore. Technology is passing me by.
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post #78 of 171
8/12/10 at 7:23am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Rich. I don`t do pictures, I have to ask a friend or an employee to post them for me. And most of this stuff, I no longer have so pictures would have to be found on the net and then reposted. And this was so long ago, maybe it didn`t happen but just is a fading dream. I am not taking this growing old very well anymore. Technology is passing me by.

Just Google your speakers for a minute or two and you are likely to find someone else's photo of the speakers online. Thats how I got the photos of my once upon a time Infinity 2000 IIs.
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post #79 of 171
8/12/10 at 7:32am
My first? Year 2000, Paradigm Monitor 7's, PS-1000 sub, CC-350 center, and dipole surrounds (ADP-370 I think.) Connected to a Marantz SR-7000. That set used to shake the crap out of the room. I loved it.

A few years ago I sold the entire speaker set for $500 (I will never get rid of my beloved Marantz.) Then the guy turned around and sold the set on ebay for $1500+. Damn.
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post #80 of 171
8/12/10 at 8:32am
KLH 9 Electrostatics (double pair) w/ Mac C22, MR71, MC275 (2), MI-3
1970

Also, double stacked Advents
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post #81 of 171
8/12/10 at 8:50am
those KLH-9s were sweet. People are still looking for those. Not cheap if you can find a pair in good working order. There used to be a source for replacing dead pannels, of which there are multiple panels per side which didn`t all died at once if I remember the design correctly. I have no idea if anyone is supplying new or rebuilt panels now a days.

Wilson in his design of the early Whams improved upon the design bu placing the panels on an arc to closer approximate a spherical launch, the next best thing to a point source.
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post #82 of 171
8/12/10 at 8:52am
I purchased a complete Aerial Acoustics (10T, CC3, SR5) speaker set back in 1997 and I am still using them today. I had to replace one woofer (failed during the opening scene of Dark Knight) a few years ago.
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post #83 of 171
8/12/10 at 8:57am
My first was a Yorx mini system with turntable and cassette and the speakers they came with. You are all jealous I know.
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post #84 of 171
8/12/10 at 9:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

those KLH-9s were sweet. People are still looking for those. Not cheap if you can find a pair in good working order. There used to be a source for replacing dead pannels, of which there are multiple panels per side which didn`t all died at once if I remember the design correctly. I have no idea if anyone is supplying new or rebuilt panels now a days. ...

Janszen is restoring/rebuilding KLH-9's.

http://www.janszenloudspeaker.com/Ja...de%2090202.pdf
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post #85 of 171
8/12/10 at 10:14am
Steve, I was Googling to see what "Doug Winsor's" first "audiophile" speakers might have been and I found your other thread on the same subject over at the "What's Best Forum".

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...akers-and-when

They seem to have a little more diversification over there.
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post #86 of 171
8/12/10 at 10:48am
Jason. I think you are not just edging the out of bounds line. You are in the standings blowing that whatever horn. Those are not audiophile speakers. but I am jealous. My first speaker but not audiphile was a $20 Radioshack in the 50s, mono, and placed inside the fireplace.
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post #87 of 171
8/12/10 at 6:15pm
Here's the little ADS buggers I first had:

http://www.epinions.com/content_405137690244
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post #88 of 171
8/12/10 at 7:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

It was Saul Marantz who was best friends with Jon. I met Saul shortly before he died. He was the front panel designer for an electronics line that some ex Dahlquest people and John Curl were staring to start up. I was John Curls lawyer for his contract of employment with the company. A stock market crash that year killed off raising the venture capital the company needed to get rolling. John Curl and Brian Cheny, Mr. VMPS, shared work space together I believe back then. I first met John when I did some work for the Dennesen Electrostatic Company which garnered fame with the Dennesen Cartridge Alignment Protractors, an air bearing tonearm, and the JC-80, a preamp designed by Peter Madnick and John Curl with a little power supply assistance from me based on some work I did with Stan Warren from the original PS Audio days. It had to do with utilizing oversized transformers to reduce primary impedence which increased the recharge or refresh frequency. John and I would fight about this incessently. John finally in later years came around to the concept of over designed power supplies. John in those days was a pioneer in utiling J fets in a very tight surface area design. We played around with various caps based on the seminal article on caps written by Richard Marsh and published in two parts in the now defunct Audio Magazone. Frank Dennison died a few years back. Those were the good old days but my legal career and starting an audio store (not trolling, maybe I should throw in a meraningless graph, say of a DC voltage with no ripple),so I am not accused of trolling) kept me away from circuit design. I did some work on turntable and tone arm design for a while with my friend Herb Pappier of Wheaton Triplanar fame, long dead now too.herb lived only a few miles from me and many nights he would call me at 3 AM to tell me about another fantastic minor change he made in his arm design and that I should come right over to hear the unbelievable improvement. I would beg Herb to give up on balsa wood for the arm tube arguing for a rigid metal tube with increased thickness in the middle (cigar shaped)and damping to get rid of the ringing caused by a metal tube. After many years, Herb gave in to me on the metal part. John and Peter remain good friends of mine. Brian, I haven`t seen often in recent years. but he is a genius.

I have many stories from those days of being a young man but they will await another day.

Mark, you sound like you would fit in just fine in the VMPS room at THE SHOW in vegas every year.

Brian, John Curl, James Bongiorno, Bob Carver, Arnie Nudell, and any number of oldtimers drop in and out and talk about old times,

We're doing it again this January, if you can drop by, with a LIVE MUSIC versus Recorded demonstration.
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post #89 of 171
8/12/10 at 7:48pm
I don`t go to CES anymore and personally I think The Show is nothing more than an organization which sucks blood from the CES show. I find it particulary distasteful when they insist on sticking a The Show sticker on my CES badge holder. I refuse to let them do it and instead if I have to see an exhibitor there for business reasons I sneak in. It isn`t hard. I never made friends with Arni and I know James only from meetting him at CESs years ago. I speak to Bob every once and awhile. He is often at Rita`s vintage audio repair in the town where he lives which specializes in Carver repairs. I send older Carver`s there for repair. thanks for the invite though. I know I would enjoy it.
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post #90 of 171
8/13/10 at 12:05pm
My first day in what ended up being my career was Jan 14, 1972. I stumbled on to the world premiere of the DQ-10. That day I met and got to know Jon, Saul and the person who became my mentor, Tasso Spanos (he ran the shop that was doing this). I was 14. The first speakers that I bought with my own money were a set of used Quads in 1975 from the same shop ( I was working there so I had first pickings of the used shelf). We had to attend a live unamplified musical performance once a month and make a live recording (of anything, really. But live.) once a quarter with Tasso's pair of Sennheiser condensers and Studer open reel deck. I learned quite a bit about sound and more importantly, music, in those days.

My audio priorities have changed over the years, but the speaker that I honestly had the most fun with was the Spica TC-50. I had one of the few sets that were done in gloss black, and I have yet to hear imaging like that. I kept them with my Velodyne 18 until I got a full set of Dunlavy SC1AVs for 7.1 which, when I sat in the perfect spot could give me chills with well recorded multichannel audio. I finally got rid of my Dunlavys after finding out how much fun I was having doing the Godsmack dueling drum solo at CEDIA for Marantz on the Snell THX setup, which is now what I have. They aren't as musical as the Dunlavys were, but their ability to play at live (and I mean LIVE) levels and still sound good is just too enjoyable. I smile more when I play them than I did with the Dunlavys, and overall, they are just plain fun. Harder to integrate though, since they aren't exactly what you would call bookshelf designs...
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) › What were your first "audiophile" speakers and when?