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2 channel, stereo, $1500 budget

post #1 of 28
8/10/10 at 10:53am
Thread Starter 
Hi,
I'm looking for a 2 channel system in the range of $1500 - $1700. I'd appreciate some advice and sorry if there is something similar in any other thread I just looked and I didn't find it.

Main objective is stereo music listening. But the equipment is going to be next to my TV so occasionally I'm going to use it for movies. That's why I'm thinking to buy a 7.1 so in the future I can expand it. But the expansion is going to be just for the movies, I want my stereo system complete now.

1) In the speakers: should I go for a good stereo speakers with bass or just add a subwoofer? What is the stereo theory? just 2 channels or is allowable to have a subwoofer? I heard somebody say that subwoofers are for enhancing the performance of cheap equipment.

2) I'm going to stream the music from my PC through a digital output so I need a receiver with a DAC. I'm looking at something like Onkyo TX-NR1007
$800

3) I saw different sets of speakers
a) Polk TSi500: $400 x2 (four 6.5" drivers)
b) Polk RTiA5: $450 x2 (two 6.5" midbass drivers )
c) Yamaha NS-777: $350 x 2
d) Any recommendations?

4) My room is quite small 20ft x 10ft x 8ft = 1600 cu. ft. Am I going to be able to enjoy those speakers? Or should I go with something smaller?

5) is the amp and speakers quality balanced? Or I'm spending too much in some of them. (i.e.: perhaps is too much amp for the speakers or vice versa)

Thanks in advance for the advise

Alejandro
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post #2 of 28
8/10/10 at 11:35am
the RTIA 5s are better speakers than the TSI series so even if they don't go as low as the 500's i would go with the RTIas but you have other options as well adn I think better ones. I would look at Jamo C400 series or C600 series both very good speaker and I think better than the Polks. Also if you're willing to go bookshelf size and add subwoofer maybe look at Totem's Rainmakers or Ascend Sierra 1s.
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post #3 of 28
8/10/10 at 12:38pm
I would stick with 2.0 for now, you can get a pair of very nice speakers for $1000, and then spend the rest on a receiver, and maybe an amplifier.

At this price range, you should be auditioning speakers at audio shops, and bringing in the kinds of music you plan on listening to.

I would recommend going with a receiver that has pre-outs, and then picking up a nice 2 channel amplifier to really drive your speakers well and get you the most out of them.

One place I can't emphasize enough is www.audiogon.com Its like ebay for audiophiles, and there is mainly very nice stuff, a lot of vintage as well. Its a great way to get fantastic speakers and equipment, and spread your dollar a little further.

Once you audition some speakers and figure out what brands you like, then you can check out audiogon to see what they have.

Just after a quick browse, http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....l-Concerta-F12 These Revels are in like-new condition and are pretty impressive. This is the kind of speaker you can listen to in a nice hi-fi shop.
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post #4 of 28
8/10/10 at 1:33pm
If you go with the Parasound 2100 pre you can still use it in conjuntion with your surround sound system for 2 channel listening. It has HT bypass and as a stand alone 2 channel pre it's performance is outstanding.
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post #5 of 28
8/10/10 at 2:42pm
Thread Starter 
First of all thanks for the replies.

Ok. I'll go to audition some audio shops. I already went to Best buy and Fry's but it looks like I'm going to go to more serious places.

So this is what I have in my scope now:
a) Jamo C 607 Floorstanding Speaker (Black) $400 ea. - Coolsax suggestion
b) ConcertA F12 (I think they are pretty big(power) for my room) $1300 pair - Transmaniacon suggestion


Transmaniacon: Regarding your suggestion I was researching again the receivers and I have a question:
If I go to the Onkyo TX-SR508 ($300) 80w per channel do you think it is going to work fine with the speakers?
That gives me more money to in the future buy a good 2 channel amp.
The TX-SR508 has a Zone 2 - Line out, is that the same as a pre amp? I mean can I connect there a future 2 ch amp and use the receiver as a DAC?

Chicagorep: I don't understand why would I need a pre amp in my setup. Please let me know what was your suggestion. Thanks.
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post #6 of 28
8/10/10 at 4:02pm
You've gone from a '2 channel, stereo, $1500 budget' to now looking at a 7.1 setup. Not that they are diametrically opposed but you need to figure out what you want and stick with it (somewhat).
I'll second the Revel suggestions. Great sounding speakers and you can add on speakers from Infinity later that will cost less than the Revel models for your eventual center and surround channels. Infinity Interludes - Alphas - Betas - Classia - Cascade - they all timbre match with the Revel tweeter. All use the same CMMD tweeter drivers.

As for 2 channel - get an Onkyo 8555 or Harman Kardon 3490 and you can drive most any speaker you want except planars.

The Parasound 2100 is a stereo preamp - a good one for not too much money.

No - you can't connect a 2 channel amp to the 508 and use it as a DAC. Like virtually all AVRs it cannot shunt digital sources off to zone II.

Those Revel speakers with the HK 3490 or Onkyo 8555 would make you forget you needed HT for a long time. I know what I'd do if I were in your position.
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post #7 of 28
8/10/10 at 5:03pm
Thread Starter 
Knucklehead90:

I'd love to forget about the HT but as a requirement i need a digital input (I have a PC as a source)
If I get a HK 3490 or Onkyo 8555 I'll need a DAC what add at least $300 bucks in the bill.
Do you think the Onkyo TX-SR508 will have the same amp quality as the 8555? or not even close? they both are 100W amps
Because that one has the DAC included

Regarding the Revels F12: Do you think I'll be able to enjoy them in a small room? (20ft x 10ft x 8ft = 1600 cu. ft.)

Thanks again

Alejandro
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post #8 of 28
8/10/10 at 5:10pm
The 3490 has a DAC built in. Look around and you can find the 3490 for $300 - or even less.
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post #9 of 28
8/12/10 at 9:10am
Thread Starter 
Knucklehead90: Great I didn't realise that. I think that is the way to go for me.

With that setup, using a digital input all the time, do I need a pre amp?
I noticed the hk3490 has an Audio -> Pre Out and Audio -> Main In. Can I conect an equalizer there? even If I'm using the digital input?

Regarding the Revels F12: Do you think I'll be able to enjoy them in a small room? (20ft x 10ft x 8ft = 1600 cu. ft.)

Thanks again guys and sorry to still throwing questions, but I don't trust too much on the store seller guys (They just want to sell stuff and even me with a little knowledge caought them saying so many nonsense things)
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post #10 of 28
8/12/10 at 10:10am
Manual for the 3490:

http://www.harmankardon.com/resource...ERS_MANUAL.pdf

As this is a receiver, it includes a preamp, amp and tuner in one chassis.

As far as using the F12's in a small room, search for reviews and look for context. I imagine they'll be perfect.
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post #11 of 28
8/12/10 at 10:18am
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/r...ncerta_f12.htm

http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/706revel/

http://www.revelspeakers.com/product...asp?product=19
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post #12 of 28
8/12/10 at 11:55am
I have these w/ a sub, and love 'em.

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/n...ssic_three.htm

Worth auditioning if you the chance.
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post #13 of 28
8/13/10 at 9:51pm
No preamp is required.
An equalizer can be connected to the pre outs and re-connected to the main ins. Even with digital inputs.
The Revels should sound great in a room that size. Smaller rooms with overstuffed chairs and sofas with carpeting and heavy drapes would be an ideal atmosphere for just about any speaker system. The more hard surfaces the more sound will reflect. Some things can't be helped such as tile floors and ceilings.

Sales staff at most stores usually don't know what they are talking about - and most customers don't have a clue what is BS and what isn't so the sales staff get away with a lot. They just get a bit embarrassed when I walk into their store and they start running off at the mouth.
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post #14 of 28
8/20/10 at 9:49am
Thread Starter 
Thanks all again.

I was auditioning these days but I found out I didn't have too much brands around my area (Los Angeles)
So I listen to some Dynaudio, PSBs and B&W. I couldn't find a place with the revel to listen.

But all the brands I auditioned I loved them. Perhaps because I'm doing a big jump from a crappy HT to these kind of level.

I think perhaps a good idea is to buy some used revels (audiogon: Transmaniacon suggestion), so in the future I can switch them is I want and I don't have too much loss.

Here is my dilemma now if I go used, perhaps I can stretch myself up to the Performa F32 instead of the Concerta F12 suggested by Transmaniacon.

(F32 double the price of the F12 so I think they would be much better quality)

But because I want them to listen to stereo (no subwoofer) I'm worried because the F32 have 2x6 1/2 inches woofers instead of the F12 that have 2x8 inches woofers.

Do you think the F32 are going to have lack of bass because that? I don't want to have to add a sub-woofer. I mean eventually but just for movies but not for having to turn it on with stereo music.

I appreciate a lot your help guys. I currently have one F32 for sale in audiogon so I'd appreciate a suggestion ASAP so I don't miss it.

Thanks again guys!!

PS: I forgot to say but I'm going to be powering them with the HK 3490 right now and upgrade that part of the system in the future as I think is going to be the weakest point.
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post #15 of 28
8/20/10 at 10:13am
^^^

looking at the specs, in room response should be equal between the two...

the concerta's would be easier to drive...

driver size doesn't always equate to more frequency extension...
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post #16 of 28
8/20/10 at 10:26am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

looking at the specs, in room response should be equal between the two...

the concerta's would be easier to drive...

driver size doesn't always equate to more frequency extension...

I'm sorry about my ignorance. What is an easy to drive speaker? would the HK 3490 (120W x 2) do the job?
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post #17 of 28
8/20/10 at 3:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ale5jandro View Post

Thanks all again.

I was auditioning these days but I found out I didn't have too much brands around my area (Los Angeles)
So I listen to some Dynaudio, PSBs and B&W. I couldn't find a place with the revel to listen.

But all the brands I auditioned I loved them. Perhaps because I'm doing a big jump from a crappy HT to these kind of level.

I think perhaps a good idea is to buy some used revels (audiogon: Transmaniacon suggestion), so in the future I can switch them is I want and I don't have too much loss.

Here is my dilemma now if I go used, perhaps I can stretch myself up to the Performa F32 instead of the Concerta F12 suggested by Transmaniacon.

(F32 double the price of the F12 so I think they would be much better quality)

But because I want them to listen to stereo (no subwoofer) I'm worried because the F32 have 2x6 1/2 inches woofers instead of the F12 that have 2x8 inches woofers.

Do you think the F32 are going to have lack of bass because that? I don't want to have to add a sub-woofer. I mean eventually but just for movies but not for having to turn it on with stereo music.

I appreciate a lot your help guys. I currently have one F32 for sale in audiogon so I'd appreciate a suggestion ASAP so I don't miss it.

Thanks again guys!!

PS: I forgot to say but I'm going to be powering them with the HK 3490 right now and upgrade that part of the system in the future as I think is going to be the weakest point.

Any help please?
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post #18 of 28
8/20/10 at 6:52pm
I would not get the NR1007 if music is a major part of your listening- the Marantz 7.1 receivers sound better for 2 channel listening (I had both). If you don't care about 7.1, get a stand alone DAC like the Musical Fidelity VDAC for $300 and a decent integrated amp like the ones listed above- I would add the Cambridge 550A to the list as well. The best bang for buck is used stuff on Craigslist if you know what to look for (old Carver or Adcom integrated's, older Mirage MS line speakers, etc.). Put the most money/thought/research into speakers.

I had at one time a $1569 system that was Thiel 2.4 speakers ($900 on CL, serious deal), Cambridge 640A ($369 open box) amp and the VDAC ($300 retail) that rocked with clarity.
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post #19 of 28
8/20/10 at 10:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ale5jandro View Post

I'm sorry about my ignorance. What is an easy to drive speaker? would the HK 3490 (120W x 2) do the job?

Not all speakers are created equal. Given a set amount of power of 1 watt some speakers will put out 90db of sound at one meter - others will put out more and some less. 90db seems to be the average. An easy to drive speaker (IMO) would be something in the 92-94db range or greater. The db rating is referred to as the sensitivity of the speaker. Since it takes a doubling of power for each 3db of increase of db (measurement of sound level) a speaker that has a sensitivity of 84db starts off well behind a speaker with a 90db sensitivity and will require more power to produce reference sound levels for music and movies.

While speaker manufacturers could produce very high sensitivity speakers the higher sensitivity speakers come with their own unique problems. It seems the 90db sensitivity range is a sweet spot for speakers.

The HK 3490 can drive just about any 4 or 8ohm speaker made. The exception would be electrostatic speakers which the best of amps might have trouble driving.
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post #20 of 28
8/22/10 at 9:57pm
For the polks, you can look at buying from their ebay store. The units are tagged refurbs but have heard they are as good as new. The A5s typically go for like $460 a pair while the A9s should also fit in your budget.

If its just stereo, you might consider planars like the magnepans.
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post #21 of 28
8/26/10 at 10:05pm
If you opt to go for 2 channel the only obvious choice is the Onkyo A-5VL with built in DAC. It's a true audiophile Class D integrated amp inside out that's around $450 or lower on the net. All you need is digital coax out from the player. The rest of the budget can go to a floorstander like the PSB Image T5 or T6.
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post #22 of 28
9/3/10 at 10:30am
go listen to a set of ~$1800 vandersteen 2Ce speakers at a dealer. if you like 'em, they can regularly be had used for less than half that.

i've been at it ~20 years with a modest budget, and they are without a doubt the single best bit of AV gear i have ever invested in. they are still in service in my reference 2 channel room and they make me smile every time i listen.
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post #23 of 28
9/3/10 at 11:01am
1 2nd the used vandersteen option. I got my 3a sigs for 1750 used.

taam
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post #24 of 28
9/3/10 at 12:30pm
HK 3490 (i have it, love it) off harman's ebay (might have to wait a while to snag one)

$900 for speakers (add a sub later down the road)
$300 for materials for DIY room treatments (youll make a very noticable difference with some treatments - more so than spending an extra $300 on better speakers)
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post #25 of 28
9/4/10 at 5:03pm
Music Hall 50.2 is now $599 1/2 off on Music Direct. It's 90 WPC at 8ohms and 180 WPC at 4 ohms. It also includes a phono section for mm/mc. And if your into it an I-pod section. Speakers JM Focal labs $695 or 714 floorstander $1095. Totem Rainmakers $899.
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post #26 of 28
9/15/10 at 4:41pm
Thread Starter 
First of all thanks to all of that replied to my post. It really helped me a lot.

I ended up buying:

HK 3490 for $305 B&H Video with shipping and tax included.

2 Revel F32 speakers used for $1600 with shipping included (Audiogon website) They suppose to be $2K each, brand new. They only had a minor scratch on the bottom (not visible) and the seller sent me the pic of it before I purchased them.

SPK Blue Jean Cables 10AWG 2 banana conectors each. Cables: $82 with shipping and tax.

Total spent $1987

I have it connected to a HTPC through the digital output and I play all lossless music, even played some 24bit/96khz ripped vinylos.

The system sounds amazing, bad thing I'm not a good reference point. My previous system was a Logitech Z-5500

I watched Rocky 1-6 in 1080p thinking I was going to miss the subwoofer and the surround speakers, but no. The clarity of sounds makes you to don't miss the 5.1 (unless you add it at the same level your stereo system is)

This was my birthday present to myself for this year.

I think I got a little cheap on the amplifier (I knew it but it was this year budget) so I think would be my next birthday present to upgrade to a DAC + Pre + Amp
Any suggestions for my whish list to pair those speaker are much appreciated

Thanks again to all

Alejandro
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post #27 of 28
9/15/10 at 5:37pm
Make sure you audition any pre/amp in your own home next to the 3490 - there won't be much difference and possibly none whatever. Read this before sinking a wad of money into electronics. You have a great set of speakers and it's speakers that make the most difference - electronics - eh - not so much.
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post #28 of 28
9/16/10 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ale5jandro View Post

First of all thanks to all of that replied to my post. It really helped me a lot.

I ended up buying:

HK 3490 for $305 B&H Video with shipping and tax included.

2 Revel F32 speakers used for $1600 with shipping included (Audiogon website) They suppose to be $2K each, brand new. They only had a minor scratch on the bottom (not visible) and the seller sent me the pic of it before I purchased them.

SPK Blue Jean Cables 10AWG 2 banana conectors each. Cables: $82 with shipping and tax.

Total spent $1987

I have it connected to a HTPC through the digital output and I play all lossless music, even played some 24bit/96khz ripped vinylos.

The system sounds amazing, bad thing I'm not a good reference point. My previous system was a Logitech Z-5500

I watched Rocky 1-6 in 1080p thinking I was going to miss the subwoofer and the surround speakers, but no. The clarity of sounds makes you to don't miss the 5.1 (unless you add it at the same level your stereo system is)

This was my birthday present to myself for this year.

I think I got a little cheap on the amplifier (I knew it but it was this year budget) so I think would be my next birthday present to upgrade to a DAC + Pre + Amp
Any suggestions for my whish list to pair those speaker are much appreciated

Thanks again to all

Alejandro

Very nice birthday present and a very nice set-up. Great pick up on the Revels through Audigon. Deals available there are sometimes unbeatable. I'm sure you are enjoying the "sound".

I recently picked up $4K worth of speakers (MSRP) on Audigon for $1275. Speakers are essentially brand new!

Your initial post mentioned possibly moving to 7.1. In this case, you need to strongly consider the processor. Having owned only a limited number of processors recently (Marantz, HK, Rotel and Outlaw) I can hear differences in 2 channel performance. Of the four I have experience with, the Marantz stands out for 2 channel (IMO).

I have an eye out for these from Marantz. MSRP is $4K and are available for around $2K. The AV8003 has all the current connectivity (except HDMI 1.4) and worth a listen. The MM8003 provides a modest power boost over the HK3490.
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