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anthem or parasound - Page 3

post #61 of 101
8/17/10 at 9:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotobird View Post

far as my spelling blame my computer I'm blind within 20 inches and the computer dose its best to translate best it can

If you don't mind my asking, what special software do you use? Years ago, I'd been tempted to try Dragon Naturally just to find out how well it worked but never had a real need so never spent the money.
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post #62 of 101
8/17/10 at 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotobird View Post

wow such opinions
interesting how some people think.
Have you lived with klipsch probably not, say $2000 is a waste of money better to buy new sp i took magies 1.6 into trade on klipsch RF83
I purchased my first pair of klipsch over 20 years ago
maybe klipsch are not your cup of tea
As far as distorting no way we put up a out door movie set up at the end of the block for a few weeks out of the year powered by my klipsch one of the reason for a higher power amp.
heck if i could afford krell to power them i would have and still kept the klipsch
Realize you cant tell quality in a 2 minute demo you have to live with it
Are my klipsch perfect god no. Perfect for me hell yes. The same can be said for your gear
The Anthem amp is a excellent match for the klipsck and yes mine can play louder then yours. unless you go with klipsch your sp would be junk at half there capibility.
that remark is only directed at at those who are derogatory not those with a open mind.
Back to the Anthem MCA50 local service was very important, and again the sound is excellent
interesting no one mentioned that Para sound and Anthem are owned by the same company and use a lot of the same design in there amps.
Although my local dealer did not carry parasound they had a unit in trade and popped the hood on both you could see the likeness between the amps even the same parts in some areas.
In my opinion and that is what this is all about opinion i would stack my system up against any of yours, you would be lying or delusional if you didn't say you at least like it and found it impressive.
On the other hand opinion is what i wanted when i started this,and that is what you have given me at first good toward the end not so seemed more insulting.
in some of your cases why don't you go get a job so you can afford to spend $2000 or more on what you want in that case it is not a waist of money but a investment.
I cant wait to see what you say next

Hello,
I really do not think anyone is insulting your preferred Speakers, Rather, by virtue of being Horn Loaded, they will output high SPL's with very little Amplifier power.

Which brings us to the need for a 200 Watt Amplifier with Speakers that are so efficient that it might not even be possible to use 200 Watts without damaging the Speakers.

While more Speakers are damaged by too little power, Speakers can also be overdriven.

At the end of the day, it is your money. I would think the Emotiva XPA-5 or even the UPA-5 would provide more than enough power and cost far less than 1000 Dollars, Whereas 200x5 Parasound or Anthem Models will cost considerably more if purchased new. The Parasound Halo A51 retails for 4500 Dollars.
Cheers,
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post #63 of 101
8/17/10 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotobird View Post

since the thread is mine i feel i have the right to comment on the attacks as far as my spelling blame my computer I'm blind within 20 inches and the computer dose its best to translate best it can


The fact that you started the thread........does not make it yours.You posted a question and asked for opinion's........whether you like them or not.....you got what you asked for. What happened to the Quads you owned not 3 months ago??

Also, you seem to take offence to anyone that posts something you don't agree with ........ remember this thread??

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=#post18220916

You might want to relax a bit, when asking for people's help on this Forum. The answer's you seek are here my young Padawan........keep an open mind
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post #64 of 101
8/17/10 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Because Klipsch's Horn tweeters really start distorting when pushed hard and really benefit from a good amp to keep them smoother in the upper regions...

That is the reason so many people think that Klipschs are harsh.....

They may be effecient, but that doesn't mean that they won't benefit from an external amp when driven to higher spl's...

Sorry I disagree 100%. What's "pushed hard" anyway? What sounds great "pushed hard"?

These speakers (prior owner here) get nearly insufferably loud on 1 watt of input.

Yes, I watt of input.

And I'm willing to bet an incredibly large sum of money that both you and no one else on AVS can blindly decipher an AVR's watt from a Parasound or Anthem watt with these speakers.

There are no impedance dips, harshness, efficiency challenges with this loudspeaker that requires (or would be solved by) any amplification outside of that provided by a decent, modern AVR.

Matter of fact, IIRC, I (idiotically so) had these playing over 100dbs at ~10 feet with just TEN watts of power, which, after re-visiting their sensitivity figure, sounds just about right.

"harsh" in regards to klipsch almost certainly has much to do with a vast number of their units being fantastically efficient and therefore capable of prodcuing very "harsh" spls with just a handful of power.

just about any sound on earth appears "harsh" when produced at 105dbs, irrespective of its level of fidelity.


James
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post #65 of 101
8/17/10 at 11:20am
I admit my ignornance here. Is Klipsch being critcised, or is the use of horn loaded tweeters being criticised?

If there's something problematical about horn loaded tweeters, what is it? I understand that horns are used to better couple the mechnical vibration of a speaker to the air increasing efficiency. I assume this coupling affects their frequency response a bit. It should fall off on both sides of whatever frequency the horn is tuned for? I would think then, that you tune the horn sort of in the middle of the response range, with the crossover being more important to response at one end, and human hearing before more important to perceived response on the other.

I guess it's not perfect, but neither are speakers.

Anyway, as I said, I know little about the topic. Just curious what the parameters are?
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post #66 of 101
8/17/10 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

Which brings us to the need for a 200 Watt Amplifier with Speakers that are so efficient that it might not even be possible to use 200 Watts without damaging the Speakers.

If he still had his Magnepan 1.6's, he could easily benefit from 200+ wpc. Maybe he's still thinking he needs that kind of power with the Klipsch.

If he's into speaker changing on a regular basis (quad>maggies>klipsch?) I could understand why he might want a high current, robust amp from one of the larger brand names just so he's got it covered
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post #67 of 101
8/17/10 at 11:42am
^ I'm convinced that Klipsch, like Definitive Technology, suffer from a disease yet to be formally named, but, essentially, it's starkly similar to the same condition music bands go through once they've become...

mainstream.

Really it simply becomes "uncool" to appreciate their virtues once they become liked on a widespread basis. How "widespead" that widespread basis needs to be is not easily defined, IMO.

Believe what you want, but you knew full-well as soon as best buy started selling either line that the detractors would multiply by the tens of thousands.

And they did.

It's not to say either brand offer perfect loudspeakers, because they do not. Although you could argue that either offer a bit of unique take on them (DT with their bi-polar offerings and Klipsch with their horns). The point is, that irrespective of a linear, increase, or decrease in product quality, you can rest assured that the product/service/band lol will lose much of its/their appeal as soon as everyone can get a piece of the proverbial pie and the "first-borns" lose their seal of exclusivity.

Further, you can be all-but guaranteed that if the identical products made by Klipsch or DT came out next week under an ID-only moniker their efficiency and bi-polar sound would be touted all over these boards so avidly that we'd have threads numbering in the hundreds within a month, espousing their virtues.


And the exact inverse if Magnepan followed DT and Klispch to BB, even with quality and price unchanged.

sigh, whatever.

James
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post #68 of 101
8/17/10 at 12:22pm
Hello,
Speaking only for myself, I have a great deal of respect for Klipsch. K-Horns, Cornwalls, and La Scala are all Audio Classics.

I also think they are a fantastic choice for those who are on a budget and cannot afford outboard Amplifiers or AVR's with large Amplifier Sections. It is a wonderful thing that a Consumer can get Reference Levels when using Klipschs with a sub 1000 Dollar AVR.

I own Speakers that many here do not care for owing Martin Logan Electrostatic Speakers for my HT. With these Speakers, using an outboard Amplifier is practically compulsory with them dipping below 1 Ohm at the uppermost Frequencies.

Couple that with a relatively narrow Soundstage, high prices, and the fact they usually do not Measure well when Bench Tested and there is definitely some people who really do not like them.

All I can say is if properly setup and given stable Amplification, they sound amazing. At least to me. Unfortunately, the majority of Best Buy/Magnolia HT's that Display the ESL Models (most carry the cheaper non ESL Models) do not set them up properly. Especially in respect to having them setup directly against the Back Wall.
Cheers,
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post #69 of 101
8/17/10 at 12:33pm
Mastermaybe,
I have read that the Klipsch RF's dip down to 3.x ohms? If this is the case an amp would matter unless it is at a frequency that you filter out and cross to the subs which usually have robust amps to handle swings like that.
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post #70 of 101
8/17/10 at 12:51pm
For the handul of watts/current these speakers need for prodigious SPLs, I seriously doubt momentary 3.X impedance sags will cause any problems whatsoever- never did with my Denon AVR that I can recall- but he can likely answer the question for us, as it sounds like he was driving them with an AVR for at least awhile.

James
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post #71 of 101
8/17/10 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

^ I'm convinced that Klipsch, like Definitive Technology, suffer from a disease yet to be formally named, but, essentially, it's starkly similar to the same condition music bands go through once they've become...mainstream.

I'm not sure you meant this as one of those ironies in life but I understand where you're coming from

I've listened to the bipolar DT's yrs ago, being a dipolar kind of guy and they're a very respectable speaker. If it wasn't for a pair of Soundlab 'stat's that 100% blew me away & my experience with Magnepans, I think DT's for HT use would be well worth considering. They do a lot of things well.

It all comes down to personal taste it's not a question of horn drivers & Klipsch's being "bad", it's just that I've developed a taste for a certain kind of sound and the horns I've heard aren't it. I know that many would prefer horns.

Besides Magnepans, the only speakers I've personally listened to that gave me that same magical feeling of being in the room with the performer were Soundlabs, Alon Akarians (not made now), one of the B&W models & $20K KEF References, all of them I can't afford I know there are many other speakers equally capable, but over the yrs, Magnepan gave me the sound I preferred at a price I could afford. The Soundlabs I demo'd were about $3500 in '93, now the same speaker in their line is $20K+. WAY out of my price range!!

My question to the OP was just curiousity why he switched. Maybe I could have worded it better Could be he just prefers horns to the Quad & Maggie type of sound. I was just asking....
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post #72 of 101
8/17/10 at 1:03pm
If I could get Maggies to sound more dynamic then I would use them. Hey, could we build a giant horn and fit the maggie inside, just kidding.
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post #73 of 101
8/17/10 at 1:09pm
I am sure you could build accoustic chambers for electrostatics and such. Why not?
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post #74 of 101
8/17/10 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

I own Speakers that many here do not care for owing Martin Logan Electrostatic Speakers for my HT. With these Speakers, using an outboard Amplifier is practically compulsory with them dipping below 1 Ohm at the uppermost Frequencies.

Couple that with a relatively narrow Soundstage, high prices, and the fact they usually do not Measure well when Bench Tested and there is definitely some people who really do not like them.

All I can say is if properly setup and given stable Amplification, they sound amazing. At least to me. Unfortunately, the majority of Best Buy/Magnolia HT's that Display the ESL Models (most carry the cheaper non ESL Models) do not set them up properly. Especially in respect to having them setup directly against the Back Wall.
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I forgot to add M-L's in my post. I've listened to them too & know where you're coming from

I share your experience that some of the non-specialty stores just don't do a good job setting them up or underpower them with low end AVR's. And that's just a shame.
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post #75 of 101
8/17/10 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

I am sure you could build accoustic chambers for electrostatics and such. Why not?

...because they are a dipole speaker.
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post #76 of 101
8/17/10 at 1:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

If I could get Maggies to sound more dynamic then I would use them. Hey, could we build a giant horn and fit the maggie inside, just kidding.

LOL
Build it and they will come.

And you're right, dynamics is one of their limitations.

Tradeoffs
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post #77 of 101
8/17/10 at 1:58pm
Thread Starter 
ss9001

Oh don't get me wrong the Maggie's were great the quasi ribbon went out
i almost bought the 1.7 to replace them but i was told there was at least a 3-6 month wait and i didn't want to wait i may actually do to the 1.7 to put in another room here in the near future i do however like the dynamics of the klipsch for home cinema
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post #78 of 101
8/17/10 at 2:16pm
Thread Starter 
to answer one question i have 3 rooms that hold speakers Quad in one, kef 1q9 in another and the klipsch in the theater the klipsch do double time in a out door theater that our neighbors gather around on weekends hence the use of more power
also i don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me except when done through insults
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post #79 of 101
8/17/10 at 2:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotobird View Post

ss9001

Oh don't get me wrong the Maggie's were great the quasi ribbon went out
i almost bought the 1.7 to replace them but i was told there was at least a 3-6 month wait and i didn't want to wait i may actually do to the 1.7 to put in another room here in the near future i do however like the dynamics of the klipsch for home cinema

Hense the reason that most responders went on to explain no need for a $2k amp for those Klipsch's. An AVR will do the trick to achieve those same dynamics. Again its your money but I would at least try out the Emotiva UPA7or even the XPA5 for what they cost to see if you do notice a difference in the sound. IMO you do not need to spend $2000 for this application. The Emo's can be returned if you don't like them or notice a difference. Very good people to deal with from everything I've read. You can always add them to another system if you so choose. Or to further power a different zone. Good luck with whatever you choose.
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post #80 of 101
8/17/10 at 3:36pm
Thread Starter 
ss9001

a friend put my computer together for me software runs in the background for me so i don't need to worry about it i know it wont affect windows like programs i have had in the past voice recognition works pretty well works for me and my wife.
i will check with him to see what was loaded.
as you can tell it is not perfect and it will piss off some people when they see miss spelling
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post #81 of 101
8/17/10 at 3:41pm
^^^

had you not made your initial uncalled for comment, and followed it up with a response that was essentially "stick it in your ear", your spelling never would have been brought up....

he who casts the first stone...
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post #82 of 101
8/17/10 at 4:40pm
Thread Starter 
ccotenj

He who cast the first stone fine
did I cast the first stone if that is the way you look at it so be it
it seems people. Seem to think spending more money then they would on a piece of gear is a waist of money .
If they elect not to for one reason or another it doesn't make those of us who can or do fools just like some one who spends $20,000-$30,000 on sp a fool i wish i could personally i cant hear the difference.
200w to amplify my klipsch may not seem justified until you hear the difference
these sp are rated to handle 800w if it wouldn't make a difference then manufactures wouldn't make sp to handle it.
Do i crank my sp yes at times but good quality amps make a difference at all volumns
not just at stadium level
As for my education Laval or personal handicap you force it to the for front
obviously it more of a problem for you to accept then me i did not insult your intelligence
as for my comment to get a job well that is how i pay my bills and buy my toys if that offends you so sorry.
have you looked at the rate of unemployment go get a job and pay for what you want
that is the American way not hand outs .
as far as power goes you could drive a 4 cylinder or v8 again a choice vw, corvette
Oh such fun !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #83 of 101
8/17/10 at 4:47pm
^^^

ok, dude, good luck... as you are gonna need it...
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post #84 of 101
8/17/10 at 4:52pm
Thread Starter 
thanks but not necessary
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post #85 of 101
8/17/10 at 5:13pm
Hi sotobird

I've gotten to know chris ccotenj on this forum for several yrs. Sometimes he'll tease & verbally joust with people but not to be malicious. I know this because he's teased me about being a luddite (stuck in the past with old technology) yet also did me a nice personal favor, for which I'm still impressed with. So I know he's really an OK guy

So, take his post at face value...he's just messing with you. You should try to roll with it & not let it get to you.

He must be having a slow week because he usually reserves & posts for Fridays!
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post #86 of 101
8/17/10 at 5:17pm
Thread Starter 
ss9001

good to know
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post #87 of 101
8/17/10 at 5:33pm
Hello,
I truly think all of us who have contributed to this Thread are coming from the place of truly trying to help you. You are in a rare situation where you have Speakers that simply do not need anywhere near 200 WPC to play at levels that will cause Hearing Damage.

That being said, perhaps you might choose different Speakers in the future where having a high power Amplifier would be advantageous. So for 2000 Dollars, you might be able to get a Parasound Dealer to discount a 5250 to meet your budget. (2500 MSRP) If you expand your search to used, you can find the Halo A51 sometimes for close to 2000 Dollars. The A51's MSRP is 4500 Dollars and far out of your stated budget. The A51 does have a more robust Power Supply and much fancier Industrial Design. Moreover, the A51 has XLR (Balanced Connections)

I am not to up to date of Anthem's offerings so I will defer to others on them.
They do make a quality Product all the same.
Cheers,
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post #88 of 101
8/17/10 at 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Hi sotobird

I've gotten to know chris ccotenj on this forum for several yrs. Sometimes he'll tease & verbally joust with people but not to be malicious. I know this because he's teased me about being a luddite (stuck in the past with old technology) yet also did me a nice personal favor, for which I'm still impressed with. So I know he's really an OK guy

So, take his post at face value...he's just messing with you. You should try to roll with it & not let it get to you.

He must be having a slow week because he usually reserves & posts for Fridays!

So true. Chris is a stand up guy. He will help you all you can. It seems in this case there has been a small mis-communication between the two of you. One small comment turns into a minor word contest. He will help you if you let him and he can help with a lot of things. I feel at this time he doesn't realize you are using a speech program on your computer, but will come around sooner than later. You two need to kiss and make up. We are all here to learn more about this hobby and thats all it is. A hobby, albeit an expensive one. I still say though that horns are for trucks,tugboats and the like. Enjoy your Klipsch's sotobird they are good speakers, and this is all in fun.
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post #89 of 101
8/17/10 at 5:58pm
Thread Starter 
I appreciate all your inputs i close my part in this. In the end i purchased the amp i wanted and find this was one interesting endeavor in communication.
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post #90 of 101
8/17/10 at 6:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotobird View Post

I appreciate all your inputs i close my part in this. In the end i purchased the amp i wanted and find this was one interesting endeavor in communication.

Was that the MCA 50?
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