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Star Trek TNG Seasons Remastered on Blu-Ray - Page 50

post #1471 of 2431
Thanks for the comparison, that is the only possible blunder I can think of on top of my head. Or someone fell asleep or got drunk extracting the academy aperture, but I doubt it. They are in all probability, doing both the wide and square masters at the same time, so they may have mixed up specs.
post #1472 of 2431
It will be interesting to see if Sins Of The Father is corrected in the S03 set. Or if other episodes in the series exhibit this.
post #1473 of 2431
Was this confirmed a mistake? Or are we just guessing it was not a decision they made?
post #1474 of 2431
How do you mean, "confirmed"? As in, x amount of keyboard warriors say it's a mistake (see LOTR and TF3 3D) so it must be?
post #1475 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

How do you mean, "confirmed"? As in, x amount of keyboard warriors say it's a mistake (see LOTR and TF3 3D) so it must be?

Thought so.
post #1476 of 2431
Out of curiosity I picked up the Blu-Ray sampler of TNG.

I'd rarely been impressed with that show when it was on (despite being somewhat of a fan of the original series) but wanted to give it a whirl in Hi-Def. I chose to watch Encounter At Far Point because it is apparently a well regarded episode.

My first impression (viewing on my projection based home theater) was "Wow, it looks great." The experience is pretty close to watching the improvements in the original series Blu-Rays, though not quite as impressive overall in terms of clarity and vividness. The sound was clear but a bit thin and a tad bright, at least for the music tracks (horns especially).

But experiencing the image on a large projection screen, with such clarity and detail, really enriched the experience to begin with. I had the sense of being on the deck with the crew.

But then...alas...disappointment sets in. I experienced the same eye-roll-and-groan-inducing elements as I remember from when it was first on.
There was the general blandness to the show to begin with (lighting, acting etc). And then "Q" showed up. Ugh. I'd forgotten how that character just never rubbed me the right way. He's supposed to a surprising, whimsical, clever figure who is never any of those things and strikes me as strained and annoying as hell. Not a good start to my getting into the show.

By the time it got to the crew being put on trial by Q I just couldn't really fool myself anymore: I could not get into this stuff. It was goofy, not particularly smart sci-fi (though with pretensions in both the acting and subject matter that it was dealing with weighty themes, that are so ear-worn they make no impact whatsoever - gee the human race has really bad elements, but ALSO very noble elements as well! I'm not sure I've ever heard any DIFFERENT sci-fi show "take home lesson" than that one regarding the human condition). No sense of real threat, danger, goofy costumes etc.

And yet, I can accept all of that in the original series somehow. I think it's because the original series is often photographed and lit more cinematically, but mostly because I love the performances of Shatner and Nimoy in most of the shows.

I'll try another show to see if anything grabs me. But at least the new shows look great and real fans of TNG are in for such a treat.
post #1477 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Out of curiosity I picked up the Blu-Ray sampler of TNG.

I'd rarely been impressed with that show when it was on (despite being somewhat of a fan of the original series) but wanted to give it a whirl in Hi-Def. I chose to watch Encounter At Far Point because it is apparently a well regarded episode.

My first impression (viewing on my projection based home theater) was "Wow, it looks great." The experience is pretty close to watching the improvements in the original series Blu-Rays, though not quite as impressive overall in terms of clarity and vividness. The sound was clear but a bit thin and a tad bright, at least for the music tracks (horns especially).

But experiencing the image on a large projection screen, with such clarity and detail, really enriched the experience to begin with. I had the sense of being on the deck with the crew.

But then...alas...disappointment sets in. I experienced the same eye-roll-and-groan-inducing elements as I remember from when it was first on.
There was the general blandness to the show to begin with (lighting, acting etc). And then "Q" showed up. Ugh. I'd forgotten how that character just never rubbed me the right way. He's supposed to a surprising, whimsical, clever figure who is never any of those things and strikes me as strained and annoying as hell. Not a good start to my getting into the show.

By the time it got to the crew being put on trial by Q I just couldn't really fool myself anymore: I could not get into this stuff. It was goofy, not particularly smart sci-fi (though with pretensions in both the acting and subject matter that it was dealing with weighty themes, that are so ear-worn they make no impact whatsoever - gee the human race has really bad elements, but ALSO very noble elements as well! I'm not sure I've ever heard any DIFFERENT sci-fi show "take home lesson" than that one regarding the human condition). No sense of real threat, danger, goofy costumes etc.

And yet, I can accept all of that in the original series somehow. I think it's because the original series is often photographed and lit more cinematically, but mostly because I love the performances of Shatner and Nimoy in most of the shows.

I'll try another show to see if anything grabs me. But at least the new shows look great and real fans of TNG are in for such a treat.

When Roddenberry was alive the show was may more miss than it was hit
post #1478 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

When Roddenberry was alive the show was may more miss than it was hit

And according to David Gerrold, Roddenberry's lawyer Leonard Maizlish was re-writing the teleplays during season one:

Quote:


Part of the problem on TNG was Gene’s lawyer (Leonard Maizlish) was making it impossible for anybody to do any real work. He was rewriting scripts. He was committing Guild violations. People were very unhappy. It was one of the worst working environments I'd ever been in.

http://www.startrek.com/article/trek...ks-back-part-2
post #1479 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I chose to watch Encounter At Far Point because it is apparently a well regarded episode.

Well regarded by who? As a huge fan of all Trek (bar Voyager), I can say it's a TERRIBLE episode, much like everything in Season 1. It's so embarrasing, it's a miracle they ever got the chance to make a second season. I watched a random Season 3 episode the other day (Hollow Pursuits), and it's like a completely different show.
post #1480 of 2431
yeah, but season one has Troy wearing a skirt
post #1481 of 2431
Rich, give Inner Light a go. It's by far the best episode we've been able to see so far in high definition, and it's on my all time top 10 list of TNG episodes, and so much more representative of the best the show has to offer. I am a fan of the show, and I absolutely agree that the first season was pretty terrible. My brother had a good point--the show didn't start getting really good until they went to the 2-piece uniforms with collars.

As for the SotF framing, was it a mistake or intentional? We don't know yet, but we can definitely see that it's changed. Is it a deal-breaker type of change? Not necessarily for me, but I'd prefer the DVD framing unless there's a technical reason why they couldn't use it. Perhaps we'll get some information about it from a Trek site if they pick up on this discrepancy too.
post #1482 of 2431
Thanks for the recommendation, Jamie. I'll try that episode tonight.
post #1483 of 2431
What is confirmed is that the framing was changed. Is it a mistake, or intentional? This we don't know.
post #1484 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdvision View Post

What is confirmed is that the framing was changed. Is it a mistake, or intentional? This we don't know.

I'm starting to wonder if it even matters anymore. Heck, Transformers DOTM 3D's brightness issue is a most likely a mistake yet many here on the forum don't seem to mind/care/see it, or whatever. Michael Bay comes out saying that whatever was done in the 3D Blu-ray was intentional, so in the end how are we meant to know what the heck is going on? On the other hand, the lack of communication from Warner Brothers and PJ regarding FOTR EE leaves us up in the air with that one too.

Same with this TNG framing - if it wasn't pointed out to watchers it is unlikely they would even know about it or realise it unless they had watched the DVD's so many times that the exact DVD picture was ingrained in their brain and they would notice such a difference.
post #1485 of 2431
I bet if Leonardo da Vinci were alive today, he could point out some mistakes he made on the Mona Lisa. The fact remains that 99.9% of viewers don't care or won't care, so why spend millions of dollars correcting an issue that only a handful of people even care about?

The way I see it, the final release will:

1. Be corrected back to the original zoom
2. Stay the same as it is now with no explanation
3. Stay the same as it is now with a comment about intent

I'm hoping for #1, but betting on #2. Either way... is it really that distracting?
post #1486 of 2431
Also who that owns a blu ray player even watches on an old monitor with overscan issues anyways?
post #1487 of 2431
Most (all?) modern HDTVs still have overscan set on by default, usually around 3-5%.
post #1488 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post

Most (all?) modern HDTVs still have overscan set on by default, usually around 3-5%.

Gotcha. Just read up on it.
Why would anyone keep it that way though? Anyone who cares about their set should be able to adjust that.
I have only had front projectors the past 6 years and none of them were that way by default.
post #1489 of 2431
I don't like the way overscan was handled on LCD tvs. They continued to do it because 4:3 broadcast was still being watched and still had carrier garbage at the top of the screen.
post #1490 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

Gotcha. Just read up on it.
Why would anyone keep it that way though? Anyone who cares about their set should be able to adjust that.
I have only had front projectors the past 6 years and none of them were that way by default.

All the TVs I've come across in the last five years have had overscan enabled as default.

I switched off overscan on my living room plasma, but whenever I watch a VHS-rip or something I have to turn it on again.

My Plasma in the TV-room doesn't let you switch off overscan.
post #1491 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_danger View Post

I bet if Leonardo da Vinci were alive today, he could point out some mistakes he made on the Mona Lisa.... Either way... is it really that distracting?

I couldn't agree more! I am very happy that they are going back to the film and keeping any recreations faithful. I am beyond happy that they aren't over DNRing it. I'm also glad that they are keeping it 4:3. I think the few wet rags on here who expect perfection forget that this show was originally made during the days of SD NTSC when stereo and surround sound was barely common on TV. They NEVER thought that they'd see it presented nearly prestine warts and all in HD.
post #1492 of 2431
Actually I never watched the show because all the masters were piss poor. I had all the DVDs and gave them away. I knew this would come one day. The original presentation is as unacceptable today as it was 24 years ago.

It doesn't mean the new one must have some defaults. But then this is a sampler. I'm betting when the corrected version comes out, this one will be worth big bucks.
post #1493 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

By the time it got to the crew being put on trial by Q I just couldn't really fool myself anymore: I could not get into this stuff. It was goofy, not particularly smart sci-fi (though with pretensions in both the acting and subject matter that it was dealing with weighty themes, that are so ear-worn they make no impact whatsoever - gee the human race has really bad elements, but ALSO very noble elements as well!

Even though I had been a fan of the old series since it first went into syndication, I was horribly disappointed by the first few episodes of TNG and never watched it again. What I found worse than the goofy sci fi elements was the lack of chemistry between the characters. They did not in any way appear to be a working crew on a mission following orders according to a protocol. They appeared to be actors saying lines at each other and sometimes shouting lines like Shakespearean actors. It didn't feel I was looking at a craft in outer space. I was looking at a stage with actors standing around a bunch of sci fi sets.

This was painfully clear in just the second episode when they remade the classic episode "The Naked Time" by eliminating all the tension and emotion that made the original so gripping (the sci fi element wasn't that interesting). I couldn't believe they were already so lost for new ideas that they had no choice but to remake a previous episode.

I might be interested in renting a disc or two on Blu-ray when it comes out but I don't think my opinion will be any different twenty five years later.
post #1494 of 2431
I'm just amazed at the level of visual detail in the production of the show, detail that never showed through in standard television broadcast, but they took the time to put all that detail in there anyway. It really shows how much they loved making this show.
post #1495 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdvision View Post

Actually I never watched the show because all the masters were piss poor. I had all the DVDs and gave them away. I knew this would come one day. The original presentation is as unacceptable today as it was 24 years ago.

You had the DVDs 24 years ago?

First run it looked like a well produced NTSC TV show with great FX and pretty decent MTS stereo surround. I don't know what your standards were for TV watching but I'd like for you to name a show broadcast in 1987 that looked much better.
post #1496 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post

Even though I had been a fan of the old series since it first went into syndication, I was horribly disappointed by the first few episodes of TNG and never watched it again. What I found worse than the goofy sci fi elements was the lack of chemistry between the characters. They did not in any way appear to be a working crew on a mission following orders according to a protocol. They appeared to be actors saying lines at each other and sometimes shouting lines like Shakespearean actors. It didn't feel I was looking at a craft in outer space. I was looking at a stage with actors standing around a bunch of sci fi sets.

The fact that it ran a full 7 seasons, went on to films, had 2 different spinoffs didn't make you wonder perhaps you'd judged it a bit too soon?

Quote:


This was painfully clear in just the second episode when they remade the classic episode "The Naked Time" by eliminating all the tension and emotion that made the original so gripping (the sci fi element wasn't that interesting). I couldn't believe they were already so lost for new ideas that they had no choice but to remake a previous episode.

SEQUEL. Not remake. They mention what happened in the original episode even.

Quote:


I might be interested in renting a disc or two on Blu-ray when it comes out but I don't think my opinion will be any different twenty five years later.

There are numerous episode guides out there. Everyone knows the first 2 seasons were on shaky ground, but by the third season the show hit its stride and by the 4th was must-watch television. But even in the first 2 seasons there were gems like 11001001, Conspiracy, Q-Who, The Measure of A Man, etc.
post #1497 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post

This was painfully clear in just the second episode when they remade the classic episode "The Naked Time" by eliminating all the tension and emotion that made the original so gripping (the sci fi element wasn't that interesting). I couldn't believe they were already so lost for new ideas that they had no choice but to remake a previous episode.

LOL yeah that sh*t is terrible. As someone else pointed out, there was some BS with Roddenberry's attorney rewriting scripts... but I take that with a grain of salt. Everyone tries to pass the buck when they can.

Season One suffered from several factors not limited to lackluster scripts, TOS remakes sequels, and some poor chemistry. Season Two was OK except for the removal of Crusher... not that I think Pulaski was bad, but it wasn't until Season Three that things really started to gel. And they got rid of those ugly uniforms with the colored piping. From there on out, things just got better and better.

I just hope they stick with OAR and either original framing or open up a little to academy framing. If your display can't turn deactivate overscan, get a new one.
post #1498 of 2431
Again with the corrected talk!
post #1499 of 2431
For the record, I'm not complaining about the framing change per se, I'd just like to hear an explanation about why they did it (assuming it was an intentional change).
post #1500 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Out of curiosity I picked up the Blu-Ray sampler of TNG.

I'd rarely been impressed with that show when it was on (despite being somewhat of a fan of the original series) but wanted to give it a whirl in Hi-Def. I chose to watch Encounter At Far Point because it is apparently a well regarded episode.

My first impression (viewing on my projection based home theater) was "Wow, it looks great." The experience is pretty close to watching the improvements in the original series Blu-Rays, though not quite as impressive overall in terms of clarity and vividness. The sound was clear but a bit thin and a tad bright, at least for the music tracks (horns especially).

But experiencing the image on a large projection screen, with such clarity and detail, really enriched the experience to begin with. I had the sense of being on the deck with the crew.

But then...alas...disappointment sets in. I experienced the same eye-roll-and-groan-inducing elements as I remember from when it was first on.
There was the general blandness to the show to begin with (lighting, acting etc). And then "Q" showed up. Ugh. I'd forgotten how that character just never rubbed me the right way. He's supposed to a surprising, whimsical, clever figure who is never any of those things and strikes me as strained and annoying as hell. Not a good start to my getting into the show.

By the time it got to the crew being put on trial by Q I just couldn't really fool myself anymore: I could not get into this stuff. It was goofy, not particularly smart sci-fi (though with pretensions in both the acting and subject matter that it was dealing with weighty themes, that are so ear-worn they make no impact whatsoever - gee the human race has really bad elements, but ALSO very noble elements as well! I'm not sure I've ever heard any DIFFERENT sci-fi show "take home lesson" than that one regarding the human condition). No sense of real threat, danger, goofy costumes etc.

And yet, I can accept all of that in the original series somehow. I think it's because the original series is often photographed and lit more cinematically, but mostly because I love the performances of Shatner and Nimoy in most of the shows.

I'll try another show to see if anything grabs me. But at least the new shows look great and real fans of TNG are in for such a treat.

I think many TNG fans will acknowledge that the show was slow out the gate. Things didn't REALLY pick up until season 3 ( 3-6 are generally considered the 'prime seasons'). If you were lukewarm on TNG before, Encounter at Farpoint certainly won't change your mind( though in my opinion it's worth a viewing simply for the fact that it's the very first episode). Sins of the father, OTOH, is an excellent episode that IMO ranks among the best of the series.
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