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Star Trek TNG Seasons Remastered on Blu-Ray - Page 65

post #1921 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

Yesterday I received a response to my email from 2 days ago asking for all of my information for disc replacement.

I got a response email today. I'm contemplating whether to reply that I already phoned it in and just send the info to make sure they have the correct info or just ignore the email.
post #1922 of 2431
I called last night, instead of emailing, to get the replacement discs. A person answered immediately and asked for one of the disc id numbers, mailing address, etc. A real person answering the phone on the second ring was a nice suprise. I was expecting an automated phone queue to navigate through and then some hold time.
post #1923 of 2431
I simply did the email thing. I'm always uneasy about reading my address and email over the phone, as I have had people get them wrong in the past. I prefer it to be in writing, and I have a copy of the email. I emailed my disc # to them last night.
post #1924 of 2431
I called last night also but had to wait five minutes with automated apologies every minute, so don't everyone think you will be as lucky as Ben. That said, once the guy answered it was quick, to the point and professional. I have no complaints either. Looking forwarded to when they send these out after the 10th. smile.gif
post #1925 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otter0911 View Post

I think "Firefly"

Yep

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post

I think you mean Far scape...?

Nope firefly, my bad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Tack View Post

I believe Firefly on Blu-ray = HD, but is upscaled when there are effects and Farscape on Blu-ray = everything is upscaled.

Yep effects upscaled like b5 would be
post #1926 of 2431
I notice at the end of the opening titles, the credit to Gene Roddenberry is inconsistent. Sometimes it's "Executive Producer Gene Roddenberry" and other times, it's "Created by Gene Roddenberry." I think the credit was supposed to be "Executive Producer" through season 5, and then "Created by" from season 6 until the end. Can anyone vouch for that?
post #1927 of 2431
Something I was going to ask about the whole remastering process. Now Star Trek has gone through the painstaking process of creating the effects from scratch. Do you believe that other studios will do the same? Or will they upscale the effects? Most of the shows I wish to see remastered for Blu-ray are from Fox. Not sure if they've ever done any major remastering projects before and how they handled the effects.
post #1928 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnetite View Post

Something I was going to ask about the whole remastering process. Now Star Trek has gone through the painstaking process of creating the effects from scratch. Do you believe that other studios will do the same? Or will they upscale the effects? Most of the shows I wish to see remastered for Blu-ray are from Fox. Not sure if they've ever done any major remastering projects before and how they handled the effects.

I'm guessing that depends on sales of this set and the predicted cost vs sales ratio of doing the same for other series. It costs a lot to recreate the effects as opposed to simply upscaling the existing footage. No company will do that if they don't expect to make up the difference. Many companies don't even finish releasing series that don't sell well.
Edited by Morac - 8/6/12 at 7:24am
post #1929 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnetite View Post

Something I was going to ask about the whole remastering process. Now Star Trek has gone through the painstaking process of creating the effects from scratch. Do you believe that other studios will do the same? Or will they upscale the effects? Most of the shows I wish to see remastered for Blu-ray are from Fox. Not sure if they've ever done any major remastering projects before and how they handled the effects.

It seems unlikely that shows outside of the Star Trek ones would be likely candidates if they were edited and composited in SD (videotape). I mean, how many other shows have that sort of fan base? Unfortunately many shows in the 80's and 90's were done that way I think. If you're talking about The X-Files, I believe it's in the same category as TNG in terms of having to back to original film elements (if they even exist) and re-editing everything and possibly more. I'm not sure there'd be enough sales of The X-Files on Blu-ray to make it worth it, but I could be wrong. I don't recall that many effects that would need to be recomposited, so maybe that helps. What shows are you referring to?
post #1930 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Tack View Post

What shows are you referring to?

Simpsons, 24, or Futurama.

Those were some of Fox's more popular shows. Not like they were niche shows or anything with little interest.
post #1931 of 2431
ER next as it's already done then
post #1932 of 2431
It took them 2 days to answer my email. They asked for the disc id's and my shipping info.
post #1933 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnetite View Post

Simpsons, 24, or Futurama.
Those were some of Fox's more popular shows. Not like they were niche shows or anything with little interest.

Animated stuff I assume wouldn't have effects or compositing issues. But I don't know how the earlier seasons were transferred or edited.

But 24 started in 2001 and I'm guessing was produced for HD to begin with. I believe it was broadcast in HD from the beginning, so there'd be no extra effort required for that one I wouldn't think.
post #1934 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Tack View Post

Animated stuff I assume wouldn't have effects or compositing issues. But I don't know how the earlier seasons were transferred or edited.
But 24 started in 2001 and I'm guessing was produced for HD to begin with. I believe it was broadcast in HD from the beginning, so there'd be no extra effort required for that one I wouldn't think.

Simpsons was shot on film in the earlier seasons. Perhaps digitally later on. Futurama, not sure, but I scanned one of the episodes and it said it was film based, so it must be as well. They were both edited on video tape though.
Quote:
I'm not sure there'd be enough sales of The X-Files on Blu-ray to make it worth it, but I could be wrong

X-Files highest rated season had 19 million viewers. Although they might say they won't make enough money to justify the cost, they won't know that until people actually buy it. People make up statistics and say that it's expected to sell x number of [product] in the next few years, but until it actually happens, it's all just speculation. I'd say, if they want to see whether it'll sell, do what Star Trek did. Release a few episodes in HD and see if anyone buys it. If it's popular, then do the rest of the series.
Edited by magnetite - 8/4/12 at 10:13pm
post #1935 of 2431
Simpsons seasons 14-19 (and a couple of earlier episodes) were composited and edited in SD. Redoing all that in HD would be far more trouble than the Star Trek or Seinfeld remasters and would require them to still have all the original art somewhere. Same goes for Futurama pre-cancellation. Pre-season 14 Simpsons I'm not clear on. They were shot on film and mastered to video, but I don't know if the film sources were preserved (particularly for the early seasons) and how much was actually done on film -- it wasn't actually uncommon for traditionally animated TV shows to be edited on film, in which case all they'd have to do is rescan it and maybe redo text overlays (credits, captions, etc.). But I can't find any details on the post-production process for older Simpsons seasons, so I don't know if that applies here. The DVDs just reused the broadcast masters.
post #1936 of 2431
I don't know how many shows pose the unique problem that a show like Star Trek poses in terms of the F/X added after filming.

Cartoons on film are easy to go back and rescan for more resolution... same with any old TV show that didn't have extra special effects. Even a show edited on videotape like TNG, as long as there were no F/X work, at least they are proving they can re-edit if the money in sales is there to justify the work.

Star Trek, Firefly, and those types of shows show on film but have F/X added later... usually the F/X wasn't rendered in HD or higher because why would they? Star Trek has had new effects... Firefly went with upscaling. Firefly wasn't heavy on the F/X though, so it doesn't show as much there honestly... but Star Trek would jump off the screen at you with low-res effects atop the shiny HD film... so they are forced to do new effects for these.

Most TV shows, though, wouldn't require this kind of re-work to make HD as long as they were shot (and preferably edited too) on film.

Twilight Zone (Except for the handful of videotaped episodes) is a good example... the upcoming Dick Van Dyke show too... and I'm surprised I Love Lucy hasn't shown up on Blu-ray yet.
post #1937 of 2431
Exactly, there are always going to be issues and missing footage here and there.
The live episode of ER comes to mind.
Plus how many tv shows had the elements kept?
post #1938 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morac View Post

I'm guessing that depends on sales of this set and the predicted cost vs sales ratio of doing the same for other series. It costs a lot to recreate the effects as opposed to simply upscaling the existing footage. No company will do that if they don't expect to make up the different. Many companies don't even finish releasing series that don't sell well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

I don't know how many shows pose the unique problem that a show like Star Trek poses in terms of the F/X added after filming.
Cartoons on film are easy to go back and rescan for more resolution... same with any old TV show that didn't have extra special effects. Even a show edited on videotape like TNG, as long as there were no F/X work, at least they are proving they can re-edit if the money in sales is there to justify the work.
Star Trek, Firefly, and those types of shows show on film but have F/X added later... usually the F/X wasn't rendered in HD or higher because why would they? Star Trek has had new effects... Firefly went with upscaling. Firefly wasn't heavy on the F/X though, so it doesn't show as much there honestly... but Star Trek would jump off the screen at you with low-res effects atop the shiny HD film... so they are forced to do new effects for these.
Most TV shows, though, wouldn't require this kind of re-work to make HD as long as they were shot (and preferably edited too) on film.
Twilight Zone (Except for the handful of videotaped episodes) is a good example... the upcoming Dick Van Dyke show too... and I'm surprised I Love Lucy hasn't shown up on Blu-ray yet.
It should be pointed out that there's a difference in recreating the effects and recompositing them.

Star Trek: TNG shot nearly all their effects on film, especially in the early seasons. Only certain things like the phaser beams, warp effects, etc. had to be recreated due to them being creating in the video environment. That's far different than show where the effects were all created in the video world and higher resolution versions of the elements (like models) simply don't exist. In the case of TNG, they were still using physical models and creating FX plates in front of the camera since CGI wasn't quite ready to fully take over at the start of the series.
post #1939 of 2431
[
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

. In the case of TNG, they were still using physical models and creating FX plates in front of the camera since CGI wasn't quite ready to fully take over at the start of the series.
Interesting point. I believe it was DS9 that was the first to start doing CGI effects. If that's the case, was the output resolution enough for HD (even 720p), or did they just do the minimum for SD? If the later, DS9 and Voyager are going to be a long time coming as they are not only going to require complete re-editing and compositing, but all of the CGI creation required for TOS. And I'm not sure either of those series justify the expense. Maybe restoration of the live action film with up-res EFX just for preservation as the quality was far better than TNG, while they still have the staff and assembly line up and running. Despite Statements to the contrary, I doubt CBS will just abandon TNG, or even DS9 and Voyager considering the years of syndication and DVD sales they will generate. It is decidedly an investment toward the future of a major franchise unlike any other in the world, except maybe The Smosons.

REGARDING THE SIMPSONS:

Fox has already released one season on BD. They have a guaranteed 5 seasons total of HD, which is more than most series, so literally they could sell just those 5 seasons for a while without ever thinking about remastering the first 19 seasons. In any event the BD sales of the last 5 seasons will do a lot to inform them how big an investment they should make in the franchise. Like ST eventually they will do it because it is such a worldwide phenomenon. Combine with the possibility the early seasons are on film and it will be a long time before they have to touch the SD only material. But honestly, I would be surprised if they only shot 14-19 on SD media. Considering all the future proofing that had been going on since the mid-90s, I would expect at a minimum that the original artwork was shot in HD, or better, then finished in SD.
Edited by Mac128 - 8/5/12 at 2:14pm
post #1940 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by smiley1701 View Post

I just finished watching the episode "Justice" and at 9 minutes 15Secs into the episode I did notice that one of the voices did echo around several speakers at the front only lasted a few seconds, but it was there.
Curious as its not one of the episodes listed.
When the away team enters the council chamber for the 1st time and Laor Says "Enjoy What we have"
It is distracting

Confirmed! It's very concerning that Disc 2 is not being offered for replacement. This is *not* just an issue of strange reverb or acoustics during the original recording. The dialogue has fragmented bits that rise to full volume in the Left channel, while most of it is in the center channel. The woman who speaks just before this line also has strange dissonant doubling of her line. Compare to the original stereo track and the difference is very clear. It's very brief but still a serious error.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Partyslammer View Post

During the episode "Justice", the "echo" noted by poster "smiley1701" is actually due to the poor acoustics of the indoor hall set and can be heard to varying degrees on all scenes filmed on that particular set. It is noticeable on the old dvd release as well.

This is not due to acoustics: it is a multi-channel mixing error. Compare to the 2-channel DD mix and the difference is extremely clear. It's possible it originates in the 5.1 mix from the old DVD release (I don't have access to test this), but the point is that audio that should remain in the center channel has fragmentary portions that shift suddenly into the left channel as well, during the line smiley1701 mentions. This is not just some reverb, but actual full dialogue sound, accidentally mixed into the left channel for a brief moment, as if some panning automation got left on that track by accident. There are no wild shifts of panning evident in the 2-channel DD mix, although I agree that the recording itself has echo/bad acoustics. The acoustics of the original recording shouldn't cause dialogue to shift suddenly outside the center channel!
post #1941 of 2431
One more reason to skip the 7.1 upmix nonsense and just give us original lossless stereo. Save more space for the encode. tongue.gif
post #1942 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post

One more reason to skip the 7.1 upmix nonsense and just give us original lossless stereo. Save more space for the encode. tongue.gif

I have a 7.1 speaker set up at home and I have yet to find any compelling reason to have anything in 7.1 sound, let alone something that was upmixed to 7.1.
post #1943 of 2431
Yeah, I have to admit... I have a 7.1 system... but I don't see a lot of value in re-mixing things that were not originally 7.1... because unlike the HD transfers, where there was more detail on the film than we originally saw on TV... there is no more audio than they originally recorded... so if all they recorded was a 2-channel stereo, any 5.1 or 7.1 mix is "guesswork" even if it is good re-mixing.
post #1944 of 2431
I don't mean for this to devolve into a discussion on the "merits" of upmixing; merely that at this point, on this release, it seems to be more trouble than it's worth. The lossless stereo of the sampler disc was wonderful. Please, CBS, do it right on Season 2.
post #1945 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

... so if all they recorded was a 2-channel stereo, any 5.1 or 7.1 mix is "guesswork" even if it is good re-mixing.
What exactly did they do here? I assumed they went back to the original multi-track audio tapes and spent a couple of days on a dubbing stage for each episode re-mixing, just like finishing a normal episode of something. that's really the only way to do a reasonable 7.1 mix. And of course, it would be all subjective since it would be a spatial reinterpretation. TV sound mixing pros are so practiced, and TV standards so ridgid, that the general levels would turn out almost identically to the originals, even without a reference track. In fact they would likely turn out better than the originals, in much the same way that the new CGI effects have been improved.

Even if they only went back to the M&E tracks, there would still be enough material to make discrete choices with dialogue, most effects, and especially music.
post #1946 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post

I don't mean for this to devolve into a discussion on the "merits" of upmixing; merely that at this point, on this release, it seems to be more trouble than it's worth. The lossless stereo of the sampler disc was wonderful. Please, CBS, do it right on Season 2.

Count me as another for a move to 5.1 and uncompressed DD if they want to do the sound upconvert at all. 7.1 is overkill and using valuable space that the lossless original tracks and video could use.

I also want them to move to one more disc in the season sets, but fat chance there.
post #1947 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Average View Post

Simpsons seasons 14-19 (and a couple of earlier episodes) were composited and edited in SD.

I'm really only interested in Seasons 1-9. Later seasons which may have been done in SD I'm not big on.
Edited by magnetite - 8/6/12 at 1:46pm
post #1948 of 2431
I noticed that Amazon completely pulled it just here recently (I had it in my cart) and it's listed as 9 to 11 days. Before it was available but had a warning of sorts about the audio issue. So I'm hoping that means they recalled it in some way, usually if they run out of stock it switches to a different seller or gives a warning but this didn't do that it just went straight to completely unavailable.
post #1949 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mischaflix View Post

Confirmed! It's very concerning that Disc 2 is not being offered for replacement. This is *not* just an issue of strange reverb or acoustics during the original recording. The dialogue has fragmented bits that rise to full volume in the Left channel, while most of it is in the center channel. The woman who speaks just before this line also has strange dissonant doubling of her line. Compare to the original stereo track and the difference is very clear. It's very brief but still a serious error.
This is not due to acoustics: it is a multi-channel mixing error. Compare to the 2-channel DD mix and the difference is extremely clear. It's possible it originates in the 5.1 mix from the old DVD release (I don't have access to test this), but the point is that audio that should remain in the center channel has fragmentary portions that shift suddenly into the left channel as well, during the line smiley1701 mentions. This is not just some reverb, but actual full dialogue sound, accidentally mixed into the left channel for a brief moment, as if some panning automation got left on that track by accident. There are no wild shifts of panning evident in the 2-channel DD mix, although I agree that the recording itself has echo/bad acoustics. The acoustics of the original recording shouldn't cause dialogue to shift suddenly outside the center channel!

I noticed that too, thankfully it's very brief.

Watched Haven yesterday, and as soon as the ****ed up dialogue kicked in I switched to the 2.0 track, but even that track has some TERRIBLE phasing errors for a minute or two as Picard records one of his logs. His voice starts coming straight out of the rear speakers and seems to bounce around the sound stage at random. That brief problem aiside, the 2.0 tracks - all 192 kbps of them - would do me just fine going forward. They sound great decoded using Neo 6 or DPLIIx, and they expose the 7.1 mixes for the wastes of space that they are.
post #1950 of 2431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

I noticed that too, thankfully it's very brief.
Watched Haven yesterday, and as soon as the ****ed up dialogue kicked in I switched to the 2.0 track, but even that track has some TERRIBLE phasing errors for a minute or two as Picard records one of his logs. His voice starts coming straight out of the rear speakers and seems to bounce around the sound stage at random. That brief problem aiside, the 2.0 tracks - all 192 kbps of them - would do me just fine going forward. They sound great decoded using Neo 6 or DPLIIx, and they expose the 7.1 mixes for the wastes of space that they are.

The 2.0 track is terrible because it comes out of the rear speakers? Umm...
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