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turn off "dialog norm" on my ONKYO - Page 2

post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

yup. consider yourself "un-densed"...

no, it's not "possible", it's "certain"...

the reason you only see the dialnorm message with dd is because it's a function of dd (or dts)...

This is 100 % correct. DD on broadcast because there is no one that broadcast in DTS. They do broadcast in stereo and therefore the re-acquisition of the DD signal, this will occur between regular broadcast and commercials or when you change the channel. Not all programming is created equal. This is also why (if you watch closely) that dial-norm reading will in some cases be a different value. Its really simple. Its not the AVR.............
post #32 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

You seem to be blaming this on Onkyo.

Didn't mean to imply that. I've always felt the problem is the DirecTV box. I just "assumed" Onkyo AVR's handled the problem differently. He did not have the problem with his prior non Onkyo AVR, so I assumed Onkyo was involved. His older AVR was not HDMI. I use Dish along with Onkyo, Denon, etc.....never had the problem my friend is having. I've tried component and optical audio connections between his DirecTV box and Onkyo. This did not correct the problem.

Thanks,
John
post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by dormie1360 View Post

Didn't mean to imply that. I've always felt the problem is the DirecTV box. I just "assumed" Onkyo AVR's handled the problem differently. He did not have the problem with his prior non Onkyo AVR, so I assumed Onkyo was involved. His older AVR was not HDMI. I use Dish along with Onkyo, Denon, etc.....never had the problem my friend is having. I've tried component and optical audio connections between his DirecTV box and Onkyo. This did not correct the problem.

Thanks,
John

Okay. Both the component and the optical are digital. Thats why the problem was not corrected. The only way to get rid of this is to either put the box in stereo mode or connect the analog (composite:red & white) out from the box to the AVR. Of course there goes DD and any EQ'ing. Is it possible it was occuring and he just did not notice it. What AVR did he have?
post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

Okay. Both the component and the optical are digital. Thats why the problem was not corrected. The only way to get rid of this is to either put the box in stereo mode or connect the analog (composite:red & white) out from the box to the AVR. Of course there goes DD and any EQ'ing. Is it possible it was occuring and he just did not notice it. What AVR did he have?

I don't remember, it was kinda old, maybe a Marantz. You know, now that you mention it, when I went over to hook up his new AVR, I remember asking him about all his Analog connections. He may have had it connected that way. The drop out is very noticable, I'm sure he would have noticed it with the old AVR.

Thanks,
John
post #35 of 46
Where's "I Love Dialog Norm" on the poll?

As many times over the years I've seen dialog norm on my AVR not once can I ever remember being bothered about any audio dropouts.
post #36 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by colour View Post

Where's "I Love Dialog Norm" on the poll?

As many times over the years I've seen dialog norm on my AVR not once can I ever remember being bothered about any audio dropouts.

You are right - I should have put a 4th option in the poll.
But once the poll started, I could not edit it.
I am sorry about that.
post #37 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dormie1360 View Post

Ditto on a DirecTV issue.....although Onkyo receivers may to be more adversely affected than others. I've been trying to help a friend with DiagNorm dropouts with no luck. Onkyo receiver (s). Certain stations with DD seem to be worse than others. Using digital instead of HDMI connections does not help. DirecTV is of no help.

John

I would think this quote from ccotenj applies:
"some avr's handle changes in the audio stream more gracefully than others..."

I think that quote is really the best answer so far to my original problem.
post #38 of 46
Thread Starter 
I was hoping there was a hidden menu where you could ignore dialnorm.
But no such luck.
post #39 of 46
Quote:


I was hoping there was a hidden menu where you could ignore dialnorm.

how many times does it need to be said to you that DIALNORM IS NOT CAUSING YOUR PROBLEM before you get it?
post #40 of 46
^^^

obviously, more times than has already been stated...
post #41 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

how many times does it need to be said to you that DIALNORM IS NOT CAUSING YOUR PROBLEM before you get it?

I would only believe you if I could turn off dailnorm, and I still had the problem.
Only then would I believe that this ONKYO (and possibly other brands) has a different problem (that my Sunfire did not have).
But we have already established that I can not turn off dialnorm.
So, the answer is, telling me over and over is not going to convince me.

Also, apparently, several people will not believe me when I describe the problem. So maybe that will make you feel a little better.
post #42 of 46
we DO believe you. It's just that you are not understanding -- you are mistaking a SYMPTOM of the problem for the CAUSE of the problem.
post #43 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_cow_w_knife View Post

I would only believe you if I could turn off dailnorm, and I still had the problem.
Only then would I believe that this ONKYO (and possibly other brands) has a different problem (that my Sunfire did not have).
But we have already established that I can not turn off dialnorm.
So, the answer is, telling me over and over is not going to convince me.

Also, apparently, several people will not believe me when I describe the problem. So maybe that will make you feel a little better.

So go read something from somebody you would believe and get yourself straight.

If I ran around saying that city lights made the stars literally stop shining and refused to believe it when people told me the stars were still there, but too dim to see with the gackground light, I could cling to my incorrect belief all I wanted, but it would do me no good. I guess if I was happy being wrong, I'd stay happy. If that's where you are, just quietly go about your business . . .

If your Onk is like my Denon, you can start with this experiment. Put on a DVD that has a DD soundtrack with dialnorm. When the movie starts (and maybe with each different preview) you'll see dialnorm value displayed. Now pause or stop the DVD. Start it, and you'll see the Dialnorm value displayed (at least thats what my Denon does). Repeat until you feel certain that everytime the receiver first "hears" a DD signal, after any break at all, it will display the dialnorm value.

Now, if you get there, you can see that you can't diagnose your problem the way you think you can. Seeing the Dialnorm value will absolutely occur AFTER every time the signal gets interrupted (ie AFTER every dropout). So even if dialnorm was causing the problem (and it's a little hard to logically see how an unchanging piece of metadata could cause random changes in function of your system) you could not diagnose it by seeing the dialnorm value show up. Because the dialnorm value will show up after every dropout no matter what the cause (change channels, turn off and back on, whatever). It's a little like saying "everytime a light turns on in my house I flip a switch. Lights turning on cause me to flip switches."
post #44 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

So go read something from somebody you would believe and get yourself straight.

If I ran around saying that city lights made the stars literally stop shining and refused to believe it when people told me the stars were still there, but too dim to see with the gackground light, I could cling to my incorrect belief all I wanted, but it would do me no good. I guess if I was happy being wrong, I'd stay happy. If that's where you are, just quietly go about your business . . .

If your Onk is like my Denon, you can start with this experiment. Put on a DVD that has a DD soundtrack with dialnorm. When the movie starts (and maybe with each different preview) you'll see dialnorm value displayed. Now pause or stop the DVD. Start it, and you'll see the Dialnorm value displayed (at least thats what my Denon does). Repeat until you feel certain that everytime the receiver first "hears" a DD signal, after any break at all, it will display the dialnorm value.

Now, if you get there, you can see that you can't diagnose your problem the way you think you can. Seeing the Dialnorm value will absolutely occur AFTER every time the signal gets interrupted (ie AFTER every dropout). So even if dialnorm was causing the problem (and it's a little hard to logically see how an unchanging piece of metadata could cause random changes in function of your system) you could not diagnose it by seeing the dialnorm value show up. Because the dialnorm value will show up after every dropout no matter what the cause (change channels, turn off and back on, whatever). It's a little like saying "everytime a light turns on in my house I flip a switch. Lights turning on cause me to flip switches."

Well stated.

I have an 876 and audio dropouts from DTV. Turning off Dolby Digital in the DirecTV Audio settings "fixes" it, but using DSP to restore 5.1 audio just isn't the same as the DD source signal, so I have just suffered with it for now.

The issue being described here sounds A LOT like the same one I have. Dialog Norm being displayed each time the receiver acquires a DD source is very easy to test.

Because I had seen it so often prior to the dropouts beginning (also - it seems to be related to their encoding, as my OTA channels do not display this issue), and can't reproduce it from the source OTA HD signals on local rebroadcasts - it's pretty easy to troubleshoot the issue and see that it's not the receiver. I noticed an uptick when they switched a bunch of HD channels over to MPEG4...

Also, I don't get dropouts on Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, Xbox or my PC sources. Again - easy to pin on DirecTV. Hopefully they will find a way to fix it.

DirecTV are not the only provider with this encoding issue though - my brother has the same issue, solved by the same workaround in his FiOS box - except HE HAS NO AVR - but his TV can take DD signals over HDMI, and stuttered incessantly on several channels - like we are talking dropouts every 3 seconds. Disabling Dolby Digital in favor of Stereo sound on his STB also fixes the problem with his audio...
post #45 of 46
I get droupouts from some channels on OTA TV, but it's what I've got so I live with it. I seldom miss the expanded channels of cable or satellite (although I could do with some ESPN). In some ways reception is better since we've gone digital, and in some ways worse. I do like having the real surround encoding OTA, and some modern TV shows have surprisingly powerful mixes going on.
post #46 of 46
I have a similar problem with TX-NR709 with latest firmware. But I have video going in with Component (tried HDMI with same results) and audio optical. So the audio is actually fine, but I get sporadic video dropouts/blackouts all the time. I don't necessarily think it's the receiver's fault though, I used to get them when I had it connected directly to the TV, but not nearly as often though. Comcast seems to be aware of the problem and has been promising a fix for over a year. My cable box is Cisco RNG-200N http://forums.comcast.com/t5/XfinityTV-and-Equipment/Momentary-Black-Screen-RNG-200N-DVR/m-p/1533523#M63575
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