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iSival MP720B1 LED HD 720p Mini Projector - Page 2

post #31 of 154
Thread Starter 
Update on the iSival projector. The problem I had with dark levels displaying a greenish color are now completely gone. I solved this by changing my computer HDMi settings pixel format. Selecting YCbCr 4:4:4 pixel format at 1280x720 resolution displays proper greyscale. About the low contrast, it is noticeable depending on the material being viewed. When it comes to video games it's not an issue at all really, things do look great, some games seem to leap off the screen, very vivid and detailed. On the other hand, real life based material such as movies, sports etc you can notice the less contrast but it highly depends on the content. I've watched HD baseball broadcasts and it was very enjoyable to watch. Peoples faces looked good, but on some other content peoples faces did look slightly washed out..this is more so on standard def material. Hi Def material the contrast does always look better, I'm not sure why that is..Most movies in Hi Def are very good..I'm pretty happy with this purchase to be honest because of the bang for the buck. I play a lot of video games, normally racking up many hours on my displays. I have left the projector on for over 8 hours at a time and even 12 hours in one day with one hour break in between..If you are a GAMER..I recommend it you will fall in love with it at 80 inches..If you're mainly into movies etc you might wan't a bulb based projector since you get higher contrast and you will not be putting as many hours into it most likely so the bulb will last you long anyways..I did the math.. according to the way I use my projector I would need a bulb once a year or more almost guaranteed based on my heavy usage and that's not factoring in early bulb failure and the bulb going dim..Too expensive for me..not an option. Like I said I use it a lot (typing this right now for expample), I do however wish these companies would bring out true 1080p LED with high contrast soon.

Also side note the other day I somehow fell asleep with projector on..the pc turned off all connected displays automatically and projector displayed static image (no signal found) all night long untill I woke up and turned it off. I was upset I had let this happen..I inspected the image very carefully looking at individual pixels..no image burn-in problem at all..This worried me since I know LCD technology can have some sort of image retention (LCOS is in some ways similar to LCD and DLP) I will hopefully not let this happen ever again, but it's good to know LCOS (liquid crystal on silicon) is good tech for computer use.
post #32 of 154
Playing games for 12 hours in a day.... a bulb is not what u need muchacho



I bet it works good for gaming. I throw contrast out the window when shooting people online or you can't see people hiding as well.
post #33 of 154
Thread Starter 
Here is a clip demonstrating broadcast cable television running under win7 media center edition. Accolade 80" screen and my new Hauppauge HDPVR unit was used for this demonstration. I"m actually hitting 78 inches, just short due to the fact I cannot move the projector any further back..I can however wall mount the screen instead of using the tripod legs..That should give me those extra inches...Please note that the quality of these videos really suffers due to the video captures themselvs, there is some color shifting caused by the camera and add to that compression..but you get the point

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBnRh1a6Kek


edit...does anyone know why my camera has color shifting problem with these projector video captures? I don't see any of that on the screen, it shows up in all my video captures..is there any settings that could fix this on my camera?
post #34 of 154
I just bought the isival which I should receive by next week. I'm going to compare it to my hs201 and I'll be doing a review.
post #35 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heeman View Post

Here is a clip demonstrating broadcast cable television running under win7 media center edition. Accolade 80" screen and my new Hauppauge HDPVR unit was used for this demonstration. I"m actually hitting 78 inches, just short due to the fact I cannot move the projector any further back..I can however wall mount the screen instead of using the tripod legs..That should give me those extra inches...Please note that the quality of these videos really suffers due to the video captures themselvs, there is some color shifting caused by the camera and add to that compression..but you get the point

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBnRh1a6Kek

edit...does anyone know why my camera has color shifting problem with these projector video captures? I don't see any of that on the screen, it shows up in all my video captures..is there any settings that could fix this on my camera?

You got specs for that pc, it's faster than mine * infinity.
post #36 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey90 View Post

I just bought the isival which I should receive by next week. I'm going to compare it to my hs201 and I'll be doing a review.

I think a few people will be looking forward to that. If their specs are way off and the contrast is anything close to the 201 or 300, I think lots of people might like it. The price is significantly better than the hx300.
post #37 of 154
Thread Starter 
My home theater pc specs

Intel quad core Q6600 @2.4 GHz
ATi 4850x2 (2 gigabytes version dual GPU video card)
4 Gigabytes Memory (OCZ DDR2 800 RAM)
Asus P5K-VM motherboard (micro atx)
Corsair 450 watts power supply (CMPSU-450VX)
Silverstone Sugo SG-01 low profile case
Logitech 5300e 5.1 speakers
Maxtor 200 GIG 7200 RPM hard drive
WinTV-HVR-1250 PCI Express x1 Internal TV Tuner
Hauppauge HD PVR USB external 1080i/720p capture device
Zalman Low Profile CPU Cooler HSF (CNPS8000A)
Logitech USB wireless optical mouse
USB standard keyboard


Also these devices add to make my total media experience
-Xbox 360 wired controller
-Logitech Dual analog wireless controller
-Logitech MOMO Force steering wheel
-Logitech G35 7.1 sourround headphones
-Super Street Fighter IV Tournament Arcade Stick
-Saitek Flight Stick

note: There is basically no CPU usage at all when recording with external USB Hauppague HD PVR. Windows 7 task manager reports 0-1 or 2% at most which is what my normal idle usage is most of the time..This is because the Hauppague HD PVR is a hardware encoder, all work is processed on the unit itself (has it's own processor). The only thing going on really is the USB transmission of data which is about 13.5 megabytes per second when recording full quality HD material.. I am able to multitask play pc games and record tv shows wth no issues to the game performance at all..The only downside might be slightly slower game loading times...It's a nice box that essentially passes through the set top cable box signal to your computer, which in turn can record or display the image to any computer connected displays..In my case the projector, LCD monitor and Panasonic Tau 1080i HDTV.


Also, I realized I should be posting pictures and videos with the projection screen further away so the magnitude of the screen size can seen. I'll try to put some new ones up soon...
post #38 of 154
Thanks to Heenan for his posts and his YouTube links. Normally I'm sceptical of pictures and videos of screen images. They always seem to be accompanied by a disclaimer that the pictures/videos don't do the image justice. Everyone says it, it must be true. But this raises the question - what is the point of presenting evidence if the evidence isn't worth much?

This guy Art Feierman over at Projector Central spends a tremendous amount of time and effort taking photos of screen images and then warning every reader to ignore the photos and rely on his subjective assessment. I follow that advice. He takes pictures with random amounts of overexposure so it is impossible to compare different models. I used to try to pick up subtleties between various models but I gave up when I found that cheap projectors often seemed better than expensive highly praised models.

But finally I have found a comparison that seems to be show something. The YouTube link that Heenan posts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBnRh1a6Kek

can be compared with lots of other 720p bulb based projectors like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTfCaptXui0&feature=fvst

This is a video of an Optoma HD65 - a popular 720p projector that sells for about $550 on the Web. There are plenty of other videos posted featuring the HD65 and similar low cost bulb based projectors.

I'm sorry to say that the low contrast ratio of the LED iSival projector is quite obvious. Nothing looks white, the highlights aren't very high. There seems to be a gray film over the image.

Almost everyday I look on the web for the introduction of an inexpensive, bright 720p projector that uses LEDs. Alas the iSival is not that projector. The LCoS chip, the lens and electronics seem to be fine but the LEDs are just not quite bright enough yet.
post #39 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by PLB View Post

Thanks to Heenan for his posts and his YouTube links. Normally I'm sceptical of pictures and videos of screen images. They always seem to be accompanied by a disclaimer that the pictures/videos don't do the image justice. Everyone says it, it must be true. But this raises the question - what is the point of presenting evidence if the evidence isn't worth much?

This guy Art Feierman over at Projector Central spends a tremendous amount of time and effort taking photos of screen images and then warning every reader to ignore the photos and rely on his subjective assessment. I follow that advice. He takes pictures with random amounts of overexposure so it is impossible to compare different models. I used to try to pick up subtleties between various models but I gave up when I found that cheap projectors often seemed better than expensive highly praised models.

But finally I have found a comparison that seems to be show something. The YouTube link that Heenan posts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBnRh1a6Kek

can be compared with lots of other 720p bulb based projectors like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTfCaptXui0&feature=fvst

This is a video of an Optoma HD65 - a popular 720p projector that sells for about $550 on the Web. There are plenty of other videos posted featuring the HD65 and similar low cost bulb based projectors.

I'm sorry to say that the low contrast ratio of the LED iSival projector is quite obvious. Nothing looks white, the highlights aren't very high. There seems to be a gray film over the image.

Almost everyday I look on the web for the introduction of an inexpensive, bright 720p projector that uses LEDs. Alas the iSival is not that projector. The LCoS chip, the lens and electronics seem to be fine but the LEDs are just not quite bright enough yet.


projectorreviews.com



The camera's unfortunately process the image, so basically all videos and screenshots are rather pointless. I happen to appreciate art's overexposed images however.



That video of an HD65 is pure b.s. Have you ever seen one in person? The black levels are about 200x worse than that video would have you believe. That is the problem with digital cameras, they will adjust the black levels for you, making it impossible to compare them to another source.
post #40 of 154
Thread Starter 
The media center video I posted looks very bad compared to the real thing..I assure you whites are indeed white. That video has tons of image noise and compression, isival has a clean image, very little noise with HDMI source. Matter of fact I tun off noise reduction, it's not needed! I have a decent DSLR camera Canon XSI that Im sure with the right setitngs will provide much better images of the unit in action..It's just a matter of the right settings..I have a tripod I have 3 lenses ..I just have to work out the exposure settings..It's tricky with a projector since the room is very dark. cannot use flash since it will wash out the image I am sure...I just have to experiment untill I can get the photos as close as possible to what my eyes see..

note: Panasonic Lumix DMC TZ5 is the camera responsible for my videos.. It takes great pics and videos outdoors in good light..but indoor poor light, it takes a nosedive in quality..Turn off all lights in very dark room..I got problems...With projectors you just have to go by recomendations or see one for yourself in action...just my 2 cents...
post #41 of 154
Heeman,
One thing I find very cool is how little screen door you say there is with this pj.

I might be able to setup in a smaller room with a smaller picture than I had with my old bulb based projector (110" Hor.picture 126"Diag.).
If I could go into a smaller room with an 80"diag. picture which I think would be about 70"Hor. Now if what you say about the low screen door of this projector is true, I would be able to have the seating much closer to the screen.
In the end, it would not seem that much smaller than my old setup if I could sit closer.
How far back do you need to sit from an 80"diag. screen with this projector? Could you sit at 8feet ? I know thats close but would like to know your thoughts on it.

Also,what is the minimum distance the projector needs to be away from the screen to get an 80"diag. picture ?
post #42 of 154
Thread Starter 
I am currently sitting at about 10 feet from the screen, projector is another 2 feet behind me next to the couch. I don't see any screen door effect you can only make out pixels if you are very close just a few feet away...12 feet is around the mark you need to throw 80 inches...I've managed to improve the picture, display text sharper than ever over the time I've owned it through some tweaking. Experimented with different greyscale settings. scaled resoltuions etc. I'll pass on my tweaks to anyone who is interested.
post #43 of 154
12 feet for 80".
I thought it would need less distance for just an 80" screen ?
post #44 of 154
After reading LED Longevity Overrated? I'm not sure led projectors are the way to go. I'm hoping more companies will skip led and just go with lasers.
post #45 of 154
My Macbook pro that has an LED screen that I bought in 2007 gets at least 2 hours of use everyday day and I haven't noticed any lower brightness, I actually have to dim it because its too bright on the full brightness setting, I think it depends on the brand of LED.
post #46 of 154
LEDs dim over time but it's a long time guys. I would worry about other components failing first.
post #47 of 154
Waiting to hear from Mikey how contrast and black levels stack up to the lgs. I can't believe 200:1 contrast in 2010 that is insane. Maybe they meant ANSI.
post #48 of 154
Seriously... I hate the rave about how all these little projectors. Pico projectors and what not are just as good. Then why hasn't everyone switched over? It's fair to talk positively about the technology and its nice how small they're making it. But it's one thing to advise people in search of small portable projectors such as this, but its another to conclude that they are JUST AS GOOD as a 1k 1080p projector. Okay... perhaps your measurement of analysis and comparison is extremely poor hahaha
post #49 of 154
I think the 1k 1080ps are crap. I bet I really hate this thing.
post #50 of 154
hi, I will travel to Phoenix Arizona on this November, and will be staying at Arizona Grand Resort for 1 week, I'm thinking of getting 1 of this iSiVal MP720B1 projector, but I don't know where can I get it. Really appreciate if anyone here can advised where can I buy this, thanks in advanced.
post #51 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by swaichia View Post

hi, I will travel to Phoenix Arizona on this November, and will be staying at Arizona Grand Resort for 1 week, I'm thinking of getting 1 of this iSiVal MP720B1 projector, but I don't know where can I get it. Really appreciate if anyone here can advised where can I buy this, thanks in advanced.

It's on Amazon or Isival sivalinstruments

How would the Samsung SP-F10M 3LCD projector compare to the isival? Samsung 1024 by 768 vs 1280 by 768.
post #52 of 154
I got the projector but I've just been so busy, but I'll have my little review up tomorrow hopefully.
post #53 of 154
Thread Starter 
Looking forward to your review..BTW The contrast ratio specs refer to ANSI contrast measurement not full on full off according to iSival support. He mentioned it is per frame, which indicates it should be ANSI spec (Black White in same frame, like checkerboard test) ..I don't have any meter to make real measurements full on/off but it would be good to know, I would buy the tool but only if it's inexpensive..

On side note there doesn't seem to be any news at CEDIA this year regarding affordable LED projectors. No 720p or 1080p mainstream LED units except for example high end expensive products such as the 3D Runco 1080p($49,000.00) and SIM2 Grand Cinema 1080p MICO 50 LED DLP (approx $20,000.00)...Looks like it will be many years at least or more until the market makes the switch from bulb to affordable LED or LASER projectors...very dissapointed. I'll be keeping my iSival for a lot longer than I thought. I was so looking forward to new 1080p sub 2k led model projectors this or next year but it looks like a waiting game for now...

added
Sherlock Holmes trailer panning away from 80inch screen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMuPs3ssTxo

Mafia II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrPtwmstU6M

The Hunter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zuRKPH_sGA
post #54 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verge2 View Post

I think the 1k 1080ps are crap. I bet I really hate this thing.

I am enjoying both of my Mitsubishi HC3800s very much, but then again they are just over the grand mark.

But I do have something to add here. I had purchased two of the Isival units back in July and this was my review of them, do with it what you all want:

I received these and set them up in my living room and the verdict is:

"GOOD GOD THESE ARE FAWKING TERRIBLE!!!"

I would go on and elaborate, but that would be a waste of your time and mine. Ill just put the bulletins up:

(1) Contrast is GOD AWFUL, I never realized how spoiled I am with my U2410 monitors and my old Z4 projector, but I am. Even at the best focus the text was very fuzzy to read.

(2) Color reproduction was Awful and the horrific black levels made me want to die. I had a headache in five minutes.

(3) There is a 15% restocking fee, which totals $150. I have asked customer support in an email to wave the fee so I will have to wait and see how expensive this terrible experiment turns out to be. If they bang me on the fee, I will never buy their products again and make it a mission to make sure nobody else does either. I will keep you posted on this.

Basically, the LED tech is a far way from being ready. The contrast, color, and brightness ratios need to come way, way up before the tech is doable.

And for the seam argument...well you would not be able to hide it with these projectors, I will tell you that right now. Even though both had the same exact settings, their colors were off from each other and there was a very, very, noticeable difference.

UPDATE:
Yep, they are going to waive the restocking fee. A classy company indeed and when the tech improves I will buy from them again.
post #55 of 154
Thread Starter 
I am sure the Mitsubishi HC3800 are great projectors..but then again they are in a total different price range costing over twice as much as the iSival..not including extra bulbs either...I'll buy bulbs if they remove the mercury completely and lower the prices substantially..and we know that will never happen..
post #56 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by l88bastard View Post

I am enjoying both of my Mitsubishi HC3800s very much, but then again they are just over the grand mark.

But I do have something to add here. I had purchased two of the Isival units back in July and this was my review of them, do with it what you all want:

I received these and set them up in my living room and the verdict is:

"GOOD GOD THESE ARE FAWKING TERRIBLE!!!"

I would go on and elaborate, but that would be a waste of your time and mine. Ill just put the bulletins up:

(1) Contrast is GOD AWFUL, I never realized how spoiled I am with my U2410 monitors and my old Z4 projector, but I am. Even at the best focus the text was very fuzzy to read.

(2) Color reproduction was Awful and the horrific black levels made me want to die. I had a headache in five minutes.

(3) There is a 15% restocking fee, which totals $150. I have asked customer support in an email to wave the fee so I will have to wait and see how expensive this terrible experiment turns out to be. If they bang me on the fee, I will never buy their products again and make it a mission to make sure nobody else does either. I will keep you posted on this.

Basically, the LED tech is a far way from being ready. The contrast, color, and brightness ratios need to come way, way up before the tech is doable.

And for the seam argument...well you would not be able to hide it with these projectors, I will tell you that right now. Even though both had the same exact settings, their colors were off from each other and there was a very, very, noticeable difference.

UPDATE:
Yep, they are going to waive the restocking fee. A classy company indeed and when the tech improves I will buy from them again.

I can't say i'm super surprised with this. If i had to speculate, i would say the light output just isn't near what it needs to be with these cheap led projectors. In order to boost light output, they are removing every trick in the book that gives better contrast and black levels. At least, that is my speculation. In one of the other LED threads they were posting measurements that i think a german website measured. Needless to say, the contrast was 1/20th what the manufacturers were claiming.
post #57 of 154
Hi everyone here is my review of the iSival 720p led projector vs the LG Hs201 led projector.

My source is my 2008 macbook pro and its being projected directly on to my white wall.


First impressions when opening the box and holding the projector in my hand is that its built very solid the build quality is on par the LG. It comes with your typical accessories, like power supply, cables,manuals and it comes with a small mirror you can attach to it and project onto a ceiling.

Brightness

When I first fired it up I could tell it was noticeably dimmer than the LG, it was about 10-15% less bright than the HS201 on eco mode which is the lowest brightness setting on the Hs201, this is the setting I use with the LG normally. The lamp brightness on the isival is fixed so you can't adjust it and the LG has three brightness modes ECO ,normal, and presentation. I thought the brightness was fine though, in a dark room even if it has some ambient light that is not directly hitting the wall your projecting on the brightness is very good.

Contrast

The contrast on the isival is noticeably lower than the LG, but its not as bad as I thought it would be though. Very dark scenes sometimes have a green tinge and look a little blocky instead of just smooth, bright scenes look very good though except for the occasional dark spot in a bright scene like the underside of a tree which has more of a light to medium gray color. When I was watching the movie Mr. Brooks which has many dark scenes it was very noticeable and it bothered me a little but it didn't completely take away from enjoyment of the movie.

Rainbow effect

I noticed that there is a noticeable rainbow effect that I could see when there is fast scene or if I turned my neck fast and sometimes when I blink. This was distracting when trying to watch a movie but I did get used to it eventually and now I don't really notice it as much although its still present. The LG doesnt have any rainbow effect I notice, but it does have the screen door effect which kind of makes it look like you're looking through a screen mesh and takes away from the resolution IMO. If I had to choose one of these flaws to live with it would be the rainbow effect but if there was none of these flaws it would be a lot better.

Throw Distance
The isival has a longer throw than the LG which means you have to put it further back to get about the same size screen. The only issue with that for me is that it puts the projector closer to you and you can hear the fan noise more.
Fan noise
The fan noise on the isival is about the same as the LG on normal mode, which is not that loud but not quiet either. The LG on eco mode is very quiet.

Focusing issue

The isival has a focusing issue where its not possible to get the screen 100% in focus. This is especially noticeable with text. For example if I focus the projector to be 100% in focus on the bottom of the screen, the center and most noticeable the top 1/4 of the screen is blurry and vice versa. You have to focus it at the center which gives the overall best focus but the bottom and top will be only about 85-90% in focus. With movies its not as noticeable but when youre using a computer it makes text kind of blurry mainly on the top and bottom 1/4th of the screen. The LG doesnt have this issue its very sharp and as far as I could tell its 100% in focus.
Resolution
The resolution is obviously better on the isival you get more detail than the LG and the native 16:9 ratio makes movies more enjoyable to watch IMO. With the LG when watching movies I find myself concentrating sometimes on the resolution and the aspect ratio instead of just enjoying the movie, with the isival I find myself just enjoying the movie more and not thinking about that.

Speakers
The speakers on both projetors are crap, I never have any need for the built-in speakers anyway, I feel they should just not come with speakers and lower the costs of the projectors.

Colors
The colors on the LG are better than the isival, it seems the LG has a wider range of colors, though this might be due to the increased contrast of the LG.

Conclusion
IMO the isival has the edge for movies and I presume playing games as well, but it would not be that good for computer use and businesss presentations the LG is much better for that.


Main cons of the isival:
Focusing issue
rainbow effect
low contrast
noisy fan

Cons of LG:
Screen door effect
low resolution & native 4:3 (16:9 would be better IMO)

here is a few crappy pics I was able to take before my camera died


LG HS201


ISIVAL
post #58 of 154
Thread Starter 
Nice review! What size did you use for the projector comparison? Also I find that tweaking movies through the media players settings I get much better results than through the iSival menu's only..This is because there is no gamma options in iSival...setting proper gamma, contrast, brightness, saturation and hue though any media player and combined using iSivals options as a maximum thresshhold I was able to improve my movies quite noticeably,giving an impression of much deeper contrast..There needs to be a gamma option in iSival and a Red,Green,Blue separate controls,but on a PC it is not an issue..I assume your walls are white?..because on white projection screen I attained much better results then on my own walls, I'm sure you will too with both projectors..

Also note that all my earlier pictures takem with dslr camera were not setup correctly as I do now with the extended settings, gamma etc.. so I will try to show the improvements I managed to achieve, maybe do a side by side comparison at some point...
post #59 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heeman View Post

Nice review! What size did you use for the projector comparison? Also I find that tweaking movies through the media players settings I get much better results than through the iSival menu's only..This is because there is no gamma options in iSival...setting proper gamma, contrast, brightness, saturation and hue though any media player and combined using iSivals options as a maximum thresshhold I was able to improve my movies quite noticeably,giving an impression of much deeper contrast..There needs to be a gamma option in iSival and a Red,Green,Blue separate controls,but on a PC it is not an issue..I assume your walls are white?..because on white projection screen I attained much better results then on my own walls, I'm sure you will too with both projectors..

Also note that all my earlier pictures takem with dslr camera were not setup correctly as I do now with the extended settings, gamma etc.. so I will try to show the improvements I managed to achieve, maybe do a side by side comparison at some point...


Thanks. Size was about 60-65". Wall was white. My macbook pros player doesn't have video settings to change, I did play around with the isivals video settings for a while and Improved the picture a little bit.


If you look closely at the pics and look at the mouse arrows you can see the one on the sival is a little more blurry.it looks like the camera was out of focus but this is actually the focusing issue I was talking about
post #60 of 154
What about in-car video?

My car came with an LCD screen for watching movies.

When I have to wait in my car, I thought that would be suitable, but the screen was too small for me. Because a low-cost projector and a white board might serve better, I have been reading here with great interest and much gratitude for info presented here.
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