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3DA-1 Chrushing Blacks in Pass Through Mode...

post #1 of 12
8/17/10 at 8:32am
Thread Starter 
I recently tried to re-calibrate my Mitsubishi W65C9 folloing the installation of the 3DA-1 3d coverter box. I tried using both the AVIA DVD and the DVE HD-DVD/DVD combo discs to adjust the contrast, brightness, and color settings. Both discs pointed out the sever black crush being introduced by, I believe, the 3DA-1. I began tearing apart my setup to verify that the 3DA-1 was in fact the culpret, and sure enough, when I bypass it, the black crush vanishes.

Here's a little more detail...

Setup - PS3 to 3DA-1 to W65C9
Results - None of the moving black Bars in the AVIA/DVE pluge patterns are visible when the 3DA-1 is connected. If I bypass it and connect directly to the TV, then all is well. No amount of increase in the brightness or contrast makes any of the moving black bars visible.

I'm aware of the difficulties that some players have with passing the blacker than black signal on the DVE disc, but at least you'd still be able to see the two that are just above black. In the setup mentioned above, all bars are invisible.

I was hoping that someone could verify this with their setup and porpose a work around/solution.

I'm using the Natural setting on the W65C9 (not bright or brilliant) althought those seeting do not make a difference either. It simply seems as though the 3DA-1 in bypass mode (meaning not passing 3D content) is crushing the blacks severely.

Thanks for any help.
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post #2 of 12
8/17/10 at 8:04pm
I can confirm this as well with ps3. 73835 and the mits 3d adapter. With adapter in line no flashing bars at all, remove adapter and pattern is now displayed normally.
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post #3 of 12
8/18/10 at 12:50pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the back-up. Now...what can we do to inmplent a work around. I'm currently working on a cludgy soultion of utilizing a powered HDMI splitter to route the 3D Material to 1 of the TV's HDMI inputs and 2D material to another HDMI input. This should allow the user to view 2D content without having to deal with the Black Crush on HDMI IN-1 and view 3D content through the 3DA-1 on HDMI-IN-2


I've ordered the following HDMI Splitter...http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product

Hopefully, it will support routing the signal to both inputs simultaneously.
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post #4 of 12
8/18/10 at 3:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tofana10am View Post

Thanks for the back-up. Now...what can we do to inmplent a work around. I'm currently working on a cludgy soultion of utilizing a powered HDMI splitter to route the 3D Material to 1 of the TV's HDMI inputs and 2D material to another HDMI input. This should allow the user to view 2D content without having to deal with the Black Crush on HDMI IN-1 and view 3D content through the 3DA-1 on HDMI-IN-2


I've ordered the following HDMI Splitter...http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product

Hopefully, it will support routing the signal to both inputs simultaneously.

Let me know how this works out for you, as for now since their is very little 3d content so im bypassing the adapter and when i want to view some 3d i will swich the hdmi cables to get the adapter back in line.
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post #5 of 12
8/21/10 at 6:54pm
Thread Starter 
I received the HDMI splitter yesterday, hooked it up, and can confirm that it works very well...for the PS3 I've got HDMI-1 set for 2D content and HDMI-2 set for 3D content (individual brghtness and color setting for each type of content). When sourcing from DirecTV, the setup complains that the TV is not 3D compatible. Apparently the splitter is introducing it's own HDMI ID tags and not allowing the DVR (HR-22) to see the TV's ID. This is a well known problem with viewing 3D content on DirecTV's channels and something that they certainly need to fix (sooner rather than later). Heck, most folks can't even put an AVR between the DVR and TV without the DirecTV equipment pitching a fit and disabling the 3D content. A very stupid and short sighted implementation if you ask me. They need to pay attention to what Sony is doing and allow the user to determine if they have a suitable 3D display device rather than the equipment itself.

Long story short, the setup works for mitigating the Black crushing introduced into 2D content by the 3DA-1.
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post #6 of 12
8/22/10 at 7:02am
In my current setup its only a quick cable swap so i think im going to leave as is since i have watched very little 3d so far anyways. I am surprised by the lack of responses in this thread since at least to me crushing blacks is a big deal and unacceptable.
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post #7 of 12
8/22/10 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post

In my current setup its only a quick cable swap so i think im going to leave as is since i have watched very little 3d so far anyways. I am surprised by the lack of responses in this thread since at least to me crushing blacks is a big deal and unacceptable.

You impressed me--I've set up my system to bypass the adapter unless watching 3D.
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post #8 of 12
8/22/10 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmalter0 View Post

You impressed me--I've set up my system to bypass the adapter unless watching 3D.

I just had a problem with the bypass--maybe someone here can help. My Moto 3400 cable box has one HDMI output and a component output. I have the HDMI going through a switch and the adapter to my 65737--it works. But I can't get the component to component bypass to work(even if I disconnect the HDMI)
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post #9 of 12
8/22/10 at 3:01pm
The blacks concern me as well, and besides lately the D* is giving me the "not compatible" whine when I connect thru my new AVR Denon 3311 3D. I've been out of town so havent' had a chance to try different connections.
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post #10 of 12
8/22/10 at 4:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tofana10am View Post

I recently tried to re-calibrate my Mitsubishi W65C9 folloing the installation of the 3DA-1 3d coverter box. I tried using both the AVIA DVD and the DVE HD-DVD/DVD combo discs to adjust the contrast, brightness, and color settings. Both discs pointed out the sever black crush being introduced by, I believe, the 3DA-1. I began tearing apart my setup to verify that the 3DA-1 was in fact the culpret, and sure enough, when I bypass it, the black crush vanishes.

Here's a little more detail...

Setup - PS3 to 3DA-1 to W65C9
Results - None of the moving black Bars in the AVIA/DVE pluge patterns are visible when the 3DA-1 is connected. If I bypass it and connect directly to the TV, then all is well. No amount of increase in the brightness or contrast makes any of the moving black bars visible.


I'm aware of the difficulties that some players have with passing the blacker than black signal on the DVE disc, but at least you'd still be able to see the two that are just above black. In the setup mentioned above, all bars are invisible.

I was hoping that someone could verify this with their setup and porpose a work around/solution.

I'm using the Natural setting on the W65C9 (not bright or brilliant) althought those seeting do not make a difference either. It simply seems as though the 3DA-1 in bypass mode (meaning not passing 3D content) is crushing the blacks severely.

Thanks for any help.


This might be solved by making certain the PS3 is set up to only use the correct HDMI video range. In the PS3 setup for HDMI the range should set to "RGB limited" and not to "RGB full". See the Official PS3 FAQ thread under "Video and Display Settings" for more info. The condition you have described would be what would be expected if the 3DA-1 is designed to only accept standard video levels (i.e., 16 thru 235) while the PS3 when set to "RGB Full" is remapping the video level for black (i.e., digital value = 16) to be output as level 0 and other near-black video levels are remapped into the range from 1 to 15. If the 3DA-1 doesn't support non-standard video levels below 16 (frequently call Blacker-than-Black) and the PS3 is outputting in "RGB Full" mode then you will get black crush. Easy solution is to set the PS3 correctly to "RGB Limited" mode.
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post #11 of 12
8/23/10 at 5:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

This might be solved by making certain the PS3 is set up to only use the correct HDMI video range. In the PS3 setup for HDMI the range should set to "RGB limited" and not to "RGB full".

My PS3 is set to limited (as it always has been), and blacks are noticeably crushed when passing through the 3D adapter. I haven't confirmed with a test disc yet, but it is noticeable. Not sure why the signal wouldn't be passed through as-is, but this does appear to be a real issue.

It seems that not only do I need to upgrade to an HDMI 1.4 receiver, I need one with dual outputs so I can easily bypass the adapter.
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post #12 of 12
8/23/10 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post

My PS3 is set to limited (as it always has been), and blacks are noticeably crushed when passing through the 3D adapter. I haven't confirmed with a test disc yet, but it is noticeable. Not sure why the signal wouldn't be passed through as-is, but this does appear to be a real issue.

It seems that not only do I need to upgrade to an HDMI 1.4 receiver, I need one with dual outputs so I can easily bypass the adapter.

My PS3 is set to limited as well. I totaly forgot one of the features of my Denon 3311 is dual hdmi out since i really had no need for it at time of purchase. I just utilized the 2nd output for my "3D" connection so the adapter is bypassed during all 2D viewing.
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