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New Dune HD Max and HD Smart anticipation thread Q3 2010 - Page 308

post #9211 of 10298
12/8/12 at 4:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TODDAVS View Post

I was thinking of getting a Hd Base used as a 2nd player for my house. I use Zappiti and stream from a combination of MKV's, BD ISO's, DVD ISO's, some movie only BD ISO's, and maybe a few random AVI's MPEG's and M2TS files.
Does the Base do BD Menus? If not will it play the core movie with subtitle and multiple audio formats?
Is there any other functionality I will be missing?
Can you add a BD drive to a base? I think it only takes an internal HD.

All current Dunes do full BD Menus except TV 101/301. Expect this to obviously not be the case gong forward with new players

He HD Base is not a "current" Dune is it?
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post #9212 of 10298
12/8/12 at 5:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TODDAVS View Post

He HD Base is not a "current" Dune is it?

Wasn't sure. If he is talking about the future announced player then the answers would be:

- No BD Menu Support
- Going based on the Zappiti Player that was announced there will be limited HD Audio support (DTSMA will only partially work for pass thru, TrueHD in mkv cannot be downmixed, and HD Audio will only be downmixed to 2ch stereo)
- A BD Rom drive cannot be added (for the same reason why there will be no BD Menu Support)
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post #9213 of 10298
12/8/12 at 5:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TODDAVS View Post

He HD Base is not a "current" Dune is it?

Wasn't sure. If he is talking about the future announced player then the answers would be:

- No BD Menu Support
- Going based on the Zappiti Player that was announced there will be limited HD Audio support (DTSMA will only partially work for pass thru, TrueHD in mkv cannot be downmixed, and HD Audio will only be downmixed to 2ch stereo)
- A BD Rom drive cannot be added (for the same reason why there will be no BD Menu Support)

Thanks for this, but I am referring to the previous player. Prior to the smart series. Looking at a used one.

I was thinking a newer player down the road for my third, but surprised about the lack of audio support you describe. I knew there was an issue downmixing when output to analog, but surprised it won't do it digital too. Now I am rethinking decision. I did know BD licensing was going away and not too surprised.

Though I output untouched audio right now via HDMI to processor that downmixes to 5.1.

Anyway original question relates to the older dune model. Dune Base 3.0

Thanks.
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post #9214 of 10298
12/8/12 at 5:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TODDAVS View Post

Thanks for this, but I am referring to the previous player. Prior to the smart series. Looking at a used one.
I was thinking a newer player down the road for my third, but surprised about the lack of audio support you describe. I knew there was an issue downmixing when output to analog, but surprised it won't do it digital too. Now I am rethinking decision. I did know BD licensing was going away and not too surprised.
Though I output untouched audio right now via HDMI to processor that downmixes to 5.1.
Anyway original question relates to the older dune model. Dune Base 3.0
Thanks.

OK, that is what I thought, so refer to my original response biggrin.gif

I still have a BD Prime 3.0 that hasn't missed a beat, gets used every day
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post #9215 of 10298
12/8/12 at 7:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

OK, that is what I thought, so refer to my original response biggrin.gif

I still have a BD Prime 3.0 that hasn't missed a beat, gets used every day

Thanks Damien
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post #9216 of 10298
12/9/12 at 6:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

Wasn't sure. If he is talking about the future announced player then the answers would be:
- Going based on the Zappiti Player that was announced there will be limited HD Audio support (DTSMA will only partially work for pass thru, TrueHD in mkv cannot be downmixed, and HD Audio will only be downmixed to 2ch stereo)

Doesn't this basically make it useless for those of us that have a nice audio system?
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post #9217 of 10298
12/9/12 at 6:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaggedEdge View Post

Doesn't this basically make it useless for those of us that have a nice audio system?

Yes, for those who want to pass thru the untouched hd audio it is a big negative. Not being able to decode truehd in an mkv is a big negative for those who connect directly to a tv. Ironically dtsma is becoming the most common hd audio track, so on the pass thru side this becomes a big issue (and makes it hard to justify charging a premium price)
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post #9218 of 10298
12/9/12 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

Yes, for those who want to pass thru the untouched hd audio it is a big negative. Not being able to decode truehd in an mkv is a big negative for those who connect directly to a tv. Ironically dtsma is becoming the most common hd audio track, so on the pass thru side this becomes a big issue (and makes it hard to justify charging a premium price)

That's what Dune does. Take away features and charge a hella alot more money for it. If I knew now 3 years ago I would have bought a Dune Prime 3 for every bed room in my house. Who would have known media players would get so lousy and cheap. The prime-time of media players was over a long time ago. We are just here looking for the scraps that these companies throw out at us.
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post #9219 of 10298
12/10/12 at 8:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opentoe View Post

That's what Dune does. Take away features and charge a hella alot more money for it. If I knew now 3 years ago I would have bought a Dune Prime 3 for every bed room in my house. Who would have known media players would get so lousy and cheap. The prime-time of media players was over a long time ago. We are just here looking for the scraps that these companies throw out at us.

No. This is what happens when you start paying licensing fees, and following the restirictions of such a license, to avoid being sued into oblivion.
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post #9220 of 10298
12/10/12 at 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by trondmm View Post


No. This is what happens when you start paying licensing fees, and following the restirictions of such a license, to avoid being sued into oblivion.

 

 

Exactly...

 

I'm sure if the BDA (Blu-ray Disc Association) has their way Dune HD and other media servers/streaming devices would not exist.  It has nothing to do with Dune taking away features by design.

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post #9221 of 10298
12/10/12 at 1:13pm
The licensing for DTS-HD should be fine though, Its not part of BDA, And there is no such license to cover "certain" formats. You pay for the right to use it per device, as well as you pay for however many channels you plan on downmixing, and outputting as PCM. There was a rumor about the player using an OLD bdstack to get bluray menus for non 3d stuff, I wonder if its used if you wont get DTS-HD then. Guess its wait and see what formats are effected. Or someone send an email asking.
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post #9222 of 10298
12/11/12 at 6:44am
With regards to DTS-HD and Dolby True-HD. Is it still the case that the Dune firmware no longer decodes these codecs? Is it also true that there is an "unofficial" patch out there that restores decoding with the current firmware? Just to be clear I'm talking about decoding to PCM not bitstreaming.
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post #9223 of 10298
12/11/12 at 3:47pm
This is only true for 101/301 models. Dts and dd hd never were officially supported, and the use of the unofficial patch seems a bit erratic (sometimes works, sometimes not)
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post #9224 of 10298
12/11/12 at 6:17pm
So the only way to get decoding on the Smart Series is to go back to the last firmware that supported it? I'm surprised it was never official because it was advertised as a feature back then.

ETA: In fact it is still an advertised feature at DunePlayer.com
Edited by obie_fl - 12/11/12 at 6:26pm
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post #9225 of 10298
12/12/12 at 1:49am
when I say "not official" I speak about the 101/301.

For Smart/Duo/Max decoding is official, but indeed it seems that latest firmware doesn't work (but it could be also a problem from the user set up as the mpcc thread seems to point out that some people with decoding problem were using low cost HDMI matrices)

Never tested the patch myself as I only use bitstream from my Smart to AVR. It seems to have better results on Smart models while on 101/301 most of the time it doesn't work...
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post #9226 of 10298
12/12/12 at 6:43am
You can always revert back to an older firmware (Dunes allow that). Mine are all on older ones.
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post #9227 of 10298
12/12/12 at 7:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post

You can always revert back to an older firmware (Dunes allow that). Mine are all on older ones.

Except this kills other features that I need for DFI.
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post #9228 of 10298
12/12/12 at 1:35pm
The patch works just fine on the smart series. One of my posts a while ago pointed to a download location.
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post #9229 of 10298
12/12/12 at 2:31pm
Let me try and make this clear - mostly for me as my new pre/pro is coming biggrin.gif.
Dune Smart D1 can “bitstream” – send unaltered, unchanged DTS-HDMA, DD-TrueHD (or whatever the name is) over HDMI for pre/pro to decode even with the latest firmware.
The patch is needed ONLY if you need these formats DECODED (in Dune) and sent as multichannel PCM over HDMI.
Please confirm (or correct if I’m wrong).
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post #9230 of 10298
12/12/12 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkeeling View Post

Let me try and make this clear - mostly for me as my new pre/pro is coming biggrin.gif.
Dune Smart D1 can “bitstream” – send unaltered, unchanged DTS-HDMA, DD-TrueHD (or whatever the name is) over HDMI for pre/pro to decode even with the latest firmware.
The patch is needed ONLY if you need these formats DECODED (in Dune) and sent as multichannel PCM over HDMI.
Please confirm (or correct if I’m wrong).

i believe thats correct, with "multichannel" being the keyword. it's my understanding that the new firmwares will still decode high res audio to pcm and send over hdmi, but it will be downmixed to 2 channel. i'm pretty sure decoding on the whole was never taken away. at least thats what i seem to remember reading in this thread when the first "limited" firmware came out. personally i still use an older firmware, and bitstream anything intended to end up as multichannel anyway.
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post #9231 of 10298
12/12/12 at 3:12pm
Thanks for the replies guys. I'm asking because to replace my Pre/Pro Anthem D2 to a D2v is like $8K eek.gif I'd like to stick to my D2 for a while even though it doesn't decode the HD audio codecs.
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post #9232 of 10298
12/13/12 at 8:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by absolootbs View Post

i believe thats correct, with "multichannel" being the keyword. it's my understanding that the new firmwares will still decode high res audio to pcm and send over hdmi, but it will be downmixed to 2 channel. i'm pretty sure decoding on the whole was never taken away. at least thats what i seem to remember reading in this thread when the first "limited" firmware came out. personally i still use an older firmware, and bitstream anything intended to end up as multichannel anyway.

Given that there's a patch that's been around for a while, why hasn't Dune provided an official fix yet? It's been a number of firmware updates since the problem was introduced.

Also, how stable is the patch with mkv's? I've applied the patch, and confirm that I do hear audio via LPCM, but I haven't watched enough to confirm that I indeed get audio from all channels (thus far the only material I've watched only outputs Front channels.
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post #9233 of 10298
12/13/12 at 8:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm asking because to replace my Pre/Pro Anthem D2 to a D2v is like $8K eek.gif I'd like to stick to my D2 for a while even though it doesn't decode the HD audio codecs.

I hear you. I also have a D2 and unfortunately Anthem no longer provides updates from the D2 to the D2v (ability to upgrade was a main reason I got a D2 a long time ago). Plus, D2v price has come up considerably compared to when D2 came out. I've got a lot of movies in my Smart D1 and increasingly more 7.1 audio tracks on my movies (yeah, I know, I can use Dolby surround to get rear channels sound, but Not the ideal for the stickler that I can be). Anyway, investment in software is tempting me to get a more updated Pre-pro...
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post #9234 of 10298
12/13/12 at 9:22pm
I was looking at the Dune HD Duo but not sure if it will work for my needs after reading.

Can the Duo do this or do I need to buy the Max since its 'last years' model?

  • Play BD Rip's with DTS-MA if its available. My AVR decodes it, or send out LPCM to the AVR in full resolution? This would be played off of a NAS, never locally.
  • Play from either ISO or Folder, or both?
  • Play multi-channel FLAC, again rips of my DVD-A's
  • Allow me to play the FLAC's either via HDMI or through the Analog outs

I am trying to go 100 percent diskless. I bought a BD Burner and played around with a few disks tonight. Ripped a few of my DVD-A's too

This device looked to fit the bill for what I wanted but now reading some of this stuff looks like I might have a problem with Cinevia.
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post #9235 of 10298
12/13/12 at 9:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_Connelly View Post

I was looking at the Dune HD Duo but not sure if it will work for my needs after reading.
Can the Duo do this or do I need to buy the Max since its 'last years' model?
  • Play BD Rip's with DTS-MA if its available. My AVR decodes it, or send out LPCM to the AVR in full resolution? This would be played off of a NAS, never locally.
  • Play from either ISO or Folder, or both?
  • Play multi-channel FLAC, again rips of my DVD-A's
  • Allow me to play the FLAC's either via HDMI or through the Analog outs
I am trying to go 100 percent diskless. I bought a BD Burner and played around with a few disks tonight. Ripped a few of my DVD-A's too
This device looked to fit the bill for what I wanted but now reading some of this stuff looks like I might have a problem with Cinevia.

The Smart D1 will do all that. I use it off my NAS exactly as you are describing with no issue. No need to get the Max at a higher price.
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post #9236 of 10298
12/13/12 at 10:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

The Smart D1 will do all that. I use it off my NAS exactly as you are describing with no issue. No need to get the Max at a higher price.

Analog outs.
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post #9237 of 10298
12/13/12 at 10:45pm
I use HDMI
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post #9238 of 10298
12/14/12 at 1:05am
So any Smart unit will do what you want. Just chose the one you need wink.gif

basically the Duo is just a smart H1 with 2 HDD racks in one big box.

regarding Cinavia, players including a BD drive and launched before feb/march 2012 don't have it, so it's not a problem. And anyway you won't find any player including a BD drive on the new 2012 models from all brands...
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post #9239 of 10298
12/14/12 at 3:22am
K thanks.

I still do not know why but I've never found anything that sounds as good as my analog cross over for DVD-A and even for regular audio CD's.

So the analog outs are a much have for me. Figured by now the digital side would have caught up.
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post #9240 of 10298
12/14/12 at 3:25am
You guys use an internal drive with any of the Dune Smarts? If so any issues with heat assuming you are using a green drive and you are using the drive for actual playback, not just system/jukebox storage?
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