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New Dune HD Max and HD Smart anticipation thread Q3 2010 - Page 309

post #9241 of 10805
Hi guys,

just one quick question: does the Dune Smart series still crash when choosing the 4:2:2 colorspace?

Thanks!
post #9242 of 10805
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

You guys use an internal drive with any of the Dune Smarts? If so any issues with heat assuming you are using a green drive and you are using the drive for actual playback, not just system/jukebox storage?

I'm using a WD 2TB Green (EARS if i remember correctly) in my D1. So far so good, no heat problem. I set up the dune to turn off instead of standby, this helps the HDD to return to cold state when not in use (but i can't see it on my network when it's off).

Before doing that my dune was on stand by mode and the HDD was a bit warm but not hot. i just turned it off mainly for power consumption reasons (trying to be a bit green myself smile.gif ).

I know that the first batch of smart didn't have vent holes and could get hot even with green HDD. Mine has those vents...
post #9243 of 10805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Eric View Post

I'm using a WD 2TB Green (EARS if i remember correctly) in my D1. So far so good, no heat problem. I set up the dune to turn off instead of standby, this helps the HDD to return to cold state when not in use (but i can't see it on my network when it's off).
Before doing that my dune was on stand by mode and the HDD was a bit warm but not hot. i just turned it off mainly for power consumption reasons (trying to be a bit green myself smile.gif ).
I know that the first batch of smart didn't have vent holes and could get hot even with green HDD. Mine has those vents...

Thx. I set my dad up with my PCH A300 (that was sitting around in my house b/c it was too buggy to use) with an internal drive. However, thinking about just getting a Dune (I have the D1 but maybe an H1 for him) and taking a bat to the A300. At least I know with the Dune I won't have to explain to him why certain movies don't work well, why he needs to switch audio tracks when a dropout occurs, etc...
post #9244 of 10805
Quote:
Originally Posted by randman View Post

Given that there's a patch that's been around for a while, why hasn't Dune provided an official fix yet? It's been a number of firmware updates since the problem was introduced.
Also, how stable is the patch with mkv's? I've applied the patch, and confirm that I do hear audio via LPCM, but I haven't watched enough to confirm that I indeed get audio from all channels (thus far the only material I've watched only outputs Front channels.
People keep calling it a bug, in reality I believe it was removed intentionally because of licensing issues. Their firmware notes said as much but it is now gone. I have no idea if the patch is sanctioned or its heritage. There is also some question as to whether it works on all revisions of the Smart hardware. I guess the only why to know for sure is to get one with a generous return policy. There are just too many conflicting reports to know for sure if it works as advertised.
post #9245 of 10805
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

Thx. I set my dad up with my PCH A300 (that was sitting around in my house b/c it was too buggy to use) with an internal drive. However, thinking about just getting a Dune (I have the D1 but maybe an H1 for him) and taking a bat to the A300. At least I know with the Dune I won't have to explain to him why certain movies don't work well, why he needs to switch audio tracks when a dropout occurs, etc...

I use to use a WD Green 2TB drive inside my D1(has vent holes) but it was noticeably hot to the touch. Id suggest using the optional drive bay that you can purchase along with it. I no longer need to as i have a NAS but sounds like you need either internal or the external single drive bay. Id suggest the Dune bay.
post #9246 of 10805
So do the Smart Series play DTS-MA or no?

According to the comparison web page none of the Smart series do support it:

AC3 (Dolby Digital) Up to 5.1
EAC3 (Dolby Digital Plus) No
Dolby True HD No
DTS Up to 5.1
DTS HD High Resolution Audio No
DTS HD Master Audio No


But from Duneplayer on the D1:

Extended support for Dolby True HD and DTS HD Master Audio: output bitstream (up to 7.1 channels) or decode to LPCM (up to 7.1 channels) for maximum flexibility when connecting audio equipment, and for extended support of advanced playback features (such as Picture-in-Picture).


So which is it? I was going to buy a Smart series to try it out, if it does what I want I'll move the Smart to the bedroom and then buy a HD Duo for the main room.
post #9247 of 10805
Eric I've been trying to get a straight answer on that for 6 months if you find out let me know. rolleyes.gif

Best I can tell is new out of the box they do not. You either have to revert to old firmware or apply some unofficial patch floating around the internet to the current firmware.
post #9248 of 10805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_Connelly View Post

So do the Smart Series play DTS-MA or no?
According to the comparison web page none of the Smart series do support it:
AC3 (Dolby Digital) Up to 5.1
EAC3 (Dolby Digital Plus) No
Dolby True HD No
DTS Up to 5.1
DTS HD High Resolution Audio No
DTS HD Master Audio No

But from Duneplayer on the D1:

Extended support for Dolby True HD and DTS HD Master Audio: output bitstream (up to 7.1 channels) or decode to LPCM (up to 7.1 channels) for maximum flexibility when connecting audio equipment, and for extended support of advanced playback features (such as Picture-in-Picture).

So which is it? I was going to buy a Smart series to try it out, if it does what I want I'll move the Smart to the bedroom and then buy a HD Duo for the main room.

I've got a Dune D1 Smart series with the latest firmware and it plays HD sounds tracks without any issues. It even displays them on my AVR as suchs. I've got my audio set to bitstream.
post #9249 of 10805
All smart/duo/max models play all hd audio in bitstream mode, no problem. Problem can be for the hd audio decoding over Hdmi, doesn't seem to have this problem when using optical output. and dune website specs are completely stupid...
post #9250 of 10805
Bitstreaming is not decoding it is bitstreaming i.e. your receiver is doing the decoding and playing. The issue is the Dunes decoding no longer works. This is why it is so difficult to get a straight answer on this issue, every time it is brought up all the bitstreamers pop-up and say things are fine.
post #9251 of 10805
I have the same setup as you are describing. Duo in the living room and a h1 in the bedroom. I am up to date on all FW, and I use a sc37 reciever in the living room. Everything is over HDMI and I bit stream to the sc37 now the H1 goes directly to the tv and every movie when playing pops up DTS HD MA on the tv screen and the sc37
post #9252 of 10805
Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

Bitstreaming is not decoding it is bitstreaming i.e. your receiver is doing the decoding and playing. The issue is the Dunes decoding no longer works. This is why it is so difficult to get a straight answer on this issue, every time it is brought up all the bitstreamers pop-up and say things are fine.

My understanding is the following for HD Audio:

- HDMI - Passthru OK / Downmix only to 2ch stereo (possible fw hack fix?)

- Optical - Core HD track or multi ch passthru

I don't use optical so I can't confirm this, just going based on what others are saying
post #9253 of 10805
I have a Dune Smart D1 and a processor that takes LPCM input but cannot decode DTS-HD MA and True HD. Prior to applying the patch/workaround, the Dune could not decode these to LPCM properly.

I then installed the patch. To test it, I converted tests from the AIX calibration disc to mkv to play on my Dune. Below are the results of my testing:

Test Results of Dune LPCM decoding:
1. AIX True HD 7.1: no sub sound
2. AIX DTS-HD MA: no sound, but I can play 5.1 DTS-HD Movies. I can also play 7.1 DTS-HD MA movies
3. AIX 7.1 PCM: no sound. Still need to verify with an actual movie
4. AIX 5.1 PCM: ok
5. AIX 5.1 DD (AC3): ok
6. AIX 5.1 DTS: ok
7. AIX 2.0 PCM: ok
8. AIX 2.0 AC3: ok

Tests 4 to 8 passed. Test 2 is questionable because it failed with the AIX DTS-HD mkv but I can actually play DTS-HD MA mkv movies from Blu-Ray just fine.

Test 1: I don't know why the sub doesn't play. The other speakers play fine.

Test 3: still need to play an actual movie.

If I had another processor or receiver that can decode the Hugh def sources, I can confirm that the mkv's are or are not ok. But I don't have one.

Anyway, these are my results. I am debating whether this is a good excuse to upgrade my processor.

Note: my processor only takes 5.1 LPCM input even though I have 7.1 speakers. So I have the Dune output 5.1 LPCM instead of 7.1. I use Dolby PLIIx to send surround to my 2 rear speakers.
post #9254 of 10805
Do I have to repeat myself over & over... MKV+FLAC FTW!!!!! Never a problem with any audio format whatsoever.
post #9255 of 10805
Thanks Randman very nice post but I still have questions.

So Dolby True HD doesn't work with movies either?
DTS-HD MA plays but are you sure you are getting the HD and not just the core?

I doubt #3 will work because you are telling it to do something your processor can't handle. I guess it depends if the processors EDID is ignored or not.

Thanks again.
post #9256 of 10805
So since DTS-MA is important to me this is not going to work.
post #9257 of 10805
Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

Thanks Randman very nice post but I still have questions.
So Dolby True HD doesn't work with movies either?
DTS-HD MA plays but are you sure you are getting the HD and not just the core?
I doubt #3 will work because you are telling it to do something your processor can't handle. I guess it depends if the processors EDID is ignored or not.
Thanks again.

I haven't confirmed whether or not I get sub sound out of movies that are Dolby TrueHD. With the AIX mkv I do not.

DTS HD movies play but I don't know about the answer to your question. The Dune says it is playing the DTS HD audio track.

For no 3, maybe Dube doesn't down mix 7.1 LPCM to 5.1??

Anyway, I need a good excuse to upgrade my processor. Maybe this is it? I have a lot of movies so...
post #9258 of 10805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_Connelly View Post

So since DTS-MA is important to me this is not going to work.

DTS HD MA ? Bitstream (= decoded by your AVR) or LPCM (= decoded by the dune) ? Which one do you want as "DTS HD MA" alone doesn't mean anything...

PS : DUO = Smart, there's 0 difffrence between those 2, except the form factor.
post #9259 of 10805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post

Do I have to repeat myself over & over... MKV+FLAC FTW!!!!! Never a problem with any audio format whatsoever.

Hi Killroy,

I have a Smart H1 and MKV+FLAC does not work. Dune does not even recognize the audio, It says no audio, The same file works with Oppo. I created the file using MakeMKV. What did you use to create the MKV file?

Thanks.
post #9260 of 10805
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinoiski View Post

Hi Killroy,
I have a Smart H1 and MKV+FLAC does not work. Dune does not even recognize the audio, It says no audio, The same file works with Oppo. I created the file using MakeMKV. What did you use to create the MKV file?
Thanks.

How did you create a FLAC MKV with MakeMKV, I don't recall ever seeing that option ?

I tested FLAC + mkv on my Dunes and they work fine ( I created with either ANother eac3toGUI or Clown_BD + MKVMerge)
post #9261 of 10805
Just curious, why not just bitstream the lossless audio and let the AVR decode it? Why is it important to some that the Dune do the decoding? I'm not questioning that it is important; I can see that it is to some. I'm just curious why?

Also, just wanted to add that registering Zappitti was quick and easy with an online receipt I had. Didn't even have to scan anything. Great program, especially since it's free! Quick question, how do I back up the Zappitti database, and is it easy to restore if it becomes necessary?

Thanks!
post #9262 of 10805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnak View Post

Just curious, why not just bitstream the lossless audio and let the AVR decode it? Why is it important to some that the Dune do the decoding? I'm not questioning that it is important; I can see that it is to some. I'm just curious why?
Also, just wanted to add that registering Zappitti was quick and easy with an online receipt I had. Didn't even have to scan anything. Great program, especially since it's free! Quick question, how do I back up the Zappitti database, and is it easy to restore if it becomes necessary?
Thanks!

Not everyone has the hardware to do it. SOme people have older AVRs that don't support the full HD format. Also, when you connect directly to a TV you will need the Dune to downmix HD Audio

As far as Zappiti, just backup the folder where your Zappiti database is (UserData)
post #9263 of 10805
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

How did you create a FLAC MKV with MakeMKV, I don't recall ever seeing that option ?
I tested FLAC + mkv on my Dunes and they work fine ( I created with either ANother eac3toGUI or Clown_BD + MKVMerge)

Preferences ==> General tab ==> Check the expert mode.

Close MakeMKV and re-open. Click on preferences again and you will a new tab called Advanced. From there you could select a different profile.

Here's a link for a profile that will covert to FLAC.

http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5749

By the way, here is the Media info for the MKV+FLAC that did not work in my Dune.

General
Unique ID : 96615953232129960103738954961631689121 (0x48AF8E453533EF370A46F6E92B4DB9A1)
Complete name : Y:\title00.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 24.0 GiB
Duration : 2h 30mn
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 22.8 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2012-12-16 07:00:41
Writing application : MakeMKV v1.7.9 win(x64-release)
Writing library : libmakemkv v1.7.9 (1.2.0/1.1.0) win(x64-release)

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=24
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 2h 30mn
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No

Audio
ID : 2
Format : FLAC
Format/Info : Free Lossless Audio Codec
Codec ID : A_FLAC
Duration : 2h 30mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Title : 3/2+1
Writing library : MakeMKV v1.7.9 win(x64-release)
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No

Text #1
ID : 3
Format : PGS
Codec ID : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info : The same subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No

Text #2
ID : 5
Format : PGS
Codec ID : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info : The same subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No

Menu
00:00:00.000 : en:Chapter 00
00:04:18.925 : en:Chapter 01
00:09:53.009 : en:Chapter 02
00:12:13.441 : en:Chapter 03
00:19:09.064 : en:Chapter 04
00:23:53.473 : en:Chapter 05
00:30:15.480 : en:Chapter 06
00:35:29.418 : en:Chapter 07
00:40:32.930 : en:Chapter 08
00:46:28.035 : en:Chapter 09
00:50:25.564 : en:Chapter 10
00:56:18.625 : en:Chapter 11
00:59:52.380 : en:Chapter 12
01:05:45.191 : en:Chapter 13
01:11:55.853 : en:Chapter 14
01:17:04.327 : en:Chapter 15
01:22:10.258 : en:Chapter 16
01:30:36.639 : en:Chapter 17
01:34:38.172 : en:Chapter 18
01:39:21.830 : en:Chapter 19
01:44:52.410 : en:Chapter 20
01:49:14.714 : en:Chapter 21
01:54:55.805 : en:Chapter 22
01:59:36.043 : en:Chapter 23
02:04:59.908 : en:Chapter 24
02:10:27.194 : en:Chapter 25
02:16:20.630 : en:Chapter 26
02:21:04.789 : en:Chapter 27
post #9264 of 10805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Eric View Post

DTS HD MA ? Bitstream (= decoded by your AVR) or LPCM (= decoded by the dune) ? Which one do you want as "DTS HD MA" alone doesn't mean anything...
PS : DUO = Smart, there's 0 difffrence between those 2, except the form factor.

Then why does the Dune website specifically state that the Smart only does 2.0 and the Duo does it in 7.1?
post #9265 of 10805
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

Not everyone has the hardware to do it. SOme people have older AVRs that don't support the full HD format. Also, when you connect directly to a TV you will need the Dune to downmix HD Audio
As far as Zappiti, just backup the folder where your Zappiti database is (UserData)

Thanks Dbone! OK, that makes sense. I assumed any AVR with HDMI did lossless.

As far as BD menu support, are the Smart series Dunes going to keep that, and are they going to continue making them? Or do we need to stock up now? I only use it on a very few movies, but it is nice to have. I could never figure out how to do main movie with subs correctly with the Avengers. I finally just did the whole disc. I know I could go through a few hoops and do it, but it's just so easy to one click with DVDFab and put the ISO on the local storage. For the occasional movie that doesn't work that way, I just do the same thing except full disc. My whole goal is to spend the minimum amount of time. I even gave up on Raid, it's just so much quicker for me to keep a full backup of all HDDs. Elegant? No. Quick and easy? Yes. A couple of clicks to make the ISO, a drag & drop to local storage, a double click on a LapLink shortcut to back it all up.

Do the studios realize how many people are going to buy fewer movies if all of their schemes at copy protection work out? I buy more movies 'cause it's easy and fun to put 'em in a video jukebox. Take that away and I'll only buy my absolute favorites and just Netflix (actual disc) the rest. Outlaw copies and only outlaws will make copies. Does that make sense??? smile.gif It really does I think. The guys pirating movies are always going to pirate them. Guys who buy movies to make their own copies are the only ones who the mental midget lawyers are going to stop.
post #9266 of 10805
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinoiski View Post

Hi Killroy,
I have a Smart H1 and MKV+FLAC does not work. Dune does not even recognize the audio, It says no audio, The same file works with Oppo. I created the file using MakeMKV. What did you use to create the MKV file?
Thanks.

No offense to you but let me be blunt here...

MakeMKV is the worst piece of crap software ever created.

Make your life so much easier. Get eac3to command line, mkvMerge and life will be better. You will argue with me and say that MakeMKV is fine but trust me. Nothing good comes from that bloated and possibly evil software.

eac3to (command line)+mkvMerge with over 130TB cannot be wrong....not a single issue.

EDITED- I quoted the wrong person... not directed at Damian.
post #9267 of 10805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post

MakeMKV is the worst piece of crap software ever created.... ...Nothing good comes from that bloated and possibly evil software.

Dude, you're holding back. You need to learn how express your feelings and not suppress them. smile.gif Just joshing you!
post #9268 of 10805
Question for Base 3.0 users.

I have just bought a Base 3.0 to use in a 2nd room, previously just had a Smart D1.

Got the Base up and running fine, but ran across a strange issue. For the short term, it is connected to an old SD tube television, so it's outputting at 480 NTSC. I have tried it via component and composite on this issue.

Playing from a DVD full disc ISO file, when at the DVD menu: example. The selection in the menu for "play movie" (or any other) is normally in tan text, but whatever is highlighted in the menu changes to yellow text. Which ever is highlighted to be selected, the yellow text is showing up above the tan, so you actually see both the tan and yellow separately. The tan text in the correct position, but the yellow covers up some of the the other menu item above. My D1 connected to an HD TV functions just fine on the same ISO. This appears to hold true for any DVD menu. If the menu has some other way of highlighting the selected item it is similarly out of place (IE a box supposed to be around the text is floating in space). I only have a few full BD ISO's and the one I checked did not have the same issue.

Has anyone seen this before? Does it have anything to do with the SD TV and analog video?

When I get back in town later this week, I will plug this unit into my HDTV and see if it behaves the same.

Thanks for any insight.

EDIT: both units are on the current firmware, just updated today.

The Base 3.0 is a recent purchase on Ebay and looks in flawless condition. I can't imagine how this could be a unit problem, but am looking for any thoughts.
Edited by TODDAVS - 12/16/12 at 11:27pm
post #9269 of 10805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_Connelly View Post

Then why does the Dune website specifically state that the Smart only does 2.0 and the Duo does it in 7.1?

because the Duo has a 7.1 analog output that will always work for decoding, while the Smarts have to use HDMI and this is where the problem is...

With the non official patch some people can decode HD audio through HDMI (to LPCM x.1), while some other can't and just have 2.0. So officially they can say the smart is able to decode over HDMI...

But what we are sure about : bitstream works perfectly, using optical output works too (but I guess you only have 5.1 core DTS/DD)
post #9270 of 10805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirnak View Post

Thanks Dbone! OK, that makes sense. I assumed any AVR with HDMI did lossless.
As far as BD menu support, are the Smart series Dunes going to keep that, and are they going to continue making them? Or do we need to stock up now? I only use it on a very few movies, but it is nice to have. I could never figure out how to do main movie with subs correctly with the Avengers. I finally just did the whole disc. I know I could go through a few hoops and do it, but it's just so easy to one click with DVDFab and put the ISO on the local storage. For the occasional movie that doesn't work that way, I just do the same thing except full disc. My whole goal is to spend the minimum amount of time. I even gave up on Raid, it's just so much quicker for me to keep a full backup of all HDDs. Elegant? No. Quick and easy? Yes. A couple of clicks to make the ISO, a drag & drop to local storage, a double click on a LapLink shortcut to back it all up.
Do the studios realize how many people are going to buy fewer movies if all of their schemes at copy protection work out? I buy more movies 'cause it's easy and fun to put 'em in a video jukebox. Take that away and I'll only buy my absolute favorites and just Netflix (actual disc) the rest. Outlaw copies and only outlaws will make copies. Does that make sense??? smile.gif It really does I think. The guys pirating movies are always going to pirate them. Guys who buy movies to make their own copies are the only ones who the mental midget lawyers are going to stop.

From my understanding BD menu will stay for the previous models (smart/duo/max) as those models are built with a pre-cinavia BD stack.

Regarding the rest of your post : +1000
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