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The Official Marantz SR7005 Receiver Page!! - Page 67

post #1981 of 2387
Press the A/D [analog/digital] button at the top of the Marantz remote to switch between 7.1 analog / HDMI / stereo analog / auto. You want to set it to 7.1 analog or stereo analog, depending on your connections, to bypass the digital audio. Then press the P. Direct button near the bottom to turn off digital effects in the processor. This will allow the DACs in the Oppo to pass through as 'untouched' as possible. I do this with my BDP-95 and the Marantz and it sounds beautiful.
post #1982 of 2387
Thanks!. Would this be the same for Apple TV? I was told to hook it into the Oppo via HDMI. The DAC will over ride the digital audio? I also plan on hooking my squeezebox touch into the Oppo via optical input . I assume no further adjustments are needed?
post #1983 of 2387
Having to bypass the [Audyssey] room correction and bass management capabilities of the SR7005, just so that one can hear the "audible superiority" of the DACs in the Oppo, is a really bad move, IMHO.

edit to add: The DACs in the SR7005 are perfectly adequate and don't compromise the sound.
post #1984 of 2387
thanks for you input. I really never hear many people rave about the internal DAC in the SR7005. Its something to think about before dropping extra cash for the Oppo 105. maybe I should think about the 103?
post #1985 of 2387
To my ears, there's a big difference between the Oppo's DACs and the SR7005's. Starting with the noise floor, which is much lower in the Oppo. You'll have to decide for yourself, but I think the dedicated DACs for the analog output in the Oppo were worth the expense.
post #1986 of 2387
If your AV7005 generates noise that's audible at any significant distance from a speaker, then your AV7005 is defective.
post #1987 of 2387
Don't think my SR7005 is defective; the noise floor is perfectly acceptable. I would say, though, that there's less noise with the unprocessed Oppo through analog.
post #1988 of 2387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christoph1122 View Post

To my ears, there's a big difference between the Oppo's DACs and the SR7005's. Starting with the noise floor, which is much lower in the Oppo. .
Quote:
Don't think my SR7005 is defective; the noise floor is perfectly acceptable.]

So which is it, then? "A big difference" or the "inferior" one, the SR7005, is already "perfectly acceptable"?
post #1989 of 2387
There's a big difference. Inferior doesn't imply unacceptable.
post #1990 of 2387
So both are "perfectly acceptable" then, since that's the status you already deem the "inferior" of the two, the SR7005, yet there's also a "big difference" from the seated position? Whatever.

Moving along, tell us, you mentioned that this "big difference", which is also perfectly acceptable, at least regarding noise, even on the lesser one, is where you "start" in describing the big difference you say you hear between the two. Tell us, what else do you hear as being audibly different between these two DACs beyond this start? Please use scientific, measurable parameters, just as you have already with the noise floor example (which could be measured in dB below full scale output, with or without A-weighting, using instrumentation, for example), not touchy-feely terms like "it's more real/3D" which as you know can't be verified using measurements. Thanks.
post #1991 of 2387
Thanks for the responses. If my primary listening is streamed from my computer to my touch is the DAC in the SR7005 sufficient , or should I get a external DAC( like Peachtree Dacit)? I'd love to know if its going to make a difference ?
post #1992 of 2387
Don't have anything scientific or measurable, just my opinion. SR7005 is more noisy and it's quite obvious to me. Not a deal breaker - I listen to it all the time. But when I switch to the Oppo, the difference seems clear to me. Can't answer your questions with numbers, at the moment.
post #1993 of 2387
Does anyone know why the displays are turned off during "Pure direct mode"?
post #1994 of 2387
Quote:
Originally Posted by gelly View Post

Does anyone know why the displays are turned off during "Pure direct mode"?

Because that's what "Pure Direct" is designed to do. It turns off everything it can which might possibly cause any kind of interference. (Although any such interference is actually inaudible.) If you want to see the display, select only "Direct".
post #1995 of 2387
Good morning Gelly, and everyone!

I have the 7005 in the theater and acquired a PM8003 for the PC 2 channel listening area. Along with that between the PC and Marantz I have a HRT Music Streamer II+ and am very pleased with it. I had the MSII then upgraded a couple of years ago. I highly recommend High Resolution Technologies, very nice company and people to deal with. For the money, they just can't be beat. And, they do not take up any room because of their small size.

Currently I am listening to Paradigm Atom Monitors, which are generally used for the height speakers with the 7005, but, I am in the process of deciding which speakers I want to build for in this....the office area. However with these litle speakers, the bass is rediculous for 5" drivers, (I think), engulfing, the sound is everywhere. After I did my first DIY speaker, I realized I would never buy another speaker, well probably not anyway, and that if these little Atoms sounded as good as they do with the Marantz/MSII+ combo, how would a well designed DIY pair in this small room do, excellent, I believe.

Anyway, there is a lot out there, so good luck. I have heard good things about Peachtree Products.
post #1996 of 2387
So, Selden Ball, Pure Direct/Source Direct....the same?

I have been trying to find out if I am going to like a sub with the PM8003 2 channel, since I like Source Direct so much.

Also, I really, really like SD on the 8003 and PD on the 7005 much better than stereo with a sub.
post #1997 of 2387
Thanks woodsart, I'm still trying to decide whats best. I dont mind spend a little extra for the Oppo 105 vd the 103 + the Peachtree Dacit if its a better solution. What im concerned with the later is when i play a CD/SACD from the 103, it will not be going through a DAC.
post #1998 of 2387
Ha Ha, you sound as bad as I am with wanting the best sound possible. Most do. Sounds like this set is will be in your theater area, right?

I use the iphone5/ipad to stream Spotify Premimum and am extremely pleased with it. My Oppo is left out of the equaision completely. I have been very happy with Spotify and as I mentioned Marantz is also as they are including it along with several of their new units. AirPlay works really well with the 7005 since it does not have Spotify.

I also have SACDs, but still prefer the streaming in the theater too even though it does not have the MSII+. Don't get me wrong the Oppo sounds great with Bluray/SACDs as well.

Of course, I do not have a DAC either, just Oppo/Marantz/speakers. (: I would try that first, then if you are not happy then invest in another toy!!! I think you will be happy with this combo though.
post #1999 of 2387
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsart View Post

So, Selden Ball, Pure Direct/Source Direct....the same?
Effectively, yes. Source Direct disables analog audio processing (bass and treble) in the PM8003. Pure Direct in the SR7005 and other Marantz surround-sound receivers and pre/pros disables digital audio processing (bass management, Audyssey, ProLogic, etc) and also disables some other circuits.
Quote:
I have been trying to find out if I am going to like a sub with the PM8003 2 channel, since I like Source Direct so much.

Also, I really, really like SD on the 8003 and PD on the 7005 much better than stereo with a sub.

Don't forget that subwoofers have to be placed properly in a room to get the best audio results. Also, if you don't use the bass management circuits in the receiver or amp, you'll need to use the bass management provided by the subwoofer so that its upper frequency bound properly integrates with the low-frequency limits of your main speakers.
post #2000 of 2387
Thanks Selden, the bass management is an issue with me, I have a direct servo in the theater, but I don't think it is set correct, but audyssey does a pretty good job for theater, since that is all I use it for anyway. I have Jeff Bagbys Triton TL towers there and for 2 channel they provide acceptable bass. I am not a "huge bass" kind of guy.

I am just trying to figure out with the 8003 in the office, do I want a sub or 2 speakers with sufficient bass.

Bass/trebble controls are silenced with the Source direct on the 8003 as well as the 7005.

I don't seem to fully understand how this works for some reason, but I am sure I will figure it out. I just can't make a DIY decision until i do. The goal is the purest, cleanest sound I can get with the new speakers and if I can achieve that with a sub then the speaker choice may be easier. Or would the source direct be the best for 2 channel listening without a sub?
post #2001 of 2387
I suppose a lot depends on whether you're going to use it only for background music while you're working (2-way bookshelf speakers), if you expect to do some critical listening there (3-way floor standing + quality subwoofer), or if there are other people working nearby who would be disturbed by the low frequencies (no subwoofer). Remember that the lowest frequencies travel easily through walls and floors. They can be quite distracting and annoying if you can't hear the upper frequencies, and often if you can wink.gif
post #2002 of 2387
Thanks!'

Actually casual/critical and yes the sub would have to be tamed indeed. The build I am thinking without a sub, (but a sub can be added later), is the Kairos 2 way by Jeff, so far this really seems to have good bass extension, but very pricey. His Continuum are simply outstanding, but need a sub with those. I do not mind a sub and really would not forsee any problems with one.

Just love Source direct!!!!
post #2003 of 2387
[This is a general post and is not meant to specifically address the previous one]

Pure Direct and Source Direct are worthless marketing gimmicks (that don't even work exactly as advertised, but that's a side issue). They cater to the "audiophile" "purist" mentality that one's speakers are "perfect" (and their room acoustics, at least for the limited number of them who understand how critical a speaker's placement, angling, and the room shape, etc., profoundly alters the tonal balance) and therefor thinks, "We don't need no stinking band-aid, electrical modification called EQ, thank you very much". They seem to forget that the very speakers themselves have a much more primitive EQ circuit already built in: their, OMG, passive crossover, prone to all sorts of colorations and phase issues, etc that make any "shortcomings" of the active circuits look quite benign in comparison.

This exact same mentality is also why we have the ridiculous and audibly destructive "LFE + main" or "double bass" feature in most if not all current brands, which should be patently avoided by all even if one's speakers have multiple 15 inch woofers and are the size of refrigerators, assuming there is a competent sub being used, that is. It is in place to stroke the ego of buyers with big speakers.

Many of you who have worked in this industry for many decades, like I have, may remember the third option after "source" and "pure" called "CD Direct" back when CDs were new and all gear had to have a stamp of "CD Ready" to pass muster with the naive consumers. What did it do? Well it bypassed the potentially sound bastardizing aspects of one's input selector, of course, and lay a direct path from the CD input straight to the preamp. "But what if that direct switch itself introduces the exact same sort of problem that the input selector knob is being accused of introducing?", one might ask. "Shut up. You need whatever gimmick we tell you you need!" replied the audio vendors.

Me? I'm waiting for "Ultra Pure SACD Direct Bypass PRO" which, not only bypasses the tonal balance, ch. trim, delay circuits, bass management, and illuminated indication that it is even engaged, not to mention the input selector, it even bypasses the preamp section entirely so your variable volume out SACD player, with its wonderful DACs, drives the power amp itself, without any "colorations" that the lowly, pedestrian hobbyists stupidly endure. "But what if the variable volume out circuit of the SACD player itself has the same distortions as the..." "SHUT UP AND JUST BUY IT ALREADY!"tongue.gif
Edited by m. zillch - 3/22/13 at 11:20am
post #2004 of 2387
Indeed.

I suggest you not visit the AV8801 thread. Your blood pressure would not survive.

*sigh*
post #2005 of 2387
^ Roger that.
post #2006 of 2387
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

[This is a general post and is not meant to specifically address the previous one]

Pure Direct and Source Direct are worthless marketing gimmicks (that don't even work exactly as advertised, but that's a side issue). They cater to the "audiophile" "purist" mentality that one's speakers are "perfect" (and their room acoustics, at least for the limited number of them who understand how critical a speaker's placement, angling, and the room shape, etc., profoundly alters the tonal balance) and therefor thinks, "We don't need no stinking band-aid, electrical modification called EQ, thank you very much". They seem to forget that the very speakers themselves have a much more primitive EQ circuit already built in: their, OMG, passive crossover, prone to all sorts of colorations and phase issues, etc that make any "shortcomings" of the active circuits look quite benign in comparison.

This exact same mentality is also why we have the ridiculous and audibly destructive "LFE + main" or "double bass" feature in most if not all current brands, which should be patently avoided by all even if one's speakers have multiple 15 inch woofers and are the size of refrigerators, assuming there is a competent sub being used, that is. It is in place to stroke the ego of buyers with big speakers.

Many of you who have worked in this industry for many decades, like I have, may remember the third option after "source" and "pure" called "CD Direct" back when CDs were new and all gear had to have a stamp of "CD Ready" to pass muster with the naive consumers. What did it do? Well it bypassed the potentially sound bastardizing aspects of one's input selector, of course, and lay a direct path from the CD input straight to the preamp. "But what if that direct switch itself introduces the exact same sort of problem that the input selector knob is being accused of introducing?", one might ask. "Shut up. You need whatever gimmick we tell you you need!" replied the audio vendors.

Me? I'm waiting for "Ultra Pure SACD Direct Bypass PRO" which, not only bypasses the tonal balance, ch. trim, delay circuits, bass management, and illuminated indication that it is even engaged, not to mention the input selector, it even bypasses the preamp section entirely so your variable volume out SACD player, with its wonderful DACs, drives the power amp itself, without any "colorations" that the lowly, pedestrian hobbyists stupidly endure. "But what if the variable volume out circuit of the SACD player itself has the same distortions as the..." "SHUT UP AND JUST BUY IT ALREADY!"tongue.gif

I read this earlier today and cracked up laughing! I just re-read it again; still laughing out loud! zllch is in rare form...
post #2007 of 2387
Still wondering: does anyone have any experience pairing the new 7-channel Marantz MM8077 amplifier with the SR7005?
post #2008 of 2387
That would be a lot of money to spend for only a marginally more powerful, ie can play louder if need be, upgrade.

In continuous, all channel simultaneous output ,the SR7005 was measured by Home Theater magazine as:

"Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 91.2 watts
1% distortion at 112.1 watts

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 74.6 watts
1% distortion at 89.6 watts"

and into 4 ohm [I think they mean stereo} "Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 200.1 watts and 1 percent distortion at 222.6 watts".

They measured the MM8077 as:

"Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 113.9 watts
1% distortion at 125.4 watts

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 108.9 watts
1% distortion at 116.8 watts"

into 4 ohm [stereo] "Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 220.2 watts and 1 percent distortion at 241.8 watts".

This is a trivial difference in loudness, barely even noticeable, on the order of 1 to 2 dB. You can experience it yourself by turning your existing volume knob up/down by 1 to 2 dB, depending on your exact circumstances. Is that worth $2400?

Separates don't automatically sound better than receivers. That's a pervasive myth spread by the high-end audio retail machine and the magazines which cater to them in exchange for advertising dollars, in their attempt to sell more profitable, generally higher margin goods, more typically sold in "protected markets".

There's nothing beyond this difference in power (which isn't all that big), such as the frequency response, ch. separation, noise, THD, or crosstalk that would suggest there would be any audible advantage in switching to the MM8077.

If you want better sound, change your source material, your room, your speaker placement, your speaker tilt/angle/toe-in/height, your rug/drapes/furniture/decor, your speakers,...
Edited by m. zillch - 3/25/13 at 6:23pm
post #2009 of 2387
I don't agree a lot with m. zillch (although I always respect his opinion), but i have to agree with the above.

If you want to upgrade, you'll have to go the AV8801+MM8077 route which gives XT32 and separates for $5,000 (including the $1,000 combo discount). You should be able to get it for about 20% less if you shop around. Assuming you can sell your receiver for $500, you can get a AV8801+MM8077 combo for a $3,500 upgrade fee or purchase the amp itself for $2,000. $1,500 is a lot of money, but THAT would be a significant upgrade smile.gif
post #2010 of 2387
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

That would be a lot of money to spend for only a marginally more powerful, ie can play louder if need be, upgrade.

In continuous, all channel simultaneous output ,the SR7005 was measured by Home Theater magazine as:

"Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 91.2 watts
1% distortion at 112.1 watts

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 74.6 watts
1% distortion at 89.6 watts"

and into 4 ohm [I think they mean stereo} "Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 200.1 watts and 1 percent distortion at 222.6 watts".

They measured the MM8077 as:

"Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 113.9 watts
1% distortion at 125.4 watts

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 108.9 watts
1% distortion at 116.8 watts"

into 4 ohm [stereo] "Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 220.2 watts and 1 percent distortion at 241.8 watts".

This is a trivial difference in loudness, barely even noticeable, on the order of 1 to 2 dB. You can experience it yourself by turning your existing volume knob up/down by 1 to 2 dB, depending on your exact circumstances. Is that worth $2400?

Separates don't automatically sound better than receivers. That's a pervasive myth spread by the high-end audio retail machine and the magazines which cater to them in exchange for advertising dollars, in their attempt to sell more profitable, generally higher margin goods, more typically sold in "protected markets".

There's nothing beyond this difference in power (which isn't all that big), such as the frequency response, ch. separation, noise, THD, or crosstalk that would suggest there would be any audible advantage in switching to the MM8077.

If you want better sound, change your source material, your room, your speaker placement, your speaker tilt/angle/toe-in/height, your rug/drapes/furniture/decor, your speakers,...

Thanks for your detailed answer, zillch; I appreciate the thoroughness of your reply!

Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

I don't agree a lot with m. zillch (although I always respect his opinion), but i have to agree with the above.

If you want to upgrade, you'll have to go the AV8801+MM8077 route which gives XT32 and separates for $5,000 (including the $1,000 combo discount). You should be able to get it for about 20% less if you shop around. Assuming you can sell your receiver for $500, you can get a AV8801+MM8077 combo for a $3,500 upgrade fee or purchase the amp itself for $2,000. $1,500 is a lot of money, but THAT would be a significant upgrade smile.gif

I have been following the AV8801 thread for some time now. Would love to purchase the Marantz combo, but, quite frankly, it is out of my reach at this time. I was wondering about pairing the Marantz 7-channel amp with my current SR7005 as an interim upgrade until I could find the money later on for the new XT32-equipped AV8801. Thanks for you reply, too, exm. You and zillch have both given me food for thought.
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