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Official LG xxLD550 xxLD520 xxLD650 Owners Thread - Page 118

post #3511 of 5070
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by illini1958 View Post

. Are all 47s IPS? Thats one of the main reasons I bought this one.

Pretty much have to be IPS since LG makes that size and I don't remember hearing anyone getting another type. If you are there when the service people replace it, ask to see the label on the panel before it's put in and compare numbers with the original.
post #3512 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Pretty much have to be IPS since LG makes that size and I don't remember hearing anyone getting another type. If you are there when the service people replace it, ask to see the label on the panel before it's put in and compare numbers with the original.

Thats what I thought but was not sure. Yea, I'll be there and will check #. Thanks.
post #3513 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Wouldn't it be best to put stb on 720p rather than 1080i?

In addition to what csamos said, here's my take on this. I have to choose one or the other on my FIOS STB. I choose to send 1080i because if I do 720p, then a 1080i signal has to be 'scrunched' to 720p by the STB, only to be 'stretched' to 1080 by the TV. That's a lot of manipulation.
post #3514 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by djams View Post

In addition to what csamos said, here's my take on this. I have to choose one or the other on my FIOS STB. I choose to send 1080i because if I do 720p, then a 1080i signal has to be 'scrunched' to 720p by the STB, only to be 'stretched' to 1080 by the TV. That's a lot of manipulation.


Thanks, that's the piece of the puzzle that I was over looking.
post #3515 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by csamos View Post

I would really love to get my colorimeter on your tv to measure what it is doing compared to mine. Do you have an S-IPS panel? What backlight setting are you using?

Hey, I'd love for you to get your colorimeter on my tv too! If you happen to be in Hawaii with your calibration equipment, I'll supply the beer. =)

Yes, my panel is S-IPS. It has the famous "w" in the product code, and I verified by using a magnifying glass to examine the pixels. The ambient light in our living room is very bright, so I run the backlight at 65 during the day to get a satisfying picture. When daylight starts diminishing I'll use minimal power saving and at night with the lights off I'll switch to medium.
post #3516 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

I have the 47LD520 as well. I'm not sure what you mean by lowering the IRE 100 settings on the red from 13 to 5.

Otto,

csamos was correct in his explanation of what I meant. I know your question and csamos' answer were several pages ago, but I just wanted to give confirmation.
post #3517 of 5070
@sheshechic

I did my quick and dirty upscaling test this evening. The Sony DVD player will upconvert to 1080i/p, and 720p. If you set it to Auto, it's supposed to upconvert to the max resolution that your tv can handle. So, with Disk 1, Episode 1 of BG, I watched the first 30 minutes at 1080p (1080/60p) and then the same 30 minutes at 720p (720/60p). Settings used were Phase's HDMI Expert 1. Ambient light only, TruMotion off, and Energy Savings off.

I had another set of eyes with me (my son's) and both of us felt that the pq was a tad bit better (clearer and with less graininess) at 720p than 1080p. Certainly not exact science but I attributed it to less manipulation at 720p. However, being as there were a lot of space scenes, I noticed that the blackness was a bit lighter than I would have liked and noticed that there is also a small amount of flashlighting in the upper right hand corner. I can live with that but I was a little bummed :-( Guess I'm being too critical. However, when I switched back to Jeopardy on OTA it just reminded me how much I really like this tv!

As soon as I get my Seabiscuit DVD back, I'll repeat the test with a newer, and probably better made DVD and check out my cal settings at the same time.
post #3518 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by djams View Post

More confirmation of the differences between sets. On my 47LD520, with csamos settings the white clip blinking bars are fine.

Curious - could you also see the red tint in the grayscale ramps?

I just double checked this with the IRE 100 red setting back up at 13. On the "grayscale ramp" pattern under Misc. Patterns/Additional, I can not detect a reddish veil anywhere. However, on the "grayscale steps" pattern, I most definitely can. The second brightest bar is clearly reddish. A light pink, really.
post #3519 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by gibdied View Post

Otto,

csamos was correct in his explanation of what I meant. I know your question and csamos' answer were several pages ago, but I just wanted to give confirmation.

Thanks for getting back. I sort of figured out the answer after I posted
post #3520 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by csamos View Post

I made comparisons of gamma, white balance and color charts for three different backlight settings. I calibrated my TV with a backlight setting of 25 and then did a full analysis with backlight settings of 0 and 50 as well.

Thanks for those tests. It's nice to see that altering the backlight doesn't affect other things too much. That pretty much validates my decision to run the backlight at 65 so the tv looks good in the day and just use energy saving to effectively reduce the backlight at night. It always looked good to my eyes, but seeing some data to back it up is reassuring.
post #3521 of 5070
Hi all,

Has anyone gotten playon v3 to work on a 42 -550? i get invalid file on everything. the trial expired so i cant get support and the log files seem to be encrypted. going nuts cuz i'm stubborn. Tversity works fine which is good.

ps- swapping out at 42 for a used 47LD650 which i hope is in good condition and an IPS panel- pretty excited....
post #3522 of 5070
ps- dropped all firewalls
post #3523 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by csamos View Post

I made comparisons of gamma, white balance and color charts for three different backlight settings. I calibrated my TV with a backlight setting of 25 and then did a full analysis with backlight settings of 0 and 50 as well.

Here is an animated image showing the gamma curves for all 3 backlight settings.

Here is an animated image showing the white balance curves for all 3 backlight settings.

Here is an animated image showing the CIE color charts for all 3 backlight settings.

For gamma, you'll notice that the backlight 25 curve is closest to a 2.22 average gamma, at 2.23. With the backlight at 0, the average gamma is slightly below at 2.20, and with backlight 50, the average gamma is a bit higher at 2.28. It makes sense that the gamma curves would change a bit according to the backlight setting, but they're all still pretty close. At most the backlight 50 setting might require bumping up the brightness maybe 1 or 2 notches to lower the gamma a little.

For a perfect 2.2 gamma at IRE 10, the measured Y value at IRE 10 should be 0.65% of the measured Y value at IRE 100.

With backlight 0, I measured a Y value of 0.240 at IRE 10 and 35.425 at IRE 100, which calculates to 0.677%.

With backlight 25, I measured a Y value of 0.650 at IRE 10 and 103.469 at IRE 100, which calculates to 0.628%.

With backlight 50, I measured a Y value of 1.018 at IRE 10 and 179.581 at IRE 100, which calculates to 0.567%.

The white balance and color charts remained fairly stable between the backlight settings though, which also makes sense. Interestingly, green moved the most between the 3 backlight settings.

For backlight 0, I measured 0.016 ftL at 0 IRE and 10.34 ftL at 100 IRE, for a contrast ratio of 646:1.

For backlight 25, I measured 0.040 ftL at 0 IRE and 30.20 ftL at 100 IRE, for a contrast ratio of 755:1.

For backlight 50, I measured 0.057 ftL at 0 IRE and 52.42 ftL at 100 IRE, for a contrast ratio of 920:1.

So the conclusion I draw from this is that changing the backlight setting will alter some of the image characteristics (particularly gamma and overall contrast ratio), but probably not enough to warrant separate calibrations for multiple backlight settings, unless of course you have your own calibration gear, extra free time and are obsessed with getting the best image you can.

hey carl.

thanks for taking the time to do these comparisons. did you use your original calibration settings and just changed the backlight levels? did you notice a brighter overall picture with the changes?
post #3524 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinzg35 View Post

hey carl.

thanks for taking the time to do these comparisons. did you use your original calibration settings and just changed the backlight levels? did you notice a brighter overall picture with the changes?

I calibrated the TV all over again and used the settings I posted a few days ago. Then I left those settings alone and only changed the backlight to 0 then 50, measuring everything at both backlight settings. I did not compare any content at the 3 different backlight levels. I can take some screenshots at the different backlight levels and post those comparisons. But the overall image will be brighter as you increase the backlight.

For me, I'm not trying to get as much light output from my set as possible. I am more concerned with the overall look of the picture, especially the quality of the near-black levels. For example, when a movie fades to black between scenes, the TV still produces a bluish glow from the backlight. Or if I'm watching something that is presented in 2.35:1 with letterbox bars at the top and bottom, those bars will not be black, but instead have that bluish glow to them. By comparison, in my theater (which uses an 8" CRT projector), fade to black makes the room go pitch black, with no visible light on the screen at all.

Aside from the black level (which I don't mean to keep harping on, but it is an issue for me), I really do love the image quality of my 47LD520. The gamma curve, white balance (grey scale) and color accuracy all exceed my CRT devices, and I love having a 1:1 pixel mapping for 1920x1080.
post #3525 of 5070
I have recently purchased an entirely new HT system, composed of he following:

LG 47LD520
Denon AVR-1610
Panasonic BDT210
DirecTV

I also purchased the Disney WOW Calibration BD. When using it, it suggested that my Contrast be set to 100 and Brightness to 52. Even with these settings, I cannot get the 'Ideal' white items to completely disappear. My backlight is set at 27 currently. The Contrast setting is obviously high, but it seems to be correct according to the calibration screens. I noticed that my BDP has a Black Level setting, which I set to 'Darker'.

Also, the calibration suggests that I set my Gamma to 'High' to get the 2.2 gamma bar to match the 'gray scale' background. This seems to counter what I have read which suggests you should leave the Gamma at the lowest setting.

Does this sound correct? Has anybody else used Disney WOW to calibrate their 47LD520?

Thanks!
post #3526 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by csamos View Post

Aside from the black level (which I don't mean to keep harping on, but it is an issue for me), I really do love the image quality of my 47LD520. The gamma curve, white balance (grey scale) and color accuracy all exceed my CRT devices, and I love having a 1:1 pixel mapping for 1920x1080.

Ok, I'm going to hang my head in shame and ask, but can you give me a definitive explanation of what the 1:1 pixel mapping is? I have an idea but 1:1, 4:2, pulldowns etc have me wondering if I'm understanding it correctly. As far as the black levels go, I see the same thing on my 47LD520 (see my post above about the BG test). I can live with it but it sure doesn't look like my old 32" Sony CRT HDTV that I came from.
post #3527 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by bstarfish View Post

I have recently purchased an entirely new HT system, composed of he following:

LG 47LD520
Denon AVR-1610
Panasonic BDT210
DirecTV

I also purchased the Disney WOW Calibration BD. When using it, it suggested that my Contrast be set to 100 and Brightness to 52. Even with these settings, I cannot get the 'Ideal' white items to completely disappear. My backlight is set at 27 currently. The Contrast setting is obviously high, but it seems to be correct according to the calibration screens. I noticed that my BDP has a Black Level setting, which I set to 'Darker'.

Also, the calibration suggests that I set my Gamma to 'High' to get the 2.2 gamma bar to match the 'gray scale' background. This seems to counter what I have read which suggests you should leave the Gamma at the lowest setting.

Does this sound correct? Has anybody else used Disney WOW to calibrate their 47LD520?

Thanks!

Welcome to the group. That makes 3 or 4 of us now (I think) that have the 47LD520! There have been some very useful calibrations posted that were done on a 42LD550 by Phase that work quite nicely on my 47LD520. We can get them posted for you if you'd like or you can use the Search feature. It would be a nice place to start and then check with your Wow disk.
post #3528 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

Ok, I'm going to hang my head in shame and ask, but can you give me a definitive explanation of what the 1:1 pixel mapping is? I have an idea but 1:1, 4:2, pulldowns etc have me wondering if I'm understanding it correctly. As far as the black levels go, I see the same thing on my 47LD520 (see my post above about the BG test). I can live with it but it sure doesn't look like my old 32" Sony CRT HDTV that I came from.

Under the Picture menu, take a look at the Aspect Ratio setting. It can be 16:9, Just Scan, etc.

The Just Scan mode is what I am referring to here. In this mode, the TV will maintain the exact input resolution without any zooming or stretching of the image. This is a 1-to-1 pixel mapping. An HD source at 1080p (1920 x 1080 pixels) connected to the TV will be shown in its full 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution.

By comparison, the "16:9" mode actually zooms the image in a bit, cutting off all 4 sides of a 1920 x 1080 pixel image.

To see the difference, pause an image (or better yet, pull up some kind of grid pattern like a tv guide, etc.) and then cycle through the different aspect ratio settings to see how it affects the image. Go back and forth between 16:9 and Just Scan in particular.
post #3529 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by csamos View Post

Under the Picture menu, take a look at the Aspect Ratio setting. It can be 16:9, Just Scan, etc.

Thanks Carl. That's what I thought, because I've noticed at times that when I used Just Scan, there were some wiggly lines at the top like the frame ran out of picture, but they went away with 16:9, so Just Scan showed everything that was there to be shown whereas 16:9 cropped a bit. Confirmation is such an ego boost Ok, now what's the pulldown ratios? I don't think I quite have a handle on what's happening there.
post #3530 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by bstarfish View Post

I have recently purchased an entirely new HT system, composed of he following:

LG 47LD520
Denon AVR-1610
Panasonic BDT210
DirecTV

I also purchased the Disney WOW Calibration BD. When using it, it suggested that my Contrast be set to 100 and Brightness to 52. Even with these settings, I cannot get the 'Ideal' white items to completely disappear. My backlight is set at 27 currently. The Contrast setting is obviously high, but it seems to be correct according to the calibration screens. I noticed that my BDP has a Black Level setting, which I set to 'Darker'.

Also, the calibration suggests that I set my Gamma to 'High' to get the 2.2 gamma bar to match the 'gray scale' background. This seems to counter what I have read which suggests you should leave the Gamma at the lowest setting.

Does this sound correct? Has anybody else used Disney WOW to calibrate their 47LD520?

Thanks!

I have the same issue with the WOW disc so I set it at 88 and 56, did not change the gamma.
post #3531 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

Welcome to the group. That makes 3 or 4 of us now (I think) that have the 47LD520! There have been some very useful calibrations posted that were done on a 42LD550 by Phase that work quite nicely on my 47LD520. We can get them posted for you if you'd like or you can use the Search feature. It would be a nice place to start and then check with your Wow disk.

Thanks! I have been lurking this thread since I was researching TVs to buy and have found it very helpful and informative. I have already tried both Phase's and Carl's settings. My issue with them is that they seem to make whites look kind of warm. I like the settings in general. I used the Standard mode for WOW calibration, while leaving the Expert modes with the above mentioned settings alone. The WOW settings certainly have a 'brighter' look to the whites, which is likely due to the 100 setting for the contrast.

It may be that I just need to get used to the expert settings for a while. I'll try to post some shots of the screen with both Phase and Carl's settting, as well as those from the WOW calibration and see if anyone sees anything out of the ordinary.

BTW Carl, if you get up to the Dallas area from Austin and want to have another LD520 to add to your calibration database, let me know!
post #3532 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by csamos View Post

I calibrated the TV all over again and used the settings I posted a few days ago. Then I left those settings alone and only changed the backlight to 0 then 50, measuring everything at both backlight settings. I did not compare any content at the 3 different backlight levels. I can take some screenshots at the different backlight levels and post those comparisons. But the overall image will be brighter as you increase the backlight.

For me, I'm not trying to get as much light output from my set as possible. I am more concerned with the overall look of the picture, especially the quality of the near-black levels. For example, when a movie fades to black between scenes, the TV still produces a bluish glow from the backlight. Or if I'm watching something that is presented in 2.35:1 with letterbox bars at the top and bottom, those bars will not be black, but instead have that bluish glow to them. By comparison, in my theater (which uses an 8" CRT projector), fade to black makes the room go pitch black, with no visible light on the screen at all.

Aside from the black level (which I don't mean to keep harping on, but it is an issue for me), I really do love the image quality of my 47LD520. The gamma curve, white balance (grey scale) and color accuracy all exceed my CRT devices, and I love having a 1:1 pixel mapping for 1920x1080.

is it all LCDs that produce that bluish hue? i know the black levels will not be 100% black but remember on the toshiba that i returned, there was no bluish hue so am wondering if this is a lg thing. like you said before, even with plasmas the black levels seem better but you can still tell when you compare the picture to say the 'black bars'.
post #3533 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

Thanks Carl. That's what I thought, because I've noticed at times that when I used Just Scan, there were some wiggly lines at the top like the frame ran out of picture, but they went away with 16:9, so Just Scan showed everything that was there to be shown whereas 16:9 cropped a bit. Confirmation is such an ego boost Ok, now what's the pulldown ratios? I don't think I quite have a handle on what's happening there.

Yep, those wiggly lines you see are actually data being transmitted at the top of the frame. I think I mostly see it on SD channels, like sometimes when I'm watching headline news. For the most part I never see that, so I leave it at Just Scan all the time to get the full unzoomed frame.

Here's a good article for information on what pulldown means:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine
post #3534 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by bstarfish View Post

I have already tried both Phase's and Carl's settings. My issue with them is that they seem to make whites look kind of warm.

Maybe my panel has a white balance oddity. To my eye (and my colorimeter), my set produces perfect greys and white, but you can see from my white balance settings, I had to increase red quite a bit at all IREs, especially 50 and higher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstarfish View Post

BTW Carl, if you get up to the Dallas area from Austin and want to have another LD520 to add to your calibration database, let me know!

This makes 2 people up around Dallas now. Looks like I may have to do a weekend road trip to Dallas soon!
post #3535 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinzg35 View Post

is it all LCDs that produce that bluish hue? i know the black levels will not be 100% black but remember on the toshiba that i returned, there was no bluish hue so am wondering if this is a lg thing. like you said before, even with plasmas the black levels seem better but you can still tell when you compare the picture to say the 'black bars'.

Any TV technology that uses some sort of light engine will always have some light bleed through the panel, unless tricks are employed like turning the backlight off if the signal drops below a certain level (either the entire screen or local sections). The LG sets we have suffer this problem more than others, like the Samsung I had been looking at. Without seeing (or better yet, measuring with a colorimeter) the Toshiba you had, it's hard to say what its backlight produced at 0 IRE, but it sounds like it wasn't as aggressive as our LGs. The darker the black level, the harder it is to discern any coloration to the black.
post #3536 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by csamos View Post

Any TV technology that uses some sort of light engine will always have some light bleed through the panel, unless tricks are employed like turning the backlight off if the signal drops below a certain level (either the entire screen or local sections). The LG sets we have suffer this problem more than others, like the Samsung I had been looking at. Without seeing (or better yet, measuring with a colorimeter) the Toshiba you had, it's hard to say what its backlight produced at 0 IRE, but it sounds like it wasn't as aggressive as our LGs. The darker the black level, the harder it is to discern any coloration to the black.

yeah, i do remember the black levels being more black then the bluish color we get with the LGs. it's something that i can live with and it sounds like your calibrations are the closest these sets will get to 'black'. do plasmas have the same problem? people are always saying plasmas are the best in terms of black and lcds are in terms of white balance.
post #3537 of 5070
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinzg35 View Post

yeah, i do remember the black levels being more black then the bluish color we get with the LGs. it's something that i can live with and it sounds like your calibrations are the closest these sets will get to 'black'. do plasmas have the same problem? people are always saying plasmas are the best in terms of black and lcds are in terms of white balance.

Plasma panels are better with black level because they emit light and when a screen is black the light emission is essentially "off" . Whereas LCD panels with CCFL have a light source behind the LCD matrix which acts like light valves and "let's varying amounts of light through. Unfortunately, some light will leak through when the screen goes to all black. So you get a grayish or bluish dark shade rather than pure black. However, by using the lowest back light level you can, black levels can be optimized and perceived black level can be improved by using a "bias light" behind the TV set.

There is a bit more to it than this when LED, local dimming, and a few other things enter into it. But this is why in a nut shell.
post #3538 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by csamos View Post

Yep, those wiggly lines you see are actually data being transmitted at the top of the frame. I think I mostly see it on SD channels, like sometimes when I'm watching headline news. For the most part I never see that, so I leave it at Just Scan all the time to get the full unzoomed frame.

Here's a good article for information on what pulldown means:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine

Thanks for the article. I had to read it twice though. I still say chemistry is much easier to understand At least it's a linear logical science.

So, with all that information at hand, is there anything one can do with our sets and DVD players to optimize the viewing experience, or is it all done automatically for us depending on the source material and it's just enough to understand the mechanics so when we observe something that we don't quite like, there's an explanation for it. Are there any features (settings) in the new crop of Blu-ray players to look for that address these issues? I never thought that buying a new tv would take me so far beyond just watching tv and movies I love learning new stuff!
post #3539 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Plasma panels are better with black level because they emit light and when a screen is black the light emission is essentially "off" . Whereas LCD panels with CCFL have a light source behind the LCD matrix which acts like light valves and "let's varying amounts of light through. Unfortunately, some light will leak through when the screen goes to all black. So you get a grayish or bluish dark shade rather than pure black. However, by using the lowest back light level you can, black levels can be optimized and perceived black level can be improved by using a "bias light" behind the TV set.

There is a bit more to it than this when LED, local dimming, and a few other things enter into it. But this is why in a nut shell.

Thanks for the info.

I'm assuming that LCD manufacturers are trying to get close to plasma technology with the local dimming, edge lit, etc. I'm still trying to get used to this LCD coming from a plasma but I'm getting there=)
post #3540 of 5070
Otto, get a cheap Blu-ray player already

You won't have to worry about any of this.

BTW, I bought a PS3 to replace my BD570!
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