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Official LG xxLD550 xxLD520 xxLD650 Owners Thread - Page 155

post #4621 of 5070
Hello All!

Thought I would contribute with my calibration here. Done with a newly purchased X Rite Display2 meter. I fought and fought with the CMS system on my 42LD520 and eventually came to the conclusion that it does more harm than good. Apparently, with the CMS on these LG's, color adjusts not only luminance but also saturation (or something to that effect, multiple parameters are affected). It seems to be a common consensus amongst many calibrators to leave the CMS alone, as the color gamut is pretty accurate right out of the box. For Example: http://www.tweaktv.com/forum/find-a-...iew.html#10817

Quote:
In the case of the LG the CMS system is so flawed that it can't be used so a professional calibration would be limited to the grayscale and the rest of the user parameters.
I chose to focus on greyscale and gamma. The results on my set are spectacular. Perfect balance and depth like I hadn't seen prior. I spent ALOT of time using the 10pt greyscale to achieve a near flat line gamma - it's pretty close to perfect although I may spend more time on it. It seems like whenever I go to make a few changes I look at the clock and realize I've been tweaking for hours! The wife isn't fond of this new hobby of mine .

Here's two links to screenshots of my resulting greyscale and gamma. The gamma graph with the dotted line is the sets gamma with all IRE and CMS values at zero, solid line is after calibration. I obviously got it much improved:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...n/8-9Gamma.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...Screenshot.jpg

Attached are my settings (I used DJAM's text file and put my own values in). I optimized these settings for a dark room w/small bias light behind the TV.

 

Ryans 42LD520 Dark Room w small bias light calibration NO CMS Values.txt 1.0615234375k . file
post #4622 of 5070
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhong55 View Post

Like to thank Phase700B for the ISF expert settings, now my TV looks better than if it was just in Cinema Mode.

Only one suggestion, I would leave Real Cinema On for Blu Ray movies and such, and turn off trumotion (I don't like the Soap Opera effect) for a true 5:5 pulldown when watching Blu Rays encoded in 24fps.

Exactly. I haven't provided any setting for Judder or Blur using TruMotion for just that reason. I leave it up to the viewer to determine if they wish to use it. Aren't the picture options great for these mid priced TVs?

Just for the record, what model did you buy and which Expert setting did you try? You can also try using AVS HD709 in Expert 2 and see if you get better results. This info can be found in Post #2 of this thread.
post #4623 of 5070
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanHomsey View Post

Hello All!

Thought I would contribute with my calibration here. Done with a newly purchased X Rite Display2 meter. I fought and fought with the CMS system on my 42LD520 and eventually came to the conclusion that it does more harm than good. Apparently, with the CMS on these LG's, color adjusts not only luminance but also saturation (or something to that effect, multiple parameters are affected). It seems to be a common consensus amongst many calibrators to leave the CMS alone, as the color gamut is pretty accurate right out of the box. . . . .


I chose to focus on greyscale and gamma. The results on my set are spectacular. Perfect balance and depth like I hadn't seen prior. I spent ALOT of time using the 10pt greyscale to achieve a near flat line gamma - it's pretty close to perfect although I may spend more time on it. It seems like whenever I go to make a few changes I look at the clock and realize I've been tweaking for hours! The wife isn't fond of this new hobby of mine .
obucket.com/albums/v165/Nefarion/8-9GreyscaleScreenshot.jpg[/u
Here's two links to screenshots of my resulting greyscale and gamma:


Attached are my settings (I used DJAM's text file and put my own values in). I optimized these settings for a dark room w/small bias light behind the TV.


Thanks for the new data on your 42LD520. This is very interesting. Could you tell us what the build date is of your TV? Also, there is a way to find out your LCD panel type by using the following entry procedure to bring up the "Host Status" screen:

Press Menu, then Enter

Press left arrow and scroll down to Option, but do not enter it.

Press 1,1,1,1,1.

This will display a page of all sorts of info with the LCD panel type, model number, etc in the upper left corner. The reason I ask is that your setting are so very different than what I obtained for my June 2010 build 42LD550, or anyone else. In the Host Status screen it shows my TV to be a "Global_Plat2". Some of us think LG must have used a couple of different panel types as well as main boards. My settings , also using an i1Display 2 are significantly different and I had to use CMS especially for reds and green to tone it down (using the Warm color gray scale setting and 2.2 gamma.) At the same time, at least one owner of had an IRE 100 setting of something like +13, 0, 2. If I used that setting, my white level would be extremely pink.

Don't be alarmed though, as this isn't surprising. We have seen the same differences even in the same model such as the 47LD520. It's just interesting. Also, if you can, just to verify your panel type. Can you try looking through al the vent grills in the back of the TV ans see if you can find a label on the back of the LCD panel? The letters and numbers would indicate if it is indeed and LG made panel or some other brand. Sharp and one or two others have been reportedly used in the 2010 model year.
post #4624 of 5070
Hey Phase!

Build date is September 2010.

Under "Host Information" I have: "Model Name : 42LD520-UA (Liquid Crystal Display), which is different from your GLOBAL-PLAT2.

I couldnt find anything inside the vent grills but I may have missed it - the way my TV is mounted it's very difficult to see back there.
post #4625 of 5070
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanHomsey View Post

Hey Phase!

Build date is September 2010.

Under "Host Information" I have: "Model Name : 42LD520-UA (Liquid Crystal Display), which is different from your GLOBAL-PLAT2.

I couldnt find anything inside the vent grills but I may have missed it - the way my TV is mounted it's very difficult to see back there.

Thanks Ryan. I'm guessing we either have different panels, main boards, or both. I'm not sure I agree that CMS should be "untouchable" across the board on these TVs though. It would be nice if the "testers" were able to try a variety of make dates and panel sizes. Also, the "LH" series the article referenced is not the same as the LD or even the new LK series. Also the LED series, for example, also exhibits much difference in gray scale characteristics. And Djams, as I remember it, had trouble with CMS but was able to eventually tweak it in. Another owner also used CMS but had green issues. All this leads me to believe that there are too many differences between TVs to make an across the board judgement. And I am not very pleased with the consistency of consumer grade colorimeters like the Spyder or i1 Display 2. Although the new i1 looks promising. I , like yourself and many others, enjoy the process of tweaking for the best picture quality. (My wife is right there with yours. I've stayed up late at night through the last 10 years or so, tweaking at least 5 TVs we've owned). If you haven't tried using the AVS HD 709 disc and done a manual calibration just using the methods provided in the video and written pdf manual, give it a try. My opinion at this point is that for most people buying a new LCD HDTV, just using the AVS HD709 will get them 90% to a perfect picture.. . if they know what they are doing and what to look for. Luminance values would probably be off, but from what I've seen using the consumer colrimeters, gray scale tracking can be dialed in pretty close especially on these LG models.
post #4626 of 5070
Hey Phase,

For me, it seems like whatever I touched in the CMS caused more problems than it solved. I also tried the 75% Saturation method (outlined here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post18868120) which yielded blatantly off results (reds were much too bright, skin tones off..etc). I use the AVS disc for my patterns - havent tried using the filter method that you've described in the past. I'll give it a whirl and see what I think in the near future.

I can certainly attest to the fact that these sets are superb with greyscale/gamma! I was playing with a family members high end sony LED (3k TV) that only had two greyscale points and no CMS system whatsoever. Surprising considering the price point of our LG's!
post #4627 of 5070
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanHomsey View Post

Hey Phase,

For me, it seems like whatever I touched in the CMS caused more problems than it solved. I also tried the 75% Saturation method (outlined here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post18868120) which yielded blatantly off results (reds were much too bright, skin tones off..etc). I use the AVS disc for my patterns - havent tried using the filter method that you've described in the past. I'll give it a whirl and see what I think in the near future.

I can certainly attest to the fact that these sets are superb with greyscale/gamma! I was playing with a family members high end sony LED (3k TV) that only had two greyscale points and no CMS system whatsoever. Surprising considering the price point of our LG's!

Yes, that is the post I mentioned some time ago. KND made a post (#5) way back at the beginning of this thread for his 60" LD model and then another which resulted in his CMS results. 75% got me much closer to CMS working also; so again, I'm thinking whatever LG does with panel/main board types CMS either works or doesn't.

I agree with you about the Sony. My sister and bro-in-law have a Sony 46EX700 and while it had a fair amount of picture setting choices, nothing like the LG has, unless there are some hidden service menus somewhere. Also, I noticed some uneven back light and leakage , although minor. When I bought my LG last year, I couldn't find a TV within $300 to $500 that match the picture quality and features.
post #4628 of 5070
Phase: Sorry about being a bit tardy with my report on my new LG-37LV3500, with the LED-IPS panel. But, despite it's not having all the buttons, nobs & menu items you and other tweakers relish, I am really pleased with the set.

HD OTA renderings, in general, are superb. ('Course it suffers from the usual knotty problems of constant, inconsistent PQ, varying incessantly, dependent on the input signal. Differing channels, differing sources (live talking heads, commercials, inserted non-hd stuff etc.), differing angles from live coverage producing wholly differing light sources (shadows etc.), differing cameras etc. etc.

However, Sharpness is keen, as is Color. As you may recall, I prefer low-ish saturation levels, looking for skin tones beyond faces, which rather tend towards either heavy make up or sunburn. My tweaking evaluations center around hands, neck, decolletages of people in studio entertainment mode. Or else, unmade-up faces of talking heads or faces of just folks in their natural environment, whether in-or out-doors. When properly adjusted to what we are most familiar with, in my case mostly anglo-saxon hues that trend towards white, with perhaps a little dusting of rose & yellow, these, when well calibrated, produce decent color for everybody(thing) else. After quite a bit of fiddling I pretty much concluded that this unit's color balance is pretty good out of the box, except for "Skin Color", which was reduced to -3. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, it is recommended that one does this either with an exceptionally strong, and clean, OTA signal or, of course, a well made disc with people's faces that remain on screen for sufficient time to try different settings.

On the other hand, "Color" saturation had to be dialled way back from 60 to 26-32. Yes - even with the setup changed from "showroom" to "home" settings.

For daytime viewing I use "Automatic", but nighttime I have to use other settings (minimum, medium), automatic just doesn't seem to work with low (or no) surround room lighting - PQ is quite a bit too dark. (I found this to be also true with my LD550. Why is that?!!!!!

Contrast is set to 100 - a bit high, perhaps - but, no matter what lower levels I tried, the matter of shadow detail is barely improved when going lower; it deteriorates snap & becomes milky. So, while shadow details are only fair to middling, blackness is quite good.

Screen uniformity is not perfect - it seems to fall off just a tad to the right half of the screen - but it's barely noticeable when staring at a totally white screen and I've not found it to be a deal breaker. Nor have I seen any of the dreaded LED light leaks on black screens.

So, all in all, I've lucked out with this LED-IPS panel and I am another satisfied LG customer. But I do wish they would stop playing the IPS rouette. It's a really black mark against the company and makes for consumer frustration & disappointment. That said, please accept my thanks (again), Phase, for I.D.-ing this matter to all of us so many moons ago, and which, in the end, allowed me to seach for and buy my new toy. Thomas.

P.s. Talking to a tech support gent at L.G. the other day I was told - off the record - that LG is planning to put IPS panels in all their panels. Whether that this referred to the LV series only or all other also I did not ascertain. FWIW. T.
post #4629 of 5070
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomstan View Post

Phase: Sorry about being a bit tardy with my report on my new LG-37LV3500, with the LED-IPS panel. All in all, despite it's not having all the buttons and nobs you and other tweakers relish, I am really pleased with the set.

HD OTA renderings, in general, are superb.
For daytime viewing I use "Automatic", but nighttime I have to use other settings (minimum, medium) as automatic just doesn't seem to work with minimal low lighting - it goes quite a bit too dark. (I found this also to be true with my LD550. Why is that?!!!!!



So all in all, I 've lucked out with this LED-IPS panel and I am another satisfied LG customer. But I do wish they would stop playing the IPS rouette. it's a rally black mark against the company.


Very good capsule review! I am encouraged to hear that you found an LED LCD TV that meets the discriminating specs knowing your background and talents. Any prospective owners should take special note of what you have to say about flesh tones (and where).

I have found that the Automatic setting for back light (Energy Saving) also does not work well at night in a softly lit room let alone a darkened one. I suspect the photo sensor and circuitry does not quite adjust properly for all lighting conditions. I usually use Minimum with back light at 41 or so.

Also, the Video Essentials DVD or AVIA may help to get the last ounce of picture quality by optimizing picture settings. You could fiddle with these discs using the Expert 2 setting and not affect your current settings.
post #4630 of 5070
Thanks, Phase, for your INSTANT response! Your similar experience with "Automatic" at night is enlightening. I have tried, with both sets, to mimic changing light conditions by moving a hand around the bottom bezel - where the sensor is ostensibly located. There has never been ANY affect to the picture brightness. So I am altogether confounded by this setting. Have you tried similar manoeuvers? T.
post #4631 of 5070
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomstan View Post

Thanks, Phase, for your INSTANT response! Your similar experience with "Automatic" at night is enlightening. I have tried, with both sets, to mimic changing light conditions by moving a hand around the bottom bezel - where the sensor is ostensibly located. There has never been ANY affect to the picture brightness. So I am altogether confounded by this setting. Have you tried similar manoeuvers? T.

A number of us have tried to locate the elusive sensor for the Energy Saving function to no avail. The only sensor position on the bezel on my TV and is a slightly oval one near the bottom right. It is both the sensor for the infrared remote as well as the Energy Saving function. However, it needs to be covered thoroughly for about 7 to 10 seconds for it to make any changes to picture brightness. so you won't notice any change for that amount of time once you locate and cover it.
post #4632 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post
A number of us have tried to locate the elusive sensor for the Energy Saving function to no avail. The only sensor position on the bezel on my TV and is a slightly oval one near the bottom right. It is both the sensor for the infrared remote as well as the Energy Saving function. However, it needs to be covered thoroughly for about 7 to 10 seconds for it to make any changes to picture brightness. so you won't notice any change for that amount of time once you locate and cover it.
Phase: again, my thanks for your swift reponse. All is well. T.
post #4633 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Go into one of the Expert picture modes, find the part where the IRE settings begin and set Pattern to Inner. Then you can step down from 100IRE to 60,50,40, etc and see how it looks.

@Phase, sorry to quote a way old post, but I found this to be valuable information as I have a slight vertical banding issue. When I switch the pattern to Inner and then leave the IRE on a lower value does that actually change the screen's projection quality? I thought those settings were just to help calibrate. I would appreciate if you could briefly elaborate as I've tweaked some settings like gamma to reduce the effects, but still haven't found a solid solution. I have an appointment with an LG technician, but I'd prefer not to go through with it. Thanks! And for the record, DJAMS settings are far and away the best for the LD520.
post #4634 of 5070
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJGaucho View Post

@Phase, sorry to quote a way old post, but I found this to be valuable information as I have a slight vertical banding issue. When I switch the pattern to Inner and then leave the IRE on a lower value does that actually change the screen's projection quality? I thought those settings were just to help calibrate. I would appreciate if you could briefly elaborate as I've tweaked some settings like gamma to reduce the effects, but still haven't found a solid solution. I have an appointment with an LG technician, but I'd prefer not to go through with it. Thanks! And for the record, DJAMS settings are far and away the best for the LD520.

The info I gave in the referenced post will not change anything unless you change the RGB IRE values. I just gave the info to a poster for him to check the extent of his banding issue by viewing different full screen IRE windows. Usually any banding will be seen and other screen uniformity issues by doing this.

And, yes, the settings Djams has will be closest for most xxLD520s. However, some owners with different LCD panels (IPS, VA, etc) require individual calibration settings. It's pretty much hit or miss, but the settings in this thread have been a good starting point for many owners!

What would be best is to try using the AVS HD709 disc as explained in Post # 2 of this thread. You could try your own settings in Expert2 and still have the ones you are using now in tact. Then you could compare or even fine tune each.
post #4635 of 5070
Phase, and others, possibly interested in fine tuning their P.Q., I've tweaked my post #4628 of a couple of days ago. With all due respect to all tweakers, I strongly recommend to anyone wishing to work without calibration discs, or other instruments, to just futz around, as I've described, and find the best skin tone rendering as they perceive them. In most casses, this gets one pretty close to what is right for each individual. And that is what it's really all about - in the end, I've found, it's not always what the instruments lead one to believe. Thomas
post #4636 of 5070
My TV has just told me that 08.03.06 update just came out, I was wondering if anyone has a changelog or anything for it??
post #4637 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhong55 View Post

My TV has just told me that 08.03.06 update just came out, I was wondering if anyone has a changelog or anything for it??

Damn! The old thread has been revised Whoo Hoo! Ok, I forget but which LD do you have?
post #4638 of 5070
I got the update , which logged me off to the tv, and i didnt realize i had installed it and could not figure out why i got no osd from my onkyo 608. it didnt take long to realize the hdmi input was not engaged.
I looked here last night us eastern daylight time, but no one had posted yet. I have no idea just what was done with this update. i checked out the netcast and the widget thing, neither of which i use very often. I did not notice any differences there either. I did not go into deep testing. looked for widget changes, though i only use the weather. I only use the netflix , and since i got the lg 570bd player, i do not bother with the tv app since it does not have arc and the sound is not as good, or the options are not as good despite employing all the tips i got on these forums.
the plain tv function did look just fine though. only, i am not able to say whether it is any different or better. it just seems better...i was watching digital cable tv through the box.
post #4639 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnniedoo View Post

I got the update , which logged me off to the tv, and i didnt realize i had installed it and could not figure out why i got no osd from my onkyo 608. it didnt take long to realize the hdmi input was not engaged.
I looked here last night us eastern daylight time, but no one had posted yet. I have no idea just what was done with this update. i checked out the netcast and the widget thing, neither of which i use very often. I did not notice any differences there either. I did not go into deep testing. looked for widget changes, though i only use the weather. I only use the netflix , and since i got the lg 570bd player, i do not bother with the tv app since it does not have arc and the sound is not as good, or the options are not as good despite employing all the tips i got on these forums.
the plain tv function did look just fine though. only, i am not able to say whether it is any different or better. it just seems better...i was watching digital cable tv through the box.

So why did you update then without finding out what the update did first? If it was for a problem that you didn't have then it was unecessary.
post #4640 of 5070
Thread Starter 
I gave up on the LG TV updates since they were generally for some NetCast refinements or features. Since using my BD player or HTPC is far more versatile and produces better video quality, I leave the TV alone, rather then risk changes we know nothing about. If LG was forthright with what the changes ARE for each update, maybe I would risk it. I just update my Blu-ray players and keep them up to snuff!
post #4641 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

So why did you update then without finding out what the update did first? If it was for a problem that you didn't have then it was unecessary.

To be fair to the common user of consumer electronics, when he TV finds an update, it gives you an ominous message saying something along the lines of your TV working in a degraded or limited manner because you have not updated the software.

They are effectively telling you that you have a problem even if you didn't know you had one (or even if you don't actually have one).
post #4642 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidiot1985 View Post

To be fair to the common user of consumer electronics, when he TV finds an update, it gives you an ominous message saying something along the lines of your TV working in a degraded or limited manner because you have not updated the software.

They are effectively telling you that you have a problem even if you didn't know you had one (or even if you don't actually have one).

Interesting. That's another reason not to get an integrated set. However, you should have an option to continue or not. I would not have upgraded at that point and instead contacted LG to see what it was all about, especially if you're not having any issues. It's like all that Windows crap that is pushed whether you need it or not. You have to decide whether it will do you some good or not and then choose to, or not to, upgrade. Contact LG and see if you can "downgrade" if you are having issues.
post #4643 of 5070
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidiot1985 View Post

To be fair to the common user of consumer electronics, when he TV finds an update, it gives you an ominous message saying something along the lines of your TV working in a degraded or limited manner because you have not updated the software.

They are effectively telling you that you have a problem even if you didn't know you had one (or even if you don't actually have one).

Hmmm. . . . I've gotten no such message on my LG 42LD550. Did this message come up at power up or all by itself when you entered NetCast apps? Or are you just speaking metaphorically regarding a potential warning? What model do you have? My TV works fine with no warning.

I only get a "notice" on my LG BD550 network Blu-ray player, but it isn;t ominous and appears only momentary upon power up then it disappears after about 10 seconds IF there is an update. It also gives the user a choice to "hide" any further messages if you choose to not update. It doesn't "nervous" you into thinking the update MUST be made.

As far as "having a problem you may not know you had". . . . there have been updates that eliminated or undesirably altered functions such as DLNA , USB file play, etc. So owners have chosen NOT to update at times just because the update itself "degrades" performance. This has been the bane of automatic updating for most brands of modern consumer electronics. I have a Toshiba HD-XA2 and keep it at firmware rev 2.7, even though update 4.0 has been available for over 2 years. Many of us do not want the issues higher updates have induced. You can read about this in that players thread. So firmware updates are not always beneficial, necessary, or an indication of impaired performance.

For these 2010 LD model TVs, no updates have been verified to have anything to do other than change or add some NetCast features. So, if VuDu, NetFlix, etc are apps you use, then perhaps updating is a good choice. . . maybe. If your network apps are on another device such as a BD player, I would leave well enough alone. I've owned my 42LD550 for almost 14 months now with no ill effects and a superb picture!
post #4644 of 5070
Hey, i've bought a LG 47LD655. This is, I think, southamerican LD650 with TDT. Any one know a good calibration settings? or how to update it?
post #4645 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phase700B View Post

Hmmm. . . . I've gotten no such message on my LG 42LD550. Did this message come up at power up or all by itself when you entered NetCast apps? Or are you just speaking metaphorically regarding a potential warning? What model do you have? My TV works fine with no warning.
...

I believe the message (actually a dialog box offering choices to upgrade or cancel) comes up when entering the NetCast menu on my 42LD550.
post #4646 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidiot1985 View Post


I believe the message (actually a dialog box offering choices to upgrade or cancel) comes up when entering the NetCast menu on my 42LD550.

Mine came up a few days ago when I powered on the set. But your mileage may very.
post #4647 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by cstrait001 View Post

Mine came up a few days ago when I powered on the set. But your mileage may very.

Just curious but did you do anything or just ignore the update message? Did it say what the update was for or just say an update was available?
post #4648 of 5070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot

Just curious but did you do anything or just ignore the update message? Did it say what the update was for or just say an update was available?
I updated. The only message was something like there is a new update available and it gave the firmware version. I think this update makes the third since I've had the set, but there was never a message or description about the update.
post #4649 of 5070
Got the same update - said update or cancel after entering netcast - first time I've seen the prompt presented the way it was this time. I updated too, no problems with it - took a few to 5 minutes maybe. It logged off to the TV for a while which might make a person think it was done, but it wasn't - it then rebooted and finished the update. Don't shut it off when it does this, might cause a problem with the update.
post #4650 of 5070
Thanks for the info. I've had my 47LD520 for almost a year now and have never seen an update posted on the LG site so it seems that maybe the updates are for Netcast apps or functions only as has been stated before and not for tv functionality.
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