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lets bring back sub testing - Page 3

post #61 of 479
"Anyway I did work up an effective 12.5hz Butterworth 24db octave hpf with about 4 filters in the end. "

are there consequences that are not so obvious in applying so many filters in order to hit a target frequency response?
post #62 of 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

So what subs were tested again?


Basically just my subs I own. Only one non Diy commercial sub and it is going on 12 years old.

1. Velodyne CT150
2. CSS SDX15's dual sealed
3. LMS 5400 sealed
4. RE Audio XXX 18d2 sealed
5. RE Audio XXX 18d2 ported
6. B&C 21sw152's dual opposed sealed
7. B&C 21sw152 ported
8. Danley Sound Labs DTS10 kit
9. Danley Sound Labs DTS10 kit with alternate drivers.
post #63 of 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Anyway I did work up an effective 12.5hz Butterworth 24db octave hpf with about 4 filters in the end. "

are there consequences that are not so obvious in applying so many filters in order to hit a target frequency response?


Shouldn't be any worse than the effects of adding the equivalent "real" hpf. Provided the final electrical signal shape is the same.
post #64 of 479
Quote:


9. Danley Sound Labs DTS10 kit with alternate drivers.

Ricci, what alternate drivers??
post #65 of 479
Forget the what. The real question is how did they perform, was the extra output there, and how did they sound comparatively?
post #66 of 479
Of course!

but more importantly can we buy them and build a DIY DTS-10
post #67 of 479
EDIT: It is possible, but I would not want to see another SPUD situation.

It would be better to get confirmation that the drivers work comparatively to the sim, and then do a new DIY horn from the ground up with the new drivers.

There are a handful of drivers that should work similarly, and a few that could be a little better. Confirmation that the sims can be backed up with the new choices is needed before many will join the band wagon. The thing is the HR graphs are ugly for these things, even the real thing. Most people would see them, and go "no way."
post #68 of 479
I'm with soho54 here.

There are other drivers that can do what Danley's DTS-10 drivers do, I am sure that there are even drivers that will do better. I'd love to hear a DTS-10 in person, I've not had a chance yet.

As far as a DIY project that results in performance similar to the DTS-10? That's for another thread, and that's a thread I'm sure a lot of the folks here would participate in if the tone and goals were right. My primary concern is that there is a fine line here - while imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, trying to come up with an outright clone borders on theft of intellectual property.

I'm waiting until I have another project or two built and measured before I light the fuse on something like this - I don't want to build a bunch of hype and wind up with results that don't meet my expectations.
post #69 of 479
Yes, but cloning it for oneself should not be a problem. If trying to go into business with this design then that is bad. Hell, anyone with a sub can take it apart and copy it with different drivers, no?
post #70 of 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Yes, but cloning it for oneself should not be a problem. If trying to go into business with this design then that is bad. Hell, anyone with a sub can take it apart and copy it with different drivers, no?

True. I agree with you on all accounts.

I am not so concerned with the folks that post regularly and participate on the forums. As anyone on the Internet can read what is posted here, anyone could take what has been posted and develop a product from it.

I'm certainly not trying to say that I can design stuff as well as Danley, and I know from my experiences that the simulations are the easiest part. I just don't want my actions to harm Tom's products or market.
post #71 of 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

True. I agree with you on all accounts.

I am not so concerned with the folks that post regularly and participate on the forums. As anyone on the Internet can read what is posted here, anyone could take what has been posted and develop a product from it.

I'm certainly not trying to say that I can design stuff as well as Danley, and I know from my experiences that the simulations are the easiest part. I just don't want my actions to harm Tom's products or market.

I agree with you.
post #72 of 479
Cloning a DTS-10 for yourself is fine, but that means Doing It all Yourself in this case for me. There is already enough info online (and pics) to allow anyone to do it already. I don't want to see any plans, or build sheets online for a straight up clone though.

If someone wants to do something tuned to hit the same low corner with their own horn and drivers as a community project that would be fine to me. It would need to be something original though. None of the parameters copied over from the DTS-10 enclosure.
post #73 of 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Ricci, what alternate drivers??



Now what would be the fun of giving that away or any of the rest of it now?






Isn't the real question how the as delivered dts10 itself did?
post #74 of 479
"1. Velodyne CT150
2. CSS SDX15's dual sealed
3. LMS 5400 sealed
4. RE Audio XXX 18d2 sealed
5. RE Audio XXX 18d2 ported
6. B&C 21sw152's dual opposed sealed
7. B&C 21sw152 ported
8. Danley Sound Labs DTS10 kit
9. Danley Sound Labs DTS10 kit with alternate drivers."

that is a heck of a line up.
post #75 of 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

I'm with soho54 here.

There are other drivers that can do what Danley's DTS-10 drivers do, I am sure that there are even drivers that will do better. I'd love to hear a DTS-10 in person, I've not had a chance yet.

As far as a DIY project that results in performance similar to the DTS-10? That's for another thread, and that's a thread I'm sure a lot of the folks here would participate in if the tone and goals were right. My primary concern is that there is a fine line here - while imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, trying to come up with an outright clone borders on theft of intellectual property.

I'm waiting until I have another project or two built and measured before I light the fuse on something like this - I don't want to build a bunch of hype and wind up with results that don't meet my expectations.


Quote:


trying to come up with an outright clone borders on theft of intellectual property.

Only if someone is Marketing and selling it. DIY is pretty well a cloning world a large majority of time, people use someone else's IP daily in the DIY world.

Look at all the waveguide solutions, adding foam, etc.....you really thinking that isn't the IP of Geddes? You think no one has ripped a part a speaker or sub and asked, hmmm...how did they do that. Only to go on and build their own, posting all the data...who's IP is that originally? We can say the same about electronics.

Reverse engineering exists period. Its free will to choose if you want to do it or not. Nothing more, nothing less.

No one here is out to make money off Danley so lets just not have a debate that is more or less a lot about nothing.

There will be a DTS-10 clone in the DIY world. I will put $$$ on that one
post #76 of 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Now what would be the fun of giving that away or any of the rest of it now?






Isn't the real question how the as delivered dts10 itself did?

No doubt
post #77 of 479
"trying to come up with an outright clone borders on theft of intellectual property."

why?

there are many drivers and many horn enclosures, just like any other design. there are thousands and thousands of possibilities. how does any particular one rise to the level of theft of i.p.?
post #78 of 479
Hey, maybe the other companies shouldn't have made something so awesome and so expensive at the same time. Heheh. Yeah. Damn right! DIY THE PLANET!!! Okay, that was a bad 'Hackers' reference. Sorry. I am disappoint.
post #79 of 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Isn't the real question how the as delivered dts10 itself did?

Was it really that bad?

post #80 of 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Hey, maybe the other companies shouldn't have made something so awesome and so expensive at the same time. Heheh. Yeah. Damn right! DIY THE PLANET!!! Okay, that was a bad 'Hackers' reference. Sorry. I am disappoint.

lol, great reference. Loved that movie!! It introduced us to Angelina
post #81 of 479
I agree on many points. However, I see a different spin on the DTS issue. Danley has reached a hand out specifically to the DIY crowd. They made a gesture of appreciation towards us and offered an awesome product as a very inexpensive option for a limited time. To not be sensative to this is different to me than copying a product from a company that has not done these things. To me, Danley has already presented themselves as 'giving' to our community. Whether you can or not isn't the question. The question is, does it feel like you should?

Back on topic, can't we get a few unofficial comments!!!!!
post #82 of 479
Hey Ricci when can we expect to see some results?
Give us something, even a few comments will do.
post #83 of 479
hang tight guys...he must be busy with business. he knows that there are lots of folks chomping at the bit to see how things went. when the time is right, he'll post and i'm sure it will be lots of goodness.
post #84 of 479
All the data is pretty much put together. We are supposed to have a talk and figure out the details tonight. I'm not strong on web management or site building. It's way too much data and effort to just slap it up in some random posts that will get lost and cluttered up with off topic banter.
post #85 of 479
Has it been two weeks yet?

This has been the crappiest week.
post #86 of 479
Yeah. Things have been tense around here.

I don't really have anything else yet. A website is being worked on. Im hoping it will be ready to go by thanksgiving weekend. We are trying to think more long term with this and a lot of work had to be done and created from scratch. That should all be in place for next time and things should be much quicker.
post #87 of 479
lol...such always takes twice as long as anticipated. i've been down this road lots of times. advice...keep it as super simple as possible. one option would be to create a thread with an index like the "measuring amplifiers" thread. post the data buried in the thread, but link it up on the first page. that would work for us...if you are thinking about something more grand..."josh ricci designs" as a business...for example...a unique website makes more sense. i look forward to seeing your comparo's however it shakes out. you are an honest guy in a dishonest world. ;-)
post #88 of 479
Ltd02 I thought about something similar to that but there really is a lot of data and pictures. Probably over 200 graphs, measurements and pictures when it is all said and done. That's just for 9 speakers. It would be a nightmare to track that stuff in a regular thread.
post #89 of 479
Hey Ricci, any updates?
post #90 of 479
Unfortunately I don't have any further updates. Just waiting on the website to get done. It'll probably be another 2 weeks or so. Its a busy time of year and there are other priorities ahead of it. Believe me I'm anxious to have it done too.
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