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$1200 to spend on processor: Get a real Pre/Pro or Reciever?

post #1 of 122
8/22/10 at 11:19am
Thread Starter 
I currently have have a Rotel RMB-1095 as my power source but would like to upgrade my Yamaha RXV-2095 reciever (over 10 years old) that I am using as a PRE\\PRO.

I only have between $1000 and $1200 to spend, but on what.. another reciever that I will only use for processing or make a jump to a real pre\\pro? What brands and models should I be considering. I can spend a wee bit more if it is an absolute must.

50/50 percent music and blu-ray watcher. 3D is not needed. Would be nice to have Burr-Brown DACs.

Also, is it worth upgrading the Yamaha reciever if my Pioneer BDP-23FD's audio is connected via the component cables (not hdmi for audio)
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post #2 of 122
8/22/10 at 12:33pm
Since you've had a Yamaha for quite awhile , I'll start with that ...

RX-V1900
or
RX-V3900

Yamaha specs/comparison here: http://www.yamaha.com/yec/compare/De..._items=5016804

Both have good reviews and the price at Amazon right now is pretty darn good .

RX-V1900 - $579.99 http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V190...2505563&sr=1-1
RX-V3900 - $999.90 http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V390.../dp/B001E5CDRS
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post #3 of 122
8/22/10 at 12:37pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stereo55 View Post

Since you've had a Yamaha for quite awhile , I'll start with that ...

RX-V1900
or
RX-V3900

Yamaha specs/comparison here: http://www.yamaha.com/yec/compare/De..._items=5016804

Both have good reviews and the price at Amazon right now is pretty darn good .

RX-V1900 - $579.99 http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V190...2505563&sr=1-1
RX-V3900 - $999.90 http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V390.../dp/B001E5CDRS



Thanks, but I've owned Yamaha stuff since 1985. I think it's time to move on to something new.
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post #4 of 122
8/22/10 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BKSinAZ View Post

I currently have have a Rotel RMB-1095 as my power source but would like to upgrade my Yamaha RXV-2095 reciever that I am using as a PRE\\PRO.

I only have between $1000 and $1200 to spend, but on what.. another reciever that I will only use for processing or make a jump to a real pre\\pro? What brands and models should I be considering.

50/50 percent music and blu-ray watcher. 3D is not needed.

If you 'only' have 1200 your choice will likely have to be a receiver. prepros are more $$$. Sad but true. I think Integra has a prepro in that price range?

For 1200 you can get some serious receivers. Electronics these days seem to be a commodity in the midfi world. Would they be better than your existing Yammy? Do you want the new hd formats? hdmi? If you don't, used could be a good option. Parasound C1?
Or stretch your budget http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....2155&demo&3&4&

Choices...
What are your speakers?
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post #5 of 122
8/22/10 at 1:44pm
I think Onkyo and Integra may have processors in your range. Receivers can of course be cheaper processors than dedicated processors.

Receivers may have less output voltage than your typical dedicated processor. That could result in not being able to drive your amp to full power. I think they are often measured around 1 volt RMS.

The Yamaha RX-Z7 measured very well as a preprocessor, and might be had for $1200 on closeout (but for some reason, you are dismissing Yamaha with no good explanation.)

Whether there's an audible difference, I could not say.
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post #6 of 122
8/22/10 at 2:18pm
The Integra DHC-40.2 would fit within your budget.

Bill
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post #7 of 122
8/22/10 at 2:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfm View Post

If you 'only' have 1200 your choice will likely have to be a receiver. prepros are more $$$. Sad but true. I think Integra has a prepro in that price range?

For 1200 you can get some serious receivers. Electronics these days seem to be a commodity in the midfi world. Would they be better than your existing Yammy? Do you want the new hd formats? hdmi? If you don't, used could be a good option. Parasound C1?
Or stretch your budget http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....2155&demo&3&4&

Choices...
What are your speakers?

B&W 600 series speakers all the way around with a ACI Titan ll sub.
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post #8 of 122
8/22/10 at 2:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

The Integra DHC-40.2 would fit within your budget.

Bill

Does the Integra have Burr-Brown DACs?
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post #9 of 122
8/22/10 at 2:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BKSinAZ View Post

Does the Integra have Burr-Brown DACs?

They are quite common. I see no reason to assume that devices which don't have them are inferior though.
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post #10 of 122
8/22/10 at 3:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BKSinAZ View Post

B&W 600 series speakers all the way around with a ACI Titan ll sub.

Nice.
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post #11 of 122
8/22/10 at 3:44pm
For about half your budget you can get a Pioneer VSX-1120 AVR that uses the highly regarded BB PCM1691 DAC for audio and the equally regarded Marvell 88DE2750 Qdeo video processor. The Marvell is the same silicon used in the $2000 Pioneer flagship SC-37 AVR. You could use the other half of your budget to put towards a nice external amp with the VSX-1120 pre-outs.

This new 1120 model from pioneer is IMHO one of the best values in consumer electronics in quite a while. I think newegg even has it on sale right now for 499 or something which if you are ordering from outside CA is absolutely ridiculous bang for the buck in home theater kit.
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post #12 of 122
8/22/10 at 4:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jblaschk View Post

For about half your budget you can get a Pioneer VSX-1120 AVR that uses the highly regarded BB PCM1691 DAC for audio...

The Burr Brown PCM1691 is "highly regarded"? How so? Not to open the age old debate over the audible differences between modern DACs w/ outstanding specs, but the PCM1691 is a monolithic 8 channel DAC, essentially a base model. One 8 channel PCM1691 costs less than many of the Burr Brown or Wolfson stereo DACs found in higher end AVRs. And those AVRs require at least four of the stereo DACs for 7.1 channel D/A conversion.

AJ
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post #13 of 122
8/22/10 at 4:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BKSinAZ View Post

Does the Integra have Burr-Brown DACs?

Not sure but it would not be my biggest concern.

Bill
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post #14 of 122
8/22/10 at 4:48pm
Marantz is coming up with AV7005 pre pro with MSRP of 1499 and receiver with similar features for 1599. AGain these are MSRP's so you may be able to get them close to your budget. They all have HDMI 1.4 inputs. Supposedly available in Oct
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post #15 of 122
8/22/10 at 4:50pm
http://us.marantz.com/Products/172.asp

Here is link for reciever . If you google AV7005 for pre pro you will get enough hits
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post #16 of 122
8/22/10 at 6:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jblaschk View Post

The Marvell is the same silicon used in the $2000 Pioneer flagship SC-37 AVR. You could use the other half of your budget to put towards a nice external amp with the VSX-1120 pre-outs.

This new 1120 model from pioneer is IMHO one of the best values in consumer electronics in quite a while. I think newegg even has it on sale right now for 499 or something which if you are ordering from outside CA is absolutely ridiculous bang for the buck in home theater kit.

while the marvell is the same as used in the 37, the sc-09 is the "flagship" pioneer avr...

agreed on the "bargain" that the 1120 appears to be... ton of "goodies" for a REALLY good price...
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post #17 of 122
8/22/10 at 7:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jblaschk View Post

For about half your budget you can get a Pioneer VSX-1120 AVR that uses the highly regarded BB PCM1691 DAC for audio and the equally regarded Marvell 88DE2750 Qdeo video processor. The Marvell is the same silicon used in the $2000 Pioneer flagship SC-37 AVR. You could use the other half of your budget to put towards a nice external amp with the VSX-1120 pre-outs.

This new 1120 model from pioneer is IMHO one of the best values in consumer electronics in quite a while. I think newegg even has it on sale right now for 499 or something which if you are ordering from outside CA is absolutely ridiculous bang for the buck in home theater kit.

Why do I need to buy another external amp? I already have a rotel rmb-1095
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post #18 of 122
8/22/10 at 7:52pm
I have an Integra 40.1 that replaced my Rotel Rsp-1098. I have it paired with an RMB-1095. I have been impressed with the Integra pre-amp vs. the Rotel, especially at this price point. My dealer offered to let me trade it in on the Marantz AV7005 when it comes out, but I think I may stick with the Integra.

Good luck.
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post #19 of 122
8/22/10 at 8:52pm
For that price range, I would choose an Onkyo 3007 to use as a prepro. You can use the internal amps for heights or wides.
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post #20 of 122
8/23/10 at 4:12am
A "real" pre/pro is going to cost a heck of a lot more than $1200 unless you buy used.
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post #21 of 122
8/23/10 at 5:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antibayi View Post

For that price range, I would choose an Onkyo 3007 to use as a prepro. You can use the internal amps for heights or wides.

This is what I was thinking too, or add $300 and go 5007.
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post #22 of 122
8/23/10 at 5:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougeee View Post

A "real" pre/pro is going to cost a heck of a lot more than $1200 unless you buy used.

What are the sonic differences between a "real" prepro and using a quality AVR as a prepro? The Integra DHC-40.2 at $1200.00 and the Marantz AV7005 at $1500.00 (will most likely street price for close to $1200.00) are not real prepros? As a matter of fact what is a "real" prepro anyhow?

Bill
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post #23 of 122
8/23/10 at 5:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antibayi View Post

For that price range, I would choose an Onkyo 3007 to use as a prepro. You can use the internal amps for heights or wides.

I agree, the 3007 would make an excellent prepro.

Bill
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post #24 of 122
8/23/10 at 6:00am
+1 for the 3007.

James
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post #25 of 122
8/23/10 at 6:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

What are the sonic differences between a "real" prepro and using a quality AVR as a prepro? The Integra DHC-40.2 at $1200.00 and the Marantz AV7005 at $1500.00 (will most likely street price for close to $1200.00) are not real prepros? As a matter of fact what is a "real" prepro anyhow?

Bill

A real pre/pro is a preamp processor with no built in amplification. In theory, the lack of amplification components in the case makes for less noise and less heat (well the heat part is a fact). The noise thing is more or less up to you to hear, and if the benefit is real, the noise and more can easily be re-introduced unwittingly.

You also should get the benefit of a more powerful amp stage that should be able to reach reference levels and much higher without breaking a sweat.
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post #26 of 122
8/23/10 at 6:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcsoul View Post

A real pre/pro is a preamp processor with no built in amplification.

I think he understood that already. You might go back and check the context of his statement -- someone suggested that a "real" pre/pro costs more than a (presumably) "not real" pre/pro.

Anyway, I've owned several stereo preamps and multi-channel preamp/processors, and I've never heard any sonic advantages simply because they're separate. There are some theoretical advantages as you've described (lower noise and heat, as the low-level section is isolated from the high-power section), but I can't honestly say that that manifests itself sonically.

I have a Rotel RSP-1570 these days. I dunno if it's "real" or not.
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post #27 of 122
8/23/10 at 7:04am
"There are some theoretical advantages as you've described (lower noise and heat, as the low-level section is isolated from the high-power section), but I can't honestly say that that manifests itself sonically."

always the key of course, and always why no one does (differentiates) in properly conducted ABX listening tests.

James
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post #28 of 122
8/23/10 at 7:26am
[quote=mcsoul;19088062]
Quote:


A real pre/pro is a preamp processor with no built in amplification.

Thanks but I'm quite aware what a prepro is. My question was to the member that posted that you need to spend more than $1200.00 to get a "real" prepro. I am wondering why he thinks that.

Quote:


In theory, the lack of amplification components in the case makes for less noise and less heat (well the heat part is a fact). The noise thing is more or less up to you to hear, and if the benefit is real, the noise and more can easily be re-introduced unwittingly.

Both are true to a certain extent. Although I do not think anyone could hear an audible noise difference between a prepro and a quality AVR used as a prepro. As far as heat output my Onkyo 886 puts out some serious heat which is most likely from the video processor. So it is not a guarantee that you will have more heat output from an AVR compared to a prepro.

Quote:


You also should get the benefit of a more powerful amp stage that should be able to reach reference levels and much higher without breaking a sweat.

True but when using an AVR as a prepro you are using an external amp.

Bill
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post #29 of 122
8/23/10 at 7:27am
I agree with both of you and I probably did misunderstand his question. I would go with a high end Onkyo 3007 or 5007 maybe the new Marantz sr7005. Put the money saved on the 7 channel amp into 2 nice subs (DSP-3400's used being on top of my list if I could find them). Unless I had money to burn then the Marantz av8003 or av7005 pre/pros look like fun. Main benefit from pre/pro....the cool gadget factor. I'm sure with the "money to burn" thrown in the mix, there are people who could dream much bigger than me and already consider the av8003 combo some kind of compromise lol.
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post #30 of 122
8/23/10 at 7:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Brownstone View Post

I have a Rotel RSP-1570 these days. I dunno if it's "real" or not.

That would most definitely be a "real" prepro and a very good one at that.

Bill
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