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Woodside, NYC, NY: Can anyone recommend a good OTA antenna?

post #1 of 92
8/23/10 at 6:33am
Thread Starter 
I currently have this rabbit ears antenna:
http://www.amazon.com/RCA-ANT111-Bas...2569803&sr=8-2

It gets good UHF signal, but is terrible with VHF signals. I keep getting dropouts and picture breakup. It's odd though. You'd think it'd be the other way around.

I tried the roof antenna that the maintenance workers put up in our building. But it's the opposite. I get excellent VHF signal, but very poor UHF.

It's ridiculous. I can never find an antenna that gets good signal on BOTH UHF and VHF frequencies. I've been researching and all the good antennas are very expensive and the reviews are only average, at best. So, I don't want to spend a lot of money on an antenna if I'm not 100% sure it'll work well. Can anyone recommend any good VHF/UHF antennas out there?
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post #2 of 92
8/23/10 at 6:43am
Without knowing what area you live in, it will be almost impossible.
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post #3 of 92
8/23/10 at 6:48am
Thread Starter 
Zip Code 11377
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post #4 of 92
8/23/10 at 7:11am
Thread Starter 
How about this one?
http://www.jr.com/rca/pe/RCA_ANT1400/#productTabs

I can pick it up during my lunch break. As you can see from my zip code, it's shouldn't be THAT hard for me to get a half-decent signal on all the main stations.
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post #5 of 92
8/23/10 at 8:54am
Combine the VHF from the roof antenna and the UHF from your indoor antenna with one of these:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...uctId=2103923#

Note this is not a simple two-way splitter-combiner which is much cheaper. When used as a combiner, it filters out VHF from the UHF port, and UHF from the VHF port, so you get only UHF through one port and VHF through the other. This way the two signals don't interfere with each other.

VHF reception with indoor antennas is more problematical in general than with UHF, so if you get a good VHF signal from your roof antenna, take advantage of it!
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post #6 of 92
8/23/10 at 9:02am
I ran a TV Fool on zipcode 11377. This is an approximation, an address specific report is much better. Evidently you are within a few miles of the major locus for the TV transmitters in your area.

From what I see, if you you can get a western exposure you will have better luck. Also tell us about the construction of the building (any stucco on metal lath? anyother significant metal in the walls?).

The UHF problems with the roof top antenna could be the length of cable. UHF signals decrease much more rapidly then VHF for the same length of coax. Also, the antenna may have crappy UHF perfromance. Especially true if it is older.

One general comment, while your location is prime for indoor antennas, very few people get everything that they want from an indoor antenna. I think that the new RCA you are considering is supposed to be installed horizontally. Installing it on the wall may decrease its performance.
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post #7 of 92
8/23/10 at 10:09am
Thread Starter 
I have no idea what the construction of my building is, so I really can’t provide that information.

I went ahead and bought that RCA antenna. It seems to be the only antenna out there with half-decent reviews. And since I’m really not that far from the transmitters, I don’t think it should be THAT hard to find an antenna that gets a decent signal. If this antenna doesn’t work, then I’ll try jtbell’s advice on the splitter.
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post #8 of 92
8/24/10 at 3:03am
This is the antenna I use. I get all my channels with no breakups and I do no antenna adjusting.

Terk Low-Profile Indoor Antenna (TV5)

http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Low-Profi...2643917&sr=1-1
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post #9 of 92
8/24/10 at 6:39am
Thread Starter 
Ok.... this new RCA flat antenna is interesting. Like my old rabbit ears, UHF signal is great. No problems there. So, I get ABC without any problem since that channel uses the UHF signal. But VHF signals vary from channel to channel. CBS and FOX have very high signals. My9 is decent. NBC shows a low signal on the meter of my TV, but I have not experienced any breakups or dropouts. CW is low and experiences a lot of breakups. PBS is extremely low and kept getting dropouts. After I moved the antenna position a few inches to the right, it helped significantly and all channels seemed to work. And the signal strength increased significantly too. So, after I did that, everything seemed to work ok last night. But only time will tell…

If this doesn’t work out, I may try the splitter idea or I may look into getting a signal amplifier.

Just want to say one thing though….I have no idea how this digital conversion is supposed to be a good thing. They kept announcing it like it’s supposed to be better because it has better picture and saves bandwidth. But how on earth are we supposed to enjoy this if the picture is unstable?? With analog broadcast, I had no problems getting a good signal. And I had very little snow on the picture too. But ever since the conversion, my signal strength has suddenly become so low that I can’t get a stable picture. It’s ridiculous!
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post #10 of 92
8/24/10 at 6:46am
With the right setup, just a little tweaking, you should be able to get more channels.

And as far as the conversion, I believe the bandwidth the analogs were using were sold by the Government for other uses.

Is it possible that your tuner is not up to par?
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post #11 of 92
8/24/10 at 7:09am
Thread Starter 
The tuner is built in on my Samsung LN40A550 LCD TV. I recently dropped cable, so I'm trying to set up my OTA channels now.
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post #12 of 92
8/24/10 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post

….I have no idea how this digital conversion is supposed to be a good thing. They kept announcing it like it’s supposed to be better because it has better picture and saves bandwidth. But how on earth are we supposed to enjoy this if the picture is unstable??

With a suitable antenna, DTV reception is very reliable.

Indoor antennas are seldom suitable for digital VHF, due to the nature of the signal, insufficiently allotted transmitter power and more electrical interference in the VHF band. Many stations were smart and moved to the UHF band for DTV.

Both of the RCA antennas you have are not high on the list of antennas suggested on AVSForum. In fact, I have never seen anyone on AVS recommend either one of them.

If you want to try one more indoor antenna, the RS model#15-1874 is designed better than the RCA rabbit ear/loop antenna, and may work better than the two you bought. If you try it and still have VHF problems, buy a VHF/UHF signal combiner and use your indoor antenna for UHF and the roof antenna for VHF. If RS doesn't have V/U combiners in stock, order one here.

Where do you have the indoor antenna? It should be as far away from the TV and other electronics as possible, and preferably near a window facing the transmitters. If the coax is too short to move it, add an additional length with a barrel splice.
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post #13 of 92
8/24/10 at 9:01am
Thread Starter 
You know....what I find interesting is that when I finally position the antenna and get the signal just right on one channel, the opposite effect happens on another channel. For example, last night FOX's signal was weak. So, I played around and moved the antenna until the signal went up. Then when I tried CW (or PIX), the signal on that channel actually decreased. It's weird.
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post #14 of 92
8/24/10 at 3:50pm
Thread Starter 
It's weird. I moved the antenna by the window and almost all the channels got a very high signal except for NBC and My9, which are now very low. I don't understand. If CW and PBS can get very high signal, why not NBC and My9? PBS also uses VHF signal and the transmitter is supposedly further. This is so strange.
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post #15 of 92
8/24/10 at 6:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

If you try it and still have VHF problems, buy a VHF/UHF signal combiner and use your indoor antenna for UHF and the roof antenna for VHF. If RS doesn't have V/U combiners in stock, order one here.

Ok....this is my last resort. I ordered the splitter from that site and here's why....

I got my antenna at a position where it gets good signal on ALL channels, but I have one problem.....airplanes! Whenever one passes by over my building (which is very frequently), the signal drops out completely on NBC and CBS. So, I hooked up the antenna from my roof. It had absolutely no dropouts when the planes passed by. I doubt any indoor antenna will fix that, unfortunately.

So, I don't think my problem is my antenna or my tuner. The problem is the interference in my area. And the roof antenna is the only thing that can fight that. I suspect that our roof antenna is only a VHF antenna, which explains the poor UHF signal I'm getting. Since the roof antenna picks up great VHF signal and the indoor antenna picks up great UHF signal, then the splitter should do the trick, I hope.....

Thanks for all the input, guys. I appreciate it. Sorry for being a pain with my posts, but this is my first time without cable. Didn't realize OTA digital was this much of a pain, especially in the area I live. Well, I guess it'll pay off since I won't be getting those outrageous bills from Time Warner anymore. Heh!
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post #16 of 92
8/24/10 at 6:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post

...Didn't realize OTA digital was this much of a pain...

VHF is the pain.
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post #17 of 92
8/24/10 at 8:21pm
Thread Starter 
I tried very hard to avoid using the roof antenna because who knows if my building grounded it properly. I mean, God forbid a lightning strikes the antenna, then my TV could be toast. But I guess I'll have to take that chance.
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post #18 of 92
8/25/10 at 4:41am
With the Terk TV 5 indoor antenna I have I get all the stations in my area with 10 out of 10 bars on my signal indicator. I'm 8 miles from my broadcast towers and one of the channels is VHF. I have no breakups and do no antenna adjusting. Before I bought the Terk TV 5 I had rabbit ears and my VHF channel had a lot of breakups. MY mom and my sister use the Terk TV 5. My sister was only getting one channel with rabbit ears. She bought the Terk TV 5 and now gets all 13 channels in our area.

You still my want to give the Terk TV 5 antenna a try. With the right antenna the DTV signal is awesome. With DTV I get 13 channels and 6 are HD. In the analog days I only got 5 channels and had to deal with static and ghosting.

Yes it is nice to get the fangs from the cable company out of our necks. Since I cut the cord in November of 2008 I have saved $1,700 in cable fees. That will pay for a lot of DVDs or save the money for a rainy day.
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post #19 of 92
8/25/10 at 4:46am
If you can get above the house next door, that may help things considerably. And in general, outdoor antennas nearly always work better for VHF (and UHF) than indoor.

The purpose of grounding an antenna is to discharge static charges on it from the wind blowing across it, which may help protect equipment from static discharges and make the antenna less attractive to lightning. Grounding the antenna will not protect your home or electronics from a direct hit.
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post #20 of 92
8/25/10 at 6:23am
Thread Starter 
What's funny is that before the DTV conversion, almost all digital channels used the UHF frequency. Then when the analog channels shut off, almost all of the DTV channels moved to VHF. I don't know why they did that.
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post #21 of 92
8/25/10 at 6:43am
At transition, many of stations moved back to their old VHF analog channel, but it really depends on what market you're in. Several markets are all-UHF for the major digital channels, which makes antenna selection and reception much easier for folks in those areas.
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post #22 of 92
8/27/10 at 4:41pm
Thread Starter 
Odd! I got my splitter today and tried it. My problem was actually the opposite. My indoor antennas work great with VHF but struggle with UHF. And the roof antenna is good with UHF, but not VHF. Anyhow....the splitter worked. Strangely tho, I'm only getting a 30-40% signal on My9 though, but it doesn't seem to be dropping out or anything. I just don't understand why I can't get over 50% signal on ALL channels. You can get it on most channels, but not all. There's always a channel or two that's stubborn!
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post #23 of 92
8/27/10 at 5:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post

What's funny is that before the DTV conversion, almost all digital channels used the UHF frequency. Then when the analog channels shut off, almost all of the DTV channels moved to VHF. I don't know why they did that.

That depended on individual markets during pre-transition. In Chicago, WBBM-TV was the only station that was never on the UHF for pre & post-transition. Their analog was on 2, original digital channel was 3, and their current channel is 12. They were gonna be 11, but they changed their mind when they learned that the coverage would have shrunk from the coverage that WTTW had on 11 for analog. WWMT had their channels reversed: analog on 3 & digital on 2, and now on 8 after WOOD-TV abandoned 8 for pre-transition 7. So WBBM-TV & WWMT interfered with each other, along with not everyone using an outdoor antenna optimized Lo-VHF.

Now also in Chicago,WLS-TV didn't request for an additional channel before June 12th, and they were forced to go back to 7 for digital, since they were on 52. They did little testing prior to June 12th (what little testing was during the overnight hours). Most people who did have trouble getting them were mainly in downtown Chicago. I was one of the few who had better luck with WLS-TV on RF 7 than on RF 52. While RF 44 is better than it was, it's still weak compared to RF 7. What also hasn't helped for WLS-TV is that they refuse to grant them higher power in order to protect WOOD-TV on RF 7, who broadcasts at 30kw, while WLS-TV is only at 4.75kw. While WWTO LaSalle Illinois is technically a Chicago market station, it's really closer to the Peoria Illinois market. They were given RF 10 for their digital, and stayed there, rather than go back to 35. So technically, there are 3 VHF channels in Chicago, but only 2 of them can be received in the entire market. Once WLS-TV vacates RF 7, it's up for grabs, and might go to a minority business (possibly for a Spanish language network if WCHU-LP decides to move to RF 33 instead of waiting for RF 7 to vacated).

Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo had 4 stations testing their digital on the VHF: WWMT on RF 2, WGVK on RF 5, WOOD-TV on RF 7, & WGVU on RF 11. All 4 of these stations stayed on the VHF for post-transition, with only WOOD-TV & WWMT never getting a UHF channel. WWMT went to 8; WGVK didn't request a different channel, and 52 was out of core, and had to stay on 5; WOOD-TV stayed on 7, WGVU stayed on 11, & WZZM could have stayed on 39, but they chose to go back to 13. So the Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo market in Michigan gained 2 additional VHF channels.

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post #24 of 92
8/27/10 at 6:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post

Odd! I got my splitter today and tried it. My problem was actually the opposite. My indoor antennas work great with VHF but struggle with UHF. And the roof antenna is good with UHF, but not VHF. Anyhow....the splitter worked. Strangely tho, I'm only getting a 30-40% signal on My9 though, but it doesn't seem to be dropping out or anything. I just don't understand why I can't get over 50% signal on ALL channels. You can get it on most channels, but not all. There's always a channel or two that's stubborn!

So your using the roof VHF antenna for UHF? Sounds like overload or some sort of issue going on there.
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post #25 of 92
8/27/10 at 7:15pm
It is great that you got it working. I understand why some stations went back or stayed with VHF, but I wish everyone would have moved to UHF. In every market that I have tried, UHF usually comes in pretty easy with a bowtie. Last year, I put a bowtie on the roof of my house in North Miami and was able to pick up some West Palm UHF stations, which are like 50 miles away. If I ever stop and stay in one place, then I will probably pick up the Channelmaster.
http://www.channelmasterstore.com/Di...m#ReviewHeader
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post #26 of 92
8/27/10 at 9:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post

Odd! I got my splitter today and tried it. My problem was actually the opposite. My indoor antennas work great with VHF but struggle with UHF. And the roof antenna is good with UHF, but not VHF. Anyhow....the splitter worked. Strangely tho, I'm only getting a 30-40% signal on My9 though, but it doesn't seem to be dropping out or anything. I just don't understand why I can't get over 50% signal on ALL channels. You can get it on most channels, but not all. There's always a channel or two that's stubborn!

Indoor reception is a participation sport. The classic single bowtie would be another possible solution. In the NY OTA thread, a twenty-year-old Radio Shack double bow tie (UHF antenna) was reported doing very well in the city on all channels, including rf 7, 11 & 13. Just because the package says UHF doesn't mean it can't work for VHF. I receive rf 9 and 10 with the classic bowtie, and the towers are nearly 30 miles away. You are likely less than 5 miles. The bowtie doesn't pick up interference as bad as rabbit ears too. The Radio Shack UHF antennas receive VHF via a twin lead wire. Good Luck.
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post #27 of 92
8/27/10 at 10:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jspENC View Post

So your using the roof VHF antenna for UHF? Sounds like overload or some sort of issue going on there.

No, the roof appears to be UHF after all. My assumption was wrong when I thought it was VHF.
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post #28 of 92
8/28/10 at 1:27am
Our 25 year old radio shack combo UHF/VHF attic antenna does an excellent job bringing in all our OTA stations in our area.
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post #29 of 92
8/28/10 at 9:37am
When creating a thread regarding OTA antennas, please put your location in the topic title if it's not in your profile. See my edit.
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post #30 of 92
8/28/10 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post

When discussing OTA antennas, please put your location in the topic title if it's not in your profile.

Sorry, but I thought that my location is identified since it is stated on my AVS Avitar next to my name (Marin County, San Francisco Bay Area). I am located 16.3 miles North of the main broadcasting antenna (Sutro Tower) in San Francisco, California. In fact we have a clear view of the top half of the tower from our back yard so reception is excellent.

Incidentally, the antenna is a Radio Shack VU-110 with an overall lenght of 8'4" which is pointed directly at Sutro Tower in San Francisco.

Link to VU-110 Radio Shack Antenna:

http://support.radioshack.com/produc...tennas&Reuse=N

BTW, I've never had any luck with any of the indoor "digital" antennas or indoor amplified antennas.
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