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Newbie looking to get a HTIB - Page 2

post #31 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sholling View Post

OP if you're in the US and don't need 3D compatibility then a refurbished Onkyo TX-SR707 from accessories for less would be a really nice choice. It's last years model so no 3D support but it has a good amplifier section and lots of great features for under $400. I'm running one in my bedroom.

I am in the US. I'd like 3D support if possible, but it's not a necessity. What advantage would I get in terms of features from the TX-SR707 over something like the TX-SR508? The refurb TX-SR707 is $400, while a new TX-SR508 is only $275, and a refurb TX-SR607 is $280.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBusiness View Post

The Paradigm deal is almost unbeatable. That's an incredible speaker system, and easily mountable above the TV firing down towards the listening position, or beneath the screen. Add surround speakers as you budget for it.

Hmm, that looks like a nice deal, but one of the problems is that I have a DLP, so if I were to position them right above the TV, they would look pretty bad because the TV would be sticking out quite a bit further than them. And I don't want it below the TV, because I'll need all the space on the stand for storing stuff. So could I put them really far above the TV? Also, what's the downside to this setup, having all 3 speakers in one enclosure?
post #32 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by CQN View Post

I am in the US. I'd like 3D support if possible, but it's not a necessity. What advantage would I get in terms of features from the TX-SR707 over something like the TX-SR508? The refurb TX-SR707 is $400, while a new TX-SR508 is only $275, and a refurb TX-SR607 is $280.

3D support is good to have - if your TV supports 3D. If your TV doesn't then you'd upgrade them together later when the standards are more settled.

I haven't gone through the spec sheet but off the top of my head the 707 adds:
  • Audyssey MultiEQ - IMO it blows away MCACC, I've owned both
  • Various additional processing features
  • Better amplifier section
  • 4ohm certified
  • Preouts in case you decide to add an external amp someday.

Quote:


Hmm, that looks like a nice deal, but one of the problems is that I have a DLP, so if I were to position them right above the TV, they would look pretty bad because the TV would be sticking out quite a bit further than them. And I don't want it below the TV, because I'll need all the space on the stand for storing stuff.

FWIW you can put a normal sized center on a center stand that is designed to sit on the top of a DLP. Sears used to sell one. But it won't hold that beast.

Quote:


So could I put them really far above the TV? Also, what's the downside to this setup, having all 3 speakers in one enclosure?

Sound quality. Anything like this a box of compromises. You buy this style speaker when you have a flat screen and your wife won't let you buy bigger speakers.
post #33 of 59
If you have a DLP, why not get this stand and mount your center on it? Cheap and easy setup. We did this when my old roommate had a Sony SXRD TV. DLP is the same size.

http://www.amazon.com/OmniMount-CCH1...0&sr=8-1-fkmr2
post #34 of 59
Looks like you're making some good progress. Budget is the most difficult thing to pin down. I started out at $1000, then I bumped it up to $1500. I looked at all kinds of stuff from the Paradigm CT home theater line, to the Energy Take series, then I started looking at floorstanders and separate speaker configs. Eventually I found a steal that I couldn't pass up and ended up spending $350.

I picked up the Jamo S 506 HCS set from eBay. It includes two floorstanding L & R speakers and an S50 CEN center. I couldn't beat that price on a respectable brand of speakers anywhere else. Prior to finding that set, I was nearly dead set on a set of Infinity Primus. They're also a stellar deal at their current prices. The S 506 set was just a clean buy with everything in one box, all timbre matched. They sound fantastic, and I haven't even added a sub yet.
post #35 of 59
A note on receivers for home theater. When I was doing my research, one thing that always came up in home theater threads was Audyssey. There's a sticky at the top of the amp & receiver forum that contains a lot of details about it. In a nutshell, it adjusts your speakers for home theater duty automatically. Things like equalization, timing, and level adjustment are all done automatically. There are different levels of Audyssey support, but the entry level types are 2EQ and MultEQ. The big differences are:

2EQ - 3 listening positions and no sub-woofer adjustment
MultEQ - Up to six listening positions, sub-woofer adjustment, higher "resolution" analysis

IMO, if you're primary goal is HT, you should look for a unit with Audyssey; even if that means waiting a month or two to buy.
post #36 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post

A note on receivers for home theater. When I was doing my research, one thing that always came up in home theater threads was Audyssey. There's a sticky at the top of the amp & receiver forum that contains a lot of details about it. In a nutshell, it adjusts your speakers for home theater duty automatically. Things like equalization, timing, and level adjustment are all done automatically. There are different levels of Audyssey support, but the entry level types are 2EQ and MultEQ. The big differences are:

2EQ - 3 listening positions and no sub-woofer adjustment
MultEQ - Up to six listening positions, sub-woofer adjustment, higher "resolution" analysis

IMO, if you're primary goal is HT, you should look for a unit with Audyssey; even if that means waiting a month or two to buy.

The alternative is MCACC, which is used on other brands (ie. Pioneer). Either system will do a decent job to get users started with semi-decent initial settings; but, IMO, both require additional tweaking to really dial everything in.
post #37 of 59
Thread Starter 
Can anyone else comment on the Jamo S 506 HCSs? They look like a much better deal than the Infinity's.
post #38 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by CQN View Post

Can anyone else comment on the Jamo S 506 HCSs? They look like a much better deal than the Infinity's.

Probably tough to go wrong with those for $350. Anoldguyof43 (ebay seller) is legit too, will give you a store receipt for warranty purposes (I bought a receiver from him for a DEEP discount, and have been very pleased).

The reason I recommend Pioneer and the MCACC is the compatibility with your HTPC, you can control all the adjustments, and get read outs right on your pc, with some of the nicer models. I have a 2009 model Pioneer Elite VSX-21txh. This is ~ $500 now, but lacks 3D support. I think you can do this with the new non-elite 1120. I'd message anoldguyof43 and tell him you're looking to pick up the Jamos, a receiver, and maybe a sub (not sure what he has), he can make up a deal for you. He has stuff in his inventory that's not listed on eBay. You could ask him for an extra set of rear speakers for a 7.1 system (or maybe jamo makes some dipoles?)

Audyssey 2EQ is pretty useless, if going with an Audyssey equipped unit, definitely go MultEQ (if MultEQ XT is too $$$).
post #39 of 59
Off in another direction how about the SVSounds SBS-2 Deluxe 5.1 bundle. Yes it's much more than you want to spend but the "deluxe" version comes with a serious (PB12-NSD) subwoofer. The speakers are sealed and intended for wall or shelf mounting, and the reviews are good.
post #40 of 59
I have some of the same questions but maybe different availability of funds for new set up.

I'm starting with Pionner Elite 60" TV and wanting to add speakers and receiver. My budget is to stay under 2k for both. Any suggestions on where to start?
post #41 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by sooners23 View Post

I'm starting with Pionner Elite 60" TV and wanting to add speakers and receiver. My budget is to stay under 2k for both. Any suggestions on where to start?

I just recently purchased the following 5.1 setup for a total of $1650. You could add two more surrounds for 7.1 to make it an even $2k:

AVR: Pioneer VSX-1120-K
Front L/R: Polk Audio Monitor 70's
Center: Polk Audio CS2B
Surrounds: 2 x Emotiva ERD-1 (on order)
Subwoofer: BIC (Acoustech) PL-200
post #42 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by sooners23 View Post

I have some of the same questions but maybe different availability of funds for new set up.

I'm starting with Pionner Elite 60" TV and wanting to add speakers and receiver. My budget is to stay under 2k for both. Any suggestions on where to start?

1st. Room Parameters
2nd. Listening preferences (tonal accuracy/bass heavy, percentage movies/music)
3rd. Longer term budget ($2k initially, but maybe another $2k within the next 12 mos?)
4. Pick speakers (how do you want them to be placed mounted (on walls, in walls, on floor, a mixture of the three?)
5. Pick speakers (go listen, if possible, or listen to recommendation here, are you willing to buy used from Audiogon? From a factory direct company? Want dealer support?)
6. Pick components to match speakers (Receiver need 4-ohm support? Preouts for future upgrades, 5.1, 7.1, 9.2 channel?)
7. Buy installation materials from forum sponsor Monoprice
8. Install
9. Repeat steps 3 and 4 every couple years (or months if you read this site too much)

My recommendation would be to start small, but high quality (2.1 system), and add matching speakers as your budget allows. Think about how much bass you want, room shaking, heart pounding, or a bit less (look at Epik (best value for serious subs), Emotiva (their Ultra 10 is very musical, and cheap right now $189). For speakers, everyone has their preferences, I've been using the same speakers for 12 years, and am just starting to think about upgrading (Paradigm), but their are many other good speaker companies out there.
post #43 of 59
Some more specific guidance on new speakers at good prices:

Swan Diva
Martin Logan Preface - Free shipping, and way under retail. + this center (x3 for surround speakers also) ML Encore

Jeez...thos ML deals are giving me an itch I might need to scratch. They are 4-ohm rated, however, ML states that they can be used with an 8-ohm amp. A very small amount of people have had an issue with this, so to be extra safe you MIGHT want to consider a 4-ohm compatible receiver. I'd just make sure you buy a receiver with a quality amp section (Pioneer Elite) or a 4 ohm capable like the Onkyo 707 found here for cheap brand new, not reconditioned here.

EDIT: better prices at frys: center and surrounds

Fronts - out of stock Maybe Audio Advisor would price match?
post #44 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBusiness View Post

Probably tough to go wrong with those for $350. Anoldguyof43 (ebay seller) is legit too, will give you a store receipt for warranty purposes (I bought a receiver from him for a DEEP discount, and have been very pleased).

OK, I'll probably go with those then. They come with 2 surrounds as well, which is nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBusiness View Post

The reason I recommend Pioneer and the MCACC is the compatibility with your HTPC, you can control all the adjustments, and get read outs right on your pc, with some of the nicer models. I have a 2009 model Pioneer Elite VSX-21txh. This is ~ $500 now, but lacks 3D support. I think you can do this with the new non-elite 1120.

Well I'm running Linux on my HTPC, so I doubt displaying the readouts on it would be supported.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBusiness View Post

I'd message anoldguyof43 and tell him you're looking to pick up the Jamos, a receiver, and maybe a sub (not sure what he has), he can make up a deal for you. He has stuff in his inventory that's not listed on eBay. You could ask him for an extra set of rear speakers for a 7.1 system (or maybe jamo makes some dipoles?)

OK, sounds good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBusiness View Post

Audyssey 2EQ is pretty useless, if going with an Audyssey equipped unit, definitely go MultEQ (if MultEQ XT is too $$$).

I'll try to go with Audyssey MultEQ then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sholling View Post

Off in another direction how about the SVSounds SBS-2 Deluxe 5.1 bundle. Yes it's much more than you want to spend but the "deluxe" version comes with a serious (PB12-NSD) subwoofer. The speakers are sealed and intended for wall or shelf mounting, and the reviews are good.

That looks pretty expensive, but I'll compare it to the final price after adding in the receiver and sub to the Jamo speakers.
post #45 of 59
A recommendation on the sub. Like everyone else has said, you can save a lot of money by going with a third-party sub. Meaning, you don't necessarily have to have a Jamo sub. I think the Jamo subs look really nice, but hey, it's a sub. Any way you slice it, it's a big black box. There are links at the top of the forum to HSU and Emotiva. HSU makes a nice little sub called the STF-1 that sells for $250 and rocks socks according to the reviews.
post #46 of 59
A little more info.
1. Mid size bedroom not sure of dimensions
2. More movies than music, prefer accuracy over heavy bass
3. Willing to put more $ into it in future, 2k is just the start
4. System is going in large entertainment piece, so need bookshelf type speakers
5. Don't want used speakers but would consider buying direct.
6. I was looking at buying this receiver Pioneer VSX-1120-K, is this a good receiver in your opinion?
post #47 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post

A recommendation on the sub. Like everyone else has said, you can save a lot of money by going with a third-party sub. Meaning, you don't necessarily have to have a Jamo sub. I think the Jamo subs look really nice, but hey, it's a sub. Any way you slice it, it's a big black box. There are links at the top of the forum to HSU and Emotiva. HSU makes a nice little sub called the STF-1 that sells for $250 and rocks socks according to the reviews.

Yeah, I'll contact the guy and see if he has any HSU or Emotiva subs that I can get with the Jamo's for a discount. But I'll first make the measurements and contact HSU and Emotiva for some suggestions on what to get.
post #48 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by sooners23 View Post

A little more info.
1. Mid size bedroom not sure of dimensions
2. More movies than music, prefer accuracy over heavy bass
3. Willing to put more $ into it in future, 2k is just the start
4. System is going in large entertainment piece, so need bookshelf type speakers
5. Don't want used speakers but would consider buying direct.
6. I was looking at buying this receiver Pioneer VSX-1120-K, is this a good receiver in your opinion?

Sooners23>
Start your own thread with all of your info and we'll be happy to help you there. CQN is still all over the map, so I'd hate to distract him from his own topics.

CQN>
OK, as I said above, you still seem to be all over the map. You appear to be jumping on each suggestion the first time it is made by any single poster, or quickly bouncing back and forth with the winds. IMO, you really need to take advantage of the forums here and research each suggested piece of equipment or technology. There is a reason AVS has a dedicated forum for each inividual component. Take advantage of that fact and you'll be much better off in the end.

One example is the Audessey vs MCACC issue. IMO, you should not make a receiver decision, or eliminate options, based on this single factor -- unless/until you truly understand the differences between the two technologies. In fact, since you're starting fresh, I believe your decision should be based on other, perhaps more important/immediate, factors. The auto-tuning method is only significant if/when you have experience with both of them, and then you can make an educated decision as to your personal preference. Until that time, any one of the methods would work perfectly fine for you.

Once again, I suggest you take every opinion posted here and research it individually. The resulting education you receive will be invaluable when you finally pull the trigger, receive your equipment, install it, and then finally tweak it.

Take things one step at a time, one piece at a time, and one forum at a time. Make a list of every suggestion here. Chances are, you will find an individual dedicated thread around here for every single one of them. You should also study each manufacturer's website for the items you're most interested in, as well as *gasp* other forums and AV enthusiast websites. (Google is your friend! ) Most manufacturers also have forums of their own. Read reviews and industry articles debating the merits of, and comparing, various technologies.

The real key is to try and understand the underlying technology for every component and how hey work with one another. Otherwise, you're simply comparing specification checklists without a clue as to what each specification means.

This is all just some free advice from someone who spent many, MANY, months researching his system... trust me, my patience paid off, and I'm loving every single decision I've made. The countless hours I've spent reading, making phone calls, auditioning equipment, and hunting down deals, have jump-started this hobby and made me much more confident whenever I pull the trigger on a new piece of the puzzle.

I'm not saying that it should take months, but it should certainly take more than one or two sentences, in any single post, by any one poster, to sway you one way or another on each topic!

Good luck!

PS: Since this is the Speaker forum, let's stick to finding you some decent LCR speakers, and then go from there...

PPS: If none of the above interests you, and you decide that you really don't have the patience to do this properly, then I suggest going with the best Onkyo HTIB you can find, and be done with it. (By the way, unlike most other HTIB's, each component in the Onkyo series is, in fact, upgradeable, since they use standard Onkyo AV components and normal cables/connectors in their kits).
post #49 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post

A recommendation on the sub. Like everyone else has said, you can save a lot of money by going with a third-party sub. Meaning, you don't necessarily have to have a Jamo sub. I think the Jamo subs look really nice, but hey, it's a sub. Any way you slice it, it's a big black box. There are links at the top of the forum to HSU and Emotiva. HSU makes a nice little sub called the STF-1 that sells for $250 and rocks socks according to the reviews.

You have to take room size and use into account. The stf-1 is a fine little music sub to set next to your desk in a small home-office. But it lacks both the size and extension to make it a movie sub in even a medium sized room. In subwoofers size does matter.
post #50 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by sholling View Post

You have to take room size and use into account. The stf-1 is a fine little music sub to set next to your desk in a small home-office. But it lacks both the size and extension to make it a movie sub in even a medium sized room. In subwoofers size does matter.

Well, it all depends on your goals. If your goal is to achieve reference levels, then I absolutely agree with you. But if your primary goal is to come in under budget, the difference between no sub, and the STF-1 is like the difference between zero and one You find the best value for your money and put it in your room. With a budget of $1000 for AVR, speakers, and sub... I'm thinking he's kind of screwed if his room is big.

I'm facing the same conundrum. My room is literally 24' x 16' with 17' cathedral ceilings and an open airspace in to the kitchen that can't be sealed. Any idea what a sub to fill that space would cost? I looked in to it. I'd have to spend $800+ just on the sub.

Agree with you in principle though. It's worth the effort to look at room dimensions and see what would be recommended, then get as close as you can to that within the budgeted amount.
post #51 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by CQN View Post

Well I'm running Linux on my HTPC, so I doubt displaying the readouts on it would be supported.

The functionality JustBusiness was referring to is web-based, so it will work in any web browser, regardless of the operating system or device you use.
post #52 of 59
why a HTIB?
post #53 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by sholling View Post

You have to take room size and use into account. The stf-1 is a fine little music sub to set next to your desk in a small home-office. But it lacks both the size and extension to make it a movie sub in even a medium sized room. In subwoofers size does matter.

I came very close to buying the HSU, but I went with the BIC (Acoustech) PL-200, at $270, instead... for the very reasons you mentioned. I got much more sub for my money, and I'd argue that the PL200 is easily the most sub you can get for under $300. (For pre-built subs meant mostly for movies, that is...)
post #54 of 59
That PL200 looks incredible! I'm adding that to my short list of subs.
post #55 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by palehorse View Post

I came very close to buying the HSU, but I went with the BIC (Acoustech) PL-200, at $270, instead... for the very reasons you mentioned. I got much more sub for my money, and I'd argue that the PL200 is easily the most sub you can get for under $300. (For pre-built subs meant mostly for movies, that is...)

That Emotiva Ultra10 is pretty impressive at the $289 sale price (with free shipping, and no tax).
post #56 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBusiness View Post

That Emotiva Ultra10 is pretty impressive at the $289 sale price (with free shipping, and no tax).

I have heard good things about the Emotiva, but I've never heard it, so I really can't compare the two. Prior to buying my PL200, I heard both the lower-priced BIC F12 and H100 models. Based on how good each of those sounded, plus the neverending love the PL200 gets in the subwoofer forum here, I went with it and have never looked back.

With a lot of space to fill, I think a pair of either one of them -- PL200 or Ultra10 -- would do pretty well.
post #57 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by palehorse View Post

I have heard good things about the Emotiva, but I've never heard it, so I really can't compare the two. Prior to buying my PL200, I heard both the lower-priced BIC F12 and H100 models. Based on how good each of those sounded, plus the neverending love the PL200 gets in the subwoofer forum here, I went with it and have never looked back.

With a lot of space to fill, I think a pair of either one of them -- PL200 or Ultra10 -- would do pretty well.

The PL200 does look nice, I don't know why, but I've never been a fan of BIC (unjustly too, because I've never heard it). Probably because of their mark-up to mark-down style of selling, but the PL200 looks like a hell of a sub for $300, BASH amp, and HSU Research design/consultation. It's ported, while the Ultra10 is sealed. Hooking up my Ultra 12 in a 6000 cubic foot room tomorrow. Will post results over the weekend, after tuning, and placement options.
post #58 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post

Well, it all depends on your goals. If your goal is to achieve reference levels, then I absolutely agree with you. But if your primary goal is to come in under budget, the difference between no sub, and the STF-1 is like the difference between zero and one You find the best value for your money and put it in your room. With a budget of $1000 for AVR, speakers, and sub... I'm thinking he's kind of screwed if his room is big.

I'm facing the same conundrum. My room is literally 24' x 16' with 17' cathedral ceilings and an open airspace in to the kitchen that can't be sealed. Any idea what a sub to fill that space would cost? I looked in to it. I'd have to spend $800+ just on the sub.

Agree with you in principle though. It's worth the effort to look at room dimensions and see what would be recommended, then get as close as you can to that within the budgeted amount.

I look at it this way ---> It's cheaper to buy something that sounds good to begin with than it is to buy something you'll just get discussed with and replace later. That's why I usually suggest starting with two really good front speakers and a sub that fits the room. Then add a center and surrounds as money allows. If money doesn't allow for quite the right size sub up front then you can go smaller with a plan to add a second sub later.

An alternate method would be just to start with the very best near full range left and right front towers that you can afford. Then add a properly sized sub when money allows. And only then buy the matched center and a set of surrounds.
post #59 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by sholling View Post

I look at it this way ---> It's cheaper to buy something that sounds good to begin with than it is to buy something you'll just get discussed with and replace later. That's why I usually suggest starting with two really good front speakers and a sub that fits the room. Then add a center and surrounds as money allows. If money doesn't allow for quite the right size sub up front then you can go smaller with a plan to add a second sub later.

An alternate method would be just to start with the very best near full range left and right front towers that you can afford. Then add a properly sized sub when money allows. And only then buy the matched center and a set of surrounds.

Definitely a good strategy. Can't disagree with that But it's one of many. I think you have to factor in your own personal disposition toward decisions though. I'm relatively adept at making a decision that involves compromise while avoiding buyer's remorse. I spend a lot of time making sure my goals are solid before I start trying to make the purchase decision, so after the fact, I can always look back and feel good about my purchase, even if I don't have the best equipment.

Horses for courses
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