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A stupid videocard question :)

post #1 of 36
8/24/10 at 2:25pm
Thread Starter 
I'm still using my GTX 260 Black edition, driving a 1080p monitor. For most games its doing the job....for a few I'm having to back off.

I toy with this idea every 6 months, "upgrade!".....i have an SLI capable motherboard with a Quad-core Wolfdale chip I believe....or something.....so I'm not even into the iWhatevers. However I'm not really sure of an upgrade path for me.....1080p is what I'd be driving.

Seems like ATi is still sitting on the 5880??.....the 5890 is the dual-GPU hyper expensive monster right? And the Geforce 460's and 480's and stuff are kind of underperforming power hogs? Still?

Can someone school me.....whats my path, if anything.
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post #2 of 36
8/24/10 at 2:34pm
GTX460 has received some rave reviews. That is is a much more efficient card, costs about $200, overclocks well and can give a Radeon 5870 a run for its money when OC'd.

Driving a single 1080p, you really don't need a super card. A GTX460 or a Radeon 5850 should definitely work for you. I'd stay away from SLI cause you would be essentially buying yet another pre-DX11 card.
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post #3 of 36
8/24/10 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

And the Geforce 460's and 480's and stuff are kind of underperforming power hogs? Still?

Can someone school me.....whats my path, if anything.

I'm guessing you're confusing the 460 with the 470, which launched alongside the 480. The GTX 480 is still the fastest single GPU card available but given its price and power consumption most people were disappointed. It actually manages to consume more energy then the dual-GPU HD 5970 while providing less performance.

The GTX 460 launched in July to pretty rave reviews. Great performance/power, excellent SLI numbers and a good price. In fact, TomsHardware just gave the 768MB and 1GB models their Best PCIe Card nod at ~$200 and ~230 respectively. If I was buying a card today it'd be the GTX 460 1GB but of course there is always something else around the corner.
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post #4 of 36
8/24/10 at 3:44pm
if you buy the 460, only get the 1 gb version. They are clocked differently than the 768gb models and performs a fair bit better.
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post #5 of 36
8/24/10 at 6:53pm
I'm really happy with mt GTX 470...for what it is worth.
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post #6 of 36
8/24/10 at 6:59pm
"if you buy the 460, only get the 1 gb version. They are clocked differently than the 768gb models and performs a fair bit better."

Something like a 5% performance improvement for a 15% cost increase? Bad advice.

Head - In general, everything I'm seeing says that the 460 768MB is a great little card for $200.
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post #7 of 36
8/24/10 at 9:11pm
Thread Starter 
I guess I must be high...I'm looking online and I'm seeing GTX 260's and GTX 460's...look to be barely an upgrade.

I'm guessing for $200 I'm talking about mostly a lateral move......I could buy another 260, double my power consumption and have..what...somewhere between a single 470 and single 480.....but no DX11.

Or I could sell the 260....and....err.....I guess at this point I'm probably talking about buying a 470 or a 5870, and if I was going to do that maybe just buying the second 260 for $200 would be the smart move.
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post #8 of 36
8/24/10 at 11:30pm
Going over your original post again, I would lean towards agreeing with you. The 460 is faster than a 260, but not by more than the 50% that a second 260 would net you. I wouldn't pay any more than ~$140 for a second 260 though.

I would also dig in to what your processor actually is. If you are running Intel Quad, but at like 2.4-2.66ghz, that may be where your bottleneck is sitting. Load up Task Manager on the performance page and go run a game that you are having some performance issues with. Load up your preferred max-settings and Alt-Tab out of the game when you see a framerate dip to see if any of your individual cores are maxing out. Or you can keep a real-time eye on that meter while in game if you have a second monitor.
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post #9 of 36
8/25/10 at 4:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

I guess I must be high...I'm looking online and I'm seeing GTX 260's and GTX 460's...look to be barely an upgrade.

I'm guessing for $200 I'm talking about mostly a lateral move......I could buy another 260, double my power consumption and have..what...somewhere between a single 470 and single 480.....but no DX11.

Or I could sell the 260....and....err.....I guess at this point I'm probably talking about buying a 470 or a 5870, and if I was going to do that maybe just buying the second 260 for $200 would be the smart move.

Well a 5870 is still near $400, which would buy you two GTX 460, which is a way sweet setup.
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post #10 of 36
8/25/10 at 6:47am
Thread Starter 
My quad is running a 3.2ghz on air, stock voltage. I see a 260 216core overclocked EVGA card on Ebay for cheap......a lot of them actually.

But I just realized something....I'm gonna have quite the hairdryer on my hands with two of these things running. As it is on the black I have to put the fan at 80 to keep the temps reasonable.......and thats loud enough.

Is the 5870 hairdryer loud....I just hate spending big money on a part that feels so old :P
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post #11 of 36
8/25/10 at 7:03am
Most of the 5870 fans are quiet when left on auto. Depending on the company and cooler/fan type the fans will auto at idle at 20%-55% with temps of 25c-33c in a well vent case. Some will get loud when they go pass 75%. I have three and intsalled a few others.

Head the GTX460's do not run hot when compared to the 470/480. I would rec that you get a GTX460 for 1080 and add a 2nd if needed instead of a 5870. Why waste money on old tech like the GTX260 esp since they do not support DX11.
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post #12 of 36
8/25/10 at 7:19am
Thread Starter 
DX11 to me right now is like DX10 was....sucks the life out of all current cards for no visual benefit, couldn't care less until a game comes out that doesn't support DX10.
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post #13 of 36
8/25/10 at 7:20am
Using this chart to compare the configurations in question might help.

The 460 is a nice bump, especially using AA, from the 260 but maybe not a $200 bump. Adding another 260 will give you great performance (better than the 5870 in several benchmarks) but will run at 56dB and draw another 205 watts. The 5870 has great single GPU performance and runs quiet but is the most expensive path.

If you're just looking for the most amount of performance for the least amount of money picking up another 260 is the obvious way to go. If you have the money get a 5870. But for your situation, running at 1080, the 460 still seems like a great way to go. Unfortunately 460 SLI wasn't available for the chart but the upgrade from an additional card is almost linear! So you'll have that to look forward to as well.
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post #14 of 36
8/25/10 at 7:22am
Thread Starter 
GTX 260 at $135 ish on Ebay........so for $135 I get close to a single 5870 or 470-480....for $135. My seasonic 700 watt PS should be able to handle both....I'm going to give it a shot. Worst Case I made a mistake, I sell both cards and buy something else.

UPDATE:
Just picked up a 260 216 Superclocked (clocks close to my Black version) on ebay for $135 shipped. I've got enough juice on the Seasonic I think to handle both cards. Nice short term solution, and if it doesn't work out I'll go for
something more modern, and have two reasonable cards (I have some 720p projectors i've been tempted to build out a gaming box with)...
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post #15 of 36
8/25/10 at 7:25am
Cool! Let us know how it goes.
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post #16 of 36
8/25/10 at 5:13pm
I have a question...is it dumb to pay a premium for a factory overclocked card vs. buying a normally clocked card (cheaper) and OC'ing it yourself? I'm thinking that the factory OC card would be under warranty and if OC it, it wouldn't be??
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post #17 of 36
8/25/10 at 5:30pm
Look at it simply as cost versus benefit. Some providers OC at the same price point as their differentiating factor. Others OC 3%, but then charge a 10% price premium for it. The first case is rad, the second case is for suckers.
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post #18 of 36
8/25/10 at 5:57pm
This may not be true but I thought manufacturers used GPU's that came off the assembly line superior in someway to make the overclocked cards. The chips just rate higher for some manufacturing reason.
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post #19 of 36
8/25/10 at 6:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

"if you buy the 460, only get the 1 gb version. They are clocked differently than the 768gb models and performs a fair bit better."

Something like a 5% performance improvement for a 15% cost increase? Bad advice.

Head - In general, everything I'm seeing says that the 460 768MB is a great little card for $200.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3809/n...0-the-200-king

And have you even look around for prices? ncix had a surprise sale 2 days ago for the 1gb version for $209.99. I've seen them go for $215.99. and it's almost 10% performance increase in a number of case. Maybe YOU have the bad advice
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post #20 of 36
8/25/10 at 8:37pm
Thread Starter 
I should have the card in a couple days and now I have to ask three questions:

1) I know I need to dig out the little SLI bridge that came with my cards
2) I know my motherboard requires me to flip a switch or something to enable SLI mode.
3) What in gods name do I need to do with drivers...is it just plug and play? Example I've got borderlands, I've got MW2, I've got a bunch of other games....do they all require profiles to play in SLI?

Is there a good SLI website I need to hit to figure out how to make all this work...?

I noticed my bLACK edition, for most games, needs the fan at 60-70% running under full load, and I overclock the black a little bit. I think what I'll do now is just leave the black alone, bump the superclock up to black speeds (a minor uppage), and then set both fans at 50% and see if I get lockups......
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post #21 of 36
8/25/10 at 8:41pm
Thread Starter 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...tem=14-150-500

Decided on this instead....it just screams bang for the buck......
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post #22 of 36
8/25/10 at 11:24pm
"And have you even look around for prices? Blah blah blah"

The way you talk, you'd think that it's impossible to go to Newegg right now and pick up a 460 768MB for $190. I'd also be willing to bet that one could hunt down a "surprise sale" $180 card without too much effort. Oh, I see. Newegg has that too.

In addition, your linked article shows just about as many "no difference" results as it does "7-10% better" results. In aggregate, you are looking at maybe a 5% difference, if you have no other bottleneck anywhere in your system, and given a high enough resolution to play at. In the mean time, you are still looking at a 15-20% price increase for that 5% of potential performance. Pfft, looking again at your linked article, the consistent best performer is the mildly overclocked 768MB card.

Hell, let's pick on one more thing, shall we?

"if you buy the 460, only get the 1 gb version. They are clocked differently than the 768gb models"

You can't even get basic facts straight, dude. The stock clocks are the same between the cards. The biggest difference is the ram's bit-width, which comes in to play most when you are pushing higher resolutions. Even the mildly overclocked versions tend to be the same speeds within a manufacture.

"Decided on this instead....it just screams bang for the buck."

You win the thread, Head.
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post #23 of 36
8/25/10 at 11:48pm
"This may not be true but I thought manufacturers used GPU's that came off the assembly line superior in someway to make the overclocked cards. The chips just rate higher for some manufacturing reason."

It's a practice called speed binning. All of the GPU's are physically the same.

Every piece of silicon has a certain level of defect in it. The idea is to make the standard clock at the level that that defect does not become apparent. For example, if you clock a design at 800mhz, and only 30% of your parts will run at that speed, but then try 700mhz and result in 95% of your parts running great, 700mhz just now became the standard clock speed. EVGA (for example), will take those 700mhz GPUs and make a bunch of cards. In the testing process at the end of assembly, they will then try to find the 30% that would have run great at 800mhz, and then conservatively clock the final product at 750mhz to reduce customer returns due to crashes. 30% of their cards are now 750mhz factory overclocks, and 70% are 700mhz standard clocks. Same hardware, same card, different firmware and different box.

The above are entirely made up numbers, and are only intended to present the practice with example.
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post #24 of 36
8/26/10 at 6:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...tem=14-150-500

Decided on this instead....it just screams bang for the buck......

Wise choice That graphics card comes with a toy gun, seriously?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

What in gods name do I need to do with drivers...is it just plug and play? Example I've got borderlands, I've got MW2, I've got a bunch of other games....do they all require profiles to play in SLI?

Is there a good SLI website I need to hit to figure out how to make all this work...?

I noticed my bLACK edition, for most games, needs the fan at 60-70% running under full load, and I overclock the black a little bit. I think what I'll do now is just leave the black alone, bump the superclock up to black speeds (a minor uppage), and then set both fans at 50% and see if I get lockups......

The GeForce drivers are now at a point where upgrading to SLI is easy.
  • Just plug in the additional card(preferably when your computer isn't running).
  • Boot the computer up(the new card's fans might run full out until the driver takes control).
  • Enable SLI in the Nvidia control panel.
  • Watch it recognize the new card and probably reboot.
  • Profit!!!
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post #25 of 36
8/26/10 at 7:19am
Thread Starter 
Sorax, I believe if you remove the ATI card from the computer and put it into the Gun Case, the Gun Case will then actually shoot electricity like a Taser as long as the capacitors on the card still hold a charge....

....I'm making that up but you never know..... Regardless its the most retarded marketing thing I've seen in awhile.
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post #26 of 36
8/26/10 at 4:58pm
One thing to watch for is that every time you update your Nvidia drivers, SLI will be disabled by default.
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post #27 of 36
8/26/10 at 5:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

"And have you even look around for prices? Blah blah blah"

The way you talk, you'd think that it's impossible to go to Newegg right now and pick up a 460 768MB for $190. I'd also be willing to bet that one could hunt down a "surprise sale" $180 card without too much effort. Oh, I see. Newegg has that too.

In addition, your linked article shows just about as many "no difference" results as it does "7-10% better" results. In aggregate, you are looking at maybe a 5% difference, if you have no other bottleneck anywhere in your system, and given a high enough resolution to play at. In the mean time, you are still looking at a 15-20% price increase for that 5% of potential performance. Pfft, looking again at your linked article, the consistent best performer is the mildly overclocked 768MB card.

Hell, let's pick on one more thing, shall we?

"if you buy the 460, only get the 1 gb version. They are clocked differently than the 768gb models"

You can't even get basic facts straight, dude. The stock clocks are the same between the cards. The biggest difference is the ram's bit-width, which comes in to play most when you are pushing higher resolutions. Even the mildly overclocked versions tend to be the same speeds within a manufacture.

"Decided on this instead....it just screams bang for the buck."

You win the thread, Head.

Well I guess I should have said the "will" clock differently.
10% is 10%, every bit helps. Higher res and AA seem to do pretty well on the 1gb vs the 768mb but of course you knew that didn't ya Ol' DarklordJimmy
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post #28 of 36
8/26/10 at 5:35pm
Does anyone know what this black thing is with all the USB cables going into it? Is it a USB hub? If so, why would it be inside the case?

http://www.murderbox.com/img/gallery/mb.008.5236.jpg

more pics:
http://www.murderbox.com/gallery.html

Thx
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post #29 of 36
8/26/10 at 8:40pm
Looks like a usb hub. Why is it inside the case? Because it can? Kind of dumb if you ask me.
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post #30 of 36
8/27/10 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfoolery_79 View Post

Does anyone know what this black thing is with all the USB cables going into it? Is it a USB hub? If so, why would it be inside the case?

http://www.murderbox.com/img/gallery/mb.008.5236.jpg

more pics:
http://www.murderbox.com/gallery.html

Thx

Now that's what I call cable management
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