reversing plasma burn in - Page 3

unless the op has a few alternate S.N.'s lol no but WOW I can understand needing to do whatever during the first 100hrs with prescribed settings & limiting content to slides or full screen or whatever's necessary, but after that? Keeping limits on how long you can watch sports & news, certain games you can & can't play... watching MOVIES with black bars?! Surely these are not areas of abuse? I could never have one, because I sometimes fall asleep with the tv on, and watch lots of channels with static graphics/logos etc.

Well at least flat panels aren't sucseptible to magnet abuse. I once made a big nasty multicolored blob in the corner of a crt by getting a magnet too close to it. That thing stuck around. Now that I'd classify as abuse.





Thirty minute TOO LONG!

I can't understand needing to break in my TV with slides and only 16:9 content for 100-500 hours. I ought to be able to just use my TV any way that I desire right out of the box. I certainly agree that movies with black bars and playing a game for a few hours cannot be considered abuse.

I'm curious... Do the manufacturers warn against static images on screen for too long in the owners manuals? Do they advise break in periods? Do they even address IR and burn in at all? I'm going to go find some owners manuals right now.

I always keep my picture adjustments at reasonable levels and I have never worried about break in. My Panny is almost 10 months old. I watch sports including ESPN and the YES channel with those silly logos, along with loads of movies with letter box content, and have absolutely no issues with IR.

Ian

Yea, but the problem with direct-view CRT's is that they are small.

The viewing distance that HDTV was designed for is 3X the picture height. For a 32" CRT set, that's gonna put you very close to the tube. Any further away, anyone with 20/20 vision doesn't have the visual accuity to perceive the resolution afforded by a 1920x1080 picture.

Another issue is that it was very difficult to make CRT shadow masks with 2 million pixels. Other than expensive (and small) professional monitors, most direct-view sets were not able to display full HD resolutions.

Then throw in convergence and other geometry problems (and yes burn-in for long-term static images), and it's clear that direct-view CRT's weren't perfect, either.

You probably have air bubbles trapped inside the plasma particles. Maybe during storage before you got your tv, the plasma crystals froze and when it de-thawed, air bubbles formed because the liquid wasnt able to disperse properly back into the plasma. I would try using a credit card and go smooth that section with the IR out and see if that works. Kinda like when your putting on tint, how you gotta use a flat edge to get the air bubbles out.

lol. its either that or fox.

well this same crap happen too me playing dragon age orgins on the 360.
i was on the gt25 model and the character profiles on the screen never went away
you could see a fade in character logos in the back ground, and my xbox 360
gears of war theme when ever you turn the tv off, on a black screen.. i just gave up
and return it too amazon,now i have a TC-P50ST30 i dont think i will game on it
and just use it for movies only.. ill use my led for gameing.. however its a shame because i so wanted too use it for both

i just got my tv yesterday and called panasonic, and they said they
dont break in tvs any longer.. basically, you just have too be carful about what you
watch for period of time, and news, tickers, logos> ..basically i did the break in- process
with the gt25, i still got image retention, so my thing is is the image retention?
a new name for burn in? because some of the image retention doent go away.
i agree you should be able too use your tv strait out of the box with out the hassle.

Ditto. Had mine for almost 3 months now.

I just make sure to mix up the content. TV gets some 16:9 HDTV content, lots of Xbox 360 (mainly Gears, Lost Odyssey and Marvel 3), the occasional 2.35 movie, and plenty of 4:3 (normally the kids watching Dora or something).

I have noticed some temporary image retention on a black screen (esp. Marvel vs Capcom 3 health bars) but nothing that doesn't clear up in a bit.

Man this is a frightening read for someone who is looking to spend 2k or more on one of these things. 100-200 hours break-ins sound silly enough without hearing about this junk happening afterwards.

Gaming and sports would be my primary use. I also frequently will leave a game or sports paused for long periods while I go do other things. For example it will take me 5-6 hours to get through 2-3 hours of sports or gaming because my attention will wander. A game like Elder Scrolls or Fallout could be played/paused for over 100 hours! I could spend well over a hundred hours in a month during playoff time watching/pausing CBC! This is zero problem right now with the cheapo LCD monitor that I have.

So now with a $1k+ plasma this would be considered 'abuse'. I'm supposed to revolve my habits around the tech by cutting the display when paused, playing patterns, mixing up content, blah blah blah. Laaaaaame. Abuse to ask a display to display things. Fark that I may have to settle for the performance an LED/LCD can offer and not worry about this nonsense.

yeah there are some horror stories in this thread, but the only thing I can think of is...Of the the thousands upon thousands of plasmas sold to customers, almost all of who are not technically savvy enough to even make it on to a forum like this to get advice, it's clearly not as a big of a problem as it seems...And unless sales people are educating buyers about break-ins I would think most other people do start regular use/gaming right out of the box..

The only IR I get is when I watch the YES channel. The logo shows up with the score card. But it's only noticeable close up when the screen is blank and it does fade with time.


Ian

Well, I am here to tell you burn-in exists in a big way, and I think Panasonic TV's are the number one offender. My brother-in-law has an ST30 that I recommended he buy. He did have it in vivid mode and used it to view many different things (movies, games, tv). However, he was also using the P90x workout dvd. Well, about a month ago he realized that the bottom logos were stuck on his screen while viewing other content. He has not watched the p90x video for a month now, and he has also been running the screen washer built in to the TV. After a month, the ghost image is still there and very noticeable. Now, I have an ST-30 also, and after hearing this, I decided to check my set for burn-in. I watch a lot of G4 stuff and noticed that their logo was faintly stuck in the corner of my screen. It has been a week now of viewing full screen content and running the screen washer and the logo is still there. The irony of the situation is that G4 is a tech channel. You would think they would know to put a transparent logo on their station. Anyway, these are 2011 plasmas and both seem to have what could only be described as burn-in. It's not just that these panasonic plasmas still have burn-in, it's that the manufacturers try to hide this weakness. If they would have warned me and my brother-in-law that burn-in could still happen, we would have taken the steps to avoid it. I am done with plasma and panasonic for all my future TV's.

Here we go again. No. 1 your brother used a brand new plasma in vivid mode with games, etc. Not very smart. That would have been a questionable move on a CRT Tube too.

No.2 how are you seeing this "burnt in images"? when watching regular HD content/movies or when switching inputs or your HDTV isn't getting a signal?

If you only see it with no input or no signal, that isn't Burn in or TIR. That Phosphorescence. It goes away after some time of watching full screen content.

The residual imprints on my tv and his appear when viewing other content on every other input, and it is most apparent during scenes are bright white.

Don't tell me something is IR when it has been on my tv for a week and my brother-in-law's for a month. IR is supposed to be temporary; burn in is not. Now that we have established that it IS burn-in, you need to understand my point. The average customer for TVs doesn't even know what burn-in is and could easily let this happen to his or her TV. The more knowledgeable customer, like myself, has read numerous reports on CNET and other websites and forums like this one that burn-in is almost impossible to get these days. So, that fact that I have burn-in does bother me, but Panasonic not giving a very clear warning that this could happen bothers me more.

Just reporting in. My vt 25 is definitely burned in, not IR. It's been since March since I posted, the burn in is still there on my set. I still have to baby sit the set to prevent further damage. What a pain and rip off. I won't buy a Panasonic plasma ever again unless the warranty would be amended to cover this.

What people don't realize is a Plasma true break in time is 1,000 hours. Period. After 100 you can start watching a little more but 1,000 is where it's at. After this the TV and phosphors are fully broken in and you really can't burn images anymore. I know you're all gonna say "its not like that anymore!" but guess what it is. I have the VT30, and really don't plan on playing games with static images if at all, and will not watch it the way it should be watched until at least hour 500 and will still be careful the next 500. It's really this simple. Plasma needs break in. It's older technology that was never perfected and if you want the best PQ you have to baby tithe first 1,000 hours.

Both sets could beonly guessingsuffering form MgO sputtering onto the phosphor and surrounding pixels(the over-all still graphic you can't get to fade away).

This is best treated with a 100% white screen for many hours, as it resets/normalizes the deposition of MgO to all pixels. In other words, it clears up the MgO. Do a search of MgO and xrox. Xrox has a lot of great info on the complexities of plasma tech.

As far as bad mouthing plasma for your possible burn in. Sorry guys, but if you truly have burn in on your plasma, which you certainly could. You are part of a small minority of plasma owners. The reason why you keep hearing from most people that burn in is uncommon, is because it is.

Do you know of a DVD or other method to try this white screen treatment? I will try it and have my brother-in-law try it and then report the results.

I agree, minimum 1000hrs. Especially since the Panasonics have such an aggressive panel volt increase. Just as the panel starts to stabilize, it gets hit with an increase in cell voltages. Hence the rising blacks.
I have the VT25 and noticed when the volts increased by the ease of IR.
Sorry OP but THX mode gave me IR worse than any other mode. I don't know why.
I would try the white image if I were you.
Then slides.
good luck.

To my understanding the volt increase was taken care of with your set with any April 2010 and after build, and the newer sets (ST,GT,VT30's) definitely do not have the rising blacks issue. Unfortunately the sets need to be babied for pretty much in my opinion the first 6-12 months. By then you'll definitely have 1,000 hours. That's why most casual viewers do not experience burn in. They probably watch a lot of full screen material and hardly any static imagery and by the time they hit 1,000 hours they're in the clear. This whole 100 hour rule is silly and no where near enough. People confuse the rule. The first 100-250 hours is the suggestion of break in before Pro calibration. When burn in break in got confused with this I really don't know.

Well to the guys that had problems with THX mode and burn-in / image-retention...All I know is on my VT30 in THX mode it disables "pixel orbiter". I dont know if it's like that on earlier panny models or not...I wish someone would lets us know either way.

I feel bad for people experiencing such problems. The plasma industry definately does NOT let consumers know the do's and dont's of how to treat a plasma. They mostly leave it up to us to figure things out...many times the hard way. All we have to rely on is rumors, common sense, and other peoples stories. It's sickening that people are made to feel stupid for doing normal everyday things on their displays.

Semp,

With all due respect where is your 1000 hour rule coming from? While it's true all your advice sounds prudent and responsible does it make it factual?

It's just hard to ascertain facts as far as breaking in a plasma and taking care of it. According to the manufacturers there is no break in period necessary...no more burn ins...you can play games...you can watch whatever...and blah blah blah...yeah right. I wish that were the case but it's not seeming that way.

Good Lord!! Now I've read everything!! LOL.

Well I have no first hand proof. The only proof I can go with is within these forums. Look at all the people who most have obviously had their TV's too bright or Contrast too high when the set was still very new and clearly this is what lead to this. Look even further and you'll find others who claim they broke the TV in for 100 hours and still have burn in. But Plasma makers also used to tell you to be careful for 1,000 hours and than stopped saying this, and acted like "Technology advanced" so much that break in wasn't necessary any more. Clearly this was done because of the continuos decline of interest in Plasma from consumers, who have heard about the "dreaded" burn in issues with plasma, and the ease of not having to worry about LCD. I'm sure the people in the know who have had Pioneers for years or even Panasonics and haven't experienced any burn in, I bet with the majority of these people their TV's were babied for well over 100 hours. Think about it grey scale can change after hour 250. Does this sound like a fully broke in Plasma to you? If colors can still change then burn in is still easy to attain. I'd say around hour 250 you can with peace of mind start using the set a little more the way it should be used, and by hour 1,000 I would think the screen is aged to the point where burn in is almost impossible. It has nothing to do with proof, simply has to do with educating one's self with the information and from the experience of others, and coming to an accurate assumption, of what needs to be done with your set. What's 250 hours at the most? It's about six and a half hours a day on average for about one month. I think I can wait that out for at least that amount of time for my three thousand dollar plus TV. If you don't want to its fine it's your set. The way people try to convince themselves that burn in is a "thing of the past" makes me laugh. It's clearly not. It's harder to get than it was 10 years ago, sure, but far from impossible. The proper burn in time for a screen to be properly aged in my opinion is still over 250 hours minimum and around 1,000 hours max, and even than, I'm sure with consistent abuse on the set burn in can still occur. So really what it breaks down to is plasma technology is not for the average consumer. And a great example of this is I got my grandmother a Panasonic Plasma 3 years ago set the TV's contrast, brightness, and sharpness low, and within weeks she had obvious 4x3 burn in. Now she also watches every Mets game and Yankees game on that TV, but the season started well after I bought her the set. The burn in of the 4x3 had already occurred and by the time the baseball season started she must have been very close to 500-1,000 hours considering her TV seems to be on at least 10 hours a day she probably hit that number fairly quick. Never once did a score board or anything else burn in to her screen. Why? Clearly the TV was still fresh when the set was bought and got the burn in and obviously the set's screen had aged enough by the time games started, well over 100 hours.

Semp,

Thank you for taking the time to ellaborate your thoughts on this. Your reasoning seems pretty flawless and I'm going to take your advice.

You're right that people ARE experiencing burn-in after 250 hours and that they are getting the "250 hour rule" mixed up because that rule is pretty much for calibrating purposes only. It makes sense that 1000 hours seems like a more reliable safety zone because people are not complaining nearly as much after that time threshold has been reached.

I agree also that I would't recommend playing video games on a plasma...even though I'm a "Call of Duty" fanatic I have a seperate 32 inch LED-LCD for that purpose. Yes it is possible to play games on plasmas safely but a lot of people are getting "burned" doing it. I'd rather be overly cautious and not even tempt fate in that area.

Yeah, I have to agree with semp. I've always said at least 150-200 hours. On my kuro, I didn't even touch games for the first 1-1.5k hours. Strictly movies after finishing the break-in slides. Some people are able to abuse their sets from day 1 without problem. Others get IR on day 31. You either want to do the 150-200hr breaking and then stress test to see if it's a stable one or else take it very easy the first 1-1.5k hours. I now game more frequently on my kuro to no ill effect, but it's ultimately a panel lottery.



Yeah, that's one of those snake-oil things for LCDs. It actually can work in some circumstances (but usually not for permanent/long-lasting IR), however plasma is not liquid crystal (lcd) - plasma is a gas and contains neither liquid nor crystals within its cells.

nope. I have an oct build and the rising is still a "feature". Pana anounced that after April the rise would be
spread out more.
Well, I still had all the rises at the times reported by pre April build owners. Even the head Panasonic dude stated that 2500hrs @ would be the last rise.
I own the damn thing and watched the hours and noted rising in a journal. The rising volts played hell with the TV. Finally well after the 2500hr mark, the TV has settled in and is very watchable. No
.0035 mll ;like new though.

As far as the VT30 line, I read a report that at 1500hrs it gets a slight increase in volts and a slight in crease in black.
All plasmas increase volts as they age. they have to.
I listed my observations and agree that it takes many hundreds of hours to settle into a IR resistant TV.

The burn-in is very pronounced and covers a large area on my brother-in-law's TV, but it is small and very faint on mine. He is probably in bad shape for any kind of fix. However, mine is so minimal; I feel there has to be a way to get rid of it. Like another poster said, maybe it isn't burn-in but something else. Does anyone have any ideas for a fix? I have a faint yellow outline of the G4 logo in the top right of the screen. I haven't watched the channel since I noticed it a week ago.

I'm having similar IR issues on my new VT30. I have the word Menu etched in the upper left corner. I guess I've been spending too much time tweaking the settings. I am at 70 hours. I have been able to reduce, but not eliminate (scrolling bar and bright full screen content). I've owned plasmas for years. My first plasma I was paranoid, had issues as described here and it always faded within a day to week. My last plasma (Panny V10), I never though about from day one, gamed all I wanted and never had IR for more than a day. So, I can say from experience that IR is worse on these newer plasma. I think alot of the argument that IR is a thing of the past is a thing of the past. Something has changed with the current ones (new Phosphors?). I think IR issues are back to the level at least 4+ generations ago (i.e. worse than my Panny PX60). Anyways I found this encouraging older post which may now be relevant again:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasm...retention.html

So don't give up.