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New Pioneer AVR's / Dlink DAP1522 compatibility problem

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
I have found that the new Pioneer AVR's... 1020K - 1120K and VSX-32's are not compatible with the Dlink DAP1522 wireless bridges. This is based on testing 3 VSX-32's and 2 DAP-1522's to find that anytime a 1522 is powered on and on the same subnet as a VSX-32, it will cause the AVR to disconnect from the internet within 25-35 minutes and it will not reconnect unless it is powered off and back on. This makes internet radio and the Iphone app useless if you have this Dlink wireless bridge. I don't know if other Dlink bridges also doing this so I am asking for feedback from other Pioneer AVR owners that have Dlink wireless bridges or access points, to chime in. At least 3 other users on this forum that were having disconnect issues with 1020K, 1120K Pioneers have confirmed that they also have the Dlink DAP-1522 bridge.

Please repond if you have any of the new Pioneer AVR's and a Dlink AP/Bridge and let us know if you also experience "connection errors" every ~30 minutes.
post #2 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68cam454 View Post

I have found that the new Pioneer AVR's... 1020K - 1120K and VSX-32's are not compatible with the Dlink DAP1522 wireless bridges. This is based on testing 3 VSX-32's and 2 DAP-1522's to find that anytime a 1522 is powered on and on the same subnet as a VSX-32, it will cause the AVR to disconnect from the internet within 25-35 minutes and it will not reconnect unless it is powered off and back on. This makes internet radio and the Iphone app useless if you have this Dlink wireless bridge. I don't know if other Dlink bridges also doing this so I am asking for feedback from other Pioneer AVR owners that have Dlink wireless bridges or access points, to chime in. At least 3 other users on this forum that were having disconnect issues with 1020K, 1120K Pioneers have confirmed that they also have the Dlink DAP-1522 bridge.

Please repond if you have any of the new Pioneer AVR's and a Dlink AP/Bridge and let us know if you also experience "connection errors" every ~30 minutes.

Yes I can confirm. I am on my second VSX-1120 from Amazon.com and it does the same thing. I have my DAP-1522 communicating with a DLink DGL-4500 wirelessly. Plugged into the DAP-1522 is a PS3 and Samsung HDTV which work just fine, stream Netflix etc...

I have swapped out the CAT5 cable multiple times.
I have run the AVR directly into the DGL4500 router thinking it might be the bridge.
I have placed the AVR in the DMZ on the router.
I have tried DHCP, and Static IP for the AVR.

The Pioneer just doesn't want to work with the DAP and/or the DGL. The AVR is still visible on the network when I log into the router, but can't access it. I also notice when I attempt to change the volume via the iPhone app, the light no longer will flicker for the port the AVR is plugged into.

In Chrome I get the following error: NETWORK_ERR: XMLHttpRequest Exception 101

Not sure what that is about. It seems like poor programming on Pioneers end.
post #3 of 27
There is an option in the Pioneer's setup to keep the network connection active during standby. Did you try turning this option on? I wonder if the unit is just going to sleep.
post #4 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by heyyall View Post

There is an option in the Pioneer's setup to keep the network connection active during standby. Did you try turning this option on? I wonder if the unit is just going to sleep.

Yup tried that too, just doesn't want to play nice on the network. Actually, doesn't want to play at all on the network.
post #5 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68cam454 View Post

I have found that the new Pioneer AVR's... 1020K - 1120K and VSX-32's are not compatible with the Dlink DAP1522 wireless bridges. This is based on testing 3 VSX-32's and 2 DAP-1522's to find that anytime a 1522 is powered on and on the same subnet as a VSX-32, it will cause the AVR to disconnect from the internet within 25-35 minutes and it will not reconnect unless it is powered off and back on. This makes internet radio and the Iphone app useless if you have this Dlink wireless bridge. I don't know if other Dlink bridges also doing this so I am asking for feedback from other Pioneer AVR owners that have Dlink wireless bridges or access points, to chime in. At least 3 other users on this forum that were having disconnect issues with 1020K, 1120K Pioneers have confirmed that they also have the Dlink DAP-1522 bridge.

Please repond if you have any of the new Pioneer AVR's and a Dlink AP/Bridge and let us know if you also experience "connection errors" every ~30 minutes.

Well I spoke to Pioneer support today. Whoa, I thought they would be a little better.

I explained to him the problem, and he first asked about firewalls and said that is an issue. I had to explain to him the router's firewall works on the WAN side, not on the LAN side, and would hear nothing if the firewall was blocking the AVR, not work for 5 mins and then shut off.

After explaining the issue with the DAP-1522 and it didn't matter if the AVR was plugged into the router or the bridge, there is a conflict between the DAP-1522 and the Pioneer.

I was told 'oh it doesn't work with a bridge', 'use a linksys', and of course 'it's the Dlink, contact them'

I told him 'it's not the Dlink, I have other devices plugged into the Dlink that work fine. It's on Pioneer's end.' He babbled on about how it's really not the Pioneer, I said 'Look, when you take your child to school, and the other 30 kids are getting A's and B's and your kid is failing, it's not the School's fault. It's you kid with the problem!"

He opened a trouble ticket tool my info, we will see what happens. I think like he said, the engineers will just 'blame the other guy' which seems to be the direction we go these days.

Anyone know if a different brand of wireless bridge?
post #6 of 27
Welcome to the Windows CE world..
My suggestion would be to ask Pioneer what wireless bridge they recommend....
Unfortunately in todays market certain products may not be compatible, plus Pioneer is not able to test compatibility with all brands. Note that we have found that the Cisco/Linksys seem to be the defacto standard. This situation is no different than having iPod compatibility, certain features work some iPod and other features are simply not compatible and/or functioning..

Just my $0.02...
post #7 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Welcome to the Windows CE world..
My suggestion would be to ask Pioneer what wireless bridge they recommend....
Unfortunately in todays market certain products may not be compatible, plus Pioneer is not able to test compatibility with all brands. Note that we have found that the Cisco/Linksys seem to be the defacto standard. This situation is no different than having iPod compatibility, certain features work some iPod and other features are simply not compatible and/or functioning..

Just my $0.02...

I would agree if it wasn't a simple web interface. My feeling is, it's poor implementation on their part. It's 2010, it's not a video card, it's not drivers, and it's pretty inexcusable honestly for the cost of the AVR. It's not doing anything difficult.

Aside from that, before I cloud finish explaining the issue all I got was 'oh it's the bridge, you can't do that.' then it was something about the firewall.

I would have been happy with, "Yeah we really didn't give this much thought sorry" but it was "oh it's the other guy". Yeah you wanna place any bets on what Dlink is going to say? Let me see a company who's business it is to make network equipment, or an electronics maker who decides "hey this might be cool!".
post #8 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK_HAL0 View Post

I would agree if it wasn't a simple web interface. My feeling is, it's poor implementation on their part. It's 2010, it's not a video card, it's not drivers, and it's pretty inexcusable honestly for the cost of the AVR. It's not doing anything difficult.

Aside from that, before I cloud finish explaining the issue all I got was 'oh it's the bridge, you can't do that.' then it was something about the firewall.

I would have been happy with, "Yeah we really didn't give this much thought sorry" but it was "oh it's the other guy". Yeah you wanna place any bets on what Dlink is going to say? Let me see a company who's business it is to make network equipment, or an electronics maker who decides "hey this might be cool!".

Since we are in the AV install biz we find certain incompatibilites between products all of the time...
In fact many times we act as beta testers for some of the major brands..
Also we spend considerable time making sure we don't spec those incompatible products out in a future job. Everytime we have to send the tech back out to an install there is an additional expense. Thats why we have a direct link and deal just with the AV brands that have knowledgible/technical support here in the USA. Many brands are out-sourcing their phone techs who know little or nothing and one may get better follow-up from a McDonald's drive through window..

Regarding Pioneer/Elite we don't install or use that brand anymore since they have discontinued their great Kuro HD screens, and have started outsourcing their AVRs...

Just my $0.02...
post #9 of 27
Thread Starter 
Below is the email string from the communication I have had with Pioneer (read it from the bottom up). I called a couple of times first, but both of the guys that I got on the phone were completely clueless about networking and stated that this problem had never been reported before....even though I knew it had because I had already previously reported it and knew that other people on this forum had also.

I tried going through Dlink first and they tried a number of things including having me try out some Beta firmware on the 1522 to no avail. They basically now say that it's not their problem since their bridge works with all other known devices and only the new Pioneers are having problems.

Hopefully Pioneer will actually spend the $100 to buy a Dlink bridge and get to the bottom of this problem. Sooner or later they will start to see a lot of needless returns/exchanges that will affect their profit margins......and then there will be incentive to fix it.

I have searched for other bridges but this Dlink is the only one with 4 gigabit ports. The only other option is to go with a single port Netgear and add a 5 port Gigabit switch to it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "customer support"
To:
Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2010 7:14:37 AM
Subject: RE:Re: Hook up and Operation

Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc.
I appreciate your understanding.
I requested our engineers try to research the DLink routers further. If they have additional questions or have an answer, I will forward their response.



Thank You,

------
Customer Service Representative

--Original Message--
From:
Date: 09/08/10
To: customer.support@pioneerservice.com
Subject: Re: Hook up and Operation



Yes I have talked to Dlink and raised the issue to their top level technical support. They remotely connected to my system and logged the communication across my network and say that there is no issue with their communication pro tocol. They say that the Pioneer locks up completely and that is why it won't communicate again unless it's power cycled. They say that their wireless bridge (DAP-1522) works just fine with hundreds of different devices and only the new Pioneer AVR's (all of them from 1020K to SC-37) , seem to have a conflict.



This Dlink media bridge is unique because it can communicate on the 2.4GHz or 5GHz frequency and has 4 gigabit ports built in. This allows you to put your PS3, BD player, AVR and TV online with one device. None of the other networking companies have this and I would expect that as people begin upgrading their media center with new AVR's and TV's that are internet capable, a lot of them will be buying this Dlink bridge which will render their internet radio and Iphone control completely useless. From what I have read on a few AV forums, numerous people have returned their new Pioneer AVR's for exchange thinking they had a faulty AVR only to discover the replacement had the same issue. As you can see, this will lead to a lot of needless returned product and a rather large cost to Pioneer's margin's as more and more people upgrade their media centers. Since so many people are already seeing this problem, I think Pioneer should at least buy one of these Dlink bridges and con
firm where the problem resides. If you find that the Dlink is violating a communcation protocol, you could force them to release a firware upgrade or threaten to go after them to recoup your profit losses due to their issue.



Just my 2 cents.......



BTW I run large Global Product Support group so I know what you guys are going through on the front lines with customers....especially during a new product launch.


----- Original Message -----
From: "customer support"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 8, 2010 5:10:30 PM
Subject: RE:Hook up and Operation


Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc.
Sorry to hear you are having problems with the router.
Have you contacted DLink?
We have a Linksys router here and it does not time out.
We use the iControl and the Internet radio for hours and not lose communication.



Thank You,

------
Customer Service Representative

--Original Message--
From:
Date: 09/07/10
To: customer.support@pioneerservice.com
Subject: Hook up and Operation


Inquiry Type:Hook up and Operation
lstPublishers:0001
lstTitles:A00001
Inquiry:My VSX-32 will not stay connected to the internet for more than about 30 minutes. There is an incompatability problem with a Dlink DAP-1522 media bridge that is also on my network. This is a known problem now (VSX-1020K, 1120K,VSX-32) and has been reported by numerous people on AVS forum. All other internet devices (PS3, XBOX, desktop, laptop, numerous IPhones, Android phone) work just fine so it appears that this is a Pioneer problem and not a Dlink problem. This problem renders the Iphone control and Internet radio completely useless. What is the schedule to get a firmware fix for this?
post #10 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68cam454 View Post

Please repond if you have any of the new Pioneer AVR's and a Dlink AP/Bridge and let us know if you also experience "connection errors" every ~30 minutes.

Joining the club.... connection drops within 25 - 28 mins consistently. Getting no love (or support) from Pioneer. Here's my post in the VSX-1020 discussion area: Same old bridge story.

I'm going to try to test a wired connection to the 1020 with DAP1522 still on the network. I've included an overview of my network in case that sparks any ideas.
LL
post #11 of 27
Please be sure to add me to the list. DLink-1522 is my wireless access point, but my VSX-1020 is directly connected via ethernet to the DLink-614+ router. It does not connect in any way you to the 1522. But sure enough, if the 1522 is powered on, the receiver loses network access after 15 - 45 minutes.
post #12 of 27
I think we all need to just keep hammering Pioneer Customer Service, I sent off another note referencing this thread. If they came up with a fix, and all I had to do was take the unit in to be "flashed" i'd be happy.
post #13 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by hartlenb View Post

Joining the club.... connection drops within 25 - 28 mins consistently. Getting no love (or support) from Pioneer. Here's my post in the VSX-1020 discussion area: Same old bridge story.

I'm going to try to test a wired connection to the 1020 with DAP1522 still on the network. I've included an overview of my network in case that sparks any ideas.

Let us know the results, it just seems like the Pioneer can't handle the DAP-1522 being on the network at all.
post #14 of 27
Pencil me in as another person with this problem :

Hardware involved :


VSX-1120-k
DIR-825 rev A firmware 1.13
DAP-1522 bridge mode, firmware 1.21 (receiver is hooked up to this bridge).
DAP-1522 AP mode, firmware 1.10
post #15 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by eekthekat View Post

Pencil me in as another person with this problem

eekthekat - plse contact Pioneer support and try to convince them that this is their problem.. not DLinks.
post #16 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by hartlenb View Post

eekthekat - plse contact Pioneer support and try to convince them that this is their problem.. not DLinks.

I tried that already about a month ago, called Pioneer within the first hour and a half of setting up the receiver and noticing the problem. The guy on the phone pretty much brushed me off and gave me a number to a local repair guy who had even less of a clue as to what I was talking about.

And yeah, much like everyone else my dlink centric home network works fine with every other piece of equipment that's connected to it, except for this pioneer receiver.

I'll give it a try again later in the day, hopefully someone over there with a clue will know what I'm talking about.
post #17 of 27
The problem isn't limited to wireless bridges. I have a PS3 and the Pioneer plugged into the same D-Link switch (wired 100M/b) Cat5e cable. I actually have a USRobotics router / firewall, whcih is hard wired through the house to a $10 el-cheapo switch, which then routes it's way to my basement to a D-link switch.

When the PS3 is turned off, internet radio works fine on the Pioneer 1120-K I have. When the PS3 is turned on, neither works (PS3 ping test fails, and internet radio times out).

Not that this is entirely related to your situation, and it's rather unique, but more support that the pioneer does not play nice with D-Link switches.
post #18 of 27
Thread Starter 
Pioneer engineering contacted me today asking for more detail on the DAP-1522 model. I guess there may be variations of this Dlink switch in the overseas market. This gives me some hope since they apparently are actually digging into this issue now in Japan.

I also followed up with Dlink and they say they are still looking into it and will contact me if they find anything new but I have much less confidence that they will actually do anything for us.
post #19 of 27
In case anyone is counting, I'll add my name as someone with the same problem. 1020 and 1522 as AP.

Tom
post #20 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68cam454 View Post

Pioneer engineering contacted me today asking for more detail on the DAP-1522 model. I guess there may be variations of this Dlink switch in the overseas market. This gives me some hope since they apparently are actually digging into this issue now in Japan.

I also followed up with Dlink and they say they are still looking into it and will contact me if they find anything new but I have much less confidence that they will actually do anything for us.

Well I got tired of waiting around, and since there has been no firmware update to my D-Link DGL-4500 in over a year I started looking around for some new hardware. I decided to go with two Buffalo Nfiniti WZR-HP-g300 NH wireless routers. I could get two for the price of a single Netgear Wireless N router.

The short story is, they work great. If you are looking for a relatively low-cost fix for this issue, this is it. The routers will also run DD-WRT however, I was unable to get them to work in Client Bridge mode using DD-WRT.

I flashed the "user friendly" version of the firmware from Buffalo's site and went with that. It uses WDS to connect the routers. The two routers communicate at 300Mbps but some wireless clients will only connect at 150Mbps because of the 2.4Ghz radio. For example, the MacBook wants the 5.4Ghz for a 300Mbps connection.

Anyways, it's fast enough for Wireless clients, and the connection between the two routers is 300 which is what I was mostly concerned about. I can stream Netflix just fine, the PS3 streams HD movies from the office computer just fine, and the Pioneer has no problems at all either.

As a side note, what is nice about these routers that I have learned is that because they use WDS, you can even connect to the 'bridge' router if you like or the 'Master' router thus expanding your wireless coverage. They also have a higher power radio in them than other routers. You can read more about it on the Buffalo website, or Google 'wireless WDS' for more info.
post #21 of 27
I also have this issue with the vsk-1325-k model and the drink bridge. What options are there for wireless bridges similar ?
post #22 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarery View Post

I also have this issue with the vsk-1325-k model and the drink bridge. What options are there for wireless bridges similar ?

See my post above about the Buffalo Router. Netgear also makes a wireless bridge that should work.
post #23 of 27
Hi Guys,

New to the forum and I must say I was pleased to discover this thread. Sorry for the bump - I've searched and I don't see anything more recent.

I googled DAP-1522 and pioneer 1120-k and this was the first thing that came up. Before I thought of looking for a solution I spent all of last weekend going absolutely crazy trying to figure out what on earth was wrong with my network bridge / pioneer combo. It's a real shame given the limited choice of network bridges under $100 that the pioneer receivers don't work with the most popular choice.

Anyway, I have a couple of questions for the forum:

Anyone know if Pioneer have put out a firmware update which corrects this incompatibility? I see that the original posts are a few months old now so perhaps I should drag my receiver to within cable length of the router and plug it in in the hope of an update. I figure that's wishful thinking but you never know... I'm running the latest firmware (v1.31) on the DAP-1522 and that changes nothing.

Otherwise, the only other network bridge that looks the part within the same price range is the Trendnet TEW 640MB. I've read a lot of good things about it. However, before I splash out another $70 on a bridge, I was wondering if anyone here is using it in combination with a Pioneer receiver? Would be a shame to buy a second useless bridge...

Thanks for your help!
post #24 of 27
I have been using the Buffalo WXR-HP-G300NH. I got two of them for around $70/ea on Amazon.

As for an Firmware upgrade, I seriously doubt it. It was just a crappy implementation on Pioneer's part.

I notice the new 1021's look to have some refined features, but honestly wouldn't trust them at this point. Even the iPhone/iTouch app has been flaky.

Other than this issue, the AVR has been great, no complaints. Probably just better off getting the Bluetooth adapter for it, and playing Pandora or something similar that way. I can get all of the same Internet radio stations via SHOUTcast and other apps.
post #25 of 27
Thanks for the feedback. In the end I went for the Trendnet TEW-640MB. It's a dedicated wireless bridge rather than a full on router like the Buffalo. Just wanted to keep the setup as simple as possible. In any event, the good news is that it works. Can't say I'm impressed with the construction of the trendnet. However, unlike the Dlink, it works with the Pioneer 1120-k so I'm a happy camper on that front.
post #26 of 27
Thread Starter 
Pioneer has finally released a firmware update to fix this problem. I got my VSX-32 updated today and it works perfectly now.....finally.
post #27 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68cam454 View Post

Pioneer has finally released a firmware update to fix this problem. I got my VSX-32 updated today and it works perfectly now.....finally.

Where did you get the update?? Any indication there is one for the 1020K?
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