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Input Lag killing me

post #1 of 20
8/31/10 at 2:46pm
Thread Starter 
A month ago, I went to BB and purchased an LCD Samsung. The picture looked great but the input lag was really bad. I never knew what input lag was but apparently I'm really sensitive to it. I always had a CRT and didn't realize the difference between that and a flat panel.

I returned the Samsung for a Panasonic S2. The picture sucked compared to the Samsung but the input lag was better, but still not good enough.

I returned the Panasonic for a Sony Aqous LED. Picture looked good. Still, the input lag was there.

I returned the Sony for a 50in Panasonic G20. Now BB hates me. The BB guy told me his G10 worked great so I figured the G20 would be fine. Wrong! However, the picture really looks fantastic and if gaming isn't your thing, the G20 is amazing and highly recommended.

What now? This is driving me nuts. Does anyone know if the Panasonic G10 has good picture and LOW (really low) input lag. I have a chance to buy one. Believe me, if there's lag, I feel it. If not, what's the best HDTV today that's really good for gaming. I'm just tired of searching.

Btw, the reason I'm so sensitive to it is because I'm an editor and I'm very aware of timing (down to the frame)...

Thoughts?
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post #2 of 20
8/31/10 at 3:28pm
What are the specs of your computer?
What resolution are you sending over what interface to the TV?
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post #3 of 20
8/31/10 at 3:41pm
Thread Starter 
This is actually through my xbox 360. I'm using an hdmi cable.
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post #4 of 20
8/31/10 at 3:51pm
Thread Starter 
And I have made sure it outputs 1080p to a tv that is set at 1080p.
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post #5 of 20
8/31/10 at 6:34pm
Since you've tried LCD & Plasma, I'd take a look at DLP or Laser.

Try asking in the specific display forums.
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post #6 of 20
8/31/10 at 7:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsharpe30 View Post

A month ago, I went to BB and purchased an LCD Samsung. The picture looked great but the input lag was really bad. I never knew what input lag was but apparently I'm really sensitive to it. I always had a CRT and didn't realize the difference between that and a flat panel.

I returned the Samsung for a Panasonic S2. The picture sucked compared to the Samsung but the input lag was better, but still not good enough.

I returned the Panasonic for a Sony Aqous LED. Picture looked good. Still, the input lag was there.

I returned the Sony for a 50in Panasonic G20. Now BB hates me. The BB guy told me his G10 worked great so I figured the G20 would be fine. Wrong! However, the picture really looks fantastic and if gaming isn't your thing, the G20 is amazing and highly recommended.

What now? This is driving me nuts. Does anyone know if the Panasonic G10 has good picture and LOW (really low) input lag. I have a chance to buy one. Believe me, if there's lag, I feel it. If not, what's the best HDTV today that's really good for gaming. I'm just tired of searching.

Btw, the reason I'm so sensitive to it is because I'm an editor and I'm very aware of timing (down to the frame)...

Thoughts?

Hold on. Are you actually gaming? Or are you concerned with timing to audio?

Because syncing audio with audio delay is not a problem at all.

Gaming lag is a different problem. There are some displays that have a game mode which bypass scaling with certain input resolutions. All video scaling operations pretty much will delay the video some degree, so you have to match the display resolution exactly and have the ability on the display to disable VP operations. You should do some searches on that because there have been quite a few discussions on this in the past.

multi-sync CRT displays, of course, have zero video processing, and will have zero lag beyond the literal physical delay of the circuit and the time it takes for the phosphors to light up which is at a level probably far below your network latency.
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post #7 of 20
8/31/10 at 9:41pm
Thread Starter 
No, I'm gaming. Audio timing is fine. I will look into dlp. Thanks.
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post #8 of 20
8/31/10 at 10:46pm
What's the minimum size display would you be willing to live with?
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post #9 of 20
9/1/10 at 6:40am
Is the game actually capable of runnng at 60fps? I understand that many games actually run at less then 30fps. My sons's flight simulator has trouble running at more then 20fps when more content detail options are enabled.
Does the amount of lag appear to depend on the amount of action occuring in the game?
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post #10 of 20
9/1/10 at 7:38am
Thread Starter 
42 - 46 inches is ok. Prefer 50. The lag has nothing to do with the game console performance, ps. It's strictly the processing of the TV.
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post #11 of 20
9/1/10 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsharpe30 View Post

I returned the Panasonic for a Sony Aqous LED. Picture looked good. Still, the input lag was there.

No such TV. So, it was either a Sony Bravia or a Sharp Aquos; do you remember which one it was?
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post #12 of 20
9/1/10 at 5:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

No such TV. So, it was either a Sony Bravia or a Sharp Aquos; do you remember which one it was?

woops...I got mixed up. It was the Sharp Aquos.
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post #13 of 20
9/1/10 at 9:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsharpe30 View Post

No, I'm gaming. Audio timing is fine. I will look into dlp. Thanks.

DLP wouldn't have any inherent differences compared to LCD, LCOS, etc.

What determines display lag is primarily the video processing that is going on in the display, completely irrespective of the display type.

Even CRTs can have lots of display lag if they have video processing going on.

By the way, there have been very long threads in the projector forums for measuring and quantifying the exact display lag of many displays, again I suggest some searching because there is a wealth of information about this topic out there for you to find, for instance:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1131464
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post #14 of 20
9/2/10 at 12:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles View Post

DLP wouldn't have any inherent differences compared to LCD, LCOS, etc.

All things being equal, sure it would.
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post #15 of 20
9/3/10 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

All things being equal, sure it would.

In what way?

Nearly all current LCD, LCOS and DLP panels/chips can respond to input signals with speeds that pretty much exceed our ability to sense them.
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post #16 of 20
9/4/10 at 6:42am
I disagree
Read through the following thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1131464
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post #17 of 20
9/4/10 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

I disagree
Read through the following thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1131464

What are you disagreeing with?

I just linked to that thread two posts ago, btw.
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post #18 of 20
9/4/10 at 5:24pm
I disagree wirth your statement that nearly all of todays TVs have no lag since they can respond faster then we can respond to them sogamers shold not be concerned with lag.
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post #19 of 20
9/4/10 at 7:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

I disagree wirth your statement that nearly all of todays TVs have no lag since they can respond faster then we can respond to them sogamers shold not be concerned with lag.

That's not what I said.

Clearly, most every display in normal modes has lag. Most all of this lag is due to video processing, not to panel or chip response times, which is what I was responding to in that specific post, hence the "panels/chips" that I mentioned, not the entire display which involves the VP which is where most all the lag comes from (in current displays).

Some older LCDs did have rather slow response times, and the LCD panel itself would add to the lag problem. Most LCD panels or LCD chips these days are quite fast. LCOS is very fast. DLP is also extremely fast, but is more complicated because colors beyond RGB or RGBCMYWB are all integrated over time, so you're not getting the whole color right out of the gate. Point is: lag can be a problem if you are a gamer, but the lag is not due to the technology of the TV and has pretty much everything to do with the video processing in the TV. Hence game modes which try to bypass as much of that as possible.
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post #20 of 20
9/5/10 at 7:04am
I misunderstood you comment and I completly agree with your analysis in your latest post.
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