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JVC DLA-HD250 new entry level DILA - Page 8

post #211 of 1856
On the JVC website it has the HD250 listed as having the 120Hz refresh rate. With the reviews of the users on this forum it seems to be that the projector does posses this feature as most are discussing the smoothness of the motion. If I decide this way over the 550 or RS40 I can upgrade my front speakers sooner rather than later. I am not a big fan of 3d so other than the increased contrast I don't see much difference. Any opinions?
post #212 of 1856
Mine comes in Wednesday! Jason at AVS got it going for me.

First projector ever. Combining it with the SeymoureAV XD Screen (room is narrow and need speakers behind the screen to maximize screen size). CAN'T WAIT!
post #213 of 1856
Congrats, pgJenson!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ewelsh01 View Post

I am not a big fan of 3d so other than the increased contrast I don't see much difference. Any opinions?

fwiw, I'm no fan of 3D in the home, either; cannot stand it to be honest.

And once past the scrutiny phase the difference between 250 and 550 are not going to be earth shattering. I would opt for the savings toward speakers.
post #214 of 1856
Uh, I don't see any evidence of the 120Hz ( or Clear Motion Drive ) on the RS10/HD350/HD250. Clear Motion Drive does not appear in the manuals for the projector either. So I suspect some people confused some of the press release model numbers. The lower end stuff is not even mentioned in some of the releases, so it's easy to make that mistake.

I don't know why JVC would list the 120Hz on the website though. If it is in the projector, it would show in the "Advanced" menu as "Clear Motion Drive". We can have a user here just check that now. I would bet you it just ain't there. Nor would I expect it to be there.
post #215 of 1856
Quote:
Originally Posted by ewelsh01 View Post

On the JVC website it has the HD250 listed as having the 120Hz refresh rate. With the reviews of the users on this forum it seems to be that the projector does posses this feature as most are discussing the smoothness of the motion. If I decide this way over the 550 or RS40 I can upgrade my front speakers sooner rather than later. I am not a big fan of 3d so other than the increased contrast I don't see much difference. Any opinions?

There are quite a few differences between the 250 and 40(higher contrast, more lumens, 3rd gen optical engine, improved pannels, FI-2nd gen at that, 3d, Rec 709 setting, 16 step lens aperture vs 3 on the 250/550, etc..........) which more than justify the price difference considering the preorder 40 price, but the only real difference between the 250 and 550 from my reading would be FI. The 550 has it, the 250 does not.
post #216 of 1856
Just to point out that you can gain access to the 16 step iris positions in the HD250: I have my HD350 set to 16, 13 and 8, rather than the factory default of 16, 8 and 0. This gives me smaller steps between iris settings and allows me to match my 16:9 brightness and 2.35:1 lensed brightness for example.

You can change each aperture 'preset' (1 to 3) by entering the service menu. You can only change the iris for the 'preset' you are using at the time however, so it means dipping in and out of the service menu a few times. There is a definate 'knack' to getting into the SM, you have to be very fast, though with practice I can get in there first time mostly.

Up, down, right, left, enter.

Do not fiddle with anything else in there (particularly the lens position as this 'tells' the projector that the lens is in it's central position to protect the drive from damage at the extremes of operation). I'm not responsible for anyone's SM fiddling.
post #217 of 1856
Quote:
Originally Posted by blindbartimaeus View Post

With panning and no motion blur it really indicates it may have 120hz. Would be really nice to know for sure.

If it has the 120hz would that make this projector exceptional for video games, reduced lag/blur?
post #218 of 1856
Can any member tell to what maximum screen size one can achieve with this projector in a bat cave with decent brightness (post calibration)?
post #219 of 1856
Here is the brochure for the HD250 and it shows the screen sizes/throw distances.

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/c...&feature_id=12
post #220 of 1856
User Manuals

Instruction Book Download
We have the following book(s) for the model DLA-HD250-BU:

Instructions.
23.4 MB (24,593,111 bytes).
PDF File.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Click the link to view it.
Right click the link and select Save Target As... or Save Link As... to save it to your file system.
View books in pdf format with Adobe Acrobat Reader.

http://books.jvc.com/booklist.asp?Model=DLA-HD250

Hope this helps.

Mike
post #221 of 1856
What is that connection (looks like a head phone jack) to the left of the rs232 port? The user manual dosent seem to say.


Quote:
Originally Posted by D.Theater View Post

User Manuals

Instruction Book Download
We have the following book(s) for the model DLA-HD250-BU:

Instructions.
23.4 MB (24,593,111 bytes).
PDF File.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Click the link to view it.
Right click the link and select Save Target As... or Save Link As... to save it to your file system.
View books in pdf format with Adobe Acrobat Reader.

http://books.jvc.com/booklist.asp?Model=DLA-HD250

Hope this helps.

Mike
post #222 of 1856
MegaToad,

See pg. 18 in User Manual.

Mike
post #223 of 1856
I looked again at page 18. It shows what each one is but the one to the right of the rs232 port?

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.Theater View Post

MegaToad,

See pg. 18 in User Manual.

Mike
post #224 of 1856
MegaToad,

It is a special service port: One mini-USB-like plug in combination with a platinum white female and eight dip switches



http://cine4home.de/tests/projektore...0/IMG_3390.jpg

Mike
post #225 of 1856
Gary B has noted that the HD250 is the RS10.

I find that very believable, but how much different is the RS10 from the RS15 mechanically?

If they restarted the line for the RS10, that seems to make less sense than continuing the RS15 line and taking out software.

From a business standpoint, the RS15 to HD250 transition makes more sense.

For JVC insiders, it still is easy to look at the transition form RS10 to HD250 as a restarting the line of the RS10 and pumping out the relabeled HD250, but in actuality the RS10, RS15 and HD250 lines are likely the same assembly line. Gary, does this make sense, or, is it physically the same assembly line as the RS10, and the RS15 had a different assembly line?

My reason for bringing this up is that the chips may work at 120hz as in the RS15 but not have the software to enable CMD. The implementation of CMD on the RS15 was not considered ideal last year, as far as I read.

Is this plausible?
post #226 of 1856
Quote:
Originally Posted by chasiliff View Post

My reason for bringing this up is that the chips may work at 120hz as in the RS15 but not have the software to enable CMD. The implementation of CMD on the RS15 was not considered ideal last year, as far as I read.

Is this plausible?

That is my thought as well, but confirmation would be great.
post #227 of 1856
Quote:
Originally Posted by chasiliff View Post

From a business standpoint, the RS15 to HD250 transition makes more sense.

That will be next year, the HD315

Speaking from a 'business standpoint' that is
post #228 of 1856
I think that the answer to the refresh rate it that it most likely only does 96hz. I base that assumption on research I've been doing and I found this article http://www.hometheatermag.com/frontp...or/index1.html.

Here is the important part "When 120Hz Clear Motion Drive is off, the JVC’s processor stage doubles a 1080p/24 source to 48 frames per second. Then it flashes this 48-fps result on the screen twice, for an effective on-screen refresh rate of 96 Hz. If you turn on 120Hz Clear Motion Drive, it will interpolate rather than just repeat the required added frames to reach the effective refresh rate of 120 Hz.

That 96hz refresh rate has me concerned about motion blur and jutter.
post #229 of 1856
Ahard, are you bothered by judder in a movie theater (35mm film projection)? I notice it sometimes, especially when the camera pans rapidly.

Apparently 35mm film projection uses either a 48hz double flash or 72hz triple flash scheme:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_projector#Shutter
post #230 of 1856
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgathright View Post

Here is the brochure for the HD250 and it shows the screen sizes/throw distances.

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/c...&feature_id=12

Thanks pal......even Panny4k showed in their manual that it can project upto 300" diagonal - but the brightness issue not satisfactory beyond 120" screen as per reports from many reviews/threads etc. Though I have still not got an opportunity to see the same in action, I need to depend on others comments for making a buying decision. Same goes here with the new model JVC HD250.
Now in this regard, I repeat my question, will JVC be bright enough for >130" diagonal screen sizes?
post #231 of 1856
Thread Starter 
If you check out the brightness ratings in the reviews I linked to a number of posts up, you'll see that the lumens rating under the same conditions post calibration is about 400 +for LCD and about 700+ for the RS10.

I don't have measuring equipment but have to say that the HD250 is noticeably brighter than my new bulb AE3000.

As for whether it can do 130", there are tonnes of other factors such as the amount of light control in the room, the gain on your screen etc.
post #232 of 1856
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahard View Post

I think that the answer to the refresh rate it that it most likely only does 96hz. I base that assumption on research I've been doing and I found this article http://www.hometheatermag.com/frontp...or/index1.html.

Here is the important part "When 120Hz Clear Motion Drive is off, the JVC's processor stage doubles a 1080p/24 source to 48 frames per second. Then it flashes this 48-fps result on the screen twice, for an effective on-screen refresh rate of 96 Hz. If you turn on 120Hz Clear Motion Drive, it will interpolate rather than just repeat the required added frames to reach the effective refresh rate of 120 Hz.

That 96hz refresh rate has me concerned about motion blur and jutter.

Just found out from Jason that it's 60hz.
post #233 of 1856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cham313 View Post

Ahard, are you bothered by judder in a movie theater (35mm film projection)? I notice it sometimes, especially when the camera pans rapidly.

Apparently 35mm film projection uses either a 48hz double flash or 72hz triple flash scheme:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_projector#Shutter

Not really.
post #234 of 1856
Quote:
Originally Posted by eummagic View Post

Now in this regard, I repeat my question, will JVC be bright enough for >130" diagonal screen sizes?

It depends on a number of factors like Woof said. Art over at Projector Reviews is using a RS20 or 25 on a screen about the size you're looking at. Just use the calculator over at projector central to get a feel for how many foot lamberts you'll get.

I did a quickie over at projector central using 130in screen and the RS10. You want at least 20fl to start with as to compensate for the loss of light output as the bulb ages. To get 20fl with the screen size you're looking at you need a screen that has at a 1.4 gain or higher. If you start with that and play around with the calculator you'll be able to see what will work best for your environment.

Again, many factors will come into so use this as a starting point.
post #235 of 1856
Hmm I'll be watching this thread as I've started to get the upgrade bug again and we're moving out next summer so I've talked the wife into letting me purchase a new projector
post #236 of 1856
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahard View Post

Just found out from Jason that it's 60hz.

I find it interesting that JVC's (lcos in general I guess), can have more of a motion blur issue than DLP's which also have a refresh rate of 60hz (unless you make your player output 24p, which actually gets double to a 48hz screen refresh rate).

I guess it comes down to the processor sending a 60hz signal to the display chips (lcos, dlp, lcd), and the fastest display chip (still dlp these days), ends up having the least amount of blur issues. But if this is true, why would sending a 120hz signal to the lcos display chip improve on motion blur, if the display chip is the bottle neck?
post #237 of 1856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

If you check out the brightness ratings in the reviews I linked to a number of posts up, you'll see that the lumens rating under the same conditions post calibration is about 400 +for LCD and about 700+ for the RS10.

I don't have measuring equipment but have to say that the HD250 is noticeably brighter than my new bulb AE3000.

As for whether it can do 130", there are tonnes of other factors such as the amount of light control in the room, the gain on your screen etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ahard View Post

It depends on a number of factors like Woof said. Art over at Projector Reviews is using a RS20 or 25 on a screen about the size you're looking at. Just use the calculator over at projector central to get a feel for how many foot lamberts you'll get.

I did a quickie over at projector central using 130in screen and the RS10. You want at least 20fl to start with as to compensate for the loss of light output as the bulb ages. To get 20fl with the screen size you're looking at you need a screen that has at a 1.4 gain or higher. If you start with that and play around with the calculator you'll be able to see what will work best for your environment.

Again, many factors will come into so use this as a starting point.

Sorry If I had'nt mentioned about the room. It is 14.6ft (w) x 21.6ft (l) x 10ft(h) dedicated bat cave and planning an AT Seymour screen with CAVX MK3 anamorphic lens.

This is a noobie question, sorry for asking this....

Iam suprised why in the world then a projector manufacture has to mention that it can project an image from 60" to 200" (as for the case of JVC HD550 and vary for other brands). Does it not mean that the projector is capable of producing sufficient brightness for that 200" big screen keeping in mind that the projector is running in full dynamic mode using every lumens available. As everyone says, JVC shows conservative numbers with respect to lumens is considered. But, review shows that these are bright enough even after post calibration when compared with other brands. Should the manufacture not say, that the projector image can be maximum upto to 100" or 120" with satisfactory brightness under dynamic mode.

Can any member give more insight on this pls...
post #238 of 1856
Quote:
Originally Posted by eummagic View Post

Sorry If I had'nt mentioned about the room. It is 14.6ft (w) x 21.6ft (l) x 10ft(h) dedicated bat cave and planning an AT Seymour screen with CAVX MK3 anamorphic lens.

This is a noobie question, sorry for asking this....

But, review shows that these are bright enough even after post calibration when compared with other brands. Should the manufacture not say, that the projector image can be maximum upto to 100" or 120" with satisfactory brightness under dynamic mode.

Can any member give more insight on this pls...

Not really bc your environment won't be the same as the woman in New Mexico. Again, brightness is dependent upon several factors, some of which have nothing to do with the throw ratio of the projector.
post #239 of 1856
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahard View Post

Just found out from Jason that it's 60hz.


Hmmm, that means that when playing 24p movies it must have some cadence issues.

That is, if it were 120hz it could flash each frame 5 times (1/24 / 5 = 1/120), but at 60hz it has to flash each frame 2.5 times, so it has to do 3 frames, 2 frames. Well, I guess that's not so bad, I don't think the human eye is too sensitive to that on top of repeat frame judder.
post #240 of 1856
you guys have me scared about this projector now

since i only get 5 hours on the bulb for the point of no return... what should i test?

play a game and make sure no ghosting? put on planet earth or something and wait for some horizontal scrolling?
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