JVC DLA-HD250 new entry level DILA - Page 18

Is the 1300 ANSI lumen rating of the RS40 vs the 1000 ANSI lumen rating of the HD250 accurate for 2D use? I was surprised when I ran the calculator from Projector Central that shows the foot lumens of the HD250 exceeded the Mits HC6800 foot lumens even though the HC6800 had a high ANSI rating (1500-HC6800 vs 1000-HD250). I am trying to find a way to figure out the foot lumens for my 16' to a 126" (1.4 Carada) screen for the RS40 using Projector Central.

Daniel: Once I get moved in about 2 weeks I will give you another call concerning the cost of the RS40. What else is different between these two besides the obvious 3D (which I do not care about), increased contrast and increased brightness?

rgathright -- With the comments in the "Over $3K" JVC thread, it looks like the 2D output will be around 1100 lumens @ D65 for the RS40-60. The biggest difference will be the higher CR and sharper image due to the other improvements not present in the HD250. This is what makes the pre-order price of the RS40 so enticing.

The HD250 is a very good PJ and is at (if not extremely close to) the top of it's (Under $3K) competition. It's just in a different price (& performance) class than the RS40.

On the other hand the HD250 has hit the streets (the first shipment anyway), whereas the RS40, and its siblings, still haven't reached production status yet (and likely won't for another month).

Heck I'm real happy with the HD250. It was at the top of my budget, and overall a great buy. For me it was like male version of buying a wedding dress. It just fit

I got it mounted on the ceiling and dialed in a bit. I had my neices over and it was complete chaos(5yr and 2 yr old) until I Qued up "How to train your dragon" everyone was quiet. Brightness was way better than I thought too. I'm shooting 15ft+ on a 100" 1.0 gain screen and its perfect. The off axis viewing is good too. Pictures will follow in a day or so

Your setup is a few feet longer than mine, but I too plan to have a theatre setup with a 100" screen, and it will be a low 0.8 to 1.2 gain screen to start with. My throw distance will be closer to 12.5 feet.

So how do you find the sharpness? How is the colour? Does it look somewhat natural or do you notice some over-saturation? I don't think there are many other Canuck's sporting the HD250. I think you're probably one of the first.

Still debating over this or the Mitsubishi HC7000. Yes, I know, the Mits 7000 is two years old and won't match the black level and contrast, but it has great sharpness and the ability to tame it's colours without an outboard CMS. I am still waiting for somebody local to view an HD250 or an RS-10/HD350. If I don't find anybody, perhaps I will make the trip to your place and bring my VP50 and H1000 lens...

Does the 250 require an outboard CMS? How does it perform without one?

-Sean

Sharpness is like the first thing I was trying to judge. Text is clear but there is a "film like" quality to the picture. It looks natural almost organic. It is not blurry or overally soft at all but it is a tricky thing to judge.

The colour is a bit vibrant right now. Grass doesn't look neon but I find red does "pop" a bit more than the other colours(red car in commercial). I have not really adjusted the colour at all. Overall though, I think its still pleasing.

The outstanding thing to note for me was the depth of the image. I think for the first time I was looking in the background more than the main characters of Avatar and how deep the blacks were. I mean the black bars top and bottom were not that noticable on "how to train your dragon" not as black as the screen's border but really good. This is my first projector though so I'm pretty easy to please lol

Just ordered 250 model, selling PT-4000, wondering how big of an up grate will be !!!

ok this is my first screenshot attempt



hope you can see detail in rings around the planet. It really is trial and error for me. using a canon rebel eos slr if anyone has some pointers

Today I ordered a carada 138" bw screen now the wait begins!

I was worried about that also, but it turns out not to be a problem... Since there is a gamma curve page that has not only white, and a multiplier, but there are multi-point gamma settings for red, green, and blue. Then you have color and tint. So using just those, I was able to get a very natural skin tone, and tone down the red.

Not too sure how great DVD and SD is compared to Blu-Ray, but the Blu-Ray handling is outstanding. Will try a different DVD player, and try the component inputs in the next couple of days to give plain old DVD a better test.

so what is the price of this projector? PM me if you would please....thinking of this or a Epson model. Thanks

Just bought the HD250 and got a question.

When there is no image (pressing the hide button for example), I can see the "black image" going over my actual frame, but when the image is there, it perfectly fit the screen/frame.

I did play with the zoom, but if I un-zoom enough to have the "black image" in the frame, now the actual image is too small for the frame.

Any idea?

Thanks.

Pitou!

Contact either Daniel or Jason of AVS for the best price.

Have you got the mask function set to 2.5% or 5% as this might cause this effect. If not then it might just be overspill...it's not really an issue if it can't be seen in normal viewing. However, I'd guess it is there all the time, just that your eyes can't see it when there is an image on the screen. I'd guess that you might see it in very dark scenes perhaps, or maybe you just need to reduce the brightness control a click to see if it goes black enough to disappear (check the HDMI setting is not in 'Auto' as it has a habit of changing from normal to enhanced by itself, causing the image to suddenly look washed out).

The mask function is "off", so I guess you're right about the overspill. As you mention, it's probably there all the time but I don't see it in normal viewing, and again you're right, I see it only in very very dark scenes.

I'll play with the settings you suggested and look at the HDMI value for sure.

Also, I just got it (yesterday actually), so I didn't have time to calibrate it. I guess it's time to fire up my i1pro!

Thanks very much for the great suggestions Kelvin!

Pitou!

That sounds promising. Being able to get skin tones right is usually a good measuring stick for how the colour looks overall. Not all projectors need a full CMS to improve their colour performance. Some look close enough from the factory, and others can be tweaked with whatever adjustments they have. The Mitsubishi HC7000 has primary and secondary colour points that are not standard, and yet by working with the greyscale, most reviewers said they were able to make the colour look natural enough. I wonder if their are greyscale adjustments one can make on the JVC in addition to the gamma adjustments you are talking about. Either way, I hope the HD250 can be tamed.

Hopefully more owners can give us feedback about this aspect of the projector. Sharpness and Colour are my most important questions with regards to this projector.

cpc -- It doesn't look like sharpness will be a problem (from what has been posted in this thread). Also, it's beginning to look like the HD250 has controls similar to the HC7000, that we talked about (in our PMs).

If he is agreeable, it sounds like a visit to sSolar would be a good plan for you.

sSolar -- If you would send me a PM with your camera's settings and setup, I might be able to help you out. I have an older Canon S3 IS (not as good as your Rebel) and have played around with screen shots a little. The biggest tip is to use a Low ISO setting, around 80 or 100, and zoom to around the equivalent of a 50mm lens on a 35mm camera. Using a tripod and a slow shutter speed is also highly recommended. You want to compose the shot to look as close as possible to what it actually does to your eyes.

You also should look at the 2 "Screenshots" threads: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=935620 and http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=965178. Some of the guys have posted tips (especially near the last pages of the first one -- in the "Over $3K PJ Forum).

PS -- Nice picture, BTW. I'm guessing that the white Enterprise looks reddish due to it's proximity to a red (Saturn like) planet. The ring detail is pretty good, but not quite as good as Saturn's real rings.

Yep, it doesn't seem like sharpness is a 'problem'. I guess I will just have to decide if it's sharp enough for me. If it's sharper than the Epson 1080UB Pro I had, or the Sony HW10 I saw, that may be enough. My aiming for the Mits HC7000 was a way of trying to garantee sharpness.


If that is the case, I wonder if that means that the HD250 is different than the RS-10 / HD350. I don't recall those projectors being overly tame-able colour wise. I don't know the precise workings of the CMS for the HC7000 though, so I can't compare. I just know that reviewers were able to tame the colour of the HC7000 by calibrating the greyscale.

Although I commented that the Mits HC7000 was a safer bet, for reasons of sharpness and others specifics, I am really tempted by the HD250. The black level and contrast will be a real jump from my previous projector, and the sealed light path is nice too. It may also fit slightly better horizontally. Sharpness is my first and foremost need. If that is good, but colour is an issue, there's always outboard CMS. If sharpness isn't good enough, there's no fixing it.

What's the warranty on these puppies again? Canadian JVC warranty?

I believe the warranty is 2 years. I tried my hand at one more screenshot. This is a pic from Wall-E



I won't plague this thread with my screenshots but I wanted to give one more a try. computer animated movies are always so pleasing visually anyway I figured it was hard to screw up

@Kelvin1965S,

I did play with the settings, but it doesn't help. I still see the overspill.

Does anyone else have seen this?

Pitou!

I think I've seen a bit of this, but I mostly watch 2.35:1 films using a lens and a 2.35:1 screen. Even at 12fL off screen I don't see this issue with the lens, but I think if I remove the lens for 16:9 content there may be a trace of overspill outside the picture. This is more visible on my setup as it's on the screen itself if I don't bother setting up some material as side masking. In your case your screen border must be quite light (or if you're projecting on a wall, I can't remember now), so maybe just a matter of better screen masking to solve.

I found It took a bit of trial and error on my part to line my screen up perfect. I don't see any overspill but i sit about 15ft away. I used the green zoom bars in menu to set my screen. I do have a slight very slight keystone correction to make but everything lines up when watching a Bluray. I'll check it out again tonight to see if I can see any overspill and report back.

You shouldn't really need to use keystone, especially as it will reduce resolution and cause jaggies even on HD sources. Just make sure the projector is dead square to the screen and use the shift functions to align the image accordingly.

Don't be put off by worrying about losing some tiny amount of sharpness by using the shift (it's negligable especially compared to using keystone instead).

I've watched a few films on my HD350 this weekend and I've marvelled at what a great image it produces (Avitar, 44 Inch chest & clips of Bond to mention a few). As I haven't seen any newer models than mine and the HD750 demos I've seen were 2 years ago (one in my own room, but before I made significant improvements and the other at a JVC launch so a distant memory), then I'm blissfully ignorant of what anything newer might improve. However, nothing stands out as needing improvement (note that I use a VideoEQ Pro for CMS though).

Most people won't complain about the occasional screenshot. It's kind of like an addiction we all share.

If its from the US JVC will not honor the warranty in Canada. you are SOL or have to pay to ship it to the US.

sSolar -- I agree with Kelvin1965S, the HD250 has lots of lens shift, so you shouldn't have to use Keystone at all. The lens shift will not degrade the picture at all, whereas using keystone results in re-scaling of the image which does effect the image resolution and sharpness.

+ cpc -- The Candian warranty should be 2 years, also, for all versions (except for the RS60, 3 years), if the HD250 is purchased in Canada.

BTW, I dug up some screen shots comparing the HD250 with the HD350 (RS10). The HD250 pix are from ahard, earlier in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=368. The first one has been captured from a lot of different PJs, and his is as good as any of the others I've seen.

From the "Screenshots War" thread, here are the only HD350 pix I found: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1134. Remember, image sharpness is a function of the camera technique, and the source mastering, in addition to the PJ used. Of these pix, the obvious sharpest one is the animation one. My favorite picture, though, is his last one.

Ok no keystone for me then. I will re-align the projector with the screen then. thanks guys.

My last attempt at screenshots was a bit better. I tried pan's labrynth, but they came out a bit over exposed. Computer animated movies are a bit easier to take. My wife thinks I nuts(I don't disagree). I am also adding some blinds to adjacent rooms as my livingroom is partially open to the rest of the main floor. It still wont be a bat cave but it will take care of most of the light(85%-90%) that splashes on the screen and I can still happily watch it during the day it if I wanted to (I want to). I had a bunch of people over for the fight yesterday and it really changed there outlook on projectors. They could not belive the quality from a projected image. We all made note of the different camera qualities used when they switched views of the fight. Something we never noticed before.

sSolar that Wall-E pic looks good. As others have mentioned, there is plenty of lens shift avail on the HD250.

Guys, I had a buddy over this afternoon and he wanted to see the projector in action. We started watching Pittsburg vs Miami and then I switched to two of my Netflix Blu-rays and he was floored. He kept saying this is better than going to the movies. He loved the sound and the pic. He kept commenting on how clear and bright the picture was. The awesome thing is that my blinds were open all the way and so plenty of sunlight was coming in and the pic wasn't washed out.

BTW, I returned the Yamaha surround reciever and bought a Denon 3310CI on clearance for 77% less than the MSRP on the receiver. Now I'm able to do the things I wanted to do with HDMI that the Yammy wouldn't allow me to do.

But it still only has one hdmi out, correct?

Thought you had an hdmi tv too....