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Sharp xv-z17000 : New dlp full hd 3d projector - Page 9

post #241 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post


since this happened right out of the box, couldn't you send the projector back to where you purchased it?

This was my initial thought, and exactly what I'd ordinarily do. Unfortunately, I paid attention to the "do not return to the store" text printed all over the manual . I thought, hey, the service center is less than 5 minutes away, might as well give it a shot

Ugh.
post #242 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doorknob View Post

This was my initial thought, and exactly what I'd ordinarily do. Unfortunately, I paid attention to the "do not return to the store" text printed all over the manual . I thought, hey, the service center is less than 5 minutes away, might as well give it a shot

Ugh.

is that the sharp service center? or a sharp authorized repair shop? because it sounds like the guy you've talked to doesn't know what the fix is - in which case sharp requires a photograph of the problem for documentation before the send out a new unit. in the meantime, you should be on the phone with Sharp pushing this along.
post #243 of 551
"How dose one upgrade ther 2D pj to 3D?"

Only the factory can do that, and only to very few models.
post #244 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by grubadub View Post


is that the sharp service center? or a sharp authorized repair shop? because it sounds like the guy you've talked to doesn't know what the fix is - in which case sharp requires a photograph of the problem for documentation before the send out a new unit. in the meantime, you should be on the phone with Sharp pushing this along.

It's an authorized repair shop. It seems to be the only option for me, and was the place that was recommended when I called Sharp.

Followup calling hasn't helped - I've tried. I probably need to be a bit more of a pain on the phone.

I also understand the need for documentation, which is why I included printouts of the photos I took, a diagram of where the issue occurred on the screen, and a full typewritten description of the problem when I turned the unit over - at least 3 pages of documentation. Unfortunately, Sharp needed electronic photos and the guy couldn't take them. That doesn't seem right to me.

A sad and perhaps amusing aside - as requested, I forwarded PNG photo files to the repair guy along with an email explaining my growing frustrations. I got a call back from him about 10 minutes later asking that I resend the PNG files without my complaints - because he couldn't forward the original message to Sharp with those comments in it.

Nice guy, but... I'm worried.
post #245 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doorknob View Post

Followup calling hasn't helped - I've tried. I probably need to be a bit more of a pain on the phone.

On another note - the online Sharp product support form has yet to generate a single return email, phone call, ANYTHING in response to my requests for help.
post #246 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

The 3D upgrade for 720p projectors came at no cost that I can tell. 2500 to upgrade the 1080p projector seems way out of line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terence View Post

How dose one upgrade ther 2D pj to 3D?

Can any pj be upgraded or just certain brands & models?

Thx!

I believe wneilsenbb was referring to the latest 3D version of a PJ from a manufacturer who had a 2D version almost identical the previous year. Not that the PJs are actually physically upgraded by modification.

The available 720p 3D PJs are all DLP-link PC-sourced. The Acer that is out "shortly" is the first true HDMI 1.4 720p 3D PJ I believe (feel free to correct me, but I had researched the market a few months ago while I considered the options).

The price of those 720p PJs do not include the glasses, and no emitter is required unless you go the NVIDIA route. The new HDMI 1.4 Acer looks to be at a higher price than the non-1.4 (HTPC 3D source only) version. Admittedly, not a $2500 value, but not a zero-cost delta.

Still, IMHO the main reason for the price is because they can ask it. There is no competition below their price range for a 1080p 3D PJ.

Next year, I expect to see a horde of 1080p 3D PJs selling for $1500 to $3000 (and above, of course). At which point I'll knash my teeth and tell myself it was worth it to be an early-ish adopter.

shinksma
post #247 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doorknob View Post

It's an authorized repair shop. It seems to be the only option for me, and was the place that was recommended when I called Sharp.

Followup calling hasn't helped - I've tried. I probably need to be a bit more of a pain on the phone.

I also understand the need for documentation, which is why I included printouts of the photos I took, a diagram of where the issue occurred on the screen, and a full typewritten description of the problem when I turned the unit over - at least 3 pages of documentation. Unfortunately, Sharp needed electronic photos and the guy couldn't take them. That doesn't seem right to me.

A sad and perhaps amusing aside - as requested, I forwarded PNG photo files to the repair guy along with an email explaining my growing frustrations. I got a call back from him about 10 minutes later asking that I resend the PNG files without my complaints - because he couldn't forward the original message to Sharp with those comments in it.

Nice guy, but... I'm worried.


well, i'm afraid just because sharp recommended the shop doesn't mean it's a good one, or even in businiess anymore (as i found out). i had to ship mine to houston (i live in the austin area) because the shops they showed as authorized were no longer in business.

unfortunately, your repair guy hasn't caught up to this century yet. you seem like a nice guy who is probably outside his comfort zone getting on the phone and raising heck with sharp. if so, i understand, i'm the same way. but you need to call sharp and explain to them how frustrated you are because it's a brand new unit and it's been a month yada yada. and that you can email the pictures straight to them.

it took a month to get my problem resolved but i got a new projector out of it and i was 10 months into my warranty so i made out alright. good luck.
post #248 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

"How dose one upgrade ther 2D pj to 3D?"

Only the factory can do that, and only to very few models.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma View Post

I believe wneilsenbb was referring to the latest 3D version of a PJ from a manufacturer who had a 2D version almost identical the previous year. Not that the PJs are actually physically upgraded by modification.

The available 720p 3D PJs are all DLP-link PC-sourced. The Acer that is out "shortly" is the first true HDMI 1.4 720p 3D PJ I believe (feel free to correct me, but I had researched the market a few months ago while I considered the options).

The price of those 720p PJs do not include the glasses, and no emitter is required unless you go the NVIDIA route. The new HDMI 1.4 Acer looks to be at a higher price than the non-1.4 (HTPC 3D source only) version. Admittedly, not a $2500 value, but not a zero-cost delta.

Still, IMHO the main reason for the price is because they can ask it. There is no competition below their price range for a 1080p 3D PJ.

Next year, I expect to see a horde of 1080p 3D PJs selling for $1500 to $3000 (and above, of course). At which point I'll knash my teeth and tell myself it was worth it to be an early-ish adopter.

shinksma

Thx guys!
post #249 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

"How dose one upgrade ther 2D pj to 3D?"

Only the factory can do that, and only to very few models.

Yes, you can "upgrade" your 2D projector to 3D! First the upside. Any HDMI projector apparently can be "upgraded" to 3D with a brand new product from VIP. Now the downside. You're looking at 30hz per eye so flicker will probably be a problem for most. Are you willing to take a leap of faith? I'll probably "upgrade" my Epson 9500 just out of curiosity.
post #250 of 551
Does that thing work with 1080p projectors? Also, are there any 1080p120hz dlp pj's out right now? Would be great if you could use that 3d-displayer with one of those.
post #251 of 551
Got my XV-Z17000 yesterday, and had it mounted and running within an hour or so. (Chief universal mount works quite well.) Although I encountered an HDMI signal issue (more on that later), eventually I watched the first half of Avatar in glorious 3D. The Sharp glasses seem comfortable enough - yes, like all/most ASGs there is a noticable drop in brightness, but the bright mode of the PJ more than makes up for it. I'll try some X103s eventually.

It's a bigger PJ than I expected - not as big as an RS40 I believe, or the BenQ W5000 I use for 2D duties, but larger than some of the 1080p Optomas I've seen at Best Buy, etc.

I'm very happy with my purchase - thanks Bobbi at AVS!

So onto my HDMI signal issues that I got resolved: I'm using switches and switching-splitters (modified Monoprice switchers) to route the various HDMI signals around, since my receiver is not HDMI1.4, and I still want to use the 2D PJ for 2D duties, and I have an Oppo BD player for SACD and DVD-A, blah blah. Everything was fine with my 2D PJ - the signal wasn't full of sparklies, and everything seemed to handshake just fine.

With the 17000 connected and the switches/splitters set to route HDMI direct from the 3D BD player to the PJ (and not to the other PJ), the BD player refused to believe there was a 3D-capable display at the other end. At first I thought it might be a firmware/EDID issue (player had an old FW, so I updated it), but that didn't fix it. I also manually enabled the 3D mode on the PJ, and verified it was selected on the player. Still no dice.

Rather than get frustrated, I watched a couple of free 3D HD shows from cable just to see how the PJ handled it (3 D Sun and Wild Oceans 3D? - the one about fish populations and stuff off the South African coast). Those cable shows were pretty good. I had to force the PJ into TAB 3D format - it wouldn't auto select. However, I now suspect that might be related to my HDMI signal issue...

I realized it was probably that the 3D PJ or 3D BD player was somehow detecting a non-3D component somewhere in the "network" of HDMI switches etc. So I plugged directly from player to PJ bypassing the switchers, and the player was very happy to send a 3D image to the PJ.

Now I will experiment to determine which aspect was the culprit: the player confused by sensing the other (2D) PJ, which should have been isolated out by the splitter-switcher, or the 3D PJ getting confused about another HDMI source (receiver and other players) being seen through the switcher.

I may end up having to run an additional 35' HDMI cable from player to 3D PJ.

Anyway, I will play with color balance and other tweaks over the next few days/weeks. For now, I'm just happy everything works and got mounted properly.

Feel free to ask questions about aspects of operation or set-up - I may or may not be able to answer them with any authority or conviction, but I'll try my best.

shinksma
post #252 of 551
I would consider a balun instead of a 35' HDMI run for 3D applications.
post #253 of 551
I'm very happy with my purchase - thanks Bobbi at AVS!


shinksma[/quote]

shinksma, thank you for the kind words. I'm glad you're enjoying your new projector. We have them in stock for immediate shipment. Thanks for your support.
post #254 of 551
"Does that thing work with 1080p projectors? Also, are there any 1080p120hz dlp pj's out right now?"
there are plenty of 1080p120Hz display projectors, but zero with 120Hz input. HDMI chips can't handle that bandwidth apparently. It would have to be DVI or displayport, and would be above the current 3D required spec. 1080P 3D projectors like the 17000 only accept 1080P24 3D. That is prefect for movies, but pretty bad for gaming. That device will give you 1080P30, which isn't much of an improvement. When (if) someone makes a 1080P 120HZ (or 1080P60 3D) many of us PC gamers will be VERY happy.
post #255 of 551
I just got my new Sharp Z17000 projector setup and working. I had to buy a new video card - seems the ATI 5700 series doesn't do HDMI 4.1, so I got a Nvidia GT440. Then had some issues with TMT 5 - but finally got it all working and I LOVE IT- and just as important my wife and daughter love it. I'll post more as I have a chance, but 3D pass through and bitstream audio work fine with an Onkyo 608.

Unfortunately the Panasonic glasses DO NOT WORK. So I need to find another pair to compliment the 2 sharp glasses that came with the projector. Does any know for sure if the Expand x103 glasses work with the Z17000?

Thanks.
post #256 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor View Post

I just got my new Sharp Z17000 projector setup and working. I had to buy a new video card - seems the ATI 5700 series doesn't do HDMI 4.1, so I got a Nvidia GT440.

HDMI 4.1?!!! Geez, I'm not even fully caught up to HDMI1.4!

I keed, I keed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor View Post

Then had some issues with TMT 5 - but finally got it all working and I LOVE IT- and just as important my wife and daughter love it. I'll post more as I have a chance, but 3D pass through and bitstream audio work fine with an Onkyo 608.

Unfortunately the Panasonic glasses DO NOT WORK. So I need to find another pair to compliment the 2 sharp glasses that came with the projector. Does any know for sure if the Expand x103 glasses work with the Z17000?

Thanks.

Not surprising the Panasonic glasses don't work - they all have different IR codes.

But to confirm: the X103s do indeed work with the XV-Z17000 - I just tried a pair. I think it was the third setting, but not sure - I never could tell whether I was turning on/off the glasses or changing modes sometimes...

I didn't feel like doing a major comparison for feel, weight, and brightness just now. I'll do that sometime later. But the X103s didn't seem any worse than the stock Sharp glasses, and the lenses are bigger on the X103s (and therefore give a bigger field of view - you don't see the frames as much).

shinksma
post #257 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma View Post

HDMI 4.1?!!! Geez, I'm not even fully caught up to HDMI1.4!

I keed, I keed...

What - not everyone has upgraded to 4.1 yet

Thanks for the tip on the x103 - I wear glasses so the extra lens size will help.
post #258 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma View Post

So onto my HDMI signal issues that I got resolved: I'm using switches and switching-splitters (modified Monoprice switchers) to route the various HDMI signals around, since my receiver is not HDMI1.4, ...

I realized it was probably that the 3D PJ or 3D BD player was somehow detecting a non-3D component somewhere in the "network" of HDMI switches etc. So I plugged directly from player to PJ bypassing the switchers, and the player was very happy to send a 3D image to the PJ.

The problem you are probably having is with the HDMI switchers. HDMI 1.3 cable is fine but receivers and switchers have to be designed for 3D. All my very good HDMI 1.3 switchers are no good for 3D. When you look for new switchers ask if they are certified for 3D. This is why some players have two HDMI outputs, one to go directly to the projector and the other for audio or non 3D applications. Isn't HDMI great?
post #259 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Cruce View Post

The problem you are probably having is with the HDMI switchers. HDMI 1.3 cable is fine but receivers and switchers have to be designed for 3D. All my very good HDMI 1.3 switchers are no good for 3D. When you look for new switchers ask if they are certified for 3D. This is why some players have two HDMI outputs, one to go directly to the projector and the other for audio or non 3D applications. Isn't HDMI great?

I noticed a bunch of links to products in my posting. DISCLAIMER: I did not insert those links and I have no knowledge if any of them are 3D compatible.
post #260 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Cruce View Post
I noticed a bunch of links to products in my posting. DISCLAIMER: I did not insert those links and I have no knowledge if any of them are 3D compatible.
I think it is an AVSFOURM automated paid advertising thing - a little sketchy but perhaps necessary to fund the board.
post #261 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Cruce View Post

The problem you are probably having is with the HDMI switchers. HDMI 1.3 cable is fine but receivers and switchers have to be designed for 3D. All my very good HDMI 1.3 switchers are no good for 3D. When you look for new switchers ask if they are certified for 3D. This is why some players have two HDMI outputs, one to go directly to the projector and the other for audio or non 3D applications. Isn't HDMI great?

My investigations described below reveal that the switchers themselves are HDMI1.4 compatible in the sense that they can pass an HDMI1.4 3D signal, the problem lies in mixing HDMI1.3 and 1.4 devices, and some switchers not fully isolating the non-selected device(s).

I did some experimenting last night, and found that the "Splitter-switcher" (a modified Monoprice switcher) for the two PJs was OK to be in-line: the 3D player apparently only sees the 3D PJ, and doesn't get confused.

But if I put the (regular) switcher in-line to select the source for the 3D PJ to be either the 3D player or my receiver, the PJ would not communicate its 3D capabilities to the player, so the player would only play in 2D mode. This seems very odd to me, but might be because the nature of the switcher is to still pass certain data to/from both available devices, and maybe, because my receiver is on for audio, it is providing "valid" HDMI1.3 data to foul up the communications. This differs from the PJ splitter-switcher, where I don't turn on the other PJ, so maybe it is simply not providing any HDMI data to confuse the player.

Net result: I ordered a long HDMI cable to run dedicated from 3D player to 3D PJ.

My conclusion is that the switchers work fine for HDMI1.4, but they do not fully isolate the non-selected device, which can cause modality confusion in mixed HDMI configurations: the "switch" is not a massive 19-pin toggle, but only toggles certain pins of the two sources. Which is disappointing but not surprising, in retrospect.

My conclusions only, based on observations,

shinksma
post #262 of 551
Hi,
got my new Sharp yesterday.
I've been watching some Sky Sports 3D, a couple of 3D blu-rays, and Played some PS3.

First of all, The crosstalk like artifacts mentioned in Art's review, I can see somthing that looks like crosstalk while watching sky 3D. When they show the goal posts in Rugby (same as in American Football, more or less) up against the sky, there are some thin shadows on each side of the poles. This is not crosstalk because it's still there when I close one of my eyes, what it is I do not know, maybe something with the sbs stream ?

Whatching 3D blu-rays there are no crosstalk or any other artifacts at all (atleast not in the two I have, Resident Evil and Monster House)

3D on PS3 is also quite good. I can see it's struggling with the fast movements in Gran Turismo 5, but the graphics in Crysis2 is amazing.

I would recomend the Sharp over JVC and Sony any day, the whole 3D experience is so much better

:-)
post #263 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustmeF View Post

I would recomend the Sharp over JVC and Sony any day, the whole 3D experience is so much better

:-)

Do you have the RS40/50 or the Sony for comparison as well?

I recall one owner had a JVC as well but he got held up in posting his impressions.
post #264 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

Do you have the RS40/50 or the Sony for comparison as well?

I recall one owner had a JVC as well but he got held up in posting his impressions.


Hi,
Sorry, I probably should have written how I got to the conclution that sharp are the better one.

I don't own any of the other 3D projectors, I've only got them demoed at the shops that sell them.
You might say that 1,5 hrs. watching the X3, and 30 min. watching the sony is too short a time to come to a conclution like I just did, and I actually agree...

but... the sony is almost twice as expensive and the light output is way too low in 3D, and I did see Crosstalk/chosting in the material that I got demoed.
If that viewing had impressed me I would have bought one, but at the time I wanted perfect and the feeling I got after viewing it was that the JVC was better (just came from my the jvc demo)

When watching JVC X3, I keept getting distracted by the fact that the ppl in the shop, had no clue as how to setup a PJ and the image was much wider in the bottom than the top.
Had I then known what lens shift is, and the fact that I could place it without any problems at all in my HT, I would have bought it right there because I wanted 3D pretty bad at that time.

so, I watched Avatar under less than perfect conditions, but it was an impressive display and I could enjoy the movie and the 3D. Avatar looked great, but then again, it's designed to look amazing in 3D.
After avatar I watched one of those demo discs, where you first select what clips to see, then press play (probably made for demoing in a store, too impress a wide range of audience).
There I could see noticable crosstalk, in a high contrast clip (someone drawing a house or somthing on bright background) I could see the "shadows" up to 5" to the sides of the drawing...

At that point I could write that off as bad demo material, but because the ppl in the store had told me that there was no way I could place it in my current HT, there was no point in buying it.
Knowing what I know today, maybe I should call and thank them ;-)


The two more expensive JVCs I have not seen, from what I've read it seems that the cheapest one is the popular one, most likely due to the pricetag compared to it's brothers.
The fact that the CMS of the two top models, is impossible to calibrate is probably keeping ppl from buying it. I've not tried calibrating it myself, but some of the most experienced in the field, say it's not possible with the current firmware.


My conclution is therfore:
If you want great 3D, buy Sharp.
If you want a great picture, with the posibillety of watching 3D once in a while, buy a JVC RS 40/X3. JVC should be able to produce a superrior black level, for us who like our blacks to be black.


sry about the looong response :-/
post #265 of 551
I've taken som photoes to demonstrate the black level of the projector.
the left of the picture is a Infocus IN82 and the right is the Sharp.

a is : movie 1, iris1 - high brightness, iris2 - off
b: movie 1, iris1 - high brightness, iris2 - on
c: movie 1, iris1 - High Contrast, iris2 - on
d: movie 1, iris1 - High Contrast, iris2 - off

you can see that when the picture is very dark, the IN82 is the better one.

note that the bulb of IN82 has run 2200 hrs.
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post #266 of 551
Here are som photos when there are a brighter object in the picture, here the Sharp takes the lead.
notice how much better the image looks with dynamic iris enabled.

same setting as previous post
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post #267 of 551
When going from Brightness- to contrast mode on iris1, the color shifts a little towards red.
I've tried to demonstrate this in the photos, but the color on both projectors are warmer than I could manage to reproduce, probably due to a lack of photo knowledge :-)

this is probably possible to calibrate.

here are the b and c shots of some series with more color.
the huge diference between infucus and sharp is posible due to the hours on the bulb, iris on infocus is at 100 % but it's still in a low lamp mode.


btw, all my photos are taken on a Grandview 92" grey 0.8 gain screen
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post #268 of 551
Hey JustmeF, we appreciate the screenshot comparisons. It would be interesting to compare both your PJs with new bulbs and max brightness conditions (iris full open, non-econ mode, etc), but I understand you may not want or be able to do that.

I must admit I've been too busy with "life" to do any further PJ viewing, so I have nothing to add in terms of user experience or suggested settings. Maybe tonight...

shinksma
post #269 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma View Post
Hey JustmeF, we appreciate the screenshot comparisons. It would be interesting to compare both your PJs with new bulbs and max brightness conditions (iris full open, non-econ mode, etc), but I understand you may not want or be able to do that.

I must admit I've been too busy with "life" to do any further PJ viewing, so I have nothing to add in terms of user experience or suggested settings. Maybe tonight...

shinksma
The only problem is that I don't have a new bulb for the infocus. I can order a new one of course, but they're kinda expensive... maybe I'll order one and calibrate it before I sell the PJ.

Anyways, running the infocus on high power mode is noisy, and therefor not really an option for watching movies.
The Sharp on the other hand is much more quiet in all modes, and with full power on it's way too bright for 2D, but in 3D gaming I use game mode which is basicly max power with as little inputlag as posssible :-)

I'll try to take some photos with more light :-)

I'll be back in some hours :-)
post #270 of 551
I just watched Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs on the Sharp XV-Z17000. (Not a bad movie, kinda goofy, but I wouldn't go out of my way to watch it again.)

I compared the Sharp OEM glasses with the XpanD X103 glasses a bit, especially during the credits. The Sharps are more neutral-colored: the tint of the movie looked pretty well the same with or without the glasses, just darker with the glasses, naturally. The X103 glasses caused a slight rose or red tint, most noticeable on stuff like the credits, which were in white (or almost white) text. That extra bit of rose or red or pink hue caused a slight perception of less brightness, but was not hugely significant, and I would bet that you'd never notice the tint when watching the whole film using the X103s because our eyes/brains color adapt. So I'll use the Sharps for me and whatever special female friend I have over, and the rest of the crowd, if any, can use the X103s.

Oh, and I didn't notice any ghosting or crosstalk, but I wasn't looking for it either. The Sharp glasses didn't lose sync at all during the movie, even with the occasional lapdog in my face asking for treats/attention.

shinksma
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