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Sharp xv-z17000 : New dlp full hd 3d projector - Page 11

post #301 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Here's a nice little review of the Sharp 3D -- scroll down a bit.

http://www.avsforum.com/

direct link http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1330458
post #302 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma View Post

I just finished watching Tron: Legacy (don't laugh. . .). . .
shinksma

I just got the XV-Z17k up and set to 3D (via PS3). . .GT5 & Black Ops. . .WoW.

Next, I'm ready for a movie, and Tron3D is exactly the one I'm waiting for. Definitely not laughing here. . . smiling, of course.
post #303 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogone View Post

Dang it, you beat me...I started an owners thread (guess I shouldn't have) anyways, go to that thread and post your findings...We would appriciate it.

This member is something else: Buys the 17000, promises to report on it, starts an owners thread, then total silence for months.
He posted over in the Oppo 93 thread recently so he is still around.
post #304 of 551
Hey guys.

Looking to sell my RS50 and get the Sharp in the near future. Now I had absolutely 0 ghosting on my Acer 5360, be it gaming on ps3 or the most demanding 3D bluray movies.

Now Im reading a few reviews that mention some crosstalk with the Sharp. Are these reviewers correct? I was under the assumption that DLP does not have any ghosting and it's basically impossible with how fast the DLP mirrors can switch (2000hz)

Has anyone any experience with crosstalk on the Sharp? The easiest way for me to see crosstalk on the JVC was to put in a game like motorstorm on the PS3. The crosstalk was very visible on your vehicle on both the Sony VW90 and the JVC.

Any PS3 owners with Motorstorm able to test please? I think the Sharp is going to be the projector for me but if theres any hint of crosstalk I may reconsider my plans.

Also Im hoping the 2D capabilities will be adequate as it would be nice to have 1 projector instead of two. I also love that DLP sharpness and motion that I can never get from LCOS. DLP and Live action are in my opinion always superior then LCOS, but when it comes to film it's very tricky.

Im hoping to get a decent price for a new sealed RS50, that may cover both the Sharp and maybe a B stock vw80 if AVS gets any crazy deals in the near future.

As I have sent my RS50 back to my dealer I've been using the Acer 5360 for watching and I'm surprised to say that this 500.00 projector does some things better in 2D then an 8000.00 projector. LOL.

Ex. BBC show Human Planet, and PS3 gaming actually look better on the Acer. Films still don't look all that great on the Acer however. But for a 500.00 projector it's damn fine picture!!
post #305 of 551
Everything that is 2 channel will have some degree of cross talk. Audio or video, there will always be some cross talk. It just depends on how much before it bothers you or you nitice it. Shutter glasses aren't perfect and they don't completely block the other eye image, bingo cross talk. The longer one eye is open the more cross talk there qwill be. No matter the projection technology. Some technologies take longer to fully write an image and then erase it. To get enough light, the shutter can be set to open longer but during that time the eye sees more of what it shouldn;'t because the wrong image is still there or partially there. Its a combination of everything but some level of cross talk will always be there and the more sensitive you become (give me a hug you big lug ) the motre likely small amounts may bother you.
post #306 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Hey guys.

Looking to sell my RS50 and get the Sharp in the near future. Now I had absolutely 0 ghosting on my Acer 5360, be it gaming on ps3 or the most demanding 3D bluray movies.

Now Im reading a few reviews that mention some crosstalk with the Sharp. Are these reviewers correct? I was under the assumption that DLP does not have any ghosting and it's basically impossible with how fast the DLP mirrors can switch (2000hz)

Has anyone any experience with crosstalk on the Sharp? The easiest way for me to see crosstalk on the JVC was to put in a game like motorstorm on the PS3. The crosstalk was very visible on your vehicle on both the Sony VW90 and the JVC.

Any PS3 owners with Motorstorm able to test please? I think the Sharp is going to be the projector for me but if theres any hint of crosstalk I may reconsider my plans.

Also Im hoping the 2D capabilities will be adequate as it would be nice to have 1 projector instead of two. I also love that DLP sharpness and motion that I can never get from LCOS. DLP and Live action are in my opinion always superior then LCOS, but when it comes to film it's very tricky.

Im hoping to get a decent price for a new sealed RS50, that may cover both the Sharp and maybe a B stock vw80 if AVS gets any crazy deals in the near future.

As I have sent my RS50 back to my dealer I've been using the Acer 5360 for watching and I'm surprised to say that this 500.00 projector does some things better in 2D then an 8000.00 projector. LOL.

Ex. BBC show Human Planet, and PS3 gaming actually look better on the Acer. Films still don't look all that great on the Acer however. But for a 500.00 projector it's damn fine picture!!

If the Sharp does everything as well as the Acer, but has a better black level then it should be a very fine 3D projector. I don't use the Acer for 2D at all. I watched both Sharks and Hubble last night on the Acer in 3D and it was an impressive experience. With the exception of the opening and closing scenes of just the planet earth sitting in space, while watching Hubble, everything else looked great. The opening and closing scene showed a weakness in black level. I suspect the Sharp will handle these two scenes better, which would be very impressive. Right now, for 3D, only DLP interests me. I'm just hearing too many complaints about ghosting in 3D mode from the owners of some relatively expensive LCoS projectors.
post #307 of 551
Quote:


Next, I'm ready for a movie, and Tron3D is exactly the one I'm waiting for. Definitely not laughing here. . . smiling, of course.

Want to know how much i dont like 3D, when i went to see Tron at the movies, I would take off the 3D glasses when they would change to 2D in parts of the movie
post #308 of 551
I haven't observed/noticed any crosstalk or ghosting when watching 3D on my XV-Z17000. But maybe I don't know what to look for...and don't anybody try to educate me! I'm blissful in my ignorance, apparently.

The only shortfalls with the XV-Z17000 are, IMHO:

1. Placement/alignment limited due to fixed offset: no vertical or horizontal adjustment.

2. Fan is noisier than other models (seems like it is twice as loud as my BenQ W5000, for example). Not really noisy, but I can hear it when I stand at the side of the room and there is no other source of noise. It does not seem as loud when seated (below and forward, obviously).

Everything else that may be a compromise/limitation is the usual part of DLP vs LCD/LCOS chatter: black levels vs image brightness, rainbow effect (I don't see it) vs alignment issues, etc.

I was all set to buy a JVC RS-40, but the availability was poor and I determined that an XV-Z17000 would fit perfectly in my room. Since I had the BenQ W5000 already I was familiar and comfortable with DLP tech (no RBE, etc), so I just switched orders with AVS.

As always, the thing that annoys me the most about projectors is knowing that I'll be spending a not-insignificant amount of money to replace the bulb someday. So LED light-engine technology is the only thing that will make me want to upgrade in the forseeable future. Well, 4K sources/displays, better blacks, and higher brightness might tempt me...

shinksma
post #309 of 551
I too am a former JVC owner (rs40). It threw an incredible picture in both 2d and 3d. However, for the amount it costs, I just couldn't accept the flaws, namely ghosting with video games. Ghosting on movies I could live with overall, but the 30 minute warm-up and occasional ghosting just didn't seem worth it to me.

So I sold it and picked up an Acer as well. I am having a similar experience as Conan. I am amazed at how decent the 2d picture looks, even having more pop in many scenes over the rs40. I haven't owned a dlp for a few years so it was a pleasant surprise.

Of course 3d has no visible ghosting in movies and only noticed one instance of ghosting on video games (Motorstorm with a white flag against the blackness of a cave).

For those who like dlp pop and 3d, the Sharp is the only option for 1080p in this price range presently.

One question about the Sharp: How fast does it refresh in 3d? I haven't read anywhere where it does so at 120hz.
post #310 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsmith808 View Post

...

For those who like dlp pop and 3d, the Sharp is the only option for 1080p in this price range presently.

...

Well, in Europe there is a Samsung A8000 3D Full HD available, would think about that unit in the US too, although it has some donnsides its quite a nice projector.
post #311 of 551
shinksmaI haven't observed/noticed any crosstalk or ghosting when watching 3D on my XV-Z17000. But maybe I don't know what to look for...and don't anybody try to educate me! I'm blissful in my ignorance, apparently.

can you please show some screen shots I want to buy this projecter but I would like to see some screen shots
post #312 of 551
I also sat on the fence debating buying a JVC RS40 or a Sharp. I am not a videophile and have lived happily with a NEC HT1000 for many years. 3D is what got me interested in upgrading. The known issues with the JVC that have been mentioned in these forums steered me to the Sharp which I have had for about a week. To my untrained eye 2D compared to my NEC is noticeably better. The picture is razor sharp and the colors pop. Black levels seem good but they are not truly black. My screen is a 114" Seymour accoustical screen. Although I watch in a dark room, the walls, ceiling and floor are very light in color and I am sure this reduces the black levels. 3D is where the projector shines. My wife and daughter who could care less about video were invited down to see what they thought. Neither wanted to but I asked for 5 minutes of their time. A half hour later I had to turn the projector off to get them to leave. They were amazed how bright and clear the picture was compared to what they had seen at the local cinema. I have not noticed any cross talk or ghosting. Sometimes on fast moving scenes your eye cannot track briefly but that is it. I would highly recommend this projector if you are not anally retentive about black levels. With the right setup you might even be happy with them. The night scenes in the Dark Night looked very good to my eye. As I use the projector more and calibrate it I will report back. Thanks to AVS for their support with my purchase!
post #313 of 551
flint - have you done a grey scale calibration? it will improve the black levels.
post #314 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by robdman View Post

can you please show some screen shots I want to buy this projecter but I would like to see some screen shots

To be frank, IMHO there is zero use in posting screenshots of a working projector, unless there are other identically-set-up shots of other PJs, using the exact same camera and settings, for illustrative-comparison purposes. Any camera-monitor combination will never be able to reproduce what your Mk I eyeball can see, and you can manipulate exposure time, color balance and contrast to get whatever result you want to emphasize.

Take any of the screenshots from any random post in the screenshot thread and I could probably reproduce something that looks pretty identical as a screenshot (not necessarily what I see in-person), even if my PJ/set-up was completely different from whatever that poster had set-up.

As a point of reference, if you are really desperate for comparison shots, I would say the XV-Z17000 looks very similar to the BenQ W5000 - I have and use both regularly. So look for screenshots of a W5000.

shinksma
post #315 of 551
Thanks Grubadub. I hope to try to calibrate greyscale this weekend with HCFR colorimeter. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
post #316 of 551
When calibrating the sharp greyscale which controls should be used to adjust RGB High End and Low End?
post #317 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by robdman View Post
shinksmaI haven't observed/noticed any crosstalk or ghosting when watching 3D on my XV-Z17000. But maybe I don't know what to look for...and don't anybody try to educate me! I'm blissful in my ignorance, apparently.

can you please show some screen shots I want to buy this projecter but I would like to see some screen shots
I never saw ghosting or cross bleeding. Using a test pattern supplied to me by Stacey Spears (and sure to appear on a forthcoming Spears & Munsil test disc) bleeding for the Sharp was 0.00% in blue, green, and red, which can't be beat! Other displays vary from 0.25% to 13% (the former not visible but the latter is horrible. A full review will appear in the May-June issue of Widescreen Review.
post #318 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint View Post
When calibrating the sharp greyscale which controls should be used to adjust RGB High End and Low End?
The only controls I could find are for RED and BLUE in the main menu. There are no separate controls for High and Low luminance. However, in practice the Sharp has a pretty flat gray scale and so these are workable. Full review will appear in the May-June (the 3D issue) of Widescreen Review.
post #319 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsmith808 View Post
One question about the Sharp: How fast does it refresh in 3d? I haven't read anywhere where it does so at 120hz.
120 Hz in 3D. You read it here.

That is 60 Hz to each eye, which Sharp interprets as 120 Hz. YMMV.
post #320 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Cruce View Post
120 Hz in 3D. You read it here.
So this forum is finally catching up to the average Joe 3D game player who have been ecstatic with the $600 1280*720p DLP projectors.Like for the last year.
I bought the 2D Mitsubishi 4000 with DC3. Projector Central, Consumer Reports and myself have been strongly recommending it in that other forum. It has a glass lens with long life bulbs. Does not need calibration either.
Then Sharp charges 4x more for 3D with a plastic lens based upon the 15000 model, which "only" had very good picture quality. Needs calibration. Rather disgusting. I don't mind paying 2X but I have to pass at this price gouging. Patience will pay-off.
In the mean time I'll suffer with a 65" 3D vt25 plasma, also with no ghosting.
In my opinion DLP and plasma rule 3D.

Note: I read Shane's excellent reviews closely too!
post #321 of 551
For those on these boards that have had this projector for awhile, any chance of posting some picture settings? I'll be receiving mine in a couple of weeks and just wanted to get some picture settings and adjustment benchmarks.

Edit: How has the built-in IR emitter been working? Do the glasses sync fairly well from 15'-17'?
post #322 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Cruce View Post
120 Hz in 3D. You read it here.
Thanks for that clarification.
post #323 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Cruce View Post

120 Hz in 3D. You read it here.

even with a 1080p/24 source?
post #324 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Looking to sell my RS50 and get the Sharp in the near future. Now I had absolutely 0 ghosting on my Acer 5360, be it gaming on ps3 or the most demanding 3D bluray movies.

After 6 months with my Optoma GT720 (720p DLP 3D), I've clocked around 600 hours. I also saw a few JVC X3 (RS30) and X9 (RS60) in user setups up to around 30 hours I think. Even for the same price, I will NOT trade my 720p DLP for 3D content!

Next step will be a 1080p DLP 3D. I hope by the end of the year there will be many to select...

regards,

Li On
post #325 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

even with a 1080p/24 source?

Referring to 3D at 120 Hz? Yes.

Actually it is 60 Hz to each eye in 3D. Sharp interprets that as 120 Hz; others might disagree. It is otherwise 60 Hz in 2D.
post #326 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Cruce View Post

Referring to 3D at 120 Hz? Yes.

Is it 120hz (24hz x5) per eye?

Current 720p DLP runs in 120hz per both eyes, 60hz per eye, so 3/2 judder is still there for 24fps source. If 1080p DLP does 120hz per eye, that is great!

regards,

Li On

PS: on the JVC with 24p source, it does 48hz (24x2) per eye, 96hz per both eyes. There is no 3/2 judder, but in bright area I see flicker!
post #327 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Li On View Post

After 6 months with my Optoma GT720 (720p DLP 3D), I've clocked around 600 hours. I also saw a few JVC X3 (RS30) and X9 (RS60) in user setups up to around 30 hours I think. Even for the same price, I will NOT trade my 720p DLP for 3D content!

Next step will be a 1080p DLP 3D. I hope by the end of the year there will be many to select...

regards,

Li On

This is why 3D projectors seem to be the big exception to the old adage, "You get what you pay for".
post #328 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE DU3C3 View Post

For those on these boards that have had this projector for awhile, any chance of posting some picture settings? I'll be receiving mine in a couple of weeks and just wanted to get some picture settings and adjustment benchmarks.

Edit: How has the built-in IR emitter been working? Do the glasses sync fairly well from 15'-17'?

If I remember sometime soon, I'll try to check my specific settings, but I seem to recall they were as follows (mostly standard defaults) - I'm using the online manual to "remember" settings:

Contrast, Bright, Color, Tint, Sharp, Red, Blue, CLR Temp all at "0".

IRIS1 (Manual) High Brightness
IRIS2 (auto) Off
Eco+Quiet Off
Gamma 0
CMS 1 and 2 (default, CMS 1 I would guess)
Bright Boost On (I think - keep in mind I use my XV-Z17K for mostly 3-D)
Film Mode Auto
Detail Enhancement 0
DNR Off
MNR Off

Video Setup 0 IRE (I use HDMI, so not relevant)
Dynamic Range Auto


The built-in IR emitter has been just fine. The PJ is mounted about 12' from the screen, and the glasses still work when I stand at the back of the room about 20' from the screen, so round trip distance of 32' is not a challenge.

I've never lost sync with the glasses, using both Sharp and XpanD glasses.

Hope that helps,

shinksma
post #329 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

This is why 3D projectors seem to be the big exception to the old adage, "You get what you pay for".


Agreed. The thought of people paying for the Sony ES90, JVC RS60 or more(!) for other non DLP units with 3d being a BIG priority that have ghosting issues hurts to think about! The RS40 was more than I wanted to spend on a first gen 3d unit, but considering over 90% of my viewing would be 2d, it ended up being a good buy even with the mixed bag 3d.

I was able to see your Acer finally DejaVu at a friends house (I convinced him to buy it!) and I have to say I was impressed as far as the 3d went (2d while good for the price was expectedly no match for the JVCs, Sonys, etc...IMO)! While it had pros/cons compared to my RS40 as far as 3d, the HUGE advantage was the completely ghost free image which has been bothering me more as time goes on with my RS40 The horrible placement of the current DLPs prevent me from trying one out, but I am hoping for something more flexible in the near future that wont break the bank.......I am not holding my breath, but it would be great if it happened! As far as ghosting goes, my RS40 ranges from a handful of very minor instances (Avatar) to consistent, heavy and presentation ruining (IMO) levels (Dinosaurs Giants of Patagonia). Most of the discs have been on the lighter side to be fair, but this extreme range in too much for me and I am not totally happy with the 3d on this unit mainly because of that. 3d Gaming you can forget about on the RS40 as the ghosting is terrible......2d I am VERY happy with, but 3d is a mixed bag.

Would love to see this Sharp in action even if I cant work it into my setup just to see some ghost free 1080p 3d.
post #330 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Li On View Post

Is it 120hz (24hz x5) per eye?

Current 720p DLP runs in 120hz per both eyes, 60hz per eye, so 3/2 judder is still there for 24fps source. If 1080p DLP does 120hz per eye, that is great!

regards,

Li On

PS: on the JVC with 24p source, it does 48hz (24x2) per eye, 96hz per both eyes. There is no 3/2 judder, but in bright area I see flicker!


Interesting. So when hooking this projector up to a PC, the monitor properties show 1920x1080 at 120hz? or is it only for a resolution of 1280x720? I'm not sure HDMI supports 1920x1080 at 120hz.

Anyone know if the XV-Z15000 supports 120hz?
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