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Sharp xv-z17000 : New dlp full hd 3d projector - Page 14

post #391 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE DU3C3 View Post

I wouldn't be so quick to say that the Panny would be a better 3D projector than the Sharp. DLP tech has proved to be the best for 3D projection so far. If the Panny is a LCOS based unit it will more than likely have the same ghosting issues as the current JVC units. For the price and the performance, the Sharp is where it is at.

That would depend on the speed of the LCoS panels, the JVC's are 120Hz, the Sony LCoS's are 240hz, Epson (???)Hz. Agree DLP have the edge in the ghosting reduction, but not in the CR area....but I am begining to think for 3D, perhaps since depth is created with the use of two images, CR is not that important?
post #392 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

And that Panasonic unit will likely be an Epson based LCoS unit with lens memory........Tasty!

I hear you. My only concern is that DLP tech has the best track record with 3D. There are reasons for that and I am not prepared to argue about it. That is why the Sharp looks so good right now. There is something to be said for things that just work without fooling around.
post #393 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

I hear you. My only concern is that DLP tech has the best track record with 3D. There are reasons for that and I am not prepared to argue about it. That is why the Sharp looks so good right now. There is something to be said for things that just work without fooling around.

Yep....panel speed seems to be the ghosting reduction prerequsite.
post #394 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

That would depend on the speed of the LCoS panels, the JVC's are 120Hz, the Sony LCoS's are 240hz, Epson (???)Hz. Agree DLP have the edge in the ghosting reduction, but not in the CR area....but I am begining to think for 3D, perhaps since depth is created with the use of two images, CR is not that important?

My understanding is that the JVC compromises its on/off CR by 50% in 3D mode -- so don't count on other technologies having great CR levels for 3D. Once you put the glasses on the black level for DLP improves nicely.
post #395 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

My understanding is that the JVC compromises its on/off CR by 50% in 3D mode -- so don't count on other technologies having great CR levels for 3D. Once you put the glasses on the black level for DLP improves nicely.

Not only that, but I am guessing just about all who actually demoed the 2 side by side would take the ghost free image over one with slightly more contrast.....I know I would.
post #396 of 551
Although it is interesting to read the discusssions on DLP vs LCOS, etc in this thread it would be more prudent to hear about the Sharp itself from actual users. I have had mine for over three weeks now and have loved every minute watching the beautiful picture both in 3d and 2d. For those waiting on the fence you are missing a great projector. Its only limitation is in placement. Watching 3d is a great family experience. The projector is very bright on my 114 inch Seymour screen and the picture colorful and sharp. I cannot blame those who chose to wait over price or placement issues but can the picture get much better than this on a DLP projector?
post #397 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint View Post

Although it is interesting to read the discusssions on DLP vs LCOS, etc in this thread it would be more prudent to hear about the Sharp itself from actual users. I have had mine for over three weeks now and have loved every minute watching the beautiful picture both in 3d and 2d. For those waiting on the fence you are missing a great projector. Its only limitation is in placement. Watching 3d is a great family experience. The projector is very bright on my 114 inch Seymour screen and the picture colorful and sharp. I cannot blame those who chose to wait over price or placement issues but can the picture get much better than this on a DLP projector?

unfortunately the lack and lens shift and restrictive placement is the likely reason why there is only a handful of owners. If they put in lens shift, this would be one very popular projector.

How are the included glasses? what content have you seen so far in 3D? Any detection of rainbow effect? it should be pretty decent with the 5x color wheel speed.

I was going to pick this up for 2D TV watching & 3D viewing (saving my JVC RS50's precious lamp hours for critical bluray viewing) but I can't use it with my HP screen. It would need to be mounted near eye level for maximum gain on the screen.
post #398 of 551
Interesting that there are so few complaints about the Sharp except for positioning issues. In answer to your questions I cannot detect any rainbow effects and I am sensitive to them. The 3d glasses included are perfect for the projector and additional glasses can be found for under $100 on the web. I tried xpand 103 glasses and found they gave a rose colored tint to the picture. The Sharp glasses work best. The only unknown seems to be how long the brightness of the bulb will last. Cannot be as bad as the JVCs.
post #399 of 551
@zombie10k, I've watched 3D Blu-rays and Directv broadcasts without a hint of ghosting. I put in MvA and Despicable Me and I couldn't detect a hair of ghosting. Even on Directv broadcasts where I could see a little ghosting on my plasma, it is eliminated on the Sharp. The only complaint I have about the Sharp glasses is that they are a little heavy. Watched Guardians of Gahoole and at the end of the movie we all had nice little marks on our noses from the nose piece. Oh the price we pay for better than movie theater 3D.

Edit: Oh yeah, my first projector was a Sharp 720P DLP and I was always distracted by the rainbow effect. I was a little worried about seeing that on this unit. I was relieved that there are no rainbows with the 17000.
post #400 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE DU3C3 View Post

@zombie10k, I've watched 3D Blu-rays and Directv broadcasts without a hint of ghosting. I put in MvA and Despicable Me and I couldn't detect a hair of ghosting. Even on Directv broadcasts where I could see a little ghosting on my plasma, it is eliminated on the Sharp. The only complaint I have about the Sharp glasses is that they are a little heavy. Watched Guardians of Gahoole and at the end of the movie we all had nice little marks on our noses from the nose piece. Oh the price we pay for better than movie theater 3D.

Edit: Oh yeah, my first projector was a Sharp 720P DLP and I was always distracted by the rainbow effect. I was a little worried about seeing that on this unit. I was relieved that there are no rainbows with the 17000.

So how do the black levels/contrast in 2d compare to the jvc RS40? has anybody compared these 2 projectors?
post #401 of 551
Quote:


And that Panasonic unit will likely be an Epson based LCoS unit with lens memory........Tasty!

No word from Panasonic yet but we are almost sure they will be coming out with something soon. Probably will be a Lcos but there is no law that since it couldnt be DLP.

The problem with DLP is that with RPTV DLP having disappeared from the market, there is no incentive to do research on new DLP chips as most of the money was in RPTV
post #402 of 551
"If they put in lens shift, this would be one very popular projector."
The price would still be way out of line. Double the price for 3D just doesn't work for some of us. The 720p 3D projectors have higher brightness and only a $300 premium for 3D over their 2D counterpart (based on the expected price difference for the acer 5360bd, or an optoma 3d-xl converter box). For the price of the sharp I will do a dual projector passive projection system. I get that the sharp makes 3D a lot simpler, having one projector and such. If they added lens shift/better zoom, it would be a lot more tempting I guess. If they added a DL-DVI port to accept 1080p120 for nVidia 3D vision they would really sell a ton of them.
post #403 of 551
Widescreen Review has an excellent review of the Sharp in their May/June issue and rates its black levels close to their reference Sony VW60. They found the 3d quality outstanding.
post #404 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

"If they put in lens shift, this would be one very popular projector."
The price would still be way out of line. Double the price for 3D just doesn't work for some of us. The 720p 3D projectors have higher brightness and only a $300 premium for 3D over their 2D counterpart (based on the expected price difference for the acer 5360bd, or an optoma 3d-xl converter box). For the price of the sharp I will do a dual projector passive projection system. I get that the sharp makes 3D a lot simpler, having one projector and such. If they added lens shift/better zoom, it would be a lot more tempting I guess. If they added a DL-DVI port to accept 1080p120 for nVidia 3D vision they would really sell a ton of them.

I had a 720p DLP projector and there is no comparison in terms of picture quality in 2d with the Sharp. To me it is worth the extra expense and 3D just adds to my satisfaction considering the Sharp is all in one--emitter and glasses included in the price. See it with your own eyes and you will believe...
post #405 of 551
Oh, yeah, no way I would use my acer 5360 for 2D. It is blindingly bright on my Vutec Silverstar. That, of course, is what makes it awesome for 3D. The light loss from 3D still leaves me with a nice bright 3D image. I keep a seperate projector for 2D. You really need more than twice the brightness for 3D. I am sure the sharp is a nice compromise. I just don't want to compromise. Of course, a seperate high power screen to use with the Sharp just for 3D might be a good solution too.
post #406 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Hutnicki View Post

The problem with DLP is that with RPTV DLP having disappeared from the market, there is no incentive to do research on new DLP chips as most of the money was in RPTV

Where are you getting your DLP market sales numbers from?

An article is Dallas Business Journal said TI's DLPs sales grew by 35.5% percent last year.

“HDTVs have never been the largest revenue generators for DLP,” Kent Novak’s (General Manager of DLP Products) email said. “While we continue to support (the HDTV) business, our future investments will be toward increasing our market share leadership in front projection, digital cinema and pico projectors.”

Dallas Business Journal TI DLP Article

BTW, sorry to post this twice, but I felt it necessary to nip these rumors in the bud.

Michael
post #407 of 551
Any word on the Movie mode for anamorphic lenses re: my previous post and zooming not stretching image for lens?

Have watched a few 3D movies now. All I can say is wow. I install 3D cinema projectors for work and the sharp 3D blew me away!

There is No image crosstalk WHATSOEVER! Its brightness is quite watchable on my 4 meter screen also which I was very concerned about.

I have to agree with other users that the DLP 3D is much better than Lcos, I just don't trust dead pixels from previous bad experiences with lcd projectors. My last proj was DLP too and it looks just as good today as it did the day I opened it with sealed light path, not a speck of dust on the image at all unlike my old lcd which was covered.

The 5x speed color wheel is bearable, I am very prone to rainbow effect and although my last dlp was 6x speed this 5 x speed is pretty much just as good.

Although the proj placement is tight this proj is VERY quite also so having it close to viewer is not a problem.

Would have waited for the panasonic but hearing that it wasn't going to be DLP I couldn't pass up the sharp atm.
post #408 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE DU3C3 View Post
Oh the price we pay for better than movie theater 3D.
Your post reminded me of this article.

http://www.***************.com/showt...hp?tid/146165/

The home movie watching experience is much better than the theater now.
post #409 of 551
how does the picture quality, black level, and overall contrast compare on the sharp to the jvc x3/rs40, sony vw90, or the mitsu hc9000c? anyone had them head to head?
post #410 of 551
I might get the Sharp. How is sharps warranty? Will it be covered in Canada too if I buy from AVS?

Can anyone PM the price they got it for from AVS? I checked the AVS store but the price seems to be the same as everywhere else. Will I get a better deal if I talk to someone on the phone?
post #411 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

I might get the Sharp. How is sharps warranty? Will it be covered in Canada too if I buy from AVS?

Can anyone PM the price they got it for from AVS? I checked the AVS store but the price seems to be the same as everywhere else. Will I get a better deal if I talk to someone on the phone?

I think this projector is out for me, and the reason is that they don't even offer it in canada! i don't feel like sending back the unit to the USA if there are issues with it. Not only that, but the bulb seems to be ridiculous expensive, and if i have to get it from the USA, add duty and brokerage to that.

I don't understand why sharp canada won't offer this product to us here up north. Lame. And this i think was my best option. Brighter (and seemingly more reliable) than the JVC X3, and way less than either the mitsubishi or sony 3d units.
post #412 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

I might get the Sharp. How is sharps warranty? Will it be covered in Canada too if I buy from AVS?

Can anyone PM the price they got it for from AVS? I checked the AVS store but the price seems to be the same as everywhere else. Will I get a better deal if I talk to someone on the phone?

I can't comment on the warranty thing - you might need to scour Sharp USA's website to see what that says.

AVS frowns upon people sharing the pricing they got via PM. I wil say that the current in-cart price from Projector People (a forum sponsor) is less than what I paid a few months back from AVS, and on top of that includes a "free" BD player - not surprising, prices drop. And I would bet that AVS will be competitive with PP.

Yes, you get your best pricing when you speak with someone directly at AVS.

shinksma
post #413 of 551
is the projector central calculator accurate in regard to where I have to place the Sharp? It's claiming I would have to mount it 11.2" above the top of my screen.

I have the HP screen so this is far from the ideal location, but if it's bright enough it might be ok. I don't have ~12" thought above the screen though..
post #414 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

is the projector central calculator accurate in regard to where I have to place the Sharp? It's claiming I would have to mount it 11.2" above the top of my screen.

I have the HP screen so this is far from the ideal location, but if it's bright enough it might be ok. I don't have ~12" thought above the screen though..

According to your profile you have a 142" screen, so 12" above would be about right. I had to mount my 17K a little more than 8" above the top of my 106" screen.

That is the one major limitation of this model that fortunately worked out perfectly for my HT: no lens shift. I can understand none left or right, but even just a little up and down would make this so much more useful for many people. My BenQ W5000 has a straight-shot (i.e no offset) lens with up/down image shift of a relatively large amount (50%?), so it isn't like it is impossible for DLP to have lens shift.

shinksma
post #415 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

is the projector central calculator accurate in regard to where I have to place the Sharp? It's claiming I would have to mount it 11.2" above the top of my screen.

I have the HP screen so this is far from the ideal location, but if it's bright enough it might be ok. I don't have ~12" thought above the screen though..

This is also what i was wondering. The no lens shift is definitely not ideal for a high power screen... but what kind of lumens would you all get with this kind of angle?
post #416 of 551
Well the BB site says this PJ is coming soon and it looks like it will do so at a healthy price tag there. Now if they set up a display in their stores and show 3d I have not doubt they will sell a bunch even at that premium.

I am still of the opinion that the 1700 belongs in the under $3k section but what do I know except how I choose to spend my money. On a positive note it is getting real close to the 3k mark.
post #417 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

This is also what i was wondering. The no lens shift is definitely not ideal for a high power screen... but what kind of lumens would you all get with this kind of angle?

I'm not sure, I'm still trying to figure out why they decided to make this so difficult to put in the correct position. I do not have 12" above the screen (my screen is quite large @ 142") - so would it just digitally keystone correct itself if it's not in the exact position?

it looks like it can be 'floor mounted' 12" below my screen. I might be able to get away with that... but imagine a projector, literally sitting on floor right in front of my feet.

This is a bummer, I know what ghost free 3D looks via my Acer 720P 3D DLP compared to my RS50 and this would have been a perfect 1080P 3D projector if they just put in a manual lens shift.
post #418 of 551
Hi,
I must say, that compared to ANY other 3D device I have seen, the sharp is way superrior when it comes to 3D image :-)

and it give a great image in 2D as well, I can't compare sbs with a jvc or sony, but if I was not intrested in 3D at all, I would have kept my infocus in82.(edit: not because it's not good in (edit: typo not 3D but 2D) 2D, but there probably those who are better at 2D in this price range)

I have added screenshot of CMS and Greyscale, this is as close as I have been able to get it... most likely due to my very limited calibrating capabileties.
All measurements are taken of my BD 1.4 gen 3 screen.


Calibration has been made through a Lumagen RadianceMini-3D... probably the best buy I ever had....

Regards
Daniel
LL
LL
post #419 of 551
I just read this entire thread, a bit of a long read (some people mumbling too much technical jargon that 80% of us don't have time to follow).

Art @ pjreviews.com says the black levels are as good or better than the Panny 4000 or Sanyo z4000 (that is hard to believe, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt). Having used many recent model projectors and compared black levels, perhaps I can add a black level perspective for this projector. At the Sanyo's level of blacks (and therefore the Sharp's z17000's black levels), you don't really need it any darker, I mean sure it doesn't hurt, but the space scenes do you give that TRUE black feeling even at this level of blacks. In comparison, let's take a Mits hc4000 or an Epson 8350, at the Epson's or Mits's level of blacks, I never could get that TRUE BLACK space feeling, even after some lamp wear. This is easily and especially noticed by running my Blurays from the series "The Universe" which uses some computer renderings that put an absolute black background RENDERED with stars in it.

I think the most interesting thing would be if any former owners of the Sharp z15000 now have a Sharp z17000 and can compare the two in 2D, or if any Sharp owners can compare it with a former DLP. One member stated that it looks very similar to the Benq w5000, ok I can follow that (somewhat).

Art says the quality is about the same between the 15000 and 17000, but I noticed a
brighter image and slightly different calibrations in his own review, which makes me wonder.

Overall, it appears we have a very well designed 3D projector that is bright enough, but could use some gain to help it out after some lamp wear for 3D. According to the reviewers and owners in this thread, it appears this projector is UNMATCHED at 3D performance overall (even if comparing higher priced projectors). Hence, it should have better 3D than most (if not all) of its current 3D competitors, and as a BONUS, the 2D quality for bright scene POP that should surpass MOST, if not all, LCD projectors (again, for bright scene POP).

The question remains how does this projector compare in 2D vs. a Mits hc4000 or an Infocus sp8602, that would be interesting to know. Also often overlooked and equally as important is how the projector's colors and skin tones come out in a perceivable fashion, as well as how it handles noise (it seems to do fairly well though).

My best WILD guess is that the Mits hc4000 and Infocus sp8602 will beat it slightly in bright scene POP, but the Sharp will come back with the darker blacks than the Mits to be kind of like a POOR MAN's sp8602 for 2D viewing (given it actually costs the same as the NON-3D Infocus sp8602). Would love to see one of these things in person. Let me say I would not worry about black levels at all with this projector for 2D viewing if they can match or beat a Sanyo z4000's blacks. However, I would note that some previous reviews of the Sharp 15000 vs. the Panny 4000 and Sanyo 4000 state that the Sharp's blacks do not quite live up to these projectors, but despite which reviewer is RIGHT or WRONG, it sounds like the Sharp z17000's black levels are just good enough not to worry either way.
post #420 of 551
Another nice review of the Sharp 17000 can be found at the following link. It also mentions briefly the difference with the Sharp 15000.
http://www.avhub.com.au/index.php/Pr...projector.html
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