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Sharp xv-z17000 : New dlp full hd 3d projector - Page 4

post #91 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for the response.

Do you usually watch in high lamp mode?

Larry

Yes, everything in 'natural' mode. Not sure how much help this will be as I hardly watch in an ideal setup and these were taken with an iphone but these might give you some indication of the color differences in the high lamp modes. (The area surrounding the image looks darker as the camera adjusted to the brightness of the projector)
Natural: (860 lumens)

Dynamic (just over 1000 lumens)

ambient light on opposite side of room. The lamp is about 14' from screen (screen = white wall :-) )
post #92 of 551
Smile like you mean it
post #93 of 551
OK, so I have essentially eliminated this PJ from consideration mainly due to the inflexibility for location, but I am curious to compare pricing and other vital stats with the RS40. Is this PJ available anywhere for purchase, and any solid info vis-a-vis a user manual or something?

shinksma
post #94 of 551
Mmm, DBox and 3D would be awesome together. Wish you were anywhere near Phoenix, AZ.
post #95 of 551
Hi,

Thanks for the response.

What particular Stewart screen material did you use?

My limited understanding is that there is always a significant reduction in brightness when going from 2D to 3D viewing because there is a 75% or more reduction in light reaching the viewer's eyes as a result of using the 3D glasses. The 3D mode trys to partially compensate for this loss in brightness by switching to a mode that produces more lumens at the expense of color accuracy.

Can you please comment on the placement flexibility? Is it like the Z15000 in that the difference in the minimum and maximum throw is about 24"?

Thanks again.

Larry
post #96 of 551
The review is up at Projectorreviews
http://www.projectorreviews.com/shar...7000/index.php

Most of the screenshots aren't up yet, they all seem to be the Epson 8700ub, the color temperatures for the different brightness modes look quite a bit different from the Z15000.

Z15000 - Natural= 861 @ 6757
Z17000 - Natural= 921 @ 7832

The Movie modes seem to be much closer to 6500 and they pretty much doubled the lumen output but still only 670 lumens. I am betting that the 1000 lumens he gets with bright boost and high brite iris changes those color measurements. Overall though he seems pretty positive
post #97 of 551
Art still claims he's seeing some cross-talk with a single chip 3D DLP. If so, then maybe the 720p 3D DLPs are here to stay, since they exhibit none as verified time and time again by experienced hobbyists on this forum.

He states that it just has enough lumens for 3D on a 100" screen. That's why something like the Da-lite HP screen is so important for 3D viewing, although many here are simply not willing to put the extra physical effort into accommodating it or bother with the mental gymnastics required to place the projector in a location that maximizes the screen's gain - their loss if 3D is important to them! Having a bright, punchy 3D image is worth the extra sweat!

If black levels are good in 2D then they should be excellent in 3D mode with glasses on.

I'll be interested to see how the RS-40 stacks up against it in 3D mode. Do his comments about the Sharp's colour accuracy, colour temperature and gamma hold up for 3D mode? If so, then this may be where the Sharp has an advantage over the JVCs, since they skew those settings to gain image brightness for 3D.

I would expect 3D competition from Panasonic and Epson in the next six months or so. Hopefully we'll have many more 3D products to choose from shortly. I'm sticking to my 720p 3D DLP, which BTW I love for 3D, for now and I'll wait a little while longer to see how this plays out.
post #98 of 551
Hi Guys. Just a quick aslert that AV Science sells this new model and there is good availability for quick shipment. If you are considering purchasing this projector please give me a call at 240 876 2536 or call any other member of the AV Science sales team. You want be sorry and buy purchasing from AV Science you will be providing support for continuation of the AV Science forum. Speaking for the whole AV Science sales team, we look forward to talking with you and assisting you in whatever way possible. At AVS, customer service is our most important product.
post #99 of 551
Quote:
OK, so I have essentially eliminated this PJ from consideration mainly due to the inflexibility for location, but I am curious to compare pricing and other vital stats with the RS40. Is this PJ available anywhere for purchase, and any solid info vis-a-vis a user manual or something?



shinksma

You could try calling us. We sell both projectors
post #100 of 551
And we have the Sharp available for almost immediate shipment. Hopefully, we will have 40s available for new orders shortly but we have a truck load of 40 back orders to fill first.
post #101 of 551
can someone explain to me how to figure out if this pj would work in my theater setup. I am not really sure what to measure and what throw distance is.
post #102 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by killervette View Post

can someone explain to me how to figure out if this pj would work in my theater setup. I am not really sure what to measure and what throw distance is.

Throw distance is the horizontal distance from the front of the projector's lens to the screen.
post #103 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

Throw distance is the horizontal distance from the front of the projector's lens to the screen.

ok, so is there a calculation i can do to see if the pj would work?
post #104 of 551
I wonder if you could use the 15000 model since they are pretty much the same. There is a projector claculator for it at pj central.
post #105 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I wonder if you could use the 15000 model since they are pretty much the same. There is a projector claculator for it at pj central.

so it seems to make a 100" diagonal, i will need the pj around 10-12 feet from the screen and 7.8" off the ceiling. does that make sense?
post #106 of 551
Yeah, thats sounds about the same as the Z15000, I have mine about 11' feet back from the screen. I actually mine under a coffee table projecting upwards, works pretty well there.
post #107 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by danieledmunds View Post

Yeah, thats sounds about the same as the Z15000, I have mine about 11' feet back from the screen. I actually mine under a coffee table projecting upwards, works pretty well there.

great, thanks
post #108 of 551
from projectorreviews review of the 17000:
horizontal distance from screen:
For a 100 inch, 16:9 aspect ratio screen, you can place the projector (measured from front of lens) as close as 10 feet, 4 inches but only as far back as 11 feet, 11 inches.
vertical distance from top of screen:
For a 100 inch screen the center of the lens needs to be just a fraction less than 8 inches above the top of the screen surface.
post #109 of 551
Projector Review's Sharp 17000 review reaches a wrong conclusion because of Art's bias towards gray screens. For 3D projectors, grey screens are a marriage made in hell. Art admits as much, yet still publishes the review!
------
"The 100" high contrast gray in my theater right now, really has been a marginal match up for the Sharp when in 3D. When I was doing the photo shoot, and other viewing down in the testing room, I was filling the 106" Carada Briliant White. That looked a bit better.

Not being a fan of the really high gain screens - 2.0 gain or higher, I don't have one around, but I can see where they just might be worth considering in some situations.

I often recommend high contrast gray screens lowering black levels, but since the Sharp's black levels are already pretty impressive, the higher gain will be more important for most.

Those real high gain screens have a narrow viewing cone, that is, you want to be sitting between the edges of the screen, close to the center. Even in the center with a high gain screen you will normally notice some dimming in the corners, but mostly on nice bright scenes, maybe a blue sky, or clouds. Those screens should also be good at dealing with some side ambient light, and/or allow you a brighter image or larger screen.

For most people I expect pairing with something between a 1.3 and 2+ gain, will make the most sense."
------------

Technically speaking no professional reviewer has any business reviewing a 3D projector with a gray screen. (gray screens were a band-aid answer for inferior LCD black levels. Why anyone still uses them is questionable).

To read Art's grudgingly, self-admitted poor setup of a fine 3D projector, then whine being forced to change to something which improve the picture quality is beyond belief.
Now he plans to get a hugely expensive, polarized high-gain silver screen, when the DLP light is not polarized to begin with. (Then he will whine about the sub-standard 2D picture quality).
A reasonable price, high-gain white screen would seem just the "hot ticket" but is ignored. Go figure!
post #110 of 551
I am planning to Review one with my "3D friendly" set up.
post #111 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I am planning to Review one with my "3D friendly" set up.

I'm looking forward to this. Keep 'em coming! I have to admit I admire your restraint in the "other" thread, unless of course, most of your posts, like mine, were deleted by the mods.
post #112 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

Projector Review's Sharp 17000 review reaches a wrong conclusion because of Art's bias towards gray screens. For 3D projectors, grey screens are a marriage made in hell. Art admits as much, yet still publishes the review!

Technically speaking no professional reviewer has any business reviewing a 3D projector with a gray screen. (gray screens were a band-aid answer for inferior LCD black levels. Why anyone still uses them is questionable).

To read Art's grudgingly, self-admitted poor setup of a fine 3D projector, then whine being forced to change to something which improve the picture quality is beyond belief.

Now he plans to get a hugely expensive, polarized high-gain silver screen, when the DLP light is not polarized to begin with. (Then he will whine about the sub-standard 2D picture quality).
A reasonable price, high-gain white screen would seem just the "hot ticket" but is ignored. Go figure!

Hi Hi,

I agree that Art's preliminary review is suspect in the 3D area due to his screen selection, but I'm wondering whether the problem is as much that it was a low gain screen as being grey. Can you elaborate why grey screens are not suitable?

Thanks.

Regardless, he plans on trying other perhaps more compatible screens.

Here's a quote from his blog:

Quote:


I should note, my theater still has a temporary screen – a 100 inch diagonal 16:9 Elite HC gray surface. I don’t think it’s ideal for even active glasses 3D such as the Sharp. I will be trying out the projector on several other screens, including the Carada Brilliant White, and the Da-lite 3D surface. If the Stewart silver 3D screen arrives on time, that one too (it should be here before Superbowl).

Larry
post #113 of 551
Like a marriage made in hell?

They dress up a joint to make it look like heaven. Sooner or later it becomes hell but with the right constitution you get used to what some might describe as a adverse environmental conditions. Besides you probably aren't an angel either.
post #114 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

For 3D projectors, grey screens are a marriage made in hell. Art admits as much, yet still publishes the review!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Like a marriage made in hell?

They dress up a joint to make it look like heaven. Sooner or later it becomes hell but with the right constitution you get used to what some might describe as a adverse environmental conditions.

Hi Mark,

I'm not sure I follow your response.

Are you saying that grey screens are merely an acquired taste? Or are you saying that in rooms with ambient light a grey screen might make sense?

I have read a number of postings expressing a negative opinion regarding using grey screens with high contrast projectors. While I assume that in light controlled rooms there is less necessity for grey screens to help with contrast, but with sufficient gain can't a grey screen still provide adequate results with 3D projectors?

Thanks.

Larry
post #115 of 551
Hi Larry. No I am just commenting on the analogy to a marriage made in hell not re grey screens.

I think certain gray screens can very will be a fine choice to deal with certain problems. Though I do thing with the lowering of black ref values in newer projectors, going to low gain gray screen just to improve blacks is not justified.
post #116 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Hi Larry. No I am just commenting on the analogy to a marriage made in hell not re grey screens.

I think certain gray screens can very will be a fine choice to deal with certain problems. Though I do thing with the lowering of black ref values in newer projectors, going to low gain gray screen just to improve blacks is not justified.

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the response.

How about higher gain grey screens with the newer, high contrast projectors? Do you think that they can provide satisfactory images?

Larry
post #117 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

Projector Review's Sharp 17000 review reaches a wrong conclusion because of Art's bias towards gray screens. For 3D projectors, grey screens are a marriage made in hell. Art admits as much, yet still publishes the review!
------
...
Even in the center with a high gain screen you will normally notice some dimming in the corners ...

Looks to me like Art is making a common error. That is, to apply issues with angular-reflective high gain screens to all high gain screens, when that issue really doesn't apply to retro-reflective screens like the Da-Lite High Power (at least not if you have the right setup for it).

Also, gray screens can have a high gain layer and the same problems as angular-reflective high gain screens even if the overall resulting gain isn't that high. I don't know how the main screen he uses gets to its gain and whether it is a higher gain layer combined with a strong gray, or a weak gray with not much of a gain layer (or could be that it is way over speced for gain).

The Carada screen he is using is likely close to 1.0 gain regardless of the spec and with the right setup he could get over twice as much gain out of a Da-Lite High Power to a couple of main seats without really having that problem he suggested above. However, the Sharp doesn't look like the best fit for the High Power because of its large fixed offset. I see it largely as a business type projector with 3D added on for about a $3k surcharge. If somebody releases a 3D DLP with lens shift that could make a much better fit with a High Power for 3D.

Although it is possible that some people will find that putting the Sharp lower and tilting it up and then using the keystoning feature with a Da-Lite High Power screen would be a good way for 3D.

--Darin
post #118 of 551
They could also tilt the screen down a bit rather than use keystone.
post #119 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

Also, gray screens can have a high gain layer and the same problems as angular-reflective high gain screens even if the overall resulting gain isn't that high. I don't know how the main screen he uses gets to its gain and whether it is a higher gain layer combined with a strong gray, or a weak gray with not much of a gain layer (or could be that it is way over speced for gain).

Hi Darin,

Thanks for your remarks.

Here's an excerpt from another blog entry by Art describing the screen he used to get some preliminary impressions of the JVC RS60. It is the same screen he used to do the preliminary review of the Sharp.

Quote:


Remember this is an old Elite HC Grey screen, one I estimated the gain to be 0.9 when it was reviewed 4+ years ago.

I don't know much about this subject, but I'm fairly sure that a negative gain screen, regardless of it's contrast characteristics, isn't going to help in 3D viewing.

Larry
post #120 of 551
Darin. I think not the best fit is just a tad understated.

Re gain screens. Obviously the higher the gain, the bnrighter the image and 3D images are necessarily quite dim because of the method of 3D presentation and the rather limited output of light in various machines in the price class of this forum. An advantage of the Sharp is higher light output than the average HT projector here. I see little difference in a gain difference of say 0.1. The ft lamberts may change by 10%. The higher the lumens, the less impact a small changre in screen gain will appear to your eyes though if you start with a really low 3D ft lamberts, a small increase in gain may be very significant.

I strongly recommend against ever using electronic keystone etc adjustment.

Every screen has pros and cons. Most screens are angular reflective and there are many options to fill most needs. There is no free lunch. Remember every scren with a gain greater than 1.0, drops from maximum gain as one movers horizontally from screen center. Even the HP? Duh Ya. Everyone out there. Screens are passive devices. They don't amplify light. The condense it and direct the concentrated light in certain directions. If the gain is less than one, they suck up light across the spectrum, making blacks better but making whites less bright. There are many factors that go into selecting the best screen for you. Too often in forums all the counts is brightness and the fact that I bought it and so should yo. Don't you want to be as happy as I am. Screens are a complicated subject involving parameters not yet specified by screen companies.
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