The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 43

Anyone know where a person can get the 4311 or A100 in Canada?

Send that guy back to his own house!
You are correct. PLIIx just matrixes the rear 2 from the surrounds, it does not "downsample".

PLIIz = height speakers, not rear surrounds

You are thinking of PLIIx.

Anyway, PLIIx/z does NOT in any way "downsample" the audio. When using PLIIx to simulate rear surrounds, the front 3.1 channels are untouched -- the only thing it does is matrix the two surround channels into 4.

no need to wait, I answered you about two hours ago!

CRAP!!!!

I SO wanted this to NOT be true!

I am coming from a Harman Kardon AVR and everyone that owns a Harman Kardon does because of its "warm" sound...

Several people told me that coming from a Harman Kardon to a Denon or other AVRs I will notice that the sound is "thin" and not as warm...

I SO wanted this to NOT be true!

I was hoping that the Audyssey would "open" the sound up and make it more spacious and warm...

I am extremely bummed right now...

Ummmm, you are basing this one one guys experience who is comparing to an Onkyo and not an HK? Seems a bit wacky to me. Maybe you could listen to one and see?
just a thought...
Chris

A couple thoughts:

I am not trying to invalidate jmalto's perceptions, however he just installed it and started to tweak 24hrs ago. It is possible that there is something in one of his settings that 2 weeks from now he will find that fixes what he is hearing. It's not like there a huge wealth of information yet, tricks and fixes that someone purchasing a 6 month old unit would have to refer to.

jmalto - without to many other changes, try taking your SBL and SBR completely out of the picture. Disconnect them and re-run Audyssey. Run 5.1 for a while and see if this "thin" sound goes away. Generally what most people perceive as thin sound is merely EQ applied by the "warm" products that is not applied by the so called "bright/thin" ones. A lot of folks think this "thin/bright" is a lack of power, if it still sounds thin in 5.1, it's likely just EQ that you are accustom to, because 5.1 *should* provide plenty of power with *some* certainty (not 100%).

guys picked mine up tonight. After getting the runnnaround an tons of nisinformation from EE and a couple of other guys out ther I talked to Frank from AVES he posted an ad in classifieds on the fourm under receivers. I bought from him on Tuesday and was able to pick it up tonight decent deal and all. It could have been shipped but I chose to pick it up. Real nice dude on the level and one of the best purchase experiences Ive had. I just got it home a little while ago. Opened it up and am calling it a night setting up 11.2 tommorow afternoon. Comming from the big Onkyo 5007 beast the 4311 appears a bit lighter and more conservative. Especially for an almost flagship Dennon but a very nice looking receiver. I do think its going to take a bit of trial and error before It settles in. Even before setting it up I think just reading through this thread I have picked up some pointers. I will be using it as a pre pro using none of the internal amps.

Hey guys. I work at a Magnolia Home Theater and we just got the 4311 in stock so I was going to give my initial impressions.

The onscreen GUI is kinda a Sony knock off but it was easy enough to navigate.

The pre-amp mode/11 ch mode. Cool feature in 11 ch mode you can pick either the height channels, or the mains to power from an external amp. Pre-amp mode all amps are off or you can power zone 2/3 with 4311.

SQ the 4311 was connected to a pair of B&W CM9's and a B&W sub. All the listening I did was in pure-direct mode. I did about 10 min of listening with John Legend/The roots. In the few minutes i was listening it sounded pretty sweet (although I had no way of doing any direct comparisons). The one complaint I had was it sounded really bright. Although I think that was mostly the B&W's and there was no Audyssey being used.

This is why it's better to demo a Denon AVR at a boutique hi-fi shop as Best Buys/Magnolias don't run AUTO SETUP so you don't get the Audyssey experience.

We have to move a few things around and rewire the setup then I'll run audyssey.

I need to qualify the clicks, it was and is while using HDMI from a PC with an internal ATI 5700 Graphic card. My 4810 did not click so often. The 3311 does on any signal change. It looks like no one has tried the 4311 with an ATI/PC. Also, it's not like a big deal except it sounds like my 5 year old son popping his tongue every couple of seconds. My 4311 won't be here till Tuesday. Bummer.

Well, this comment is not uncommon. If Denon is slammed anywhere it is regards to bad network cards and skimpy wimpy amps. solution is easy, external power for the fronts. After all, here is my take. There is no pre front under - let's say $10K that does what the 4311 does, just go get some more go juice and you're good to go.

Too bad i want to buy a receiver for networking and powering my speakers

Crazy as this may sound, that is exactly what is not important to me. networking is one really lame reason to own a receiver. You have so many better, easier, faster, cheaper, sleeker just flat out er i-er options than a Receiver. power is stupid cheap. Just go to CraigsList, Flea Bay, or heck your garage and find a couple good old world/old school external amps to augment the real or perceived lack of gumption on your receivers power section. Crap.... Just get an old Carver/B&K/Arcam/you choose amp to up your happiness quotient. Or buy an Outlaw/Emotiva/whatever new amp.

What I want is a receiver that switches without a single glitch, provides world class and up to date EQ functions, offers really cool upscaling to totally nut job immersive sound, gives me pass through 3D (really don't know why other than future proofing)' and can upgrade itself via firmWare changes easily and after I've downed a bottle of quality vino.

It's cool to ad I-Pad connectivity, all the cool but totally unneeded network functionality and gold gizmo plating. Really, a $100 WD Live box does all this network crap for less and better.

So....... I want decent power, awesome care free switching, Audyssey DSX, Dynamic Volume and that's it.

If Denon ever reads this thread.......focus on switching and sound and make the beast play every codec and I am a happy camper.....

Ok, PLEASE don't jump down my throat...

I am trying to understand this just as much as anyone...

But isn't that ONE of the main reasons people buy an AVR instead of separates?

So they don't have to go buy external amps and other components in order to make a system?

And I am all for world-class and up-to-date EQ functions, but give me some power and a good sound to start with before applying the EQ functions...

I guess that is what I am looking for...

Just my 2 cents...

I'm upgrading from a Onkyo 805. It seems like the 4311ci has a much weaker amp than this $600 (now $400) receiver. It's just not something I understand, considering the 4311ci cost four times as much the Onkyo 805. Sure it has much better features, but for four times as much, nothing should be a downgrade. Onkyo claims the 805 has 135W/channel. While the 4311ci has 140W/channel.

The description of the 4311ci claims the receiver can do 140W into all 9.2 channels... which we all know isn't true.

If I hear any "brightness" I will probably send this back. I don't have a amp, nor do I have the money to buy one after spending $1500 on a receiver that should be able to supply enough power to my very efficient speakers in 9.1, as advertised. My receiver is coming next week, and frankly I am very worried.

What you wrote is true but only because the two subwoofer outputs are not powered at all. However, the Denon statement is also true. Each amp is capable of 140w. It makes no claim about meeting that rating when more than one channel is operating.

That's too cute by half...

Thanks--it got me to realize I botched my post. Now fixed.

[quote=jmalto;19270616]Alright some initial thoughts for tonight.

The biggest disappointment of the night for me is after you run Audyssey if you change ANYTHING that Audyssey set it turns off Dynamic EQ and XT32 EQ! I am hoping I am just missing something here but so far I can re-produce this behavior. After calibration it set my crossovers way too high and when I adjusted the levels on my speakers with my galaxy MIC after I noticed XT32 and Dynamic EQ were off. Every time I tried to set the speaker config and levels the way I prefer it told me to run auto-setup. I did the restore function from the Audyssey menu and low and behold XT32 was back on and all the other settings I *DIDN'T* want. I changed them again and XT32 disabled itself and would not let me re-engage it. Audyssey is also telling me my Front and Center channel speakers are not in-phase and to check them vs I am 100% positive they are wired correctly. I did not have this issue with the Onkyo so I am not sure if this is a bug or it is something else.

--------------------

I noticed exact same behaviour with audessy on AVR-991. Probably its the new audessy?

I've been using all Onkyo models (5007, 3007)

My gear
Kef iq90
iq60
iq70 rear
SVS-10nsd

at least you guys get your 4311's NOW.. We have to wait until mid/end NOV

/cry

I think either way still sucks. The only way to really evaluate ANY of this stuff WELL is in your own room with your own speakers.

I had the XPA-5 with a Pio SC-27. I didn't notice a difference in the surround sound between the two. I did notice a difference when driving my fronts only. The XPA-5 opened them up nicely on two channel sound. For surrounds,the Pio will work just fine.

Hope my order from EE shipped. I never got any tracking info.

*Edit* Confirmed it did ship and got my tracking info a few moments ago. :-)

Obviously, thats why I talked more about the 11 ch mode and the GUI than the SQ...

[quote=vi_c;19277109]
This to me isn't a good thing... now you have to get the Audyssey Pro-kit to adjust it(more $$). Am i right??

I would not compare the 4311 to the monster that was the 805. My feeling is onkyo had other plans for this thing and just over did it. That amp section was ridiculous. I had one for years and kept making the same mistake you are.
I have had an equal amount of denon/onkyo AVR's in the last ten years and have never had a problem with the denon's driving my deftech or any other speaker. Even all channels driven in a fairly large 22x22 room wide open to 2 other rooms. The content today just doesn't require that much power. If the amp sections in the 4311 is on par with that of the 3311\\3310 or even 4810 you will be fine. Hook it up and enjoy : o )

NO. As I already posted in response to jmalto's message, that is not how Denons (or any other Audyssey-equipped receiver AFAIK) work. It has nothing to do with the "new" Audyssey.

jmalto has already confirmed that this is NOT the case with his 4311 and he is able to adjust crossovers, levels, etc. without forcing Audyssey to disable.

so either your Denon is defective / has a bug, or it is simply user error. You ABSOLUTELY can change basic speaker parameters (crossover, size, level, distance) without disabling Audyssey. The Audyssey filters are totally independent of these settings.

The only thing which disables Audyssey is adding a new speaker to your configuration, because Audyssey needs to have measured / filtered each speaker to engage its filters & processing. So if you set everything up, run Audyssey, and then start tweaking and (for example) try to add "front height" speakers in the Speaker Config, it will disable Audyssey. But just changing a crossover or a speaker volume should NOT disable Audyssey.

Frankly, I've never gotten "brightness" from a Denon amp, either the 4810, 3311, 3806 or older models. If anything, they've always sounded a bit more laid back and quite solid in the mid-range. Where previous Denon's have seemed to lack has been more to dynamic power issues and with the addition of my front towers, the ability to play as loud as the externals can. Even compared to my B&K 307 they sounded anything but bright. The high current B&K as well as the Emotiva's where more open and effortless. (I know subjective comment)

Perhaps the mentioned brightness has more to do with the Audyssey latest EQ system? I say this only because after calibrating properly on the 4810 I, and others have noted how low the subs are leveled to the mains. Many people over boost bass and the mids. I don't know if this means anything, just a thought.

And really, for most rooms and most people the internals will be fine. someone mentioned a concern with 98db speakers. In this case in particular, I can't imagine how the unit couldn't play louder than loud.