The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 436

Awesome speakers! I've got the SuperTower, the model up from you.

Go to audiocircle.com. VMPS has their own forum there, and you might be able to find someone selling something similar. Also, if you want to buy new, remember they are all available as a kit as well for substantially less money.

Getting my 4311 tomorrow. Was looking at APC as well. What do you recommend as far as surge/ battery backup?
Not to derail the thread but thought I'd ask.

Just called Denon an hour ago, they confirmed it. Newegg just hasn't been added to the website yet.

If DynEQ is not engaged, the only thing that need be done is match the levels.

I called yesterday and they confirmed for me as well with caveat as long as it is direct from Newegg, or from another authorized dealer via Newegg. I suggested to the Denon CSR that they update their webpage - he said he'd pass that on FWIW.

I was trying to get a pricematch credit for the 4311 I bought somewhere else last week and the vendor wasnt going to do it b/c they didnt see Newegg on the website (this was Sunday afternoon when Denon support was closed). I got it resolved yesterday despite the promo being expired, but it took some negotiating and the albeit empty threat to send my 4311 back and wait for another Newegg sale.

That being said, enjoying my 4311 but wishing I had more time to play around with it...

Yup.

Cool. Here's another interesting A/B. Disconnect any speakers from the 4311, run the FR/L preouts to your ext amp and hook up just the Front R/L speakers to the amp. For purposes of the test, forego DSP by using Direct mode. Switch amp asssign from NL to Preamp mode, level match and then go back and forth using short sections of familiar high SQ recordings. It's even easier if you use the very beginings of songs or if you set your player to repeat the section. Post whether you hear a difference. This tests whether preamp mode itself improves SQ.

I ended up going with the APC S15 from Vanns.

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...h-batt-back-up

I have found there is a difference at medium and high playback volumes with my external amps vs the internal amps. I use 3 XPA1 mono blocks for my L,R, C and 4 channels of an XPA-5 for my surrounds and Wides of an 11.2 configuration. First off, when you ping the system while calibrating, the pings are just much louder on the externally powered amps. Lest I get slammed, I believe this is entirely accounted for by the much greater gain of the Emotiva's at 32 db as opposed to the 4311's supposed 27db. The Emo's just are far different in gain and therefore there simply is more volume while EQing. This is verified once I take a gander at where Audyssey sets the Individual speaker levels.

Now, once calibrated, the difference is very discernible (in an entirely subjective way) as the Emo amps have a greater dynamic range and just seem more effortless and faster to respond. I don't know how one accounts for this with graphs, charts, or any other Scientific measurement. It might be as simple as looking at the storage uF of each amp. The reserve power may give the Emotiva's the capability of playing anything fairly effortlessly. My B&Ws also seem to want a higher current amp. The N805's and 803S's do dip in ohms and are known as not the easiest speaker to drive. Not the toughest, just not easy.

OK, so for me anyway, external amps are better and can add to the movie and music viewing/listening experience. It's subtle at most listening levels but does seem much more noticeable at higher volume and very dynamic material. Personally, though I would enjoy the 4311 and blow most my budget on the best speakers you can buy. Only then do I recommend you come over to the crazy side of the street and go nuts with external amps.

I am thinking of selling 2 of the XPA-1s and getting another XPA-5 for external 11 channel sound. My rack can't take another amp to get to 11 channels. Bummer.... I may just also wait for the over the top XPR-5. Did I mention I'm a bit crazy?

Drawing conclusions from non-blind A/B, even if carefully level-matched, is hazardous at best.

I understand the comment but how does one do millisecond switching double blind tests with internal vs external amps and therefore different Audyssey EQ settings in a home media room environment? I'd argue this as totally impossible with the same 4311. You can't reset Audyssey EQ fast enough to have any hearing memory. I offer my experience and opinion as subjective is all I can attest to. I have had many people over listening to both internal and external Amplification. Many people with better ears than mine all have preffered and noted the differences between the two sounds at both medium and loud volumes.

I guess this easily could be somewhat placebo. I am not above that acknowledgement and frankly am quite happy with the room as is; no need to convince anyone otherwise. I do believe the added reserve power makes the difference. Sharing one single underwhelming power supply with 9 channels is a stretch with my system. The 4311's specs show as much as power ratings plummet the more channels you engage. I am fully aware of the real world argument that one would rarely use 9 channels of an amp at the same high level for any level of time. That is until you play a Transformers flick at 0 db during a fight scene.

I am not one to buy esoteric cables, exotic power lines or even angel blessed power conditioners, but I do believe my external amplifiers are an improvement. Still though, I'd splurge on speakers first - with an emphasis on great subwoofers for movie viewing and great fronts for music. I'd then look hard at improving your room acoustics with affordable solutions. Then, and only then try an external amp.

Ugh. So I tried to use the coupon code with Newegg today, but it didn't' accept it. Sale is over. In addition, the CSR said that the coupon code will only work if the email address you put in is the same as the one they have on file for emailing you promo's. In other words, according to him, it wouldn't have worked last weekend for me, because I wasn't on their email list anyway. Hmm....

I know the forum isn't' for price talk, so I won't mention specific pricing, but assuming Newegg runs the sale again:

What would you guys buy, both from authorized dealers?

The 4311, new with a 3 yr warranty, or

The A100, refurb, one year warranty, for $100 more?

why would you spend MORE for the A100 with a worse warranty, which negates probably its most important advantage?

unless you REALLLLLLY like glossy black.

^+1 (As though bp's advice ever needs seconding.)

New 4311.....it's not a slam dunk though as most stuff that blows up on an AVR blows up right away. The A100 has much nicer speaker connects and that shiny front end. The lead feet and monk blessed capacitors are not such a big deal. Same goes the certificate. Resale may well be slightly better with the A100. Having said all that, I'd rather get the new over the refurb. You don't know where the A100s been or how it has been handled.

This thread is massive though and quite shocking how few people have had actual hardware issues or even DOA's compared to previous Denon's and many, many competing AVR's , the 4311/A100 is incredibly solid.

so, I give you a resounding "pick the 4311' er, maybe, well, then again, I guess that's the right choice, do ya think?" answer.

I have somewhat hard-to-drive Dali Helicon speakers (4 ohm, 88dB sens) situated at 3m from MLP. With the old 4310's internal amps I detected some clipping and loss of dynamics when approaching reference levels running 7.1. The 4310 is rated 6-16 ohms. The XPA5 effortlessly restored dynamics and SQ, but of course the improvement was only at volumes over MV=-15. With the 4311 (rated 4-16 ohm), I didn't do a full 7 ch test yet. But in a nonblind test driving FR/L as 2.0 full range, I couldn't distinguish the internal amps from my XPA5, or my UPA2. So I have serious doubts that spending way more on a move up the Emo chain would yield any audible results. For those maxing out internal amps, Emo XPA and UPA amps on sale are excellent bargains, but only if you need the power.

Amp testing is one of the more challenging HT A/B tests. I take Audyssey out of the equation and when possible have an assistant do the switching. Once level matched, this makes the switching faster and also allows for single BAB. But alas, good assistants are hard to come by.

As much as I would love to have purchased an AVR-A100, I don't think I would purchase the A100 in this case.

Less warranty, who knows what happened to the unit to need a refurb, and kind of like an exotic car.....so much of the desirability goes away if you aren't the first owner.

Does anyone here use the "unofficial" Android Denon Remote app?

I'm just about to join a new company and am having to trade beloved iPhone 4S for a HTC running droid and would be very frustrated if I cant control my 4311's zone 2 from out under the veranda!

It's anecdotal evidence that's at best suggestive, but very, very far from dispositive, from a scientific standpoint. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

Also,if the question is just whether level-matched internal versus external amplification is audible, Audyssey shouldn't come into it at all -- it should be turned off. And the experiment is not impossible, just unlikely to be done by a hobbyist, who won't typically have the ABX switching gear needed.

(It's also unlikely to be done by scientists, because who is going to fund that?)




Of course any comparison of amps should be done at a level where both amps are running *below their distortion thresholds* for all channels. Some amps certainly play more cleanly at higher output levels, than others. No one disputes that.

But that aside, how much of the power needed to play such a scene at reference level is due to the *low bass requirements*, versus the rest? Low bass is, of course, separately amped in most setups, by the subwoofer.

Here you go unless you missed it. I wanted to give you this too just so you know why you are getting replies like "why the hell would you choose the a100?"

Hey...just asking guys!

What was going thru my head was:

1. Is there any truth to the thought that a refurb has actually gone through more individual testing than a new unit since they had to repair it and make sure it was working perfect before resale, while new units may only get a "power on" test.

2.It's worth a little more on resale

3. The better caps give it a little more headroom.

^^^

1) technically, yes. although i think it's unlikely that they test to ensure it's "perfect". i'm more inclined to think they just test to make sure whatever was broken was fixed (if it was even broken in the first place).

2) technically, yes, although if you disclose it's a refurb, maybe no.

3) the marketing department would like you to believe that...

i'd agree with the other guys...

I'm confident that AVR-Remote will support multiple zones as well as it supports a single zone. Of course you could just use one of the three web interface variants. You don't have to have an iPhone/Touch to use the iPhone "optimized" interface, just an approximation of the screen size and resolution.

Thanks for the input, lightbox; much appreciated. I really love the Rotels, but I need the hdmi inputs and have wanted something with Audyssey for some time, so the RSP1068 has to make way. It will be tough saying goodybye, it's a fine piece.

Thanks, im hoping it fully supports the Denon Net radio and media player functions.

Got my pre-paid shipping label today for my non-functioning 4311 from Denon/Dakmart. It took a couple of business days, and I was likely a pain in the arse to dakmart (calling everyday asking about the label, done nicely)...but they came through and the unit is on its wa to Denon for repair/replace. Its 5 biz days from CA to NJ in shipping... beyond that... We'll see how long it takes.

Received my 4311ci yesterday. I spent many hours dissembling the old system and connecting the new. Everything went according to plan -- 7.1 system with pre-outs feeding an external amp which drives outdoor speakers. Programming was smooth as well. One question -- I am trying to get the Zone2 menu (on the right side of page 73 of the manual) to display on my tv.

I only have 1 tv hooked up. Zone 2 is just audio. The manual states "The ZONE2 or ZONE3 menu is displayed on the Zone2 TV." Since I do not have a Zone 2 tv hooked up, is there a way to get the menu on monitor 1?

Thanks

^^
The manual is merely indicating that the menu will "also" show up on the Zone 2 TV; however, you can access the Zone 2/3 menu via the Manual Setup menu as shown on p. 83 in your manual.

Thank you -- just so I am clear -- is it 93? I am looking at 83 and do not see what you are referring too. Thanks again.

^^
Opps! Sorry, typo .. yup 93.