The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 45

Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC

First impression on build quality or feeling. I have owned a high end yamaha, onkyo 605, VSX-21TXH, SC-07, SC-27, before this 4311. This is my first Denon. I must say how cheap its build quality is at this price. It just "feels"/looks cheap. Especially at this price point. My pioneers were waaaaay better feeling/looking. This 4311 reminds me of my Onkyo 605. This is for those that value aesthetics; Get the A100. Performance matters more to me. That being said, I have not integrated it into my gear yet. I'm happy, but I might get an A100 down the road.

Originally Posted by jmalto

Originally Posted by william06

....look forward to the newer reasonable bd players with dennon link 4 to try and match with my 4311.

Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC

^@Tyrindor: There is no denying how cheap it looks & feels. Heck, even a member's wife commented on this. There are plenty of pix of elites & yamaha on the web. I guess you never owned/seen an Elite receiver. I will not complain about the insides/weight, but the exterior's looks & ergonomics feel cheap. Buttons, knobs, faceplate, case, connections, all feel flimsy & cheap. I do value the importance of the guts more, since I bought it, but as I said, the build quality is "cheap" Doesn't "feel"/"look" like a high-end in person. Looks/feels like an entry-level reciever. Still in all the guts, tech are more important. I just put out there my initial thoughts. A100 might change "MY" view, bit not for $500 more.

Originally Posted by william06

In the beginning I also thought it a bit bright but after a few adjustments and adding dynamic eq it sounded awesome. I bellieve I never heard so much clear detail in my system before. Bass rocked. I only really watched mostly cable last night going to try to get in ironman 2 today.

Originally Posted by jmalto

At reference levels it is still more bright then my previous Onkyo's and Pioneer though and I confirmed this with a friend that knows my setup quite well last night during halftime. I would say this is the brightest receiver I've owned yet but this is just my personal experiences with my speakers so it may vary for others.

Originally Posted by william06


I came from an onkyo 5007 Big heeavy loaded with all kinds of belles and whistles. Had some issues in the beginning but worked fine since. i wanted the multieqxt32 and all 11.2 channels. I would have possable tried the 5008 but stilll you could not do the height/wides together with or without backe. I sold it and was going to by a 4810 but with 12 channesl of exteriou amplification i thought I would try the 4311 as a pre pro. I really am not sorry I like it a lot still have a lot to play with and expirement with. I think the so called lightness is due to the initiao eq with all channels running. When I swithced to x32, with dynamic volume and multi eq plIIcinema dsx it make a huge difference pleanty of warmth and depth. Made my smallish romm into a larger venue. With a lot of very rich detail. I have a lot more to try and learn on this piece. Those that want Heavy and lots more amplification etc i am sure if you wait there will be replacements of the 4810 and 5308 down the road. But I am very glad to be back with a dennon. I have an oppo 83 but look forward to the newer reasonable bd players with dennon link 4 to try and match with my 4311. Although the oppo 93 looks interesting. sorry to ramble so much . Just think those that are panning or critizing should have one and give it some time before giving it a yay or ney.

Originally Posted by Tanquen

So, why not go with the SC-37 then?

Originally Posted by eldiablos

i just hope they put more care into what is inside than the outside build quality.

Originally Posted by Pologuy

Could it be the fact that after listening to the "bright" sound, it just seemed "natural" after awhile?

Please keep us posted after you watch Ironman 2 today and other blu-rays...

I REALLY wanted this 4311!!!

But after all of the reviews that stated the sound was "thin" and "bright" I started looking at others like the Marantz 7005 which is stated to have a "full" and "warm" sound.

Please keep us posted!

Originally Posted by bakerwi

Pologuy,

What are you trying to talk yourself into or talk your self out of? I think two posters spoke of the music being bright and a third thought it was a little bright, but later stated some minor tweaking took care of that. The only way to know if you are going to like the sound of this AVR is to audition it in YOUR setup. There are other variables in the chain that could attribute to perceive brightness as well as new technology (Audyssey MultEQ XT32).

Just my $.02.


Willie

Originally Posted by mariob33

William,

How easy is it to turn the internal amps off to run the unit in pre/pro mode only? Is it a dynamic setting possible from the remote or is it a menu only setting? I'm wondering if it's possible to have both and toggle between amp on/off to do an a/b comparison? I can't seem to nail this in the manual?

Originally Posted by Tyrindor

The last few people are claiming the build quality is terrible. Care to go into more detail on why you think it looks so cheap? Pictures perhaps?



Judging by these pictures, it looks perfectly fine to me. It just weighs less and is slightly smaller, and people seem to claim that more weight and size means better build quality/power. Which isn't necessarily true...

Originally Posted by Pologuy

But after all of the reviews that stated the sound was "thin" and "bright" I started looking at others like the Marantz 7005 which is stated to have a "full" and "warm" sound.

Originally Posted by CCONKLIN1

Oh my God! If I read any more of these posts I think I will swear off this forum. "thin and bright" "full and warm".
Shouldn't it be "full and dim"? Or perhaps the Marantz might sound "obese and cold"? I once had a girlfriend like that, but I forget we are talking about RECEIVERS...
Personally I am holding out for "tastes great and less filling"......
Is no one willing to admit that EVERY SINGLE RECEIVER WILL SOUND DIFFERENT IN EVERYONE'S ROOM WITH EVERYONE'S SPEAKERS???!!!!
And, maybe....just maybe that those factors might.....and I am just guessing here....just might account for these WONDERFUL adjectives?
Of course if I actually had a 4311 I would be playing with it and not spending so much time here...
Wait...I just thought of one "hungry and hot"...that one has not been used yet!
sigh...

Originally Posted by Pologuy

Could it be the fact that after listening to the "bright" sound, it just seemed "natural" after awhile?

Please keep us posted after you watch Ironman 2 today and other blu-rays...

I REALLY wanted this 4311!!!

But after all of the reviews that stated the sound was "thin" and "bright" I started looking at others like the Marantz 7005 which is stated to have a "full" and "warm" sound.

Please keep us posted!

Originally Posted by Pologuy

Could it be the fact that after listening to the "bright" sound, it just seemed "natural" after awhile?

Please keep us posted after you watch Ironman 2 today and other blu-rays...

I REALLY wanted this 4311!!!

But after all of the reviews that stated the sound was "thin" and "bright" I started looking at others like the Marantz 7005 which is stated to have a "full" and "warm" sound.

Please keep us posted!

Originally Posted by Djoel

So those of you who have this player, or the manual..Can you turn of certain section of the amp? Like just the fronts l/r?? And leave the rear on?

Thanks

Djoel

Originally Posted by JJHXBR

I am one of the happy 4810 ownerswho opted not to wait for the 4311.
The 4311 does have some nice new features but I have no regrets in getting a 4810.

Have been following this thread closely and I'm floored at the amount of 4311 bashing going on. Very unsettling to say the least.
There has been claims of cheap DAC's used, lightweight, insufficient power, thin & bright sounding, and now cheap, generic, poor build quality. JEEZ!! WHAT NEXT??
Are we still talking about a Denon AVR???
I'm sure there is always going to be somebody unhappy about something but this is unbelievable.
Never seen such bashing on a new Denon AVR until now.
Hopefully this will turn around and we will start hearing some positive reviews for the 4311.

Originally Posted by FilmMixer

Why do you equate brighter with less full? They aren't mutually exclusive in my opinion.

In terms of build quality, the Denon's have never felt as hefty as any of the other major brands.

I've had in my room over the last 3 years:

Pioneer SC-09, SC-07 and SC-37.
Yamaha RX-Z11 and RX-Z7
Onkyo TX-NR90 and SSP-885/W4S ICE AMP
Sherwood R-972
Anthem D2/A5
Emotiva UMC-1/XPA-5
Harman Kardon AVR 7550HD

and

Denon 5805, 5308, 4308 and 4310.

Almost every piece of gear listed had a heftier weight and feel to them, along with subjectively better quality of build, than the Denon 4308 and 4310.

I am in a unique position in that I have material that I have mixed to compare on the different models.. plus the fact that part of my job is to sit in a studio for hours on end and mix, and then have the benefit of taking said mixes to various other mixing stages and theaters. Even though they are all tuned the same, no two rooms sound the same, so it's made me fairly trained in how different things affect the sound of a mix (be it room size, amp power, type of speaker system, eq, etc...)

While most people on these boards have become well accustomed to how their rooms sound, most equipment doesn't conform to set standards, so it's almost impossible to get an apples to apples comparison (even on THX certified AVR's...)

My long winded point is this:

I found the 4310 to be one of the least substantial pieces of gear I've owned.

I found the 4310 to be on par with the best of the Denon gear I've owned... easily better than all of them except the 5308

I found the 4310 to be the best of all in terms of usability, GUI, customization, etc (and on par with the Yamaha Z7 and Pioneer SC-37 in terms of video performance)...

The 4310 had a much better amp section than the 4308 (and close to the 5308.) It seems as if Denon changed the "tuning" of the entire product line for the xx10 series onwards...

It was a little lacking in power compared to the Sherwood, Yamaha's, Onkyo 905 and HK.. but it was easily on par sonically with those in terms of processing and sound quality...

At this price point, I think you have two choices for this feature set.. the Onkyo's or the Denon.

I haven't owned a Onkyo I liked (they sounded veiled and flat on both accounts..)

While the Denon 4311 can be had for 20-25% off already, I know even then it is a major investment for most.

However, you get what you pay for and if the amp section in the Denon doesn't get you where you need to go it will serve well as a preamp... but at this time, I don't think you will find a comparably priced unit with a substantially better amp section while at the same time giving you everything else the Denon does...

And before the "but I want a receiver and not separates" or "I shouldn't have to spend the extra money" comments come rolling out remember...

To me, this is looking like a best bang for the buck product in it's price class.. if you can score one even for MSRP, you are likely to outclass anything close to it at it's price point.... the Onkyo seems the only game in town that is close for the money, but I won't go there.

I can easily recommend other AVR's for those that want a powerful amp section, but none of them have what the 4311 offers in terms of video processing, DSP, usability, features, etc.. (there isn't a preamp out except the 5508 and it doesn't offer up all the bells and whistles I think the Denon does.)

For everyone, you must determine what is the most important and go from there... you can't have it all at this price point, IMO...

Remember you get what you pay for... for some, amp quality is the most important.. in my experience, I have found that amp "quality" (and almost everyone assumes "heavier" is "better") doesn't make up for less than optimal room correction or a less well designed audio section (in all honesty, if Yamaha added Audyssey to the RX-Z7 platform they would have a winner by a mile, even at $2799, and Anthem may be the one to beat in flagship AVR's when the 900 ships with ARC.)

For me it's features and sound quality of the component (weight and quality of build went out the window after experiencing the 4310).... if I need more power, I will get an amp, but suspect that my speakers in my room will do just fine with an AVR.

IMO, we all need to slow down and not be so overly jumpy when there are only a few anecdotal reports out at this time..

jmalto reported incorrect information about the inability to make changes with Audyssey engaged, and the sky fell for some... let's get some time and numbers under our belts..

I just sold my SC-37 and will have a 4311 on Thursday... we shall see.

Originally Posted by Eldiablos

I don't think it really is bashing the receiver. At least for me, it is more of disappointment of what 1500-2000 for a receiver gets as far as overall complete package. I just feel that for that much money you should get a complete package both in and outside of the unit. To me, you should get features and build quality. It is like buying a Mercedes and them giving you plastic bags as the windows and then people telling you, well you probably will have the windows rolled down a lot so you won't notice it.

Originally Posted by Eldiablos

I don't think it really is bashing the receiver. At least for me, it is more of disappointment of what 1500-2000 for a receiver gets as far as overall complete package. I just feel that for that much money you should get a complete package both in and outside of the unit. To me, you should get features and build quality. It is like buying a Mercedes and them giving you plastic bags as the windows and then people telling you, well you probably will have the windows rolled down a lot so you won't notice it.

Originally Posted by Eldiablos

At least the external build quality has been characterized as cheap and the sound of the Denon as bright from initial user reviews in the dedicated thread.

Originally Posted by Eldiablos

I don't think it really is bashing the receiver. At least for me, it is more of disappointment of what 1500-2000 for a receiver gets as far as overall complete package. To me, you should get features and build quality.

Originally Posted by DreamCatcher

Interesting.......
I don't see how any of this applies to the 4311.
It certainly will never be considered the "Mercedes" of receivers, maybe the Honda or Toyota.....
With the 4311 Denon is giving the end users Mercedes features in an Accord/Camary body.

DreamCatcher

Originally Posted by bakerwi

Eldiablos,

So what do you expect from an AVR in this price range and which AVR are you leaning towards since the Denon is probably not on your short list?

I've considered the following prior to deciding on the Denon. The Pioneer SC-37, Onkyo TX-NR5008 and the Yamaha RX-A3000, but they all had their shortcomings as far as the total package that I was looking for. The Denon was the most complete for me, but I guess we all have different ideas and opinions on what's important on an AVR in the $1,500 - $2,000 price range with no right or wrong answer.


Willie

Originally Posted by JJHXBR

Sounds an awful like bashing to me.