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The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 450

post #13471 of 23154
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug1223 View Post

What is ARC?

Audio Return Channel:

http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/d...scy=DK&slg=ENG
post #13472 of 23154
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
The higher version of Audyssey MultEQ XT32 supports dual subs whereas the lower XT version in the 7005 does not. The 4313CI which will replace the 4311CI is due out no earlier than spring 2012, and will likely be closer to MSRP $3000 as it will also replace the 4810CI.

The 4313 is also rumored to have the Audyssey Low Frequency technology and may have DTS:Neo 11. For me the low frequency stuff is worthless; Neo 11 could be anything from just the same as Audyssey multi channel ( or worse) to really really cool. The 4311 is closer to late life cycle but honestly, I have no interest in an upgrade. I have a perfectly functioning 3806 in my family room and I see no reason to update it either. This rooms acoustic blow, the windows are huge, lighting is hideous and how good can Sponge Bob ever sound? The 4311 is a solid tank of an AVR and after thousands of posts, you would be hard pressed to find a 4311 hater. Even the Onkyo owners have given up on trashing the 4311; and Denon gave good reason to trash a few recent AVR's they unleashed on us.

You will have to judge the 4311 vs some future product based on your needs/wants.

comments to original poster, not jdsmoothie as he's got it figured out.
post #13473 of 23154
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

The 4313 is also rumored to have the Audyssey Low Frequency technology and may have DTS:Neo 11. For me the low frequency stuff is worthless; Neo 11 could be anything from just the same as Audyssey multi channel ( or worse) to really really cool. The 4311 is closer to late life cycle but honestly, I have no interest in an upgrade. I have a perfectly functioning 3806 in my family room and I see no reason to update it either. This rooms acoustic blow, the windows are huge, lighting is hideous and how good can Sponge Bob ever sound? The 4311 is a solid tank of an AVR and after thousands of posts, you would be hard pressed to find a 4311 hater. Even the Onkyo owners have given up on trashing the 4311; and Denon gave good reason to trash a few recent AVR's they unleashed on us.

You will have to judge the 4311 vs some future product based on your needs/wants.

comments to original poster, not jdsmoothie as he's got it figured out.

Ill have to look up the Audyssey Low Frequency because of the fact I will have two SVSPC13 Ultras in a 14x17 space. Im putting a lot of panels in place to try and make sure I have good bass in the room so I may be interested in this.

But its also good to know that the 4311 has been a good receiver. I want to get a receiver now just os I have it but Im slowing leaning towards doing my theater as a DIY instead of hiring someone so its probably going to be a few months...
post #13474 of 23154
Quote:


Ill have to look up the Audyssey Low Frequency because of the fact I will have two SVSPC13 Ultras in a 14x17 space. Im putting a lot of panels in place to try and make sure I have good bass in the room so I may be interested in this.

I don't think you'll be interested either, Audyssey LFC = Low Frequency Containment

It's a new technology to control the frequencies that melt through walls/floors/ceiling and piss off neighbors / wives. It's not a way to make your bass better if you want to let 'er rip in a full bore HT environment; XT32 with SubEQ HT already has state-of-the-art sub correction.

Also, before you go putting in a bunch of panels.... are you actually doing this with measurements or professional help or are you just slapping panels everywhere? You don't want to overdeaden the room. And panels generally won't do much for the low frequencies of bass, they will create absorption to prevent reflections but may not actually improve the bass... for bass control you want to use bass traps in corners and/or very thick panels at trouble spots.... just in case, you may want to check with acoustics experts in the HT forum and see what they say, if you aren't doing your treatments systematically you may be spending more $$ for less results.
post #13475 of 23154
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I don't think you'll be interested either, Audyssey LFC = Low Frequency Containment

It's a new technology to control the frequencies that melt through walls/floors/ceiling and piss off neighbors / wives. It's not a way to make your bass better if you want to let 'er rip in a full bore HT environment; XT32 with SubEQ HT already has state-of-the-art sub correction.

Also, before you go putting in a bunch of panels.... are you actually doing this with measurements or professional help or are you just slapping panels everywhere? You don't want to overdeaden the room. And panels generally won't do much for the low frequencies of bass, they will create absorption to prevent reflections but may not actually improve the bass... for bass control you want to use bass traps in corners and/or very thick panels at trouble spots.... just in case, you may want to check with acoustics experts in the HT forum and see what they say, if you aren't doing your treatments systematically you may be spending more $$ for less results.

ahhh, thats right. I read about this a few weeks ago and didn't see how it would help me but when it was mentioned by name I didn't make the connection to the article I read. So yea thats of no need...I can probably do just fine for years with the current version. The air play support is a big one for me because all i have is apple products so i wanted the integration.
post #13476 of 23154
What kind of improvement should I expect if I go from a 2112ci to a 4311ci? I'm thinking of saving up and making the jump, I want XT32.
post #13477 of 23154
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKINSnCANES View Post


ahhh, thats right. I read about this a few weeks ago and didn't see how it would help me but when it was mentioned by name I didn't make the connection to the article I read. So yea thats of no need...I can probably do just fine for years with the current version. The air play support is a big one for me because all i have is apple products so i wanted the integration.

AirPlay is pretty neat. I just purchased a few ipod touchs for me , wife and son and I am impressed. I waited until Denon had AirPlay for free for us A100 owners.
post #13478 of 23154
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

maybe we could convince batpig to do a youtube version of his guide...

Now that would be very helpful to us non book readers
post #13479 of 23154
doug - Exactly what type of TV do you have?
SKINSnCANES - I swapped the SR7005 (a VERY nice receiver) for the 4311CI. Let's just say that XT32 has made a WORLD of difference.
post #13480 of 23154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickman View Post

What kind of improvement should I expect if I go from a 2112ci to a 4311ci? I'm thinking of saving up and making the jump, I want XT32.

Hi. The degree and exact nature of SQ improvement depends on a number of factors-speakers, room, sub(s), critical listening, quality of source, etc. Inexpensive speakers playing MP3 will not lead to impressive results. With halfway decent gear and good quality source material, XT32 yields a very nice step up indeed. Reports of smoother and tighter bass, improved detail/imaging, depth and width of soundstage, better integration of satellites and sub(s), more immersive surround bubble, etc., are common. Moving up from a 4310 to the 4311 (A100) was well worth it for me.
post #13481 of 23154
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Moving up from a 4310 to the 4311 (A100) was well worth it for me.

What were some of the improvements/upgrades to the 4311? I've read the upgrades concerning the A100. (if the A100 came down to say $1500 I would probably get it instead)
post #13482 of 23154
^Hi ten. I don't quite understand the question. The SQ improvements from 4310 to 4311 (A100) I have posted on and were along the lines I just mentioned just above. If you're asking about 4311 vs A100, you have already probably read the comparison in the first post of the thread. AFAIK no one has reported actually testing a 4311 vs A100. It is commonly accepted here that there is no logical rationale to think the SQ would be distinguishable in a BAB test based on the few differences internally. The fact that each A100 unit's performance is bench verified before shipping, the 5 yr warranty (vs 3 yr for 4311) and the 100th Anniv Ltd Ed status/badge are attractive features for some folks.
post #13483 of 23154
Quote:
Originally Posted by ten8yp View Post

What were some of the improvements/upgrades to the 4311? I've read the upgrades concerning the A100. (if the A100 came down to say $1500 I would probably get it instead)

better marketing speak for the a100...

this question is answered many times in this thread... search is your friend...
post #13484 of 23154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickman View Post

What kind of improvement should I expect if I go from a 2112ci to a 4311ci? I'm thinking of saving up and making the jump, I want XT32.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Hi. The degree and exact nature of SQ improvement depends on a number of factors-speakers, room, sub(s), critical listening, quality of source, etc. Inexpensive speakers playing MP3 will not lead to impressive results. With halfway decent gear and good quality source material, XT32 yields a very nice step up indeed. Reports of smoother and tighter bass, improved detail/imaging, depth and width of soundstage, better integration of satellites and sub(s), more immersive surround bubble, etc., are common. Moving up from a 4310 to the 4311 (A100) was well worth it for me.

yup... "good" speakers/sub(s) are the starting point... without those, spending into 4 digits on an avr isn't usually the best direction...

in my room with my speakers/subs, objectively and subjectively, xt32 (over xt and an antimode) alone was "worth" the expenditure... it really works... here's another bonus... while choosing sub positions in your room is still important, most of us have limited placement options... ime, unless the positions are downright horrible, xt32 does a nice job of making suboptimal positions work...

ime/ymmv....
post #13485 of 23154
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Hi ten. I don't quite understand the question. The SQ improvements from 4310 to 4311 (A100) I have posted on and were along the lines I just mentioned just above. If you're asking about 4311 vs A100, you have already probably read the comparison in the first post of the thread. AFAIK no one has reported actually testing a 4311 vs A100. It is commonly accepted here that there is no logical rationale to think the SQ would be distinguishable in a BAB test based on the few differences internally. The fact that each A100 unit's performance is bench verified before shipping, the 5 yr warranty (vs 3 yr for 4311) and the 100th Anniv Ltd Ed status/badge are attractive features for some folks.

Ok so the warranty extension and the status. Gotcha. That would be my reasoning for upgrading to the A100 vs the 4311 as well. Worth maybe $300-$400 difference if you ask me as well but that's assuming you could get the A100 for $1600-$1700. Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

better marketing speak for the a100...

this question is answered many times in this thread... search is your friend...

ughhh... come on man. I've read over 100 pages of this thread and read almost the ENTIRE Denon XX12 thread as I stated earlier. I know what the literal differences are. I meant what made the 4311 worth the added expenditure for you over the 4310, and for that matter worth buying a new unit vs keeping your old 4310, in your opinion.
post #13486 of 23154
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Hi. The degree and exact nature of SQ improvement depends on a number of factors-speakers, room, sub(s), critical listening, quality of source, etc. Inexpensive speakers playing MP3 will not lead to impressive results. With halfway decent gear and good quality source material, XT32 yields a very nice step up indeed. Reports of smoother and tighter bass, improved detail/imaging, depth and width of soundstage, better integration of satellites and sub(s), more immersive surround bubble, etc., are common. Moving up from a 4310 to the 4311 (A100) was well worth it for me.

+1 I just finished running auto setup 2 days ago on my newly purchased 4311 that replaced my 4310 and all I can say is that it has vastly surpassed my lofty expectations. XT32 is a huge step forward - now if I can find some more money for the pro kit/license. Back to some more music listening this morning and then several movies tonight.
post #13487 of 23154
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

yup... "good" speakers/sub(s) are the starting point... without those, spending into 4 digits on an avr isn't usually the best direction...

in my room with my speakers/subs, objectively and subjectively, xt32 (over xt and an antimode) alone was "worth" the expenditure... it really works... here's another bonus... while choosing sub positions in your room is still important, most of us have limited placement options... ime, unless the positions are downright horrible, xt32 does a nice job of making suboptimal positions work...

ime/ymmv....

Interesting - I have the same setup - XT + Antimode, and have been sitting on the fence for a couple of months regarding purchasing a 4311 - also like the network streaming features, etc. Looking at a slightly used unit for sale on Audiogon - upgradeitis strikes again!!
post #13488 of 23154
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post

+1 I just finished running auto setup 2 days ago on my newly purchased 4311 that replaced my 4310 and all I can say is that it has vastly surpassed my lofty expectations. XT32 is a huge step forward - now if I can find some more money for the pro kit/license. Back to some more music listening this morning and then several movies tonight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggsantafe View Post

Interesting - I have the same setup - XT + Antimode, and have been sitting on the fence for a couple of months regarding purchasing a 4311 - also like the network streaming features, etc. Looking at a slightly used unit for sale on Audiogon - upgradeitis strikes again!!

So XT32 and networking features...
post #13489 of 23154
Quote:
Originally Posted by ten8yp View Post

ughhh... come on man. I've read over 100 pages of this thread and read almost the ENTIRE Denon XX12 thread as I stated earlier. I know what the literal differences are. I meant what made it worth the added expenditure for you, in your opinion.

also answered many times in this thread...

potentially higher resale value/desireability was why i bought the a100 over the 4311... i flip equipment a lot... ease of resale means something to me...

plus it's prettier... even though i can't see it...

nice signed card from some dude in japan... suitable for framing...

i personally could live without the cast iron feet, it's heavy enough on it's own, and i'm getting old...

if you are attempting to lead the witness into blathering about sq differences between the a100 and the 4311, the witness declines to answer based upon your posts in other threads... the witness is of the opinion that any modern avr, run within spec and flat, will "sound the same" in any type of controlled test...
post #13490 of 23154
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggsantafe View Post

Interesting - I have the same setup - XT + Antimode, and have been sitting on the fence for a couple of months regarding purchasing a 4311 - also like the network streaming features, etc. Looking at a slightly used unit for sale on Audiogon - upgradeitis strikes again!!

i used an antimode for quite awhile... it remains the best 400 bucks i ever spent in a/v... that little box was worth every penny... and speaking of resale, it moved very quickly at a good price...

i used it with mcacc (good)...
i used it with xt (better, since xt works on the sub vs. mcacc)...
i sold it after i hooked up the a100...

as noted in my earlier post, in my room with my speakers/subs, it does the job...

objectively, the graphs look pretty... subjectively (a place where i rarely venture ), the graphs aren't lying... subwoofer/mains integration has always been a bit "fun" in my odd shaped room... it's better now than it's ever been, with a LOT less effort on my part...

i sound like a fanboy here... and to an extent, i am... but it's fair to say i'm an "objective" fanboy...

ime/ymmv...
post #13491 of 23154
again... come on Chris... READ my posts instead of trying to be a smart ass. I was talking about an opinion of the 4310 to the 4311 as stated twice. Not to mention the question was directed DIRECTLY at SoundofMind who kindly answered my question quickly and politely. Its kewl though.
post #13492 of 23154
Wow, did I have fun taking a ride on the "way back machine"

OK, enough talk about helpful set up stuff from other posters. I picked up the Blu Ray mix of the original Star Wars" I have had the DVD version for many years and haven't really watched it in a long, long time - from my little galaxy anyway. The new Blu Ray audio has been remastered in 6.1 lossless, of which our favorite little AVR then converts to 11.2. I was forced to listen to this with Dynamic Volume set to Evening as the kids were tucked in and snoozing.

Man, was that fun. The sound track is a big step up now and even with Evening on, it was fantastic. I was not even a teenager when this movie came out and it really has held up quite well for the ultimate popcorn movie that it is. The new version, they thankfully did not alter the movie with more computer graphic animals (they already damaged the movie enough) but it appears the editors really went to work on the fighter scenes. In the past, I could make out the sheet squares around the empires fighters. They cleaned this all up and really did a great job just taking a lot of the little errors out of the backgrounds.

So....... I await my new projector and all its 3D glory. in the mean time I recommend others go view a classic remastered. The 4311 does this movie proud.
post #13493 of 23154
^^^

you are softening my resolve to not buy those movies... i'm still aggravated by the damage already done... but i may have to give in...

what direction did you end up going on the pj?
post #13494 of 23154
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilbur_the_goose View Post

doug - Exactly what type of TV do you have?
SKINSnCANES - I swapped the SR7005 (a VERY nice receiver) for the 4311CI. Let's just say that XT32 has made a WORLD of difference.

The TV is a Samsung LN52A650. For some unknown reason it has went from bad to worse. I can't get the "stereo" mode to work today(worked fine yesterday) while listening to music.It will work on surround modes and it will pla yto the front to speakers only in "virtual mode"When in stereo,Direct, or pure only the sub plays??????Considering it took me the better part of a year to figure out my older Onkyo I might be in for some mental frustrations. I am sure it is operator error. Just can't figure out what that error is. Someone send the Audio Genie to my house!!!!!
post #13495 of 23154
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug1223 View Post

The TV is a Samsung LN52A650. For some unknown reason it has went from bad to worse. I can't get the "stereo" mode to work today(worked fine yesterday) while listening to music.It will work on surround modes and it will pla yto the front to speakers only in "virtual mode"When in stereo,Direct, or pure only the sub plays??????Considering it took me the better part of a year to figure out my older Onkyo I might be in for some mental frustrations. I am sure it is operator error. Just can't figure out what that error is. Someone send the Audio Genie to my house!!!!!

What have you changed since yesterday? Do you remember and are you able to change it back? If it was only menu changes then it may be easier to perform a processor reset and start again from the beginning.
post #13496 of 23154
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

you are softening my resolve to not buy those movies... i'm still aggravated by the damage already done... but i may have to give in...

what direction did you end up going on the pj?

I went with the Sony 95es. There are reasons to look at other projectors but in the end, the 95 seems well suited for my wants. (it's all just wants when you talk expensive projectors and a movie room). I also am somewhat loyal to Sony projectors and in the end, that influenced me over JVC, Epson, and others. I am definitely biased towards certain brands and never try and hide that. I am loyal to Denon, within reason ( the 4810 was a fiasco for me) and the 4311/A100 seems to deserve my trust. The new Sony projectors are getting good to great reviews and it has been a few generations since these units were contenders for being the best. I get the projector next Tuesday. I will get to see if the 4311 will do what it's suppose to with 3D; which is absolutely nothing but pass through. Shouldn't be too difficult.

I have not really delved deep into the 4311's network functionality other than streaming music from my server, using the I-Phone app, and playing with AirPlay. I have though used all these features a little. So, I guess, I am no Batpig and never will be but at least I'm a user of most of the 4311 feature set. Happy Holidays to all.
post #13497 of 23154
With talk of the 4313 around the corner, What i find remarkable about this avr is that the DSP and FPGA in this unit can be firmware updated to keep up with future sound processing trends/changes given it also has 11.2 preouts. I just hope Denon keeps providing firmware updates but then again it will conflict with sales of future avrs if this unit can be continuously updated alongside the newer models..
post #13498 of 23154
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaks38 View Post

With talk of the 4313 around the corner, What i find remarkable about this avr is that the DSP and FPGA in this unit can be firmware updated to keep up with future sound processing trends/changes given it also has 11.2 preouts. I just hope Denon keeps providing firmware updates but then again it will conflict with sales of future avrs if this unit can be continuously updated alongside the newer models..

I would not expect much in the form of updates. Older models usually have followed this path. However, as long as everything works, what's to update? We have seen both new features and firmware updates. Some of these updates right out the gate fixed the few major problems of the AVR, since then it's been very quiet. I am not going all fan boy here, it's just been a pretty dull piece of equipment as far as trouble and drama go.

Now my HTPC; that's a whole different story.
post #13499 of 23154
I connected a 2nd sub to my 4311 this weekend. First sub is a Rythmik FV12 2nd is a Polk DSW550. I ran auto setup again. It set my 1st sub's channel level to -6.5db and the 2nd to -10 db. Watching programming noticed the 2nd sub doesn't even turn on 90% of the time for some reason. Is it simply just sending the signal to the 1st sub and not both ?
Not sure if I should do this or not but I then changed the setting on the 2nd sub to be also -6.5 db. Now both of them seem to come on. Would doing this effect the Audssey or is it even recommended ?
post #13500 of 23154
Quote:


Is it simply just sending the signal to the 1st sub and not both ?

How could that explanation make sense if the problem disappears when you turn up the channel level?

Most likely the voltage isn't enough to trip the auto on for the sub with the trim at -10. You should turn the sub volume down a bit and rerun Audyssey so that you get a higher trim on.
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