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The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 47

post #1381 of 21947
10/3/10 at 10:17pm
I dont need an 11.2 setup. I have the Denon 4311 pre-ordered, but I'm having second thoughts... should I pick up the Onkyo TX-NR5008? I plan to expand to 9.2 max. (eventually in the next year or two) The receiver appears to be better on paper than the Denon 4311 I have pre-ordered... anyone care to either push or pull me from the ledge?
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post #1382 of 21947
10/3/10 at 10:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pologuy View Post

Yes, that does seem to be the consensus...

That the SR7005 is a 3311 (because of the 125W rating) with better amps, etc...

But then there is also the AV7005 the pre/pro version of the SR7005 AVR...

I think the lack of MultEQ XT 32 on the Marantz units will keep a great deal of consumers on the Onkyo/Denon path.
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post #1383 of 21947
10/3/10 at 10:36pm
Ok, I think I found the answer to my dilema... LOL

My god... lol, if only!


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post #1384 of 21947
10/3/10 at 11:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pologuy View Post

Ok, I think I found the answer to my dilema... LOL

My god... lol, if only!

Well, that gets you a different level of power and a cool LCD screen. It's on sale at less than half price for a reason though. Let's review. funkified Pioneer proprietary sound EQ, Ice-D amps, no 3d pass through, no Audyssey anything/anywhere. No multiple Sub EQ. I imagine, soon to be replaced. Just as I would not recommend the flagship Denon, why recommend a dated and somewhat failed Receiver. (who actually bought this monster?)

polo guy, I think you are way off base here. IMHO, the sweet spot of receivers is to buy a mid price model, save the coin, and if necessary enhance the power with external amps. Plain old vanilla and yet quite amazing external Amps can be had on the used market for nothing. Why pay huge dollars for some flagship that's front end is outdated in 36 months? I own speakers for decades, amps for almost as long and switch pre sections often.

The reason this Denon looks so promising is that it offers the absolute best and latest pre at a reasonable price. Again, go listen to it or buy it. Getting some monster Receiver is not going to add much other than owning a big soon to be obsolete monstrosity. I'd argue a Denon 3311 plus an outboard amp for the fronts would kick the snot out of the posted Pioneer and you'd still have $500 or more in your pocket. Why bounce around so much comparing flagships to mid priced units. Play your cards and go hook something up and try it for a bit.
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post #1385 of 21947
10/3/10 at 11:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

Well, that gets you a different level of power and a cool LCD screen. It's on sale at less than half price for a reason though. Let's review. funkified Pioneer proprietary sound EQ, Ice-D amps, no 3d pass through, no Audyssey anything/anywhere. No multiple Sub EQ. I imagine, soon to be replaced. Just as I would not recommend the flagship Denon, why recommend a dated and somewhat failed Receiver. (who actually bought this monster?)

polo guy, I think you are way off base here. IMHO, the sweet spot of receivers is to buy a mid price model, save the coin, and if necessary enhance the power with external amps. Plain old vanilla and yet quite amazing external Amps can be had on the used market for nothing. Why pay huge dollars for some flagship that's front end is outdated in 36 months? I own speakers for decades, amps for almost as long and switch pre sections often.

The reason this Denon looks so promising is that it offers the absolute best and latest pre at a reasonable price. Again, go listen to it or buy it. Getting some monster Receiver is not going to add much other than owning a big soon to be obsolete monstrosity. I'd argue a Denon 3311 plus an outboard amp for the fronts would kick the snot out of the posted Pioneer and you'd still have $500 or more in your pocket. Why bounce around so much comparing flagships to mid priced units. Play your cards and go hook something up and try it for a bit.

LOL, I was joking...

Well, mostly joking...
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post #1386 of 21947
10/3/10 at 11:59pm
I decided to check and see if my local Magnolia would match my pre-order price. They did and I got to set it up this evening. I didn't do much more than hook up my sources and tv and run the Audyssey setup with no additional tweaks. I just have to say I have never heard such clarity in my HT, ever. Right now I just have an old set of Yamaha speakers, but today was the first time I actually felt I was in the movie scene. While some may say this AVR sounds "bright", my impression was that it sounded clear. Even my center channel (that seemed to sound muddy overall (came with the set)) sounded great, loud, and with no audible distortion. I couldn't turn up the volume all the way as my wife was asleep, but its first impression is awesome. Now I hope my new Klipsch RF-82 IIs come in this week so I can run the setup all over again ;-)

p.s. Although I do not have kids, I am not a big fan of glossy finishes on my AV equipment. Because I do not have a separate equipment room, errant reflections can be distracting to me. Although I would have preferred a brushed aluminum front, the plastic does not look as cheap in my opinion as some may describe. I actually thought they did a decent job of emulating brushed aluminum with these.
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post #1387 of 21947
10/4/10 at 12:04am
Whoa...

The 4311 does not have the traditional Denon brushed aluminum fascia?

It is plastic?
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post #1388 of 21947
10/4/10 at 12:40am
Please, quit all your ridiculous nitpicking! Just make up your mind and try to demo something or buy something. At the least, go and actually SEE stuff in person, before passing such petty judgments on it! As for the plastic front, would you rather they saved some money elsewhere, like on something much more important than that?
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post #1389 of 21947
10/4/10 at 1:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Please, quit all your ridiculous nitpicking! Just make up your mind and try to demo something or buy something. At the least, go and actually SEE stuff in person, before passing such petty judgments on it! As for the plastic front, would you rather they saved some money elsewhere, like on something much more important than that?

No, I would rather them charge the $20 bucks more it cost to make a $2000 MSRP AVR right and not out of plastic.

And as far as "ridiculous nitpicking", what is "ridiculous" to you, obviously is not to others. It is their money, they get to choose what is important to them...

Thanks!

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post #1390 of 21947
10/4/10 at 1:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pologuy View Post

No, I would rather them charge the $20 bucks more it cost to make a $2000 MSRP AVR right and not out of plastic.

And just who are you, to determine if they are making it "right" or not?

This AVR looks like it's possibly going to be a very big seller for Denon, no matter what you seem to think about it. And if you have so many gripes and issues going on with it that bother you about it, then just get something else instead of rehashing the same stuff over and over again.
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post #1391 of 21947
10/4/10 at 4:08am
Man, looks like the pot got stirred over the weekend after some posts. Let me clarify some things.

Medium and low volume - Denon is wonderful, full clarity and the amp seems to put out sound effortless. My wife and I watched some TV last night around -30DB and it sounded great and I wasn't straining to hear anything like I would my Onkyo around this volume level. We also watched the new Robin Hood movie (no comment on that one) and at -12DB everything sounded fantastic although we were sitting right on top of my speakers (remember, my HT room is in pieces right now furniture wise.) XT32 in the Denon is really amazing and having the ability to see graphs without REW (if they are accurate I haven't gotten that far) is awesome. The clarity XT32 provides over XT is very apparent, at least in my setup. I was almost smiling at some points in the movie because of how awesome my surround speakers came to life. I do think the match to my Rockets is causing them to sound bright but again this is at reference levels in a smaller-sized HT room. I may be pushing the amp too hard which is causing some of what I am hearing.

I really think these receivers take a good couple hours to break them in and the amp cleans itself up some. Take your time when setting it up and read the manual over once or twice. This receiver has a lot of functionality in it that most do not and you very well could overlook a few things. I spent a good 2 hours on Saturday just going through the menu's and learning what each setting does and I still feel like there is stuff to discover.

Looks you are either going to love it or hate it. If I were walking by this receiver at Best Buy I wouldn't even give it a glance based on appearance. It feels like a toy compared to other receivers I've owned but at the end of the day who cares if it sounds great? I do not have a super fancy room and I don't brag about my equipment so the look doesn't bother me (except the remote, it is truly awful IMO.) If you are into visual appeal this won't be your receiver and you will want to look at the A100.

For those on the fence or losing sleep, I would still re-buy this receiver today if I were given the choice. Give it a shot from a vendor with a good return policy, you won't regret it.
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post #1392 of 21947
10/4/10 at 4:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

The clarity XT32 provides over XT is very apparent, at least in my setup.

Damn... And I was just about to settle on the 3311 :|
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post #1393 of 21947
10/4/10 at 5:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

XT32 in the Denon is really amazing and having the ability to see graphs without REW (if they are accurate I haven't gotten that far) is awesome.

Just to clarify.. the graphs are not a new feature on XT32... AFAIK, it's been in the Denon's for the past three or four years models.
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post #1394 of 21947
10/4/10 at 5:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pologuy View Post

Whoa...

The 4311 does not have the traditional Denon brushed aluminum fascia?

It is plastic?

The hate is strong in this one.
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post #1395 of 21947
10/4/10 at 5:44am
For anyone using a Harmony Remote, which model did you choose (Denon 3311?) until it is added to the database?
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post #1396 of 21947
10/4/10 at 6:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pologuy View Post

Sound quality, sound quality, sound quality... at reference levels...

I couldn't care less about 11:2, I am perfectly fine with 7:2 - I am using this in my home, not a dance club, lol

I couldn't care less about Rhapsody and Napster, internet radio via Pandora, photo viewing via flickr, HD Radio, etc...

For $2000 I would like a well built, powerful, warm and full sounding AVR...

Is that too much to ask?

Pologuy,

It's not too much to ask, but that has a different meaning for everybody.

Also, what exactly is this arbitrary reference level and how many people actually know what reference level is and consistently listen at this level?


Willie
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post #1397 of 21947
10/4/10 at 6:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post

I disagree since most stores sell it for MSRP unless you ask for a discount or a price match. Surprisely, many people will buy these at full MSRP.

On a side note, why is this receiver getting such huge discounts? It sort of makes me worried. I'm new to Denon.. is it normal for their dealers to mark stuff down 30% before it's even out? I'm coming from an Onkyo 805 and without a fan on top it reaches 70-80C about 30 minutes into a movie, by the time the movie is over my small room is so hot that I have to watch movies with the door open! From what i've seen Denon products run at much lower temps so i'm hoping that will fix one of the many problems i've had with my 805.

Tyrindor,

I'm sensing that you are trying to equate discounts to quality.

When I started looking for AVRs a month ago I could have purchased either the Onkyo TX-NR3008 or NR5008 for more than 30% off from an authorized dealer and a Pioneer SC-37 for 30% off from an authorized dealer.

Most B&Ms are not going to give the guy off the street 30% off. The guy off the street is expecting to pay MSRP and is ecstatic if he can even get a 10% discount.

I personally think the above mentioned AVRs and the AVR-4311CI are comparable and it depends on what values you place on the different aspects of each AVR. They are all probably fine AVRs. It's nice to have choices.


Willie
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post #1398 of 21947
10/4/10 at 6:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pologuy View Post

Whoa...

The 4311 does not have the traditional Denon brushed aluminum fascia?

It is plastic?

General question to the forum. Are the fronts on the Onkyos, Pioneers and Yamahas aluminum for those who have seen them? I thought I heard somewhere that the Pioneers were plastic, but I could be wrong.

This is not a part of my buying decision.


Willie
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post #1399 of 21947
10/4/10 at 6:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post

I disagree since most stores sell it for MSRP unless you ask for a discount or a price match. Surprisely, many people will buy these at full MSRP.

On a side note, why is this receiver getting such huge discounts? It sort of makes me worried. I'm new to Denon.. is it normal for their dealers to mark stuff down 30% before it's even out? I'm coming from an Onkyo 805 and without a fan on top it reaches 70-80C about 30 minutes into a movie, by the time the movie is over my small room is so hot that I have to watch movies with the door open! From what i've seen Denon products run at much lower temps so i'm hoping that will fix one of the many problems i've had with my 805.

Because the wholesale(dealer cost) is less than half of what the retail price is.

They can take off $500 and still make at least $500 on each one sold. Profit margin of these are made for deep discounts.
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post #1400 of 21947
10/4/10 at 6:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

Well, that gets you a different level of power and a cool LCD screen. It's on sale at less than half price for a reason though. Let's review. funkified Pioneer proprietary sound EQ, Ice-D amps, no 3d pass through, no Audyssey anything/anywhere. No multiple Sub EQ. I imagine, soon to be replaced. Just as I would not recommend the flagship Denon, why recommend a dated and somewhat failed Receiver. (who actually bought this monster?)

Many People like MCACC. What's so funkified? Sounded good in my room when I used it.

Many people like ICE amps, too. Very cool running and loads of power.

No 3D pass through - just run a cable to your display

Splitters come in handy for multiple subs.

If you want to see how many bought it, and what they think of it, check out the SC-09 thread right over there...

Now, would I buy one, probably not, but they are a nice unit.
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post #1401 of 21947
10/4/10 at 6:55am
I'm just laffing my a** off at about 10% of the posts in this thread. Mostly, by those who are simply too thick to understand that an Onkyo AVR that tests at 30-40 more watts per channel will NEVER playback sound that will be perceptibly louder and, at equal levels, will be indscernible from a Denon in identical rooms. with identical loudpseakers, utilizing identical settings.

If this thing weighed ten more pounds and possessed metal knobs people would be raving of course.

And the damn thing wouldn't sound a bit different.

"bright, less-spacious, thin, etc".

You just cannot make this sh*t up.

James
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post #1402 of 21947
10/4/10 at 6:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

Man, looks like the pot got stirred over the weekend after some posts. Let me clarify some things.

Medium and low volume - Denon is wonderful, full clarity and the amp seems to put out sound effortless. My wife and I watched some TV last night around -30DB and it sounded great and I wasn't straining to hear anything like I would my Onkyo around this volume level. We also watched the new Robin Hood movie (no comment on that one) and at -12DB everything sounded fantastic although we were sitting right on top of my speakers (remember, my HT room is in pieces right now furniture wise.) XT32 in the Denon is really amazing and having the ability to see graphs without REW (if they are accurate I haven't gotten that far) is awesome. The clarity XT32 provides over XT is very apparent, at least in my setup. I was almost smiling at some points in the movie because of how awesome my surround speakers came to life. I do think the match to my Rockets is causing them to sound bright but again this is at reference levels in a smaller-sized HT room. I may be pushing the amp too hard which is causing some of what I am hearing.

I really think these receivers take a good couple hours to break them in and the amp cleans itself up some. Take your time when setting it up and read the manual over once or twice. This receiver has a lot of functionality in it that most do not and you very well could overlook a few things. I spent a good 2 hours on Saturday just going through the menu's and learning what each setting does and I still feel like there is stuff to discover.

Looks you are either going to love it or hate it. If I were walking by this receiver at Best Buy I wouldn't even give it a glance based on appearance. It feels like a toy compared to other receivers I've owned but at the end of the day who cares if it sounds great? I do not have a super fancy room and I don't brag about my equipment so the look doesn't bother me (except the remote, it is truly awful IMO.) If you are into visual appeal this won't be your receiver and you will want to look at the A100.

For those on the fence or losing sleep, I would still re-buy this receiver today if I were given the choice. Give it a shot from a vendor with a good return policy, you won't regret it.

Big +1 very well put
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post #1403 of 21947
10/4/10 at 7:03am
I am having a hard time decideing between the 4311 and the Integra 80.2. Yes I know the Integra is a pre-pro, but I just can't decide which I want to go with.
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post #1404 of 21947
10/4/10 at 7:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

It's on sale at less than half price for a reason though. Let's review. Ice-D amps

I hate to be the one to tell you this but Ice-D amps are outstanding amps and likely far superior to most amps you find in receivers today.....this is actually a major plus for Yamaha. Don't confuse Ice-D amps with the amps that are in your sub....very different animals.

Yamaha never got much credit for including them because many assume that Class D is lower quality than the class A/B amps. BTW, Class D amps weigh less and give off far less heat than A/B.

GH
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post #1405 of 21947
10/4/10 at 7:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pologuy View Post

Whoa...

The 4311 does not have the traditional Denon brushed aluminum fascia?

I prefer flat black, not brushed aluminum. Quite odd that some manufacturers or vendors will charge more for a given external finish. Now it is a different story if it is gold plated.

Quote:


It is plastic?

I don't care unless the plastic melts , just wish that it would get shipped out from WWStereo.

Edit: Just got an e-mail from WWStereo, it will ship out this week!!
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post #1406 of 21947
10/4/10 at 7:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nethomas View Post

I am having a hard time decideing between the 4311 and the Integra 80.2. Yes I know the Integra is a pre-pro, but I just can't decide which I want to go with.

Not that this is the venue to do AVR/PRE/PRO comparos, but what does the Integra offer over the Denon?

Outside of different DACs, XLRs, and not possessing an amplifier section, I cannot think of anything worth going on about.

THX surround modes?

Otherwise I would imagine them (of course) to sound identical when matched with an identical room, speakers, source, and other components.

The Denon does do DSX 11.X however, and afford the ability to playback 2 channel digital inputs in the other zones, which the Onkyo does not.

James
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post #1407 of 21947
10/4/10 at 7:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post

I disagree since most stores sell it for MSRP unless you ask for a discount or a price match. Surprisely, many people will buy these at full MSRP.

They will especially if they aren't familiar with AVS Forum. A few of the "authorized Denon e-tailers" have been routinely selling Denon AVRs on average about 25% below MSRP right out of the gate. Others stick with the MSRP price until the next year's models come out or may discount if asked to price match from another "authorized" vendor.
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post #1408 of 21947
10/4/10 at 7:43am
Thanks for the reply mastermaybe. I thought the Denon was 9.1? that's waht it says on the website! I have no doubt it will be a great unit.
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post #1409 of 21947
10/4/10 at 7:43am
There are several different ways to go about resetting the AVR if it starts acting strange (all of which have been shown to work individually for various issues on other networking models) ....

1. Unplug the AVR for about 30 minutes
2. Reset the microprocessor (p. 138, audio and video sections only)
3. Step 1 + Step 2
4. Deep/Network reset - this includes Step 2 plus also resets the network as well: hold (up) and (down) arrow keys on front panel [under flap] while powering up the AVR

* Note: AFAIK, there is no procedure to reset to an earlier version of firmware.
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post #1410 of 21947
10/4/10 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghstudio View Post

I hate to be the one to tell you this but Ice-D amps are outstanding amps and likely far superior to most amps you find in receivers today.....this is actually a major plus for Yamaha. Don't confuse Ice-D amps with the amps that are in your sub....very different animals.

Yamaha never got much credit for including them because many assume that Class D is lower quality than the class A/B amps. BTW, Class D amps weigh less and give off far less heat than A/B.

GH

Yamaha gets no credit because they don't use them. Pioneer does.

And Seattle's bashing of the SC-09 is a little off base I agree...

It still is an amazing piece of engineering, with the absolute best amp section I've had in my system.

While it lacks a good video processing solution (it doesn't process any HDMI video or HD resolutions over analog) it is definitely as good a flagship as any of it's competitors still offer (vs. the Yamaha Z11 and Denon 5308) in terms of sonic quality (I don't consider the Onkyo 5008 a flagship in the same league as what other manufacturers offer...)

It's high cost at launch certainly limited it's market share, but I would be surprised if the numbers were substantially lower than Denon for the AVP/5308 or Yamaha for the Z11..

Plus the fact that MCACC is fully customizable without a Pro Kit and license, has 6 calibration memories, offers standing wave EQ for the subs, etc, makes it a fairly strong competitor to Audyssey's system (I prefer it actually.)

Might not have all the bells and whistles, but as an AVR, it is pretty unique in it's sound quality and power output... best I've had in my system ever...
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK]