The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 6

As an avid user of zones two and three, the best I can suggest is: grab a Harmony remote (or you can probably set a 2-3 step activity on the master Denon remote) and set up a macro activity to turn it (zone 2) on and select the airtunes input (if it's available to be output in zone 2 which I think it should). And 2, use an amp that "wakes up" upon receiving and "sleeps" (upon not receiving) a signal at the analog inputs.

Not sure of any other way, and I seriously doubt merely using Airtunes in any fashion can do it.

James

Yes, I can understand your qualms with that post, but that's very unusual with modern AVRs in my experience. I don't think my D-3310 does that.

I can try when I get home, as I have all 7 channels pre-outted, ATM.

James

that post from JD that you linked is referring to the warning in the Denon manual not to use the speaker posts and pre-outs simultaneously for the same channel. He was understanding the OP's intent as wanting to "bi-amp" the center channel by using an external amp (via pre-out) combined with the internal amp to power a single speaker.

Although he said "can't" I can assure you that he didn't mean that it was physically impossible to do so. Just that you shouldn't

RE: "The pre-outs and matching speaker posts cannot both be used at the same time ... "

Darin, I think that post is correct. It seems that the PRE-OUT channels are only available/live when the internal amps are not being used. If you select PRE AMP, all the PRE OUT Channels are live. If you select 11CH, only the FHL/FHR or FL/FR PRE OUT Channels will be live (depending on the selection you make). The other channels will not be live (from what I can tell in the manual). See this note at the bottom of page 25 (28 of .pdf file):
When external power amplifier have been connected to PRE OUT terminals, do not connect the speakers to the speaker terminals.

Seems to confirm the other post.

Tom

Thanks, now I see that note in the 4311 manual (bottom of page 25). I wonder why they say that? Perhaps to prevent any bad signals (like ground loops) from being sent back to the internal amps? I guess if that's the case, that would suggest that they are physically tied, and therefore the pre-outs would necessarily be live when the internal amp is.

Yes, I just found that. So now I think the question is, are they saying "don't do that because something bad could happen", or "don't bother doing that, because it won't get you anywhere".

Regardless, I don't have any intention of connecting speakers to those outputs at the same time as using the pre-outs. I just want to make sure the pre-outs are live (on the rear channels) even if it's not in pre-amp mode.

let me clarify, I agree with batpig's previous post:

"I don't see any reason to think that all the pre-outs will not be active in "11ch" mode."

They should be active, but, I can't find anything in the manual to confirm it.

Tom

This is good stuff man. I may not utilize all the different methods available, but I like to know my choices.

If I am intrepreting all this correctly, I could add an external amp to drive my Def Tech BP7000SC's (mains) at a later time, then use the amps originally assingned to fronts(mains) for heights?

Yes, that much does seem to be clear in the manual.

No, I know counsil, just imagine how daunting it may appear to a newbie!

James

Well if they WEREN'T active, guys like me would really be up a creek, looking to utilize the 11CH mode where the Denon "thinks" it's driving 9 speakers while simultaneously pre-outting 7.

If you dont't have 11 channels of external channels of amplification but want to use an existing 5 or 7 channel amplifier, they really dont give you a choice.

James

this same "warning" has existed in Denon manuals for years, it doesn't in any way mean that the pre-outs are not "hot" at all times. Darin's interpretation of "don't do that because something bad could happen" is correct

So let me ask you guys something.. My plans were to buy an external amp to drive my front speakers, center and the height or wide speakers and use the Denon for everything else. Is this possible or at least possible to use the pre-outs for the F/C speakers? I am confused on how flexible the pre-outs are on the receiver.

When will they ship 4311?

yes, you are fine with your plan

After a first pass through the manual (yikes!), I have a couple of questions. I am upgrading from a 12 year old HTIB, so be gentle.

I waited for the release of this receiver in hopes of future proofing as much as possible. We are using in-wall speakers but have no appropriate wall space for the front wides. My wife really wants to upgrade her two channel equipment and we would love to combine both of our needs into one system.

So, does it appear possible, with this receiver, to use externally amped floorstanding speakers as the front wides for movies (11.2), etc. and route her two channel audio to those same speakers for music listening?

I appreciate any advise....this forum is a gold mine.

JB

no, the "wides" cannot be the stereo speakers for 2-ch.

why not simply use the dedicated 2-ch speakers as FRONTS, not wides? The +/- 60-degree spacing for "wide" speakers isn't appropriate for 2-ch listening anyway.

"The pre-outs and matching speaker posts cannot both be used at the same time ...
I don't actually get this..."


I'm using both, Front L/R main speaker outputs and the Front L/R preouts of my 3311, to drive my NHT Evolution T5 front speakers (the preouts go to NHTs X1 controller which then goes to 2 NHT A1 amps to drive each T5 sub module).
I haven't had any issues with this configuration.... so far.

DreamCatcher

please clarify how my scenario is different from pg 59 of the manual


asthetics, mainly, although she said she would "consider it"


the floor speakers would be movable enough that it would work from where she listens

thanks again,
JB

Hello,

I agree with other posters here that batpig, Darin and mastermaybe are actually doing an excellent job of decoding the otherwise-inscrutable Denon manual. Some of the conversation is a tad arcane, to be sure, but then real newbies are rarely going to be chasing after eleven discrete channels for their setup; five usually takes care of them.

I do want to "+1" robber616's inquiry: does anyone know anything about when these things are expected to ship? I know one of you (can't recall your name off-hand--sorry) was given 9/15 as a ship date; is that just an estimate from one retailer, somewhat harder data from a big distributor or something else? I'm sorry to push on this, but I am absolutely bursting with excitement over this thing and am dying to know just how soon I could expect to get one. Like batpig, I'm "making do" with a still-very-respectable 2310 today, but I'm looking to swing for the fences now!

Thanks,

Noob

I think the issue with the pre-outs and the amp outputs is that you have one volume control for both. It's not clear that attaching a speaker to the amp output and running the pre thru an amplifier to a second identical speaker would give the same volume....and certainly to speakers of different efficiency, there could be quite different volumes. However, if your amp has a volume control, you could use that to balance the two outputs. It might be possible to use both for bi-amping if you have a level control between your separate amp and the speaker.

For bi-amping, you might be able to do some clever routing of the pre-out to an analog input for zone 2 and then using that output for your bi-amping....hmmm... I might just try that.

^ i understand your thrust, but I believe the reason the question arose was the "fear" that configuring the amps a certain way would render the pre's useless.

Again, since some potential configs essentially quasi-insist that you select a mode that's intended to power speakers from the 4311 that you're REALLY powering with external amps, the pre's remaining fuctional for these channels is imperative.

Like my future set-up: I'll choose the 11CH mode, where most would usually power the Center, Wides, Heights, Surrounds, and Backs with the 4311 and externally power the Fronts.

But I will power all but the Heights and Backs externally...and therefore I'll need the pre-outs to remain "on", even though the config is intended to power those channels with the internal amp.

I dont't think anything over a fraction of a fraction of a % are looking to run 2 pairs of Fronts, Sides, Wides, etc by using the internal and external amplifiers...and that is neither advisable nor particularly straight-forward to do, as already mentioned.

James

Yaaaaay. The 4311 does have vtuner!

I don't like how they do so much black and white in the GUI. Sucks. Should be more pretty and colorful.

According to cnet, the 4311 has already been discontinued! Such a shame too because I was really looking forward to buying one!

Seriously, the only authorized online dealer (so far) that has it for preorder is J&R but no shipping date is posted (yet). I don't think anyone except perhaps Denon insiders of course know exactly when it will ship at this time.

The 9/15 date was given by a unauthorized (online) dealer on Audiogon, so I wouldn't put too much weight in this date, especially since it's the 9th and the major e-tailers have very little to say about this AVR being only 6 days from the supposed ship date.

My personal opinion is that we will need to wait until CEDIA. Perhaps now that product info is officially available from Denon we will start to see preorders popping up at the authorized sites over the next week or two in advance of CEDIA with a ship date sometime in late September.

Don't get me wrong, I hope I am wrong and it ships earlier as I too am pretty excited about this AVR, especially due to the pre-amp mode (finally!) and dual-subwoofer/calibration (also finally!) support. I should have a few more weeks ahead of me before my speakers are finished and that should match up fairly well with the 4311's ship date (around or just after CEDIA I am assuming), but my subs have already arrived so I'm no doubt ready to get this party started!

Hang in there!
Josh

EDIT: Authorized online seller Worldwide Stereo now has it for preorder as well, no ship date however.

You guys know the rule, right?:

As L (lust) increases => W (wait) similarly increases.

It's a widely-known premise in this industry.

James

cnet sucks. They know squat. That page is from April it says. Discontinued means only after it's been out.

Exactly!

I didn't want to bring up the dreaded "O" month, but DisTreSs might have his finger on the pulse.

We'll see...looking forward to it either way.