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The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 503

post #15061 of 21934
2/15/12 at 1:37pm
I was wondering if some of you guys could help me wrap my head around a subwoofer issue I am having since I got the 4311. I had an Onkyo 609 with 2eq so I had to dial my sub in by ear and an spl meter. It sounded deep and pressurized my room, but wasnt always well defined and I knew I was missing something not having something to eq my sub.

I went back and forth on receivers and went with the 4311. I ran Audyssey and it set my sub to -3.5 and I confirmed all the speaker levels with an spl meter. I then manually went in and raised my sub level 3dbs and the bass is a lot more clean and accurate, but it doesnt feel like it is as low and doesnt feel to pressurize my room barely at all like it did before and I started to hear some chuffing from my sub during a few test scenes that I use. I also tried to turn Audyssey off, but I cant seem to get the sub to be as powerful as it was before.

Is this something I just have to get used to? Maybe I was running my sub too hot before with 2eq, but like I said, it was all dialed in with an spl meter and there was no port noise or chuffing happening before. I also noticed that this receiver is more bright than I thought it would.

Any suggestions?
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post #15062 of 21934
2/15/12 at 1:43pm
^^^

what sub?

when you previously "dialed it in by ear and spl meter", what do you mean by that? using a test tone disk?
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post #15063 of 21934
2/15/12 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jxhopper View Post

If I purchase 2 more epiks for a total of 4... and I stack them (splitting each signal so each stack acts as one)... will Audyssey still be able to tune my subs properly?

Since XT32 can only deal with two unique sub positions the optimal (wrt XT32) result means not only should they be colocated but ideally each pair would be identical. If they're not colocated time adjustment (distance/phase) still requires that they be equidistant from the MLP. If they're not identical you're going to sacrifice performance.
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post #15064 of 21934
2/15/12 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Since XT32 can only deal with two unique sub positions the optimal (wrt XT32) result means not only should they be colocated but ideally each pair would be identical. If they're not colocated time adjustment (distance/phase) still requires that they be equidistant from the MLP. If they're not identical you're going to sacrifice performance.

Yeah... this is why I am looking at 2 more empires instead of other options. THen every thing matches up and should appear to Audyssey as 2 subs.
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post #15065 of 21934
2/15/12 at 2:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

what sub?

when you previously "dialed it in by ear and spl meter", what do you mean by that? using a test tone disk?

Outlaw LFM-1 Plus and will add an LFM-1 EX or another Plus in the coming months. No I didnt use a test tone disk I used Audysseys test tones on the receiver and used an spl meter to make sure everything was level matched at 75db. After everything looked good I raised the sub level on the receiver 3db to run it a little hot and played A Perfect Circles Passenger and a scene from Transformers 3, both of which I am very familiar with to make sure the bass was just right and there was no port noise.
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post #15066 of 21934
2/15/12 at 6:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Video processing would be the other source of delay. Putting it into Game mode presumably disables some of the video processing and therefore less audio delay is needed in the main zone.

What I did was leave mine on normal and turn off video conversion and ip scaling for that input/output.
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post #15067 of 21934
2/15/12 at 6:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

BP....

all he needs is the ZP90. You do need a network feed to the ZP90 so it can get Internet content and access his PC or NAS. Sonos comes with all the services, you just pick what you want to purchase. As a bonus, Pandora is the ad free version with unlimited access. It is essentially Pandoras paid service without the "pay" part of the equation.

I can not emphasize enough how much better the Sonos interface is than all the other products I admittedly have played with. The wife would never use a device that you could not control volume and zoned content. The I-Pad and Android Tablet apps are gorgeous. Also, the ZP90 optical audio out can be set for volume control as well so you can zip around and change volume with the I-Pad without even having a Denon app. Since he is an accountant you are not done there. The ZP90 has both optical and analog feeds live. This means he can hook up something like an AudioEngine W2 device to another powered set of speakers or feed the analogs outs to another device in on the 4311. I don't know why, but you could.

With one of my ZP90s, I have a poor mans garage zone set up. I go SPDF out to my Den AVR and analog out to a W2. I then have a $30 über cheap digital amp in the garage connected to my wife's old Tangent Black circa 80'sBehemoth speakers. For about $100 bucks I have kid tunes in the garage play area and my frugal wife is pleased I brought out her old speakers for some use. Did I mention they are crazy ugly?

I am very interested in the Sonos ZP90 or ? as a solution to playing back my FLAC files (many multi-channel DVD-A & SACD ripped discs) stored on mediaserver to my backyard. I use a HTPC/foobar2k for my theater to play these as well as movie material and recorded TV, but would like to find a different/cheaper solution for the backyard. Will the ZP90 with a Denon 3805 be able to playback hi-rez 24bit 48/88.2/96 mc files over SPDIF or is there a limitation? I realize this is OT so perhaps you could point me to maybe a thread were I could discuss.
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post #15068 of 21934
2/15/12 at 6:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post

Will the ZP90 with a Denon 3805 be able to playback hi-rez 24bit 48/88.2/96 mc files over SPDIF or is there a limitation? I realize this is OT so perhaps you could point me to maybe a thread were I could discuss.

Unfortunately, Sonos does not support high resolution file playback. You can learn more about Sonos at http://forums.sonos.com/. A discussion regarding hi-rez support is here: http://forums.sonos.com/showthread.p...ghlight=Hi-Rez.
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post #15069 of 21934
2/15/12 at 7:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Video processing would be the other source of delay. Putting it into Game mode presumably disables some of the video processing and therefore less audio delay is needed in the main zone.

But shouldn't turning i/p scaler and video convert disable video processing? I thought I've seen previous posts of people trying to fix delay, and turning these didn't get rid of it. I'm just having a hard time understanding how you can leave the i/p scaler enabled, yet still reduce delay so much by enabling the (mysterious to me) "game mode".
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post #15070 of 21934
2/15/12 at 10:52pm
Hey guys, my tv (samsung d650059") screen is turing black, it is random only while watching tv, not in between commercials or anything like that, it just looses picture randomly but sounds stays in tact. I loose picture for about 4 to 5 seconds. I've replaced hdmi cables and also noticed this on the last receiver I had which was a onkyo 3008, I've also upgraded my tv twice as well so I think I've narrowed it down to my cable box ( motorolla dcx3400) I just would like to know if it's a setting on my cable box or something defective on my tv/4311 Any ideas? Anyone else notice a black out like I'm experiencing?
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post #15071 of 21934
2/16/12 at 1:08am
I have some questions about the 4311:

1) Is it possible to limit max volume per input on the 4311? That is definitively a feature that a need.

2) How good and responsive (latency) is the navigation through DLNA material on a 1Gb Ethernet connection? I have an OPPO-93 and it's slow.

3) How does its DAC compares to the one in the OPPO-93 ?
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post #15072 of 21934
2/16/12 at 3:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanii19 View Post

Hey guys, my tv (samsung d650059") screen is turing black, it is random only while watching tv, not in between commercials or anything like that, it just looses picture randomly but sounds stays in tact. I loose picture for about 4 to 5 seconds. I've replaced hdmi cables and also noticed this on the last receiver I had which was a onkyo 3008, I've also upgraded my tv twice as well so I think I've narrowed it down to my cable box ( motorolla dcx3400) I just would like to know if it's a setting on my cable box or something defective on my tv/4311 Any ideas? Anyone else notice a black out like I'm experiencing?

HDMI handshake issues are common with cable/sat boxes. Other than ensuring the firmware is up to date on the cable box, your options would be to (a) upgrade the box to a different model number, (b) connect the HDMI cable directly to the TV with optical from the box to the AVR, (c) connect component video/optical from the box to the AVR and remove the HDMI cable.
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post #15073 of 21934
2/16/12 at 3:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by makutaku View Post

I have some questions about the 4311:

1) Is it possible to limit max volume per input on the 4311? That is definitively a feature that a need.

The "Volume Limit" - p. 104 (-20db, -10db, 0db) applies to the Master Volume while the "Source Level" (p. 85) can be adjusted by input (-12db-0-+12db).
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post #15074 of 21934
2/16/12 at 5:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Video processing would be the other source of delay. Putting it into Game mode presumably disables some of the video processing and therefore less audio delay is needed in the main zone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post

But shouldn't turning i/p scaler and video convert disable video processing? I thought I've seen previous posts of people trying to fix delay, and turning these didn't get rid of it. I'm just having a hard time understanding how you can leave the i/p scaler enabled, yet still reduce delay so much by enabling the (mysterious to me) "game mode".

In my system, the problem of audio sync between the Main Zone and Zone 2 did not improve by turning off the i/p scaler and video convert. (All my VIDEO sources and VIDEO outputs are HDMI, so video convert shouldn't have made a difference anyway.)

The audio sync problem only occurred when using my Cable TV box as the source, which supplies Main Zone audio from HDMI and Zone 2 audio from the analog connections. I never had an audio sync problem between the Main Zone and Zone 2 when using my Oppo BPD-83 as the source, which also uses HDMI for the Main Zone and analog for Zone 2 audio. I had assumed that the audio sync problem was occurring inside the Cable TV box, so I was quite surprised that putting the 4311 video into Game mode fixed it.

Nowhere does Denon explain exactly how Game mode for video differs from normal video processing. Apparently, with normal video processing, there's more video processing going on than just scaling (edge enhancement?, color filtering?, gamma correction?, etc.) that delays the HDMI video such that audio needs to be delayed to match.
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post #15075 of 21934
2/16/12 at 5:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightbox View Post

In my system, the problem of audio sync between the Main Zone and Zone 2 did not improve by turning off the i/p scaler and video convert.

And that's exactly what confuses me. I thought by disabling i/p scaling and turning off video convert, you were effectively turning off all video processing... I thought this was supposed to give you "unmolested" video. But if Game mode is a video setting, and enabling it reduces delay beyond what can be done by disabling video processing, how is that possible? Does it invoke some super-secret time-warp technology? If so, then I can understand why it's so poorly documented. It's probably national security type stuff.
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post #15076 of 21934
2/16/12 at 5:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post

And that's exactly what confuses me. I thought by disabling i/p scaling and turning off video convert, you were effectively turning off all video processing... I thought this was supposed to give you "unmolested" video. But if Game mode is a video setting, and enabling it reduces delay beyond what can be done by disabling video processing, how is that possible? Does it invoke some super-secret time-warp technology? If so, then I can understand why it's so poorly documented. It's probably national security type stuff.



Given the limited info available on Game mode, I think it's only reasonable to assume that it does something to minimize delays as latency is a pretty important consideration for some types of gamimg. But I agree that turning off all video processing (passthru) should result in the least delay possible.
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post #15077 of 21934
2/16/12 at 6:56am
First of all I want to thank everyone for their advice on the delay issue. I will post my results when I have a chance to test.

My latest topic. Heat.
Not sure how hot is too hot.
My Denon AVR-4311 is measuring 100-110 deg F on top.
The roof of the cabinet (2" clearance) is also measuring about 105 -110.
I have been considering adding a cooling fan. Even if not needed it can't hurt and might prolong the life of the receiver.
Found this on Amazon. Antec Low Profile AV Component Cooler for Media PC Home Theater Products, reasonably priced.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Torben
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post #15078 of 21934
2/16/12 at 7:01am
^^^

2" of clearance isn't a lot... is the rest of the cabinet closed in? how much room is on the sides?

can't really comment on that fan setup, when i ventilated a previous unit i just pieced together something from coolerguys...
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post #15079 of 21934
2/16/12 at 7:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post



Given the limited info available on Game mode, I think it's only reasonable to assume that it does something to minimize delays as latency is a pretty important consideration for some types of gamimg. But I agree that turning off all video processing (passthru) should result in the least delay possible.

I have video convert off, ip scale off but decided to switch to game mode on my 4311 for my Xbox 360. Reading that people seem to notice less lag with game mode on their 4311 might be due to what some TV manufacturers do with their game mode -which is have a special game mode setting that disables sub processing completely which is supposed to speed up video processing. Some test results say these "game" modes do a better job at reducing lag than a user shutting off all the video features manually. If you go to this link and click learn more aboutns Sharps Vyper mode http://www.sharpusa.com/ForHome/Home...echnology.aspx it give a diagram explanation. Maybe that is what Denon is doing also?
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post #15080 of 21934
2/16/12 at 7:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tverdich View Post

First of all I want to thank everyone for their advice on the delay issue. I will post my results when I have a chance to test.

My latest topic. Heat.
Not sure how hot is too hot.
My Denon AVR-4311 is measuring 100-110 deg F on top.
The roof of the cabinet (2" clearance) is also measuring about 105 -110.
I have been considering adding a cooling fan. Even if not needed it can't hurt and might prolong the life of the receiver.
Found this on Amazon. Antec Low Profile AV Component Cooler for Media PC Home Theater Products, reasonably priced.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Torben

What kind of cabinet do you have? Is it a built in? I ask because I would use a fan that installs on the back of a unit that is temperature controlled. That would require cutting a hole in it for the fan installation and maybe drilling or cutting a hole for air intake. Unless the front is open or you leave the door open when its on. You could always buy something like THIS if you have access to the rear of the cabinet. I only used that as an example because it was quick and easy. I think the cooler guys have an ebay store if you want to check out their offerings.
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post #15081 of 21934
2/16/12 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSDTrainer View Post

What kind of cabinet do you have? Is it a built in? I ask because I would use a fan that installs on the back of a unit that is temperature controlled. That would require cutting a hole in it for the fan installation and maybe drilling or cutting a hole for air intake. Unless the front is open or you leave the door open when its on. You could always buy something like THIS if you have access to the rear of the cabinet. I only used that as an example because it was quick and easy. I think the cooler guys have an ebay store if you want to check out their offerings.

My cabinet is open in the front and has a medium size hole in the back.
I could place a fan in the back but

I could just install a strong fan in the back, preferably a thermostatically controlled one like the one you recommend, a little pricy though, and not sure if it would move enough air. With all the wires back there and the medium size hole.
I have not seen any posts on heat issues here so I'm assuming that has not been a big issue for most.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Torben
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post #15082 of 21934
2/16/12 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tverdich View Post

First of all I want to thank everyone for their advice on the delay issue. I will post my results when I have a chance to test.

My latest topic. Heat.
Not sure how hot is too hot.
My Denon AVR-4311 is measuring 100-110 deg F on top.
The roof of the cabinet (2" clearance) is also measuring about 105 -110.
I have been considering adding a cooling fan. Even if not needed it can't hurt and might prolong the life of the receiver.
Found this on Amazon. Antec Low Profile AV Component Cooler for Media PC Home Theater Products, reasonably priced.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Torben

65 degrees Celsius = 149 degrees Fahrenheit
Thats for the cheapest soild state Components on the market, so your well below that.. But adding a cooling fan should add more life.
But I would add that Bluray players are speced at
Operating temperature:
5 ºC to 35 ºC (41 °F to 95 °F)
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post #15083 of 21934
2/16/12 at 11:13am
I have pushed this AVR several times, because I think it is one of the best ones out there at this price point. I use four symmetrically placed subs in my room and have been using Yamaha YDP2006 (parametric EQ) for my subs. I have decided that I want to try out XT32 for my room. Since my subs are symmetrical, I plan on putting the back two on one sub output and the front two on the other sub output and see how well it does. I am also going to try and see if the AVR alone has enough juice to suit me. If not, i will add my amps back in.

My room is pretty heavily treated so it will be interesting to see what difference there is. I do like what Multi EQ XT does in my untreated family room. Hopefully I have time to play with the 4311 this weekend.
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post #15084 of 21934
2/16/12 at 12:35pm
@ SeattleHTG, AustinJerry, etc. -

After discussing it with my friend he's going Sonos good work, you made a convincing case and he had heard good things about it elsewhere so he should be happy! I am excited to help him configure his system and see it in action.
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post #15085 of 21934
2/16/12 at 12:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tverdich View Post

First of all I want to thank everyone for their advice on the delay issue. I will post my results when I have a chance to test.

My latest topic. Heat.
Not sure how hot is too hot.
My Denon AVR-4311 is measuring 100-110 deg F on top.
The roof of the cabinet (2" clearance) is also measuring about 105 -110.
I have been considering adding a cooling fan. Even if not needed it can't hurt and might prolong the life of the receiver.
Found this on Amazon. Antec Low Profile AV Component Cooler for Media PC Home Theater Products, reasonably priced.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Torben

I was thinking of the Antec until I read this. A couple of USB fans did the trick.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ighlight=antec
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post #15086 of 21934
2/16/12 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

@ SeattleHTG, AustinJerry, etc. -

After discussing it with my friend he's going Sonos good work, you made a convincing case and he had heard good things about it elsewhere so he should be happy! I am excited to help him configure his system and see it in action.

I will be shocked if he doesn't love it.
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post #15087 of 21934
2/16/12 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwinroad View Post


I was thinking of the Antec until I read this. A couple of USB fans did the trick.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ighlight=antec

Yes, cooler guys has several very good options. I'd recommend the USB fans or the equipment cooling kit. I use both and the results have been excellent.
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post #15088 of 21934
2/17/12 at 5:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwinroad View Post

I was thinking of the Antec until I read this. A couple of USB fans did the trick.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ighlight=antec

This looks like a great idea and good to hear they are high quality fans.
I hate the cheap fans that give out in no time. I would hide them in the back of the cabinet and draw the hot air out. Not as effective as on top, but don't like the look of this on top.
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post #15089 of 21934
2/17/12 at 5:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

Yes, cooler guys has several very good options. I'd recommend the USB fans or the equipment cooling kit. I use both and the results have been excellent.

This looks great except for the fact that it vents the air out the back and my opening out back is too small for effective air flow. This with a output hose to direct the exhaust would be perfect.
People have turned it backwards, but his results in the power cable showing and hot air blowing in your face when you approach the receiver. LOL

I think I will start with hidden USB fans and move on from there.
Perhaps I can just draw power from the USB input on the receiver?
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post #15090 of 21934
2/17/12 at 6:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tverdich View Post

Perhaps I can just draw power from the USB input on the receiver?

A powered USB hub is ~$10 that way nothing is plugged into the front of
the receiver.

Cooler Guys does have a lot of different options
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK]