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The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 555

post #16621 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcole05 View Post

Hi guys. Just got my new 4311 and loving it so far. I was wondering if I could get some advice/help on the best way to input music from my computer to the Denon.

The main issue is that the computer is not setup as a true HTPC in that it has low end (integrated) video and sound capability. I would like some advice about getting the highest quality sound from my ALAC files stored on the PC to the 4311. My options are

1) HDMI out from my low end integrated (on the motherboard) PC

2) Optical out from same low end integrated on the PC

3) USB out to an asynchronous USB DAC. This is very noobish of me, but I don't know where this would input into the 4311 and whether it would defeat the purpose by re-processing what the USB DAC has already done, hopefully at a higher quality level than the Denon's DAC.

4) Buy a new, better sound card. Does this gain anything if I am using the Denon's DAC anyway? Will this permit 'purer' output or can even a simple integrated sound card do ok with bitstream out?

5) Streaming via airplay. I love that feature but don't know what I might be losing in SQ.

Thanks for any thoughts. I've mainly been using the Denon so far through MOG streamed from my iphone and it sounds pretty good even with the 320kbps. But as I transfer my CDs to lossless onto the computer I want it to sound even better of course.

I have a PC and a Mac Mini connected to the 4311 via a stereo input. Both computers are connected to a Cambridge DAC Magic Plus, the Mac Mini via USB and the PC via COAX Digital. The Mac Mini is using Amarra Mini software (http://www.amarraaudio.com/) the PC is using J River Media Center software (www.jriver.com)

The Mini has a mix of 256K DL'd from iCloud and AIFF ripped via the Mac Mini. The PC has FLAC DL'd from www.hdtracks.com or files ripped via JRiver Media Center in uncompressed .WAV.

I have a Denon DVD-5900 connected via Denon Link 2 for DVD-Audio. The DVD-5900 is also hooked up via the 7.1 for multi-channel SACD since the Denon Link 2 cannot handle multi-channel.

Speakers are M&K S-150's LCR and SS-150 Surrounds with an SVS PB12+ sub. I have the 4311 set to use L&R + Sub for stereo.

Sound is great! I have been enjoying my audio more than I have in years. I love the DAC Magic Plus and the job the Amarra and JRiver software do on the digital files is nothing short of incredible. Amarra has a button to switch between it and iTunes native. Amarra is a huge upgrade on iTunes.

Digging through the CD collection (It had been in boxes in the basement for several years) I uncovered Alan Parson I Robot, On Air and Steely Dan Two Against Nature in DSD 96K. I am in love with my music again......

The Denon DAC's are good. I prefer this current setup. YMMV but half the fun is messing with all the variations and enjoying the journey.

Good Luck!
post #16622 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by longbow View Post

I have a PC and a Mac Mini connected to the 4311 via a stereo input. Both computers are connected to a Cambridge DAC Magic Plus, the Mac Mini via USB and the PC via COAX Digital. The Mac Mini is using Amarra Mini software (http://www.amarraaudio.com/) the PC is using J River Media Center software (www.jriver.com) Good Luck!

I was planning on purchasing JRiver myself, unless the consensus (one vote already) was that airplay was just as good.

Naive question, but when you go into a stereo input, you bypass the internal DAC (obviously) on the 4311 but still have access to Audessey and other pre/pro features of the 4311?

I could then go out via the pre-outs to my power amp and even possibly use the dedicated preamp mode in the 4311 for best SQ I assume.

Thanks for the responses so far
post #16623 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcole05 View Post

... when you go into a stereo input, you bypass the internal DAC (obviously) on the 4311 but still have access to Audessey and other pre/pro features of the 4311?
I could then go out via the pre-outs to my power amp and even possibly use the dedicated preamp mode in the 4311 for best SQ I assume...

Audyssey and all other DSP is done in the digital realm in PCM format. If you input analog and want DSP, you will incurr an ADC, and a DAC as well, as the preouts have an analog signal.

Honestly, I cannot see the point of an external DAC.

The preamp mode makes only a subtle difference over Normal mode irt SQ to my ear using high quality source and good speakers. I did not do the test blinded so it may make pretty much no diff.
post #16624 of 23136
I am not interested in Audyssey for Stereo. I love it for multi channel. So I am not concerned about bypassing it some of the time. As for external DAC's vs the Denon DAC's Both do a good job, but part of the fun is the hobby and trying out different combinations of components. At the moment, I have a set up that I am enjoying. Hence the YMMV comment.
post #16625 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by longbow View Post

I am not interested in Audyssey for Stereo. I love it for multi channel. So I am not concerned about bypassing it some of the time. As for external DAC's vs the Denon DAC's Both do a good job, but part of the fun is the hobby and trying out different combinations of components. At the moment, I have a set up that I am enjoying. Hence the YMMV comment.

Hi longbow. To clarify, my comments had nothing to do with your post. I think it is quite cool that you are experimenting and posting your results. I've posted on quite a few DAC and preamp and pure analog vs digital etc. comparisons myself. Are you able to compare a HiRes source shiny disc (SACD or DVDA) via DenonLink vs your HiRes file system ext DAC irt SQ? I'm interested in that result although in my room, I cannot listen without Audyssey- it is unbearable.
post #16626 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Hi longbow. To clarify, my comments had nothing to do with your post. I think it is quite cool that you are experimenting and posting your results. I've posted on quite a few DAC and preamp and pure analog vs digital etc. comparisons myself. Are you able to compare a HiRes source shiny disc (SACD or DVDA) via DenonLink vs your HiRes file system ext DAC irt SQ? I'm interested in that result although in my room, I cannot listen without Audyssey- it is unbearable.

I have done this with a few of my SACD/DVD-A discs where I had the older Redbook CD to rip lossless (AIFF or WAV) or a DL from hdtracks.com.

Pretty close generally. I prefer the shiny disc via Denon link for DVD-A. SACD is really close. I am OK with either choice.

Multi channel is all Denon all the time with the DVD-5900. I have it connected to 2 separate inputs. Denon Link 2 for DVD-A and another for the 7.1 SACD. Both are great with Audyssey and surround.

I doubt I will buy more SACD/DVD-A unless they are surround. The quality for the 2 channel via the computers is very high either from the 96/192K DL's or from ripping to lossless and playing back with JRiver or Amarra via the DAC Magic Plus.
post #16627 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcole05 View Post

I was planning on purchasing JRiver myself, unless the consensus (one vote already) was that airplay was just as good.

Naive question, but when you go into a stereo input, you bypass the internal DAC (obviously) on the 4311 but still have access to Audessey and other pre/pro features of the 4311?

I could then go out via the pre-outs to my power amp and even possibly use the dedicated preamp mode in the 4311 for best SQ I assume.

Thanks for the responses so far

If you are using iTunes and Apple Lossless, Airplay, as implemented on the Denon's, streams at 44.1 using ALAC.... I have confirmed this by streaming ALAC DTS-CD files from iTunes via Airplay.... the newer Apple TV's sample rate convert everything to 48k..

If you wants the highest quality direct stream from iTunes, IMO, Airplay is the way to go.

To use an external DAC with something like the 4311 (which isn't a high end pre amp) doesn't seem like it will gain you a performance increase vs. the money spent...
post #16628 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by longbow View Post

...Multi channel is all Denon all the time with the DVD-5900. I have it connected to 2 separate inputs. Denon Link 2 for DVD-A and another for the 7.1 SACD. Both are great with Audyssey and surround...

Excuse me if I've missed this detail about your setup, but are you aware of the 5900 DenonLink 3 upgrade? DL3 allows you to send MC SACD/DVDA via DL3. See here.
post #16629 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Excuse me if I've missed this detail about your setup, but are you aware of the 5900 DenonLink 3 upgrade? DL3 allows you to send MC SACD/DVDA via DL3. See here.

Denon link 3 is not available as an upgrade for the 5900. I do have it installed on my DVD-3910 but that unit is connected to my AVR-4308CI running a nice all Vandersteen 5.1 setup.
post #16630 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

If you are using iTunes and Apple Lossless, Airplay, as implemented on the Denon's, streams at 44.1 using ALAC.... I have confirmed this by streaming ALAC DTS-CD files from iTunes via Airplay.... the newer Apple TV's sample rate convert everything to 48k..

If you wants the highest quality direct stream from iTunes, IMO, Airplay is the way to go.

To use an external DAC with something like the 4311 (which isn't a high end pre amp) doesn't seem like it will gain you a performance increase vs. the money spent...

Again, sorry for my ignorance, but I happen to have an Apple TV too. Is the upconversion to 48K a good thing or a bad thing?
post #16631 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcole05 View Post

Again, sorry for my ignorance, but I happen to have an Apple TV too. Is the upconversion to 48K a good thing or a bad thing?

Your original post stated you were concerned about getting the best SQ out of your ALAC library...

While I doubt anyone could reliably hear the SRC in the Apple TV, the easiest way to stream to the 4311 from iTunes is via Airplay... it also happens to be the most accurate (i.e. with less steps where the audio could pick up issues that might possibly affect sound quality...0

post #16632 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Your original post stated you were concerned about getting the best SQ out of your ALAC library...

While I doubt anyone could reliably hear the SRC in the Apple TV, the easiest way to stream to the 4311 from iTunes is via Airplay... it also happens to be the most accurate (i.e. with less steps where the audio could pick up issues that might possibly affect sound quality...0


Thanks. While I do like the idea of playing around a bit more with other upgrades, my guess is that Airplay will provide a very easy to use solution with very good sound quality.

Maybe as I learn more, I'll want to play around with a system that has a nice DAC/preamp with a HT bypass or something.
post #16633 of 23136
Guys, I am having some trouble with my new 4311 (less than 10 hours on it).

Today when I turned it on, the video is displaying improperly - almost like it is stretching and only displaying the upper left quadrant of the normal picture.

Pics below - ignore the flash, crappy camera phone and temporary paper screen.

It also is occurring regardless of the hdmi input that I use. It's not the projector or the source component as they both check out ok.

Any ideas? Microprocessor reset has not fixed the issue.

My normal output setting is 1080p 24hz to an epson 5010 proj.

Thanks for any advice.







post #16634 of 23136
So I switched from cable to satellite and when I plug my direct tv receiver into my denon 4311 it stops accepting IR signals (no control what so ever). If I unplug it (HDMI) from the receiver it starts working again. Tried multiple HDMI cables and couple of inputs .. same issue. THoughts? I turned off HDMI control which is the only thing I can think of. I've searched the internet but the combination of searches just brings up remote issues. My remote works fine as long as its *not* connected via HDMI to my AVR.
post #16635 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by longbow View Post

Denon link 3 is not available as an upgrade for the 5900. I do have it installed on my DVD-3910 but that unit is connected to my AVR-4308CI running a nice all Vandersteen 5.1 setup.

Your house must be filled with wonderful music! Apparently the 5900 DL3 upgrade is a far more complex topic than I thought (as you likely know, that was a rapidly evolving time in DenonLink history and early 5900 models differed from later in hoew the upgrade could be done-see here).

BTW, I stumbled upon a positive review about DenonLink by Kal Rubinson in Music in the Round. He equated it to the exc SQ of the Pure Direct analog pathway, but with the addition of DSP room correction-best of both worlds, and exactly my experience! I pretty much cannot read a column by that fine fellow without learning something of value.
post #16636 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauleyc View Post

So I switched from cable to satellite and when I plug my direct tv receiver into my denon 4311 it stops accepting IR signals (no control what so ever). If I unplug it (HDMI) from the receiver it starts working again. Tried multiple HDMI cables and couple of inputs .. same issue. THoughts? I turned off HDMI control which is the only thing I can think of. I've searched the internet but the combination of searches just brings up remote issues. My remote works fine as long as its *not* connected via HDMI to my AVR.

I should mention that IR stops for both devices ...
post #16637 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davecraze View Post

Guys, I am having some trouble with my new 4311 (less than 10 hours on it).

Today when I turned it on, the video is displaying improperly - almost like it is stretching and only displaying the upper left quadrant of the normal picture.

What is the length of the cable from the AVR to the PJ? Try reducing the resolution to 480i ... if it works, you need to either change the cable or add an HDMI extender.
post #16638 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauleyc View Post

So I switched from cable to satellite and when I plug my direct tv receiver into my denon 4311 it stops accepting IR signals (no control what so ever). If I unplug it (HDMI) from the receiver it starts working again. Tried multiple HDMI cables and couple of inputs .. same issue. THoughts? I turned off HDMI control which is the only thing I can think of. I've searched the internet but the combination of searches just brings up remote issues. My remote works fine as long as its *not* connected via HDMI to my AVR.

Reset both the DTV box and the AVR. If still no joy, try testing with another DTV box or replace the box.
post #16639 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

What is the length of the cable from the AVR to the PJ? Try reducing the resolution to 480i ... if it works, you need to either change the cable or add an HDMI extender.


Thanks for the reply. The HDMI cable is only three feet long.
post #16640 of 23136
^^
Only 3' from the AVR to the PJ? That's a first. You have your AVR located in the ceiling? Replace the cable.
post #16641 of 23136
That is short, I run my HDMI cable 25' from PJ to A100. Maybe he has a really small room 4'x4'x4'
post #16642 of 23136
Just dawned on me that "Evil Chris" has/had his PJ mounted on the back wall so it's possible the OP has the same setup with his equipment rack next to the PJ.
post #16643 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauleyc View Post

I should mention that IR stops for both devices ...

Very strange, if you ask me.

Not that it will matter, but does your DirecTV remote have the option to run in RF mode? The RC64R does so, and it might be interesting to see if that at least allows the SAT box to respond.
post #16644 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Reset both the DTV box and the AVR. If still no joy, try testing with another DTV box or replace the box.

THanks for the reply. I just replaced the box with another and everything is good now. Very odd. Big UFC fight tonight and my setup was JACKED .. thanks again!
post #16645 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauleyc View Post

THanks for the reply. I just replaced the box with another and everything is good now. Very odd. Big UFC fight tonight and my setup was JACKED .. thanks again!

Glad you're at least up and running. Does the "bad" box work if you feed it directly to a TV?
post #16646 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauleyc View Post

THanks for the reply. I just replaced the box with another and everything is good now. Very odd. Big UFC fight tonight and my setup was JACKED .. thanks again!

Great! More often then not .. it's the source or the cable.
post #16647 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Only 3' from the AVR to the PJ? That's a first. You have your AVR located in the ceiling? Replace the cable.


Yes, that is correct. Both my projector and my avr are basically on the ceiling. They are inside a tv stand (http://www.amazon.com/OmniMount-Echo.../dp/B001523EGY - without the feet and painted to match my room) that is attached to the ceiling joists. I replaced the cable and the problem did not go away.
post #16648 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Just dawned on me that "Evil Chris" has/had his PJ mounted on the back wall so it's possible the OP has the same setup with his equipment rack next to the PJ.

Yeah it would most definitely have to be shelf mounted. I was thinking of putting my rack in closet in back of room but never have done that yet. I even purchased RF ext. for my 1100. Still I would need around 12' of HDMI for my ceiling mounted PJ. Maybe will do that eventually when I purchase another PB13 Ultra for upfront
post #16649 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davecraze View Post

Yes, that is correct. Both my projector and my avr on on the ceiling. They are inside a tv stand (http://www.amazon.com/OmniMount-Echo.../dp/B001523EGY - without the feet and painted to match my room) that is attached to the ceiling joists. I replaced the cable and the problem did not go away.

Try a 1080p/60hz or 720p resolution to see if that resolves the issue.
post #16650 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Try a 1080p/60hz or 720p resolution to see if that resolves the issue.

Thanks. I tried those different resolutions and still doesn't resolve the problem, unfortunately.
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