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The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 568

post #17011 of 23170
^^
I certainly could be mistaken, as I don't know the specifics on DL4.
post #17012 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo0sic View Post

Loving my system. Just wanted to post something positive. I watched two episodes of Game of Thrones season 1 Blu Ray last night. The sound is awesome in GoT.

+1. Great show and PQ/SQ on the blus are fantastic.
post #17013 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBDan View Post

My HR24 was upgraded to 0x5c8 on 4/24 and then the problems started. They just started to roll this update out. Please let me know if you start experiencing this issue after your upgrade.

Thanks
Dan

I received an update to my HR23 on 5/1 and am having hdmi video issues. I have reset my HR23 and my denon dvp-602 video processor and it helped, but still having some issues when I select a recorded show to play I lose the video and it doesn't come back unless I toggle HDMI inputs. Then when I stop the recorded show to go back to live TV the same thing happens or sometimes when I just change channels for live TV. I have programmed my URC MX-980 remote with a button that toggles the hdmi so I can just click it and the video comes back, albiet having to do this is annoying.
post #17014 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post

+1. Great show and AQ/SQ on the blus are fantastic.

+2. The Blu-Rays make the PQ/SQ of Season 2 on DirecTV HD hard to watch. Brilliant show!
post #17015 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post

I received an update to my HR23 on 5/1 and am having hdmi video issues. I have reset my HR23 and my denon dvp-602 video processor and it helped, but still having some issues when I select a recorded show to play I lose the video and it doesn't come back unless I toggle HDMI inputs. Then when I stop the recorded show to go back to live TV the same thing happens or sometimes when I just change channels for live TV. I have programmed my URC MX-980 remote with a button that toggles the hdmi so I can just click it and the video comes back, albiet having to do this is annoying.

Well at least it appears to be a Directv software issue.
post #17016 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBDan View Post

Well at least it appears to be a Directv software issue.

I have a hr23 in my children's play area hooked up to a d8000 led Samsung 55" inch tv. It's firmware was updated at 1:48am this morning and there's no issues I can see, but it's also not hooked to an avr anymore. Some guys in the yammy threads ARE having issues with the latest hr22 firmware update. This started a couple days go, so i don't know if the firmware that was downloaded this morning is any type of fix for it.

My plasma which the 3010 is hooked to has a hr22 with video pass thru engaged, no processing. Last time they updated the firmware was 02/08/12.

With your dtv remote, Goto MENU, then settings... It will show your firmware info immediately.
post #17017 of 23170
Finally go around to setting up my 4311CI. I also have a Denon AVP-A1HDCI and AVR-5800 in the house, so I knew my way around the receiver without having to dig into the manual.

Of course it is a complex beast, but connection and configuration was simple enough. I have a feeling this is one of the last old-school/made in Japan Denons I'll be able to get for a while. Build quality is pretty nice, but I was expecting a bit more for $2K MSRP. Compared to my AVP and 5800, the front panel is not as nice, as it appears made out of plastic. Same with the Volume/Source knobs. They're not bad, but the lack of nice metal and precision feel of the AVP/5800 is obvious. Last gripe is with the binding posts. I dunno if the A100 twin was really worth $500, but those upgraded binding post have to be better than what they put on the 4311CI!

I upgraded to get the Airplay feature, that was pretty simple, and it works OK. I get the occasional dropout when playing music from my iPhone. It just may be Wifi issues. I plan on moving the Wifi access point to a better location, anyways.

Sound quality after running Audyssey setup is quite good, still doing some listening. I'm just running a pair of NHT SuperOnes, no sub/center/surrounds. I wanted the AVR so I could finally get HDMI switching in this room, enjoy the EQ'ing of XT32, and have Airplay availability for my wife. So far, so good.
post #17018 of 23170
Quote:


the front panel is not as nice, as it appears made out of plastic.

Indeed. From what I understand, the 4310CI was the last model (besides the A100?) with the aluminum face plate. But it has plastic knobs but super smooth/silky functioning.
post #17019 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

Indeed. From what I understand, the 4310CI was the last model (besides the A100?) with the aluminum face plate.

Bummer. Oh well, it's not some kind of deal-breaker. And the general quality is still quite nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

But it has plastic knobs but super smooth/silky functioning.

I wouldn't consider it silky smooth. Try one of the AVR-5xxx series, they use a totally different volume control. Those are smooth!
post #17020 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjones View Post

Yes.

The higher gain does manifest itself for those of us who have high efficiency speakers - low level hum and hiss when ears are near the speaker grilles (but that it not where my MLP is ). It is amplifying the residual noise in the Denon plus adds a little of its own.

I'm not sure I follow this. The point was that Audyssey sets the overall SYSTEM gain based on the level presented by the microphone. This system gain is equal to the gain of the DSP * the gain of the preamp stages * the gain of the XPA-5 * the efficiency of your speakers. Since the gain of the XPA-5 is constant, it does this by lowering the gain in either the DSP or the 4311 preamps to offset the high efficiency of your speakers for a given volume control setting (let's say 0 dB).

Whether the signal to noise ratio of the preamp varies as a function of its gain depends on its gain structure and the attenuator design. Some preamps provide a substantially higher SNR at lower gain settings. Otherwise, what noise is referenced to the input of the preamp gets amplified the exact same amount as the signal that's input....so you shouldn't hear more noise/hum at your speakers just because you have a PA with 6 or so dB of gain more than typical. It's compensated for elsewhere in the signal chain.
post #17021 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

Finally go around to setting up my 4311CI. I also have a Denon AVP-A1HDCI and AVR-5800 in the house, so I knew my way around the receiver without having to dig into the manual.

I have a feeling this is one of the last old-school/made in Japan Denons I'll be able to get for a while. Build quality is pretty nice, but I was expecting a bit more for $2K MSRP. Compared to my AVP and 5800, the front panel is not as nice, as it appears made out of plastic. Same with the Volume/Source knobs. They're not bad, but the lack of nice metal and precision feel of the AVP/5800 is obvious.

Glad you like it so far. How have you found the feel and precision of the volume and source selector controls on the remote?

I honestly don't know if I've touched those controls on the box since I got it.
post #17022 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by russ_777 View Post

Glad you like it so far. How have you found the feel and precision of the volume and source selector controls on the remote?

I honestly don't know if I've touched those controls on the box since I got it.

Also being an AVP-A1HDCI owner, I had the same build quality impressions Sam S has found. Definitely not deal-breakers, as he says, but certainly easily noticeable when you compare them side by side.

As to the remotes, no idea as I don't use the included remote for either .
post #17023 of 23170
^I care not about plastic faceplates and knobs. What I want is an AVP/4311 owner to BAB AVP vs 4311, same room, same speakers, level-matched, XT32 engaged, HiRes music source in native Stereo and MC listening mode. I know this is difficult so the SoM 500 cent prize will be awarded to the first one to post results.
post #17024 of 23170
I checked and I don't think I'm wrong.... the front of my 4311 is aluminum like my 2809 and 3808.
post #17025 of 23170
I'm still struggling with a way to run a second zone along with the receiver in 11.2 mode. I'm using a 7 channel amp to power front speakers, wides, and heights. The surrounds and rears powered by the Denon. I was thinking of hooking up my zone 2 (outside speakers) to the height speaker outputs in line with an a/b speaker selector. I could then switch between 11 channel mode and surround with second zone depending on the situation. If I was only watching a movie I could shut the outside speakers off and put the receiver in 11 channel mode. With both a movie on and outside speakers switch to second zone mode and watch the movie without heights. The only drawback I really see is having to possibly change the crossover of the heights so I can run the outside speakers full range. Anyone with any thoughts?
post #17026 of 23170
^^
Why not just add a 2CH amp and connect it to the Zone 2 preouts?

http://www.amazon.com/AudioSource-AM.../dp/B00026BQJ6
post #17027 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^I care not about plastic faceplates and knobs. What I want is an AVP/4311 owner to BAB AVP vs 4311, same room, same speakers, level-matched, XT32 engaged, HiRes music source in native Stereo and MC listening mode. I know this is difficult so the SoM 500 cent prize will be awarded to the first one to post results.

I've said this before, but it would be a royal PITA for me to do such a comparison. My gut feeling is that the 4311 wouldn't be embarrassed in such a comparison, but there are a few areas where the AVP would emerge as the winner (pure direct mode for analog sources being one). The AVP definitely has a better tuner. I find the AM tuner on the 4311 switching between HD and analog mode a lot on the station (a very strong one - WBZ 1030 from Boston - that I should receive just fine and do on the AVP and the McIntosh tuner in my home office system) I listen to for news in the morning when I'm getting ready for work. On the AVP, the HD Radio and analog tuners are completely separate (different antenna inputs, different sources) and keeping them separate definitely works better in my experience. On the other hand, the 4311 has Airplay (for those who care ) and more flexibility in handling height and width channels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trolly View Post

I checked and I don't think I'm wrong.... the front of my 4311 is aluminum like my 2809 and 3808.

Yeah, I think you're right about that - I was just speaking of the overall build quality between the 2. It really isn't a big deal and something to be expected given the difference in MSRP. The AVP is essentially a statement "cost no object" product while the 4311 is built to meet a specific (somewhat lower) price point. Without question, the 4311 is the better value of the two.
post #17028 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelscott73 View Post

I'm still struggling with a way to run a second zone along with the receiver in 11.2 mode.

There is no struggle, there is a single correct solution: You use external amps for zone 2. Period. Boom, you're done. Any other way is going to be an annoying kludge workaround.

You're telling me you'd rather deal with the hassle of changing an a/b speaker switch every time you want to use zone 2 than simply spending $50-$100 on a 2ch amp or stereo receiver? Or if you want a free solution, repurpose 2 channels of your 7ch amp for zone 2 and use the 4311 to power 4 surrounds & 2 heights.

The final option is to add 4 more amp channels to main zone and go full preamp mode, in which case you can repurpose 4 amps in the 4311 for zone 2/3.
post #17029 of 23170
I agree with gsr, regarding the AVP vs. the 4311. Setting up a proper A/B would be a giant pain. Just not gonna happen at my house. If you're going for absolute sonic perfection, I do feel the balanced architecture (and connections, of course) does indeed provide for truly hifi sound. Of course, the 4311 is the better value, especially considering the close out prices. It's why I could not resist, even though I'm not using it to its full potential.

Also, regarding the face plate. Just stick your fingernail on the far left/right side between the face and side panel and pull a bit towards you. You can feel the flex in the front panel, unlike the metal front of the AVP.

The Airplay, and better web/iOS control are definitely welcome improvements over the AVP.
post #17030 of 23170
Went ahead and placed an order for for a 4311.Got tired of Onkyo no speaker icon no sound problem for the 3rd time.
Dowloaded the manual and found out Denon probaly hired Professor Irwin Corey to translate from Japanese to English.I have a headache.
I love the way the finger point icon points to the page number your already on.I will be visting this forum often.There is wealth of info to be hadHello to everyone.
First question,Iam currently running 9:1 set-up with front high,surround and back surrounds flush monted to the wall.
Diagram in the manual shows turning speaker inward and down towards listening position and includes some angle measurements.Any noticeable improvements in doing so?
Many questions to follow.
Regards,Len
post #17031 of 23170
Quote:
First question,Iam currently running 9:1 set-up with front high,surround and back surrounds flush monted to the wall.
Diagram in the manual shows turning speaker inward and down towards listening position and includes some angle measurements.Any noticeable improvements in doing so?

this is not really a 4311 question but rather a general principle of speaker layouts -- ideally you want all speakers aimed at the "sweet spot" as many speakers will have worse response off axis. In an ideal world you'd want them all aimed in, yes.

However, in practical application it may not be worth the effort for the heights/surrounds, it really depends on how your speakers are designed and/or mounted and how your room + speaker setup sounds. I would just go run XT32 setup and see how it sounds, if everything blends nicely I wouldn't worry about it unless it's easy to make a change with speaker aim. Again really depends on the specifics of your setup on whether it's worth the effort.
post #17032 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I've said this before, but it would be a royal PITA for me to do such a comparison. My gut feeling is that the 4311 wouldn't be embarrassed in such a comparison, but there are a few areas where the AVP would emerge as the winner (pure direct mode for analog sources being one).
... Without question, the 4311 is the better value of the two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I agree with gsr, regarding the AVP vs. the 4311. Setting up a proper A/B would be a giant pain.
...Of course, the 4311 is the better value, especially considering the close out prices. It's why I could not resist, even though I'm not using it to its full potential...

Good points, fellas. I TOTALLY agree that the 4311 offers tremendous value.

OK. so the SoM AVP/4311 A/B Challenge Prize will likely go unclaimed.
Ah, well...I'm simply trying to quel the tiny amout of residual upgradosis I have irt to the venerable AVP. The only thing that matters to me is whether, for the huge additional investment, I would get a significant bump up in SQ for well-recorded digital source music listened to with XT32.

I recently heard several high-end systems including nice speakers, sophisticated digital sources, analog vinyl, SS and tube processors and amps, etc., at AK Fest. Keeping in mind all caveats such as the listening rooms were almost all untreated, that different source material was listened to at times, my faulty auditory memory, almost no BAB, etc., I was surprisingly reassured by the lack of being blown away. I feel pretty darn good about the SQ I've achieved at home on a relatively modest budget as compared to their offerings (I've got about $10K into my $25K worth of audio gear).

I think I'd have to kick the budget WAY up to have any hope of significant SQ improvement from any piece of gear, like with the AVP. One important factor is my untreated room. XT32, Pro and the 2 sub placement do manage that AMAZINGLY well -but the room precludes pure analog or even non-DSP RC minimalist digital paths irrelevant for me.
post #17033 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

this is not really a 4311 question but rather a general principle of speaker layouts -- ideally you want all speakers aimed at the "sweet spot" as many speakers will have worse response off axis. In an ideal world you'd want them all aimed in, yes.

Whether or not aiming speakers at the seating position is "ideal" is highly dependent on the speakers and the room. Determining the best aiming direction requires experimentation with the actual speakers in the room, and broad generalizations don't necessarily apply.
post #17034 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

The only thing that matters to me is whether, for the huge additional investment, I would get a significant bump up in SQ for well-recorded digital source music listened to with XT32.

I'm surprised to hear people really consider an AVP vs. 4311CI. Sure, they share 90% of features. But the decision to own one vs. the other doesn't really boil down to fact that they will probably sound fairly close.

If you're choosing the 4311CI, you are probably after a strong value, and may even be tempted to upgrade after a year or so. Things like balanced outputs, and connecting to ridiculous amps probably don't appeal to you. You appreciate the flexibility of having all the amps you'll need, built in. In a pinch, you're <$2K and "done", just add speakers.

If you're choosing the AVP, you're probably after state-of-the-art. It doesn't represent "value" in the HT world. You probably already have enough high quality amps to power 7+ speakers, and likely never plan to buy a "receiver" ever again. When you decide to invest in the AVP, you can pretty much be assured your quest for that "last 10%" in sound performance is over. The AVP (especially with 3D upgrade), stands among the best HT products ever created. You could probably go sideways with a $10K competing product, but little chance of bettering it, in the SQ dept. With the AVP, you can really appreciate its internal design, and how that (hopefully) meshes with the rest of your components. If you've already invested in a few true balanced components, and appreciate the benefits they have in your system, something like the 4311CI just ain't gonna cut it.

Hopefully, one of those descriptions fits you best. And that will help you decide if the AVP, or the 4311CI is better suited to you, your budget and HT.
post #17035 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Good points, fellas. I TOTALLY agree that the 4311 offers tremendous value.

OK. so the SoM AVP/4311 A/B Challenge Prize will likely go unclaimed.
Ah, well...I'm simply trying to quel the tiny amout of residual upgradosis I have irt to the venerable AVP. The only thing that matters to me is whether, for the huge additional investment, I would get a significant bump up in SQ for well-recorded digital source music listened to with XT32.

I recently heard several high-end systems including nice speakers, sophisticated digital sources, analog vinyl, SS and tube processors and amps, etc., at AK Fest. Keeping in mind all caveats such as the listening rooms were almost all untreated, that different source material was listened to at times, my faulty auditory memory, almost no BAB, etc., I was surprisingly reassured by the lack of being blown away. I feel pretty darn good about the SQ I've achieved at home on a relatively modest budget as compared to their offerings (I've got about $10K into my $25K worth of audio gear).

I think I'd have to kick the budget WAY up to have any hope of significant SQ improvement from any piece of gear, like with the AVP. One important factor is my untreated room. XT32, Pro and the 2 sub placement do manage that AMAZINGLY well -but the room precludes pure analog or even non-DSP RC minimalist digital paths irrelevant for me.

SOM - I had a similar opinion after I returned from AXPONA. Easily the biggest difference between the SQ of my system and that of some of the better systems on display there was the speakers. But I'm comparing $6k/pair speakers to MBL 101Es and YG Acoustics Anats. It's like comparing a Corvette to Bugatti. Those speakers are unobtainium for 99% of the population and cost a significant fraction of what their house is worth. But there's no arguing that they provide another level of dynamics, clarity, LF extension and imaging/soundstage. The 4311, if driving the same PAs used with those speakers, would not have downgraded the sound noticeably, IMO.
post #17036 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

As noted previously, since I am rebuilding my entire home theater I couldn't really afford to swing an Oppo so the decision was made to wait for the next gen Oppo to surface before I jumped, but this would leave a gap in being able to listen to my multichannel music, which I am looking forward to with the new speakers soon to arrive. When I read the possible alternative of using Denon Link I started looking for a used compatible disk player, and after my offer of $275 shipped for a 2930CI was accepted I was on my way.

I've set everything up, I think correctly. The 4311 DVD in put HDMI assignment is 'None', digital set to DLINK. On the 2930 Denon link setting is DL3. By the way, it took me awhile to access the Denon Link digital assignment config - it cannot be selected if a disk is in the drive (hope this helps others).

Denon Link light is activated on the 2930, and when I play a disk Dlink is in the display (no HDMI), and on the 4311 it also shows Dlink. With this I am almost certain that DL3 is carrying the audio signal. What puzzles me is why, when I unplug my HDMI cable from the 2930 during playback, audio disappears.

Following up on this, last night I hooked the 2930 to the 4311 using composite video cable for OSD, but could not get into the 4311 to re-assign inputs for this source. I tried everything I could think of, ultimately resetting the 4311 microprocessor. This also cleared up my problem above, DL3 is now transporting audio without HDMI hookup.

A quick comment - it would have been great if the 4311 reverted to default configuration for a source after its been disabled.

One other question remains - even though my SACD use DSD, if this setting is used in the 4311 decode configuration no sound is output. Only Auto setting works (and DSD is displayed during playback). It works, and that's great, but I'm still curious.
post #17037 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

buddy, you may not realize it but you are talking about a NINE CHANNEL receiver. That means you have 9 amps, not the usual 7, so you can do 7.1 in main zone and power 2 speakers in another zone no problemo

Hey Batig. Reading your guide again (I also own a 3310CI). House is a wreck with a major reno-addition, so i can't test everything in advance.

I didn't make my question clear.

Here's a fuller explanation of my situation. I have seven speakers in the new addition and two outside on the deck. I got the 4311 for XT32 and the nine amps to power all nine speakers.

Initially my plan was to set up a 5.1 zone in the family room, a zone 2 in the kitchen to power a pair of speakers and a zone 3 for the outside pair.

My kitchen and family room are in the same space, however, in an open-concept layout. So the kitchen speakers will be installed in a location that makes them suitable for BOTH a zone 2 stereo OR as rear surrounds in a 7.1.

I just want to be able to switch the kitchen speakers from ZONE 2, which would be their normal status, to REAR SURROUND when i watch a movie.

Can I do that simply by a quick change in the GUI? Or do I need an A/B selector for the kitchen speakers to provide this dual functionality?
post #17038 of 23170
Did I miss a setting in the manual that would allow for a change to the volume control increments from 0.5dB steps to 1.0dB steps? I don't need that fine of adjustment in my room.
post #17039 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

There is no struggle, there is a single correct solution: You use external amps for zone 2. Period. Boom, you're done. Any other way is going to be an annoying kludge workaround.

That is a good way of putting it...annoying kludge workaround. You guys are right...I got so caught up in trying to utilize as many internal amps as possible that I was ignoring the best solution. Maybe I should buy the matching 5 channel Sherbourn amp (to my 7 channel) like Batpig suggests....see what happens now...lol.
post #17040 of 23170
Well, I didn't want to wait any longer. I found a good deal on the 4311 (1500 euro) in premium silver so I decided to jump on it. To quench my thirst for better gear I decided to throw in a bdp-2012ud and dcd-1510ae cd player as well, also in silver.

Since I'm a dummy and know little about what I'm doing, prepare to be bugged!
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK]