The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 574

Already did--no luck.

Well, since you have Pro, and assuming you saved your Pro measurements to your computer, all is not lost. You can return to a previous calibration by re-loading the measurement file of course.

True---but it's a minor annoyance that 'Save' magically stopped working. Good thing I saved my last pre-Pro settings successfully.

I hear you. It remains a mystery that we are all trying to figure out. Why I can save configurations without any problems, and why you can't--it just doesn't make any sense.

I almost wonder if Pro has something to do with it...

There is no simple correlation irt Save/Load problems for those few for whom Network Standby to OFF doesn't fix it. There have been some reported problems without Pro, and AFAIK most have no problems with Pro, like myself. I had an intermittent the Save/Load problem with my 4310. I have not changed anything in my home network or desktop yet so far the 4311 has been flawless.

Hi Bill. Good question. I've come to like the std Denon remote, which I use along with my ATT HiDef DVR remote. Also, I have become very familiar with the Denon menu as I'm frequently tweaking and doing A/B tests. So my Harmony has been is sitting waiting for me to reprogram it for well over a year while I rapidly changed out equipment.

batpig is our resident Harmony (and Denon) expert. Based on his posts I expect that there will be plenty of commands in the std 4311 database. So it will be a matter of culling and reorganizing the commands and one correction (see this post and the few posts following it.

Do you have an idea of what commands you'd like?
Do other Harmony users have some favorites not found in the data base?

I'm glad we are getting more confirmation as to appreciating DL SQ. Thnx much for the interesting report on use of HDMI to feed MC HiRes into the 4311-that's very cool. I imagine that it would sound a lot like when I used an Oppo to play shiny discs via HDMI, which was pretty good (but not as good as DL).

And thnx for the kind offer to help with my initial stumblings into storing/playing music files, cuz I'll need it.

Just a thought, as I had same issue.

Make sure net/USB is not playing or streaming. Press stop to confirm then goto another input.

I had the save error until I did this.

Hope it helps

Trying it right now, and it just saved the config.dat file---I wonder if I'd inadvertedly just switched inputs rather than hitting "stop" with Net/USB Internet Radio at some point.

Oddly enough, after I did the hard stop, it first hung up with Network Standby=Off, but after trying the On setting and power cycling, it saved the config file. From a quick Notepad check, I'm at least getting non-zero data. I must have found the right offering for the save/load deity. Thanks much!

Back to dealing with OmniMic plot follies,

Stuart

This probably qualifies me as living under a rock for the past few years but ...

A friend brought over some SACD's to try on my system this morning (4311, B&W 603 fronts, 601 rears, CC6 center, Hsu VTF-15 sub, Sony BDP-S790). One of the discs he brought was Brothers In Arms (Dire Straits).

OMG!

I was absolutely blown away on the multichannel layer - the detail, spatial cues and sheer volume of the soundstage was probably the some of the best audio I have ever heard. The Sony was sending DSD directly to the 4311 for decode over HDMI, of course.

My friend who has a far more impressive front channel system than I (Denon AVP, McIntosh mono SS amps, B&W 802D's), commented about how great it sounded and advised me to not think about getting rid of my old B&W's (I have been talking about a change lately). He implied that the soundstage and detail was as good or better than his rig (MultiEQXT only - he has not done the AVP upgrade). Even the bass, which I had thought previously was a little "thumpy" on music, was incredibly tight and "tuneful" with XT32.

The sound field literally expanded to fill my entire great room (with 12' cathedral ceilings) with only a 5.1 setup. I actually had goosebumps at several times throughout the album.

This is a long winded way of saying

1. I have to get some more SACD's - playing the couple I have on the Oppo and 3311 (no DSD input to the AVR) previously was nowhere the religious experience that the SOny, 4311 and XT32 was today.
2. I am blown away by both the XT32 implementation & technology in terms of how expansive and coherent the soundfield now is. Watching my favorite Fifth Element & Iron Man scenes, we were amazed at the sense of acoustic space and low level detail that was never apparent before.
3. I am pleasantly surprised at how much better the amps are in the 4311 compared to the 3311. A lot more headroom and ability to play at/near reference level without feeling I have exceeded the ability of the amp or speakers.

I'll admit there probably isn't anything new (or even useful) in this post, but I just had to evangelize the 4311 and XT32. At the prices this thing is available for now, you have to be crazy not to upgrade - funds permitting of course. Forget the 3313 or 4520 - jump on these deals with both feet. The 3313 will not have the amps the 4311 has, and who knows what corners might be cut in the 4520 (at probably 1.5-2X the current cost of the 4311).

I think I am going to get another set of speaker cables and try bi-amping the front 603's.

Not trying to dampen your enthusiasm, but that Dire Straits SACD is one of the most nastily compressed multichannel SACDs out there. The equivalent if using the Midnight mode for Audyssey Dynamic Volume.

Great review! As far as bi-amping, unless you are getting an active crossover, I think you'd be much better off using the money for more SACDs...

Now that's what I'm talkin about! You really need to have good, timbre-matched speakers to get the most out of XT32.

If you're referring to Dire Straits Brothers in Arms, the 20th Anniv Ed SACD is a classic and very affordable SACD. This thread is a source of great HiRez music suggestions.

irt Sam S's comments, if you want better dynamics and detail, with all the great songwriting and performing, Knofler's DVDA versions of Shangri La and Sailing to Philadelphia are superb.

I have heard good things about the Sony 790 but wonder if replacing it with a Denon DL3 capable player for music, and using a DL cable rather than HDMI would kick your SQ up another notch as it did when I replaced my Oppo? I'm not sure it will play DVDA but Denon and Oppo universal players will. Then again, there's not as much material on DVDA as on SACD and it's a dying medium.

+1

SoM,

Thanks for that information. Maybe many of the discrete codes that are not normally in the Harmony database for Onkyo are available for the 4311. Off the top of my head the additional codes were those for Audyssey, ISF settings and quite a few others.

I will find out first hand about setting up the Harmony on Monday as I just bought a 4311 from Best Buy (Magnolia). BB matched the current sale price from Electronics Expo. I was a bit surprised as the sale price is only available if you call EE and talk to a salesperson. I would much rather deal with BB as they are local (no sales tax) with no interest financing as well.

I have been on the fence for quite awhile on which way to go as far as replacing my Onkyo 886. I was going to wait and see how the Emotiva XMC-1 will play out but I'm not sure about that. Then I was thinking about the Onkyo 818 but I really like to have a 7.1 analog input which the 818 does not have. The Denon 3313 looked interesting but it looks like it will not have XT32 and no 7.1 analog input which rules that out.

So the 4311 it is! I'm looking forward to using XT32 and how it will sound in my room. It should be interesting as it has been awhile since I have owned a Denon (3802). I'm very familiar with the Onkyo menus so I will have to get used to the menu and settings of the 4311.

Bill

Doh! - I meant Brother In Arms, color me clueless!

As far as Sam's comments about "nastily compressed", certainly it is compressed (as almost all pop music is) but I think it is very well done with no obvious compression artifacts due to poor equipment or technique. As a musician and someone with a fair amount of audio engineering experience at the pro level from years ago, my observation is that most people do not understand why compression is used. While it can (and does) be used to "make everything seem loud" for radio, it has some rather euphonic effects on certain instruments and is more often used to elicit a certain sonic flavor. Particular compressors have very distinctive sonic signatures that go beyond altering the dynamic range. Drums would sit poorly in a pop mix and sound "weak" without dynamic processing and the "thickening" added by popular compressors.

I realize that Brothers In Arms is traditional pop engineering (albeit executed to a very high level) and therefore looked down on by the audiophile set, but it is still a fantastic sounding disc of fantastic music IMHO.

I have already ordered the SACD version of Shangri La as well. I am a huge Mark Knopfler fan and have all of the Dire Strait albums as well as all of Knopfler's solo works on regular CD (actually ripped into ALAC in iTunes - got rid of most of my regular CD's last year finally).

I would love Golden Heart and Kill to Get Crimson on multichannel SACD, but alas ...

Cool, welcome Bill! I've never gotten a local BB to match an on-line only price, much less one not in writing- you da man! I also greatly prefer to deal locally when I can, and all my prior Denons were from BB.

Autosetup is actually pretty straightforward. The menu is "unique" but the Menu Map OM p 75 is very useful. The batpig guide is divided into helpful sections should you get stuck. And the guys on this forum are the best irt quick accurate help!

And as you have turned me on to so much good music and equipment over the past few years, you now have a complementary 30 day premium "Call SoundofMind anytime for help with your 4311" membership.

You're talking about mixing compression, whereas the BIA SACD has mastering compression. They took a perfectly good dynamic recoding (just crank up the common 1985 orignal CD) and applied a heavy hand of mastering compression. If you don't mind listening to all your music with the "Midnight" setting for Audyssey, then it will suit you find. If you want to hear the full dynamics of the music, you'll need to look elsewhere. Play the original CD to a loud, rocking volume, then pop in the SACD without the changing the volume on the 4311. You'll see what I mean.

The other Mark Knofler SACDs/DVD-As are all quite extraordinary. Check them out if you have the opportunity.

I think the SQB Touch is a nice solution for an audio only system and am looking at this now for my outdoor zone that is audio only. Does the SQB Touch downmix anything over 96/24? I can build an adequate HTPC that won't downsample for around $450 so I am torn between the simple easy to use SQB Touch with some downsampling on my 192/176.4 HiRez audio files (probably only 15 albums) or avoid any downsampling with the HTPC. I doubt that I would be able to notice any difference in SQ outdoors.

With regards to DL3 with DVDA/SACD playback I notice some difference, better clarity and definition in HF compared to playing my ripped files via foobar and an HTPC. It really isn't enough for me to chase it with alot of money, but with the small investment I made for the used 3910 it is nice to be able to go to that next step. I use my HTPC for 95% of all media playback (BD/DVD movies, Home HD Movies, Family photos/slideshows and ripped audio) because it gives me a very nice interface and I like having the ability to search/filter all of my media. I do have an oppo bd-80 when I just want to pop in the movie disc and watch (was also used for the occassional SACD/DVDA before the 3910 took over those duties). I haven't AB'd the oppo with DL3 as I don't have the patience or the golden ear and trust SOM's conclussion with regards to DenonLink vs HDMI .

I have the Shangri-La SACD as well as the DVD-A and both sound excellent. If you can try to grab the Sailing To Philadelphia DVD-A as well. It is a bit pricey but if you keep your eyes open you might find a good deal. I would love to see Golden Heart and Kill To Get Crimson on MCH SACD/DVD-A as well. I'd add The Ragpicker's Dream to that list as well. I saw MK a few years ago when he was touring for the Get Lucky tour. It was an excellent show with quite a bit of Dire Straits music. One of the best concerts I ever saw was Dire Straits when they were touring for the Love Over Gold album in 1982.

Bill

SoM,

As always thanks for your offer for technical assistance! I will have to definitely check out batpig's guide. Is your hot line open 24/7? Hopefully my calls will not be diverted to your call center over in New Delhi.

Bill

The Sony only plays SACD, not DVD-A, so Sailing to Philadelphia is out for me. Love Over Gold is another great album (the title track is a showpiece and "Industrial Disease" is a great rocker).

A DL-capable player would be nice, but it seems they are quite pricey.

Maybe consider a universal player from Denon or Oppo. The DL equipped players are somewhat pricey but those without it are quite affordable.

Bill

So our discussion about compression touches on two very different area. Those of us with recording experience understand that what makes many instruments like snare, kick, etc., sound "fat n' punchy" is oftentimes plenty of compression.

In contrast, the "loudness wars" are about compression of the overall dynamics of the recording. I am a Spyrogyra fan, but their recordings, like much of the pop/smooth-jazz genre, are unfortunately pretty compressed in that way. When Dire Straits gets going, like most rock bands, there's a tendency for things to all creep towards "10", so that tends to decrease dynamics on busy, rockin mixes. Though I recall some some pretty dynamic, "atmospheric" passages on some cuts on that BIA disc. Knofler's other material that I mentioned certainly has more "space between the notes" which helps highlight overall dynamics.

IMO the masters of maintaining great overall dynamics, clarity, imaging and a great soundstage, plus that punchy compressed kick and electric bass etc., are Steely Dan, (including Donald Fagan's solo efforts). The HiRes is unfortunately pretty much only on DVDA. The MC mixes are superb. See my SD reviews here and DF review here. Speaking of that, Aja is right at the top of my HiRes MC wish list.

Hey Bill-congrats on the new 4311

+1



BTW I purchased the Dire Straits Brothers in Arms SACD and, despite the mastering compression, have enjoyed the 5.1 surround mix on my 4311 very much. There is an out of print DualDisc version 20th anniv BIA that has MLP 96/24 5.1 mix on the DVD side and HDCD on the CD side. I have read reviews that imply the DVD-A DualDisc 5.1 surround mix is not compressed like the SACD is. It is rare and very expensive...

Is there a way to turn off or dim the front panel display?

Pure Direct turns off the Front Panel display, but if you're using manual EQ or XT32 this of course isn't a good option...

I'm using Audyssey and Pure Direct would negate that I believe?