The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 7

Is this also true of the Onkyo 3008/5008?

No Dolby Volume while Audyssey MultEQ XT 32 is running?

Gotta love those protectionist policies....When is Philips going to actually take advantage and start producing quality stuff again? It's been decades.

I have to tell ya that I've never understood the fascination with these "volume equalizing" processes. None of them are terribly worthwhile in the first place IMO, and, oddly enough, I don't seem to get blasted by commercials (with them off) nearly as badly as I used to, for whatever reason. Everyone's mileage varies, I suppose.

As for the 4311's release, let's hope it's not significantly delayed by this XT32 nightmare Onkyo/Integra's going through right now.

Fingers crossed that it's an Onkyo-implementation issue and will be a non-issue for Denon models. gulp.

James

they are incredibly worthwhile if you don't have a living situation which allows for "full" dynamic range. The "loud commercials" syndrome is oft-cited but is not really the main use of these volume leveling processes. As you note, this problem is already getting better on its own, anyway, as broadcasters are finally improving (probably enough complaints from customers!)

but if you live in an apartment, or the kids/wife are sleeping, and you are doing the late night "volume creep" where you keep inching it up to hear the dialog, and then have to make a panicked lunge for the remote when the explosions start before someone starts yelling at you..... this technology is invaluable

Before Dynamic Volume (and I assume now Dolby Volume, based on the reviews) the only option you had in these situations was some horrible compression scheme like DRC or "Night Mode" which just squished all the dynamics out of everything, making it sound flat and lifeless. But Dyn Vol doesn't do this, it is very impressive in maintaining dynamics / sound quality while mitigating huge swings in volume.

obviously, it's not like Dynamic EQ where it improves the sound quality at all times. It's a "use as needed" technology... but for those of us who DO need it, it's a huge boon!

page 59 illustrates the Denon "2-ch" mode, which allows for you to have a full multichannel speaker setup and then have a SEPARATE pair of "B" front speakers which you switch to for dedicated 2-ch listening. They are NOT "wide" speakers, they are an alternate pair of FRONT speakers.

Denon chose to illustrate them right next to the "A" front speakers, but they are absolutely not the "wide" speakers in a DSX setup, they could just as easily be in another room. Notice how they are labeled FL / FL' and FR / FR' in the diagram.

The point of this feature is to allow you to easily alternate between two different speaker setups, one multichannel, one 2-channel. For example, somebody might have a sub / sat 7.1 speaker setup in the living room, but they still have a big pair of old tower speakers that they love for 2-ch music in the den. This mode allows you to switch between your two setups (multich versus the separate 2-ch rig) automatically depending on the surround mode.

However, it requires that you devote one set of the "beyond 5.1" speaker terminals (height, wide, or surr.back) to the "alternate" front speakers, meaning you max out at 9.x for your multichannel setup.

In order to run an 11.x setup, you set AMP ASSIGN to "11ch", but this is mutually exclusive with the configuration on pg 59. Switching from "11ch" mode to a situation where the "wide" speakers are playing 2-ch stereo would require you delving deep into the menus and reconfiguring your amp assign / speaker settings every time you wanted to switch.

So, if you were willing to run a 9-ch setup, and sacrifice one of the surr.back / height / wide speakers, then you could do as you intend. But it still would not be "toggling" the wide speakers with FL/FR for stereo. The two dedicated "2-ch" speakers would be silent during any multichannel use, and would only activate (with all the other speakers going silent) when you switch to "STEREO / DIRECT" mode for 2-ch listening.

Does that make more sense?



I'm not sure if you literally mean you will physically move the speakers when your wife wants to listen to 2-ch, but, ideally, you don't want to be moving speakers around once they are configured / calibrated. The Audyssey MultEQ corrects for your room acoustics and moving speakers while change that equation.

While your explanation reads like an ad for Audyssey or Dolby volume I haven't found them to be nearly THAT game-changing, although I also do not think them completey meritless either, so I'm sure there's a middle ground between viewpoints.

To be sure, we DO agree though that those who do enjoy it (Dyn Vol) being forced to "lose" XT32 when it is implemented is a raw deal.

Perhaps an issue that can be addresssed through a f-ware update down the road?

James

well, it's not "them", it's only "it", Dolby Volume. Obviously, Audyssey Dynamic Volume doesn't force you to "lose" XT32!!

I'm still hoping that it is a typo in the manual and they are referring to the fact that you can't use Dynamic EQ / Vol when using Dolby Volume (which would make sense as they are redundant), and that you still keep the MultEQ correction filters.

I meant "IT", twice. Apparently I got it right in the second half of the sentence. Well, we'll find out soon enough I suppose. Your explanation makes snese, I haven't read exactly how it's worded, that would give a better idea as to whether it's likely a typo or a specific criteria that someone took the time to include. It's Denon though, so it's prolly 50/50, lol.

James

Now I am leaning toward Anthem MRX 500

^ Outside of their proprietary room correction (which may be superior to Audyssey), may I ask why? To me it seems terrifically "understaffed" connectivity-wise and under-featured at the price point...although I know less-features and technology somehow infers "superior sound" to some (see NAD slurpers) .

God bless ya if you can "survive" on 4 HDMIs. Seems to me a cable box, blu-ray player, video game sys, and media player already push it to the max for many users.

James

Nah, that won't work for me. Thx for the suggestion though. I have two Harmony remotes but those are for the TV and peripherals. I use iPhones/iPads for controlling iTunes via the remote app. The new Denon iPhone app looks good and a 2 step process isn't going to kill me.

But if these things would hurry up and ship I'd be able to test it all out and see if there's an elegant way to do what I want

I had the Denon 4310, and I am wandering how much of a step up the 4311 will be in SQ. I use my AVR to two things movies and music. I want those two things with any issues. For HDMI Oppo and LCD

^ To be honest, I thought your current methodology was pretty decent, imo. At the very least, incoporating an amplifier that worked the way I described would relieve you of your (sometimes) 28 hour listening sessions.

James

Well, if you're wAndering, don't let me bother you. J/K

It sounds like you'll be using the internal amplifiers, so that's prolly going to be a wait-and-see affair, but my experience with Denon AVRs, coupled with the addition of XT 32 (properly working of course) would lead me to believe at least the possibility for an UPtick in SQ, not a degradation. But I realize physical WEIGHT many times fools people ear's so...

We shall soon see, I suppose.

James

B&K AMP 200wpc

just found this on the hometheatershack.com site. I don't know how true it is as it's the first time I saw a price connected with the A-100
Hello,
As part of Denon's celebration of its 100th Anniversary, they have released a Lineup of Limited Edition Components. They are all priced at $2,499 and will only be available at select Denon Dealers.

Here is the link to the AVR:http://www.denon100.com/#/en/products/receiver
Very comprehensive Feature Set including Audyssey MultEQ XT 32, HDMI 1.4, 9 Channels of Amplification rated at 140 Watts, "a unique Block Condenser", Cast Iron Footing, Upgraded Binding Posts, and more.

Given the weight is under 40 Pounds, I am somewhat spurious that it will come anywhere close to offering 140 Watts to 9 Channels, but it does look like a very nice AVR.

In other Denon News, the AVR-4311 is going to offer a Preamp Mode where the Internal Amplifiers are shut off.
This is an awesome feature for those of us who use outboard Amplification for all Channels, but use an AVR.
Cheers,
JJ

Read more: Denon AVR-A100 100th Anniversary AVR - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com Link:http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...rsary-avr.html

Can anyone explain what is the true benefit of being able to shut off the amps? With an infinite load, they aren't drawing too much current.

Wow. So with internal amplification taken out of the equation (at least mostly, it appears) what do you suppose could/will be the difference-maker from a SQ standpoint?

My first inclination as to your questioning the Denon's SQ in comparison to the Anthem was perhaps the more stout amplifier section of the Anthem, but now you have really piqued my interest, as I'd imagine the pre-amp output stages and DAC's to be all but indistinguishable at this price-level, especially if you plan to use the 4311 in pre-amp mode.

James

Three reasons:
- idle current, because the amps are of the class A/B type and are always loaded even if the speakers are disconnected
- heat dissipation because of this idle current
- power supply load

I guess that we/I will have to wait and see.

Brian

The sonic benefits are arguable at best, IMO. Theories (even relevant ones, lol) abound as to why (it sounds (or should sound) better), but whether they (sound quality increases) are actually PERCEPTIBLE in the real world is, as always of course, the key.

In this case though, it will be easy enough to compare, as the pre-outs are "live" and many of us with externally amplified systems can easily switch back and forth between pre-amp and "non" pre-amp modes to see if we can discern an audible difference. Dollars to donuts sez we cannot, blindly, but I'm sure a % will rail against such an assertion.

You can bet that I have such an opportunity with my array, and I will be experimenting.

From another aspect, you could make the argument that you're extending the life of the amplifer sections AND conserving energy, but, ha ha, if you were REALLY about conserving energy, you would prolly not be hooking it up to a more POWERFUL, and in some cases, MULTIPLE external amplifiers, lol.

James

Dynamic volume is one of my now "must have" features. With kids and watching a show late at night, it is something I just can't live without. So, I am a plus 100 (not 1) on Batpigs comment.

My two cents - You may hear the difference when one or more factors are in play:

You have all other parts of the audio chain at the very highest levels (Krell amps and Wilson speakers etc.)

You listening postion is perfectly placed in the sweet spot

The mental perception of "knowing that the sound is following the cleanest signal path possible from playback source all the way to your ears. Don't forget to have the granite weights on top of your speakers and CD player - not to mention the sorbathane feet on all the equipment and all 10-gauge wire to the speakers. For me the mental perception is a curse that I live with - even though I can only sometimes hear the difference between various changes to the system. This IS a strange hobby!

I'm very interested in a professional review of the 4311 with actual measurements of the unit's performance.

I expect everyone reading this thread is.

Totally. Sure, I prefer reference when I can get it, but my neighbors are much, much happier now that I use dynamic volume at night (Willy Mays, RIP, is probably a little bummed). That feature has spared me from so much trouble...

-Noob

You can rest assured it will not output 140w's a channel with all channels driven. 80-100 is prolly much more realistic. Less than a 3db difference in output anyway.

James

Anybody see this article? Not sure where the info came from on the firmware update to support airplay:

http://nexus404.com/Blog/2010/09/09/...lay-this-fall/

**Edit looks like they got it from Engadget: http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/09/d...-this-fall-th/

well, we do have a frame of reference in bench tests of the 4310 and 4810 (from HTMag):

AVR 4310 (rated at 130W/ch) into 8-ohms:

2ch driven = 155 W/ch
5ch driven = 114 W/ch
7ch driven = 105 W/ch

AVR 4810 (rated at 140 W/ch) into 8-ohm:

2ch driven = 168 W/ch
5ch driven = 124 W/ch
7ch driven = 31 W/ch (current limiter kicks in)

This is consistent with other higher-end Denon models. Since the 4311 is the same as the 4810 in having 9 channels, one would assume it also has some sort of current limiter (same as the high-end Onkyo models too). It is pretty safe to assume that it will exceed its rating with only 2-ch driven, and be good for near its rated power with 5+ channels driven, until the current limiter kicks in.

Sound & Vision found the same thing with the 4810:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/con...n-avr-4810ci-1

They have a slightly different methodology and rated the 4810 at 132 W/ch with 5ch driven and 60W/ch when the current limiter kicked in.


I wouldn't expect anything different with the 4311, especially considering the weight gain to 38lbs.