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The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 605

post #18121 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by mythossohtym View Post

Anyone know of a good 9.2 AVR with airplay and dedicated zone 2 subwoofer connection?

Already answered you the other place you posted the exact same question.
post #18122 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Depends what you mean. You could do as roger suggested (if you want the volume to still say "0" at reference) or just use the Dyn EQ ref level offset and set it to 5db.

I don't think adjusting DEQ RLO affects master volume. However, adjusting Source Level (analog or digital, depending on the source) will accomplish what the OP wants, on a per-input basis. Roger's suggestion also accomplishes the objective, although for all inputs.
post #18123 of 23136
^Jerry, RLO works in the same way as the input level trim; essentially there's no diff.

Engaging RLO =10 at MV -20, for ex., causes you to crank the MV up to -10 and since DEQ "knows" the MV level, it thinks you're listening at -10 and so does not apply as much DEQ boost effect to the low freqs and surrounds. On the earliest DEQ units, like my 2809 there was no RLO yet, and that's exactly what Chris (audyssey) had us do to adjust DEQ "intensity".

As to the OP, with either method suggested, he's affecting DEQ.
post #18124 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by natedog619 View Post

I'm having a weird problem with the front HDMI (7) input on 4311.
Using my camcorder (Panasonic TM 700) I get video but no audio when using the V aux HDMI input on the front of the 4311. So I tried the camcorder plugged into the HDMI game input and it works fine - audio and video. I then plugged the PS3 into the front HDMI input and it works fine - audio and video. Put the camcorder back in the front input and no audio.
So the camcorder works fine as long as I don't use the front input and the front input works fine if I use something other than the camcorder.
Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong?
Thanks

Likely nothing. The HDMI inputs will sometimes work with one device and not another (due to different signal paths) which is why we suggest when having issues with a device to try "ALL" the HDMI inputs and the one that works. If you have an HDMI switch or splitter, try placing it between the Aux jack and the camera, otherwise, you may want to rig up a short 2' HDMI extension cable from one of the back HDMI jacks for easier on-the-fly connection of the camera.
post #18125 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Jerry, RLO works in the same way as the input level trim; essentially there's no diff.

I know how RLO works, SoM. if you read the OP, it's not clear whether the objective is lower absolute volume level, or reduced DEQ impact. The input level adjustment would be used for the former, to balance absolute volume levels between inputs, for example. I think it would be useful for the OP to clarify what he is trying to accomplish.
post #18126 of 23136
^Jerry, I was simply providing some info irt your statement:
"I don't think adjusting DEQ RLO affects master volume".

As to the OP, apparently we're spending more time on this than he is. biggrin.gif
Cheers
SoM
post #18127 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by natedog619 View Post

I'm having a weird problem with the front HDMI (7) input on 4311.
Using my camcorder (Panasonic TM 700) I get video but no audio when using the V aux HDMI input on the front of the 4311. So I tried the camcorder plugged into the HDMI game input and it works fine - audio and video. I then plugged the PS3 into the front HDMI input and it works fine - audio and video. Put the camcorder back in the front input and no audio.
So the camcorder works fine as long as I don't use the front input and the front input works fine if I use something other than the camcorder.
Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong?
Thanks

Likely nothing. The HDMI inputs will sometimes work with one device and not another (due to different signal paths) which is why we suggest when having issues with a device to try "ALL" the HDMI inputs and the one that works. If you have an HDMI switch or splitter, try placing it between the Aux jack and the camera, otherwise, you may want to rig up a short 2' HDMI extension cable from one of the back HDMI jacks for easier on-the-fly connection of the camera.

agreed with the above....

one thing to note... if you have an issue with a "shortie" cable (like the 2 footer referenced above), try one that is 6 feet long... this may seem counterintuitive... shorter has always been better when it comes to hdmi... however, due to the way that newer hdmi chipsets are optimized, shorter cables can (and do) cause rather unexpected hdmi woes....
post #18128 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Not sure what you have available local but you can find mic/boom stands at most music stores.
I discovered that a telescoping boom was better as it allowed me more flexibility to take readings (mine extends to 47") and be sure to get a stand/base that has some reasonable extension, I ended up with one that extends to 65".
Something like this should do well... http://www.amazon.com/Musicians-Gear-Tripod-Stand-Telescoping/dp/B001G457BQ/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1339962611&sr=1-2&keywords=telescoping+boom
The adapter will be something like this... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001GWCC4I/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000GF7ZZM&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1QN4038GQ0Z9GDS3KJJG
or what I did was to grab a mini tripod like this... http://www.amazon.com/Polaroid-Tripod-Digital-Cameras-Camcorders/dp/B004OAFO0I and a standard mic clip will hold it if you simply keep all the arms together and pop it into the clip.
Best of luck,
Jason

Hi Jason,

Thanks for your reply and especially the link to the Camera adaptor, that's the item I was thinking of.

I think a MIC boom would offer more flexibility versus a mini tripod?
e.g. a boom would allow me to position the Denon Mic directly over the seating position at ear height whereas I image I'd need to place a mini tripod on the sofa for example?
I currently have an Anthem MRX300 which comes with a boom that allows me to position the mic over the main seatign area but I'm returning it and it might be returned before I recieve my 4311 from Germany ( DHL advise 7-9 days elivery.)

Thanks,
Stuart
post #18129 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneill View Post


Hi Jason,

I think a MIC boom would offer more flexibility versus a mini tripod?
 

 

Not Jason, but yes, a boom generally offers the most flexibility in mic placement.  I have a boom as well as a tripod, and always use the boom for calibrations.

post #18130 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Jerry, RLO works in the same way as the input level trim; essentially there's no diff.

there IS a difference, and it's the one Jerry noted -- adjust input trim will affect MV, and RLO will not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Depends what you mean. You could do as roger suggested (if you want the volume to still say "0" at reference) or just use the Dyn EQ ref level offset and set it to 5db.

I don't think adjusting DEQ RLO affects master volume. However, adjusting Source Level (analog or digital, depending on the source) will accomplish what the OP wants, on a per-input basis. Roger's suggestion also accomplishes the objective, although for all inputs.

well, I'm not exactly clear on what the OP wants. Are you?
post #18131 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

there IS a difference, and it's the one Jerry noted -- adjust input trim will affect MV, and RLO will not.
well, I'm not exactly clear on what the OP wants. Are you?

Yes, my apologies. My statement should have been "RLO works in the same way as the input level trim irt DEQ; essentially there's no diff." Rereading the posts I see now why Jerry reacted the way he did to that sentence of mine. The ambiquity of the OP aside, my apologies for not following this discussion more closely as it appears my posts were pretty irrelevent to that discussion.
post #18132 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Not Jason, but yes, a boom generally offers the most flexibility in mic placement.  I have a boom as well as a tripod, and always use the boom for calibrations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneill View Post

Hi Jason,
Thanks for your reply and especially the link to the Camera adaptor, that's the item I was thinking of.
I think a MIC boom would offer more flexibility versus a mini tripod?
e.g. a boom would allow me to position the Denon Mic directly over the seating position at ear height whereas I image I'd need to place a mini tripod on the sofa for example?
I currently have an Anthem MRX300 which comes with a boom that allows me to position the mic over the main seatign area but I'm returning it and it might be returned before I recieve my 4311 from Germany ( DHL advise 7-9 days elivery.)
Thanks,
Stuart

I have neither and decided to order 1 the other day to calibrate XT 32. I think a tripod would work quite well and decided to go for one over a mic stand boom + adapter because I know i'd never use the boom ever again outside of Audyssey. I can see a regular tripod (I went for a 60" one) proving useful in other ways somewhere down the line, at least for me.
post #18133 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

there IS a difference, and it's the one Jerry noted -- adjust input trim will affect MV, and RLO will not.
well, I'm not exactly clear on what the OP wants. Are you?

OKI, here is my issue:

I have 4 ohm speakers and a treated room. In the 4311 when Audyssey is run and completed, it sets the mains and center trims at -12 but the db output is not the same for all three. Left db is at 75, Right db is at 73, and center db is at 72. I have adjusted the db a near the same as possible and the audio is clearer but not as dynamic as the original settings. I don't know if the db output is not the same due to the 4311 running out of volume settings (-12)? If reference can be moved, will the voume settings be moved and will the db output be more accurate? This is the best that I can do as far as a explanation goes.
post #18134 of 23136
ahh, OK. The issue is overly sensitive speakers causing Audyssey to run out of room to "trim" them to reference level.

since you don't have enough trim room to get them all at 75dB, what you should do then is use the SPL meter to trim all the speakers to 80dB. Although note than many people get readings a few dB lower with SPL meters than how Audyssey sets them, part of this is due to the relative (absolute) accuracy of the SPL meter, and part is due to the method Audyssey uses to set SPL being slightly different than the standard "pink noise" test tones.

It is very typical for people (myself included) to measure 72-73dB with the SPL meter post Audyssey. So my suspicion is that the R and C speakers are pretty close to correct whereas the L speakers needs a couple dB more attenuation.

anyway, you can't "really" know, so the best you can do (short of purchasing in-line attenuators) is use the SPL meter and set all speakers to 80dB as noted above. That brings us back to the initial question -- everything will be 5dB too loud as far as Dynamic EQ is concerned. So, then you can move onto the solutions noted above... you can use the "source level" input trims to turn down each input by 5dB, which will restore "0" as the reference level on the master volume, or you can use Dynamic EQ RLO to compensate (e.g., if you set the DEQ RLO to "5dB" then Dynamic EQ will perform correctly, but -5dB will be "reference" on the MV dial).
post #18135 of 23136
^^^

Thank you, this will help with my problem.

Bill
post #18136 of 23136
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

^^^
Thank you, this will help with my problem.
Bill

Others who have reported the issue you have ended up purchasing in-line signal attenuators, as Batpig mentions. After installing the attenuators, the Audyssey Calibration results in trim levels that are not maxed out, as you are seeing. The attenuators are inexpensive, and can be purchased from Parts Express, for example.
post #18137 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Yes, my apologies. My statement should have been "RLO works in the same way as the input level trim irt DEQ; essentially there's no diff." Rereading the posts I see now why Jerry reacted the way he did to that sentence of mine. The ambiquity of the OP aside, my apologies for not following this discussion more closely as it appears my posts were pretty irrelevent to that discussion.

No apology necessary, SoM, and no offense taken. Now that we know what Bsoko2's issue is, our responses were completely off target.
post #18138 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Others who have reported the issue you have ended up purchasing in-line signal attenuators, as Batpig mentions. After installing the attenuators, the Audyssey Calibration results in trim levels that are not maxed out, as you are seeing. The attenuators are inexpensive, and can be purchased from Parts Express, for example.

Tons of them on PE so just what am I looking for?

Bill
post #18139 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneill View Post

Hi Jason,
Thanks for your reply and especially the link to the Camera adaptor, that's the item I was thinking of.
I think a MIC boom would offer more flexibility versus a mini tripod?
e.g. a boom would allow me to position the Denon Mic directly over the seating position at ear height whereas I image I'd need to place a mini tripod on the sofa for example?
I currently have an Anthem MRX300 which comes with a boom that allows me to position the mic over the main seatign area but I'm returning it and it might be returned before I recieve my 4311 from Germany ( DHL advise 7-9 days elivery.)
Thanks,
Stuart

You're welcome. smile.gif

When I suggested the mini tri-pod it was meant to be in addition to the boom stand. It can be used instead of the other 1/4-20 camera adapter because a standard mic clip will hold the mini tri-pod.

* This was my solution so that I could get going quickly without having to order anything online and wait for it to show up, found everything local for about the same $ as ordering online.

The mini tri-pod has a little plastic piece that you'll want to secure or remove to avoid any possible noise interaction. It's the part used to tighten the 1/4-20 ball and there is just a small pin that slides out to remove it. I then used a small allen wrench to adjust & tighten.

Like this...

700

Jason
Edited by DaGamePimp - 6/18/12 at 3:11pm
post #18140 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post


Tons of them on PE so just what am I looking for?
Bill

 

The discussions were in the Audyssey Pro Installer Kit thread.  Here is one reference:

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1346723/the-audyssey-pro-installer-kit-thread/2400#post_22034873

post #18141 of 23136
So I would need 4 sets of these http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=266-244 and plug them into the RCA in's on the amp? That is one per speaker (7 speakers) and 1 for the subwoofer (sub out line)?
.
post #18142 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

So I would need 4 sets of these http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=266-244 and plug them into the RCA in's on the amp? That is one per speaker (7 speakers) and 1 for the subwoofer (sub out line)?
.

Edit: I re-read your original post, and I may have given you wrong advice. The attenuators are line-level devices, designed to be inserted between the AVR and an external amp. Unless you have an amp, they are not applicable.
Edited by AustinJerry - 6/18/12 at 10:25pm
post #18143 of 23136
Is there an easy way to "recall" various settings such as trims, surround parameter adjustments, etc.? Through an Oppo 83 I'm listening to a DTS CD with levels that are all over the map, and after making a ton of tweaks to get it to sound decent I want to revert back to how I had it before. Evidently I was under the false assumption that since Quick Select will remember main volume and DEQ settings then it would also remember trim levels, etc. I'm not normally a tweaker with discs but this is a rough homemade Led Zeppelin IV 5.1 DTS CD I picked up off eBay that needs finessing.
post #18144 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Edit: I re-read your original post, and I may have given you wrong advice. The attenuators are line-level devices, designed to be inserted between the AVR and an external amp. Unless you have an amp, they are not applicable.

I am using the 4311 as a prepro. Amps are Sunfire Signature Cinema and since the JTR mains and center are 4 ohm, the amps max at 810 wpc. so, I think that it will work and thanks for the advice. Ordered the attenuators from PE and should get them in a couple of days.

Bill
post #18145 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Ordered the attenuators from PE and should get them in a couple of days.
Bill
I am using these between my A100 and Emotiva amps. They work well, but are close to 2" long, so you will need room behind them. I have Blue Jeans interconnects, so the combination was rather long. I ended up putting right angle adapters on the amps.
post #18146 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

So I would need 4 sets of these http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=266-244 and plug them into the RCA in's on the amp? That is one per speaker (7 speakers) and 1 for the subwoofer (sub out line)?
.
No need for an attenuator on the sub preout as the sub has its own vol control. You are prompted during the Autosetup process to adjust that control to bring the sub output close to 75dB, well within the adjustable range of the ch level trims. A good level to shoot for irt the sub ch trim is +/-3 dB.
post #18147 of 23136
I had some time this morning to do a DSD vs. PCM LFE HDMI bitstream comparison using my 83SE. I used the track So Far Away from the Dire Straits Brothers In Arms SACD. I did what I consider a very basic comparison leaving all my settings with Audyssey and crossovers as I would normally listen. Using my trusty Rat Shack SPL meter to level match the MV of both the DSD and the PCM settings. I found that the PCM setting was 2dB louder so for each comparison I adjusted the MV to reflect the difference. I shut of my my amp so that only the sub was playing and found that the LFE level for DSD was about 8dB lower than the PCM setting. I checked the SPL readings several times making sure everything was correct for all my comparisons. So it appears that in my system and as others have found that the LFE signal is lower when chosing the DSD setting. So from now on I will be using the PCM setting when listening to MCH SACDs. I should be receiving the 2930 tomorrow so when I have the time I will try this comparison using DL3 to see if the same issue exsists.

Bill
post #18148 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post

Is there an easy way to "recall" various settings such as trims, surround parameter adjustments, etc.? Through an Oppo 83 I'm listening to a DTS CD with levels that are all over the map, and after making a ton of tweaks to get it to sound decent I want to revert back to how I had it before. Evidently I was under the false assumption that since Quick Select will remember main volume and DEQ settings then it would also remember trim levels, etc. I'm not normally a tweaker with discs but this is a rough homemade Led Zeppelin IV 5.1 DTS CD I picked up off eBay that needs finessing.

You could use the web interface to upload a saved profile. This is a lot of work, just to listen to one disc, however.


Speaking of profiles, have any of you had profiles randomly drop back to an earlier version? When I got my 4311, I saved a few profiles as I tweaked my connections and setup. I loaded my last profile about 3 weeks ago. Last night, I noticed some of my inputs didn't have sound, etc. After some troubleshooting, I could tell that the 4311 was using a profile from about 4 weeks ago, not the most recent profile from 3 weeks ago. I made the necessary tweaks to the current config, then saved that, as opposed to trying to reload an old profile.

I believe this is the second time it has happened to me. Any one else? I don't plan on changing/saving/uploading profiles very often from here on out, so I hope it is a minor glitch.
post #18149 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I had some time this morning to do a DSD vs. PCM LFE HDMI bitstream comparison using my 83SE. I used the track So Far Away from the Dire Straits Brothers In Arms SACD. I did what I consider a very basic comparison leaving all my settings with Audyssey and crossovers as I would normally listen. Using my trusty Rat Shack SPL meter to level match the MV of both the DSD and the PCM settings. I found that the PCM setting was 2dB louder so for each comparison I adjusted the MV to reflect the difference. I shut of my my amp so that only the sub was playing and found that the LFE level for DSD was about 8dB lower than the PCM setting. I checked the SPL readings several times making sure everything was correct for all my comparisons. So it appears that in my system and as others have found that the LFE signal is lower when chosing the DSD setting. So from now on I will be using the PCM setting when listening to MCH SACDs. I should be receiving the 2930 tomorrow so when I have the time I will try this comparison using DL3 to see if the same issue exsists.
Bill

Thanks for running this test and confirming the same results as I had, Bill.  AFAICT, there should be no difference in sound quality, as the Oppo surely does a very creditable job in converting to PCM.

post #18150 of 23136
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Thanks for running this test and confirming the same results as I had, Bill.  AFAICT, there should be no difference in sound quality, as the Oppo surely does a very creditable job in converting to PCM.

Jerry,

My pleasure smile.gif. I wanted to try it to see if in fact it effected my system as well. This is an odd bug that I have no idea what could be the cause of it. If the 4311 had a setting to increase the LFE signal for just DSD would be the answer I guess. I'm sure the SQ for MCH SACDs with the PCM setting will be fine. I found leaving it on the DSD setting was easier as I like to listen to 2CH SACDs in DSD Direct. So now I'll change the setting with the 83SE depending on the SACD I'm listening to which is no big deal.

I decided to play the BIA SACD straight through and on the bass heavy track Ride Across the River I decided to switch between DSD and PCM. It really was clearly audible with this song playing that the LFE level was much lower with the DSD setting. This was with my amp back on and at fairly loud volume. On a side note I decided to switch to the BIA DVD-A (96k surround) and IMO the DVD-A is the much better sounding version.

Bill
Edited by Bill Mac - 6/19/12 at 7:53am
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK]