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The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 630

post #18871 of 21934
8/13/12 at 1:26pm
^^^

i'm sorry, but i'm completely lost here... confused.gif
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #18872 of 21934
8/13/12 at 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mde8965 View Post

Indulge me please...
I currently have the 3311ci. Had it for about a year+ now. It really hasn't given me any issues. But lets say I can get a 4311ci for right around $1k from an authorized dealer. Im trying to figure out if upgrading and selling the 3311ci would be even mildly worth it in your opinion of course. Here is what I have:
Currently running the 3311ci with an Emo XPA-5 driving the front 3 channels (bi-amped the fromt L+R as to use all channels)
5.2 system consisting of:
Paradigm Studio 100's V2 (FL + FR)
Paradigm Studio CC-590 center
Polk Monitor 40 surrounds (upgrade in the works to used Studio 40's)
1 Rythmik F15 sub
1 Emo Ultra 12 sub
Room Size 14 x 20 with 48" opening to dining/living room
Mostly watch Action and horror movies on my Oppo- BDP93 (30%), TV 30% and Music (Pop, Rock and Gospel) 40%.
Room is mildly treated.
Music is kept at fairly moderate levels. However, my movies, I like it loud and abnixious.
I have had a heck of a time EQing my subs correctly. I do not own measuring equipment other than an RS meter.
In my situation would the upgrade from XT to XT32 be worth the price of admission in your opinion? I've also considered the idea of ditching the amp, but I really have not experimented with using the amp verses the AVR to drive my speaker set. If I come to find out the Emo is not providing any tangible benefit to my ears, then selling the 3311ci and the Emo would likely pay for the upgrade....Just random thoughts...perhaps trying to justify upgrading to the AVR I wanted in the first place when I bought the 3311ci...
Thanks.

Thanks for all the replies. My connection for the quoted price of $1k went away (sold out). Can someone please let me know or PM me where I can get this AVR for the best deal they know of right now or a ballpark. You've convinced me to make the move. And I will likely call EE tomorrow. But wondering if that is the best place to call or what I should be trying for in terms of $$$. Thanks again!!
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post #18873 of 21934
8/13/12 at 5:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus00 View Post

For tv the video is on zone 1 tv and the audio is available on zone 1 and zone 2 currently.
same for dvd player. it plays on zone 1 tv and audio goes thru zone 1 and zone 2 if i turn it on that way.
why cant i do the same for computer playback?
maybe the other hdmi's like "PC" and "game" are different types/limited and are only available for zone 1??
Maybe if I unplug the dvd hdmi and put the computer hdmi in there it will work since it works for the dvd player,
I was hoping that the denon hdmi's would have more of them that allow that type of setup.

Your post is a bit confusing as it implies you're passing HDMI audio to Zone 2. The only way to get audio to Zone 2 from external sources is by also connecting either an analog or optical or digital coax cable in addition to the HDMI cable. HDMI sources will not pass to Zone 2.
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post #18874 of 21934
8/13/12 at 7:32pm
yes that is confusing sorry, hdmi only is what i need for that very important function that many mulitzone fetishists desire.
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post #18875 of 21934
8/14/12 at 4:55am
^^^

well, unfortunately, your "need" is going to be unfulfilled... while it may be "very important" to you, the reality is that you are a very small minority, and the cost to the cem to make you happy isn't worth it...

personally, i gave up on multi-zone audio from a single avr a long time ago... it's a concept that time has passed by... it's rather easy to place a cheap craigslist avr (or cheap parts express amp) and a streaming device whereever you need one, rather than attempting to jump through hoops...
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post #18876 of 21934
8/14/12 at 5:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

I installed a Lumagen Radiance XS3D this past weekend, and cannot get the 4311 GUI to appear on-screen. I'm not sure what component is at fault, given my recent microprocessor reset and re-loading of the configuration. I would like to think that since the GUI was working on the configuration I had saved in March and then re-loaded last weekend, that the issue is with the Radiance. However, it is probably best to take nothing for granted, since I was playing around with the settings to try and get the GUI to display. I realize the simplest way to narrow down the issue would be to remove the Radiance from the equation, but I cannot, as my projector requires a video processor to drive it. I am also seeking assistance in the Radiance thread for things to try.
I searched through the 4311 manual, and did not find much to help me. So, I thought the internal video processing was a good place to start. In order for the GUI to display, does Video Convert need to be on? Can i/p scaler be off?
Thanks.
Mark

I performed a soft reset (pulled the power cord) on the 4311, and now the GUI is working with the Radiance.

Thanks.

Mark
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post #18877 of 21934
8/14/12 at 5:23am
^^^

cool! smile.gif

wonder what it was?

finding your way around the radiance yet? it's a nifty little piece... smile.gif if you like to "play", the possibilities are endless...
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post #18878 of 21934
8/14/12 at 6:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

I performed a soft reset (pulled the power cord) on the 4311, and now the GUI is working with the Radiance.
Thanks.
Mark

Mark, just curious, when you pulled the plug on the 4311, did that require re-loading the configuration? Every time my 4311 loses power, it also loses its configuration. If this happens to me, but not to you, I wonder why...
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post #18879 of 21934
8/14/12 at 6:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Mark, just curious, when you pulled the plug on the 4311, did that require re-loading the configuration? Every time my 4311 loses power, it also loses its configuration. If this happens to me, but not to you, I wonder why...
That suggests that the RAM that's used to store the configuration has a battery backup of some sort that has failed. One would think they'd be using non-volatile storage (so the data would remain after a power loss) for this though.
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post #18880 of 21934
8/14/12 at 7:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
well, unfortunately, your "need" is going to be unfulfilled... while it may be "very important" to you, the reality is that you are a very small minority, and the cost to the cem to make you happy isn't worth it...
personally, i gave up on multi-zone audio from a single avr a long time ago... it's a concept that time has passed by... it's rather easy to place a cheap craigslist avr (or cheap parts express amp) and a streaming device whereever you need one, rather than attempting to jump through hoops...

Dont think I'd be able to set up another avr and integrate it into the system and need both zones to work together. I'm pretty much done running cables through walls. Currently have hdmi rca ethernet balun in kitchen. I plug laptop via hdmi into balun and then optical out from laptop via miniplug which extends to rca plug into balun for the computer audio. Of course I have hdmi extenders on both ends. There's also a Muxlab Quad Video Balun 500032 device which is connected to pc rca jack on back of receiver in my rack. That optical out port from laptop doesnt work well. Maybe there is some other analog interface I can connect to laptop before I plug into rca jack on the balun that would work better. The optical out jack on laptop doesnt sound right and there is a slight hum noise you can hear sometimes. There has to be a better way which is why I have been hoping hdmi only option would be available sometime from manufacturers.
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post #18881 of 21934
8/14/12 at 7:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Mark, just curious, when you pulled the plug on the 4311, did that require re-loading the configuration? Every time my 4311 loses power, it also loses its configuration. If this happens to me, but not to you, I wonder why...

If the unit is functioning properly, you should be able to remove power for at least 1-2 weeks or more and not lose the configuration.
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post #18882 of 21934
8/14/12 at 7:24am
@lotus...

i described the "better way" for you... i have seamless music throughout my house and yard, without having to screw around with a zone kludge...
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post #18883 of 21934
8/14/12 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Mark, just curious, when you pulled the plug on the 4311, did that require re-loading the configuration? Every time my 4311 loses power, it also loses its configuration. If this happens to me, but not to you, I wonder why...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

That suggests that the RAM that's used to store the configuration has a battery backup of some sort that has failed. One would think they'd be using non-volatile storage (so the data would remain after a power loss) for this though.

My 4311 occasionally defaults to an "older" config file, and not always after a complete power loss. I can't even believe it would store an older file in its memory, but I know for sure this happens.
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post #18884 of 21934
8/14/12 at 7:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
cool! smile.gif
wonder what it was?
finding your way around the radiance yet? it's a nifty little piece... smile.gif if you like to "play", the possibilities are endless...

As far as what it was, I can only think that I had recently performed a microprocessor reset, and then re-loaded a saved configuration. I don't remember if the GUI was working after re-loading the saved configuration, but may it wasn't. It's like a computer, I guess, and the soft reset seems to fix various odd issues that come up, when we have ruled out user error or settings issues.

Yes, I am finding my way around the Radiance, and think it will be a nice addition once I get everything else hooked up as planned. I didn't want to do it all at once, as that would be too much to troubleshoot if something goes haywire!

Mark
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post #18885 of 21934
8/14/12 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post


I have an update on my trials and tribulations with saving configuration files.


Friday night, I re-ran Audyssey and successfully saved the configuration file without any special procedures. I verified the file was good using the procedure noted in step 3 of my post above.


Yesterday, I was using the web interface to make various changes to the AVR settings, when I noticed a glitch in the web interface, which made me think that some portion of communication had been lost with the AVR. I suspected that I would not be able to save successfully, so I tried to save the configuration, and it was a bad file. Not only that, but the pop window where you click on save in Internet Explorer 8 came up before ten minutes. All my successful saves seem to take almost exactly ten minutes, as noted in the instructions on the web interface.


I knew I had to do something to fix this issue, so I decided to pull the power plug on the AVR; as predicted by other members of this thread, I was able to succussfully save the configuration and verify the file was good. The only problem is that by pulling the power, the AVR was re-set to the previously saved configuration; I lost the changes I had made, but not my Audyssey calibration, because I had saved sucessfully after that calibration.


I proceeded to re-accomplish the various changes I was making, when I noticed the glitch in the web interface again. Again, I tried to save the configuration, and it was a bad file. Not wanting to re-accomplish the various changes yet again, I decided to try turning off Network Standby, and then re-attempting the save; it worked, and the file was good. This time, I did not lose any of the changes I had made. After the successful save, I went back in to the AVR and turned on Network Standby again.


For those interested in knowing the glitch I noticed in the web interface, read on. I was making changes to the Audyssey Reference Level Offset (RLO) on two inputs. The RLO setting is in the Audio Adjust Menu, in the Audyssey (or something like that) sub-menu. I had changed the RLO setting to "5" on the BD input, then went to the DVR input to change that RLO setting to "15".


I went back to the BD input to change something else in that sub-menu which I had forgotten, and the RLO was showing "15". I tried to change it back to "5", and the web interface updated the page, but the setting remained at "15". I went downstairs to check in the AVR menu directly, and the setting was still "5".


I hope this helps someone.


Mark

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Mark, just curious, when you pulled the plug on the 4311, did that require re-loading the configuration? Every time my 4311 loses power, it also loses its configuration. If this happens to me, but not to you, I wonder why...

Jerry,

I did not think to verify if that occurred (I will make a note to check it), as I have been mired in all this testing and troubleshooting the issues. However, it (reseting to a prior configuration, not reversion to factory default settings) has happened to me, as noted in the post above. It was hard to find that post without the advanced search capability in the thread...can't wait for them to fix that issue!

Mark
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post #18886 of 21934
8/14/12 at 8:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post


If the unit is functioning properly, you should be able to remove power for at least 1-2 weeks or more and not lose the configuration.

 

I would think so as well, JD, but the configuration loss (or reverting to a previous configuration) has been discussed several times before in this thread, as you probably know.  Why it happens to some, and not others, is perplexing.

 

I have had an open case with Denon support dating back to 12/1/2011 ("Settings lost following a power interruption [Incident: 111116-000311]"), but have never received a response.  Since re-loading the configuration from backup is relatively painless, I have never considered this a big deal.

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post #18887 of 21934
8/14/12 at 8:24am
Understood. Just posting what should be the proper operation.
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post #18888 of 21934
8/14/12 at 9:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

@lotus...
i described the "better way" for you... i have seamless music throughout my house and yard, without having to screw around with a zone kludge...

You are streaming your music?
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post #18889 of 21934
8/14/12 at 9:38am
^^^

yes... from any of my devices (iphone, ipad, mac mini, macbook) to any/all of my locations...

i use airport expresses (actually, an atv for the main room) and various avrs/integrateds... however, there are other streaming solutions for those who are apple-phobic... smile.gif
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post #18890 of 21934
8/14/12 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
well, unfortunately, your "need" is going to be unfulfilled... while it may be "very important" to you, the reality is that you are a very small minority, and the cost to the cem to make you happy isn't worth it...
personally, i gave up on multi-zone audio from a single avr a long time ago... it's a concept that time has passed by... it's rather easy to place a cheap craigslist avr (or cheap parts express amp) and a streaming device whereever you need one, rather than attempting to jump through hoops...

I respectfully disagree. It's actually very easily integrated and utilized...you simply need the AVR to possess the ability to access and output your sources. We now see (with the new Onkyos) additional zones taking on HDMI, which is a great thing for many folks. But right now, I'm very happy with the 4311 and other Denon AVRs being able to take on SPDIF, at the very least. Yes, you end up running speaker wire I suppose, but what you don't do is end up having to purchase a streaming device for every room, never mind an amplifier/AVR. I ran the wire to my two zones in about an hour...I realize others may be looking at a more substantial investment of time...again a modicum of common sense and budget would rule the day, here.

The key with the whole deal is the ability to go beyond just a "sonos type" architecture where some (meaning "anyone") seem to operate under the assumption that people just want to listen to music (read itunes or streaming service) outside of the main room.

But in my home for example, I routinely listen to sports broadcasts and concerts off directv (and BD player) on my deck and in another room and it's easily done by simply hitting the activity button on my Harmony remote.

Further- and probably more imperatively though- the multi-zone capability of the ios or android app has made it even easier (and accessible) for others to control zones out of the main room. This is huge for obvious reasons.

I guess I'm on the other side of the fence: I believe a 2-$3,000 AVR should be expanding user control and flexibility, not limiting it.

All this, and a significant reduction in the cost and clutter of other devices and amplifiers.

Its place (multi zone use) is emerging more than ever, imo. There certainly are other solutions though, other than a single AVR, to be sure.

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 8/14/12 at 10:26am
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post #18891 of 21934
8/14/12 at 10:23am
Hi all. I've had my 4311 since they first arrived. Generally, I love it. But one feature (or lack of it?) is confounding me. Maybe someone can help.

Sometimes in a party scenario, I want to keep my music playing (Toslink source) but rather than stare at the blank TV screen associated with that source, I'd like to show something interesting on the TV. Like computer or Bluray eye candy (HDMI source). How can this be accomplished with the 4311? My menu and knob fiddling have been fruitless. The manual didn't help. The receiver has all the signals it needs so surely this doesn't need cable-swapping or outboard splitter hardware to accomplish, does it?

I come from the world of Sony receivers where watching any given V while listening to any given A was pretty easy.

Please advise! Thank you. smile.gif
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post #18892 of 21934
8/14/12 at 10:32am
With the audio source playing, change the "Video Select" setting (p. 83 OM) to an analog video input (ie. non-HDMI). So in addition to the HDMI cable from the cable/sat box, also connect a component video cable and assign it to a different source name.
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post #18893 of 21934
8/14/12 at 10:34am
just a quick example for others who may be looking to do this:

Music:

I have an ipad and iphone (which of course works anywhere in my house via my wifi). From those I "airplay" everything (itunes, spotify/rhapsody, apps etc) to my appletv that's connected to my 4311 via toslink. I just turn on Zone 2 or 3 and select "APPLE TV"

Sports/Concerts/Music on Cable/DirecTV:

My DirecTV box is connected to the 4311 via a toslink: I simply turn on Zone 2 and/or 3 and select "DIRECT TV".

Blu ray concert/disc? Same as above subbing "BD PLAYER" of course.

2 button pushes: zones on, playing the selected source. Done.

James
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post #18894 of 21934
8/14/12 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

With the audio source playing, change the "Video Select" setting (p. 83 OM) to an analog video input (ie. non-HDMI). So in addition to the HDMI cable from the cable/sat box, also connect a component video cable and assign it to a different source name.

Yep. Or you can eliminate the analog limitation and simply assign the toslink interconnect coming from your music source to whatever source you wish to serve as the video background. Then, simply choose the "digital" input for that source.

I do this all the time with my DirecTV. It's an HDMI input, but I have my appletv assigned to its "digital" side so I simply select it when I want to listen to music over a sports broadcast...which is quite often these days. rolleyes.giftongue.gif:D

BTW: if you have a nice learning remote, I'd asctually assign the "input" button somehwere...that way you can toggle between the HDMI (read "real source) audio and that of your music.

James
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post #18895 of 21934
8/14/12 at 10:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I respectfully disagree. It's actually very easily integrated and utilized...you simply need the AVR to possess the ability to access and output your sources. We now see (with the new Onkyos) additional zones taking on HDMI, which is a great thing for many folks. But right now, I'm very happy with the 4311 and other Denon AVRs being able to take on SPDIF, at the very least. Yes, you end up running speaker wire I suppose, but what you don't do is end up having to purchase a streaming device for every room, never mind an amplifier/AVR. I ran the wire to my two zones in about an hour...I realize others may be looking at a more substantial investment of time...again a modicum of common sense and budget would rule the day, here.
The key with the whole deal is the ability to go beyond just a "sonos type" architecture where some (meaning "anyone") seem to operate under the assumption that people just want to listen to music (read itunes or streaming service) outside of the main room.
But in my home for example, I routinely listen to sports broadcasts and concerts off directv (and BD player) on my deck and in another room and it's easily done by simply hitting the activity button on my Harmony remote.
Further- and probably more imperatively though- the multi-zone capability of the ios or android app has made it even easier (and accessible) for others to control zones out of the main room. This is huge for obvious reasons.
I guess I'm on the other side of the fence: I believe a 2-$3,000 AVR should be expanding user control and flexibility, not limiting it.
All this, and a significant reduction in the cost and clutter of other devices and amplifiers.
Its place (multi zone use) is emerging more than ever, imo. There certainly are other solutions though, other than a single AVR, to be sure.
James

Amen. With the new onkyos you still need an anlog connection for zone 2 though its not all travelling over hdmi,
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post #18896 of 21934
8/14/12 at 10:50am
^ Not to go too far off track, but I thought the new Onks could playback an HDMI input (2 channel PCM, anyway) to Zone 2, but not 3?

EDIT: wait, actually it seems that you ARE limited to an analog input if both the main room and zone two are on the same source.

Crikey does that suck.

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 8/14/12 at 11:06am
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post #18897 of 21934
8/14/12 at 11:02am
Thank you for the ideas. I will try this tonight.

To confirm my config:
  • source "PS3" : takes HDMI video & audio from PS3 (no component video cables at hand right now) for Bluray, slideshow, etc.
  • source "Sonos" : takes Toslink audio from the Sonos component

So I can assign the digital audio input *also* to the "PS3" source, but still leave everything else as it is? And then just toggle audio input for "PS3" between digital and HDMI. That would work well. Actually, I should be able to toggle with SDDIGITAL and SDHDMI control commands over the network. I'll report back.
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post #18898 of 21934
8/14/12 at 11:13am
^ Mostly correct, but you can only have one input assigned to one source at a time so you'll have to switch between the PS3 and Sonos. If the Sonos had HDMI ouput as well, you could do as I do with my appletv:

It's nice that it (appletv) has both HDMI and toslink. I pretty much always leave the HDMI on the apple tv input and its toslink on the directv.

Only time I really switch toslink off the directv input is when I want to listen to the directv outside (so I need ITS toslink connection for 2 channel PCM).

Otherwise works like a dream. I'm sure you will find a similar experience.

James
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post #18899 of 21934
8/15/12 at 5:23am
New User experience after 2 weeks with the 4311:

Overall I am becoming accustomed to the receiver and find it much less overwhelming but I do have some issues that I could use guidance.

1) What setting gives the best balance between volume levels and sound quality when watching cable TV? I have tried a combination of Audessey with Dyn EQ and Dyn Volume.. what do you guys use for TV viewing? I have also found Dolby Volume and this setting turns off Audessey but I do find it to be the best volume levels, is this normal? With Audessey turned on I find I have to turn up the volume to -15db or so for a decent volume level.

2) For music playback the multi channel setting is by far the most dynamic and loudest setting I have found which is dissapointing. I am a 2 channel enthusiast but I again find I need to really crank up the volume to near 0db to get decent volume levels. In Multi Channel I can use -30db and have a good level. Is there something I am doing wrong here?

I have a 20x20 room with a 7.1 setup. thanks.
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post #18900 of 21934
8/15/12 at 6:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Jerry,
I did not think to verify if that occurred (I will make a note to check it), as I have been mired in all this testing and troubleshooting the issues. However, it (reseting to a prior configuration, not reversion to factory default settings) has happened to me, as noted in the post above. It was hard to find that post without the advanced search capability in the thread...can't wait for them to fix that issue!
Mark

I confirmed that performing the soft reset this time did not result in the loss of my settings or reversion to a previous saved configuration.

Mark
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK]