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The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 660

post #19771 of 23144
the 4311 DACs (whether that makes a difference or not is another argument) were not as good as the ones int he 3805/4310 were they ?
post #19772 of 23144
Although the 4310CI and AFAIK the 3805 as well both used Burr Brown DACs, that doesn't necessarily make them any better than the AK DAC used in the 4311CI, rather more likely negligible difference if any, in fact.
post #19773 of 23144
since listening tests are subjective - how do they compare raw specs wise ?

Whilst I wish that Pioneer would upgrade their EQ system I do like that they still make the effort to use a number of 2 channel DACs - high quality 32bit AKM DACs at that - instead of 8 channel ones
Edited by markabuckley - 11/11/12 at 8:17am
post #19774 of 23144
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

AFAIK, it has to do with the signal path distance on the board. Try connecting to #3-#5 to see if they work as well as #6, as more often than not, it's the first two that have issues..
I figured it was something to do with distance, but it definitely strikes me as a design flaw - clearly some corners are being cut in the HDMI board design and not only on the 4311 as this seems to be a reasonably common issue that people run into. If I get some time free, I'll give the other ports a try and see what happens. Obviously though, I'm happy that I've got it working now smile.gif.
post #19775 of 23144
Correct .. this issue is common to all models ... although depends on the sources being connected.
post #19776 of 23144
I have two problems with Netusb on my 4311ci, maybe someone here can help. I posted these to a support ticket and I'm waiting for a response.

1. Whenever I want to use netusb on zone2 or zone3 the web or ipad app are unreliable until I pull the plug on the receiver and plug in again. Prior to that the unit does really weird stuff. Web is extremely slow and when I finally get to pandora or media server the thing just keeps playing 5 seconds of a song and then changing to a different song. Songs seem random. Very very strange. If I powercycle the unit it will work. Then some days later I want to use it again and it's back to being wonky.

2. When I tried to use zone2 or zone3 netusb and media player with the ipad, there are two user interfaces that I might get. The first is much like the web where I need to slowly page through lists. The second interface is much nicer and I can select on a letter and jump right to that section of a list. However, the "nice" fast interface always turns on the main zone if it's not on and it always hijacks the sound on the main zone to media player. It only does this when I get the "nice" interface which I have no control over.

Both of these seem to have started after I took the free airplay update but maybe that is a coincidence.

I've been quietly waiting for a firmware update, but nothing has come in a long time. I can't believe everyone else is putting up with this. Maybe I should do a microprocessor reset?

A third minor issue with the receiver:

3. I have a 3D projector. If the projector is connected directly to a device the device knows immediately it has 3d, but through the denon it does not. In order to get my directv receiver to know it's got a 3d display device I have to switch display to PS3, enable simulated 3D on Ps3 and then switch display back to Directv box. Annoying, but not that big of a deal. I've been thinking I might get around it by powering up in a different sequence but I haven't found something that works yet.

thanks
post #19777 of 23144
OK... becoming a little more seasoned on the Denon AVR-4311-ci.

Finally settled on speakers. (tried Definitive Technologies SM-45's, Klipsch RB-51, and my old JBL 4425 Studio Monitors)... The winner is the Bowers & Wilkins (B&W) CM5 Bookshelf Speakers and the Monitor Audio Rx-Fx Silver Rx-FX Surrounds, and Kipsch KG5.5 Center and some other 10" powered Sub.

I'm using this pretty much in a 5.1 configuration (bi-amp'd front speakers) and would *like* top use at least one or possibly TWO zones in other parts of the house.

But I'm having a little trouble figuring out if the Amplifier Assignments will allow this. the Default for Bi Amp is Front Wide drives the tweeters?? But this was the Zone 2 out. But possibly? the Surround back channels can be zone 2 or 3?? the config is a little weird because every time you set it one way it changes the other assignment. So... I really wish there were a chart to show what you give up when going Bi-Amp.

But, maybe it isn't even worth it to drive CM5's with BiAmp. The sound is NOT as loud when Bi-Amped. That was unexpected. I appreciate any opinions about the configuration wrt. Bi-Amp.

Now I also notice a LOT of hiss in the signal that comes from my Tivo connection. (TiVo TCD658000 HD XL) (I think I'm getting audio over HDMI but I may have a direct Optical cable as well.)

Does anyone know of a chart that shows acceptable combinations of Amp Assignments?

A lot of the previous probs were solved after I did the cpu-reset thang! (And restored settings from a config file.) Thanks for this suggestion

Thank you to all who respond.
post #19778 of 23144
^^^

it's never "worth it" to passively bi-amp... so you are getting closer there... smile.gif

re: tivo... well, which one is it? hdmi or toslink?
post #19779 of 23144
@dsm...

no idea on the first two, however, the issue is almost certainly with the d* box when it comes to your 3d problem... what's interesting is that your "fix" works, as when you switch inputs, by definition it should be forcing a new handshake... which leaves ipen the small possibility that the issue is with the display...
post #19780 of 23144
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

@dsm...
no idea on the first two, however, the issue is almost certainly with the d* box when it comes to your 3d problem... what's interesting is that your "fix" works, as when you switch inputs, by definition it should be forcing a new handshake... which leaves ipen the small possibility that the issue is with the display...

Ok, thanks.

I'd be curious to know if others have seen these kind of netusb issues. I may try a micro-processor reset tonight just to see if it helps.
post #19781 of 23144
^^^

other than airplay, i found all of the various other interfaces painful to use when i was testing them out (i'm in the habit of trying everything i can when i get a new toy)...

i use an appletv... painless... smile.gif
post #19782 of 23144
Yes, I've got an appletv not attached to the unit at the moment. Maybe I should move it back into that room so I can use that. It sucks though because when I cycle the power the web does work pretty well. Hmm, there is not a way to reboot the microprocessor via the web is there? Then I could use that to reset it. The Ipad media player "fast" interface hijacking the mains is also really annoying.
post #19783 of 23144
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsm1212 View Post

I have two problems with Netusb on my 4311ci, maybe someone here can help. I posted these to a support ticket and I'm waiting for a response.
1. Whenever I want to use netusb on zone2 or zone3 the web or ipad app are unreliable until I pull the plug on the receiver and plug in again. Prior to that the unit does really weird stuff. Web is extremely slow and when I finally get to pandora or media server the thing just keeps playing 5 seconds of a song and then changing to a different song. Songs seem random. Very very strange. If I powercycle the unit it will work. Then some days later I want to use it again and it's back to being wonky.
2. When I tried to use zone2 or zone3 netusb and media player with the ipad, there are two user interfaces that I might get. The first is much like the web where I need to slowly page through lists. The second interface is much nicer and I can select on a letter and jump right to that section of a list. However, the "nice" fast interface always turns on the main zone if it's not on and it always hijacks the sound on the main zone to media player. It only does this when I get the "nice" interface which I have no control over.
Both of these seem to have started after I took the free airplay update but maybe that is a coincidence.
I've been quietly waiting for a firmware update, but nothing has come in a long time. I can't believe everyone else is putting up with this. Maybe I should do a microprocessor reset?
A third minor issue with the receiver:
3. I have a 3D projector. If the projector is connected directly to a device the device knows immediately it has 3d, but through the denon it does not. In order to get my directv receiver to know it's got a 3d display device I have to switch display to PS3, enable simulated 3D on Ps3 and then switch display back to Directv box. Annoying, but not that big of a deal. I've been thinking I might get around it by powering up in a different sequence but I haven't found something that works yet.
thanks

1. This issue may be a result of your router so you may want to try using another router if available.
2. Note that when using Airplay, the main zone is hijacked and must play the same Airplay source as selected in Zones 2/3. Using an Apple TV for Zones 2/3 will prevent the hijacking of the main zone.
3. Try doing the HDMI HDCP reset procedure listed in my troubleshooting guide ...

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread/0_100#user_L11
post #19784 of 23144
Quote:
Originally Posted by awardblvr View Post

But I'm having a little trouble figuring out if the Amplifier Assignments will allow this. the Default for Bi Amp is Front Wide drives the tweeters?? But this was the Zone 2 out. But possibly? the Surround back channels can be zone 2 or 3?? the config is a little weird because every time you set it one way it changes the other assignment. So... I really wish there were a chart to show what you give up when going Bi-Amp.
But, maybe it isn't even worth it to drive CM5's with BiAmp. The sound is NOT as loud when Bi-Amped. That was unexpected. I appreciate any opinions about the configuration wrt. Bi-Amp.

The chart on p. 94 in your Owner's manual explains the results of the various AMP ASSIGN settings. When you select "Bi-amp" you give up any powered Zone capability, rather you would have to use the Zone 2 pre-outs to another amp; however, as Chris notes, there's no benefit to using the AVR's bi-amp feature (and in your case apparently a detriment eek.gif).
post #19785 of 23144
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Just curious, since the significant improvement over your previous AVR is the 4311's XT32 technology, which significantly improves sound quality, why aren't you using it? IMO, a properly-calibrated 4311 should sound better than your 3805.
When I listen to Pure Direct, both on my previous 4311, and on my current 4520, it sounds lifeless when compared to listening with Audyssey and DEQ engaged. And my speakers are no slouches...

I agree, I went from a 4802R which I loved and felt was so powerful, then went to 4308CI which without Audyssey I felt was weak, but once you let Audyessy do its thing the 4308CI kicks butt from a overall sound experience quality, same with my new 4311, Audyessy is the game changer.
post #19786 of 23144
A funny thing happened today.
My Daughter was visiting with me and was trying to play music on her Iphone without my knowledge,
my 4311 turned on and started blaring out Rap at a dangerous level. I was outside and had to rush in to
power down the AVR. Apparently (I'm not familiar with I phone) she was attempting to play her "music" on her Iphone and the 4311 was
presented as one of her options on her phone. Not ever seeing this option before she randomly chose to select the 4311 and taught the
neighborhood a new language. mad.gif

Just a heads up, if it happened to me, it could happen to you.

P.S. It would be interesting to know what the Path Loss is with the Iphone feature, she has gone home now and I didn't get a chance to test it?
post #19787 of 23144
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitebell View Post

A funny thing happened today.
My Daughter was visiting with me and was trying to play music on her Iphone without my knowledge,
my 4311 turned on and started blaring out Rap at a dangerous level. I was outside and had to rush in to
power down the AVR. Apparently (I'm not familiar with I phone) she was attempting to play her "music" on her Iphone and the 4311 was
presented as one of her options on her phone. Not ever seeing this option before she randomly chose to select the 4311 and taught the
neighborhood a new language. mad.gif
Just a heads up, if it happened to me, it could happen to you.
P.S. It would be interesting to know what the Path Loss is with the Iphone feature, she has gone home now and I didn't get a chance to test it?
You just discovered that your 4311 has the Airplay upgrade installed biggrin.gif. The big downside to this feature is that the receiver has no way to restrict which iDevices can make use of the feature - if they're on the same network, the iDevice can stream to the 4311 no questions asked. IMO, there really ought to be some sort of pairing process involved so surprises like you ran into don't happen - and this is a failing in Airplay in general, it's not something Denon can do anything about AFAIK. But hey, Apple knows best and can do no wrong rolleyes.gif (and I say that very sarcastically as an owner of several iDevices that I like quite a bit despite being well aware that they could make some little improvements here and there to make their products better - an iPod Classic 160GB, iPad 2, and iPhone 4S).
post #19788 of 23144
the op could set up multiple subnets, i suppose...

dunno how a "pairing" process could be easily implemented, i don't know enough about the process to have a viable idea... although it would be nice, i agree...

edit: agreed on apple... i'm a total apple dork, but there are things i'd like done differently...
post #19789 of 23144
Well, I'm a little late to the party, but I just ordered an AVR-4311CI today to replace an AVR-3808CI. There was nothing wrong with my 3808; in fact, I love it, but I have a new 3D plasma arriving and the 3808 won't pass 3D so I would've been forced to kludge together an outboard switching system which didn't seem very elegant. I'm also looking forward to going from MultEQ XT to MultEQ XT32 -- I have MultEQ XT32 on my Onkyo TX-NR5008 in my theater room and it's fantastic.

I considered buying an Onkyo TX-NR1010 to replace my 3808 but I'm not a fan of Onkyo's on-screen displays and other feature implementations, and further, I don't really trust an Onkyo to be as reliable as a Denon. The TX-NR5008 in my theater room only gets used about twice a month, so it's been fine, but if you take a look at the Onkyo owner's threads it's not a question of if the Onkyo will fail, it's only a matter of when. On the other hand, my 3808 has been used daily for at least four hours at a time and it runs like a Swiss watch.

I also considered a AVR-3313CI but it seemed like a step down from my 3808 except for some features I won't use. It'll pass 3D, but that's about the only thing I'd have gained. The AVR-4520CI was a little more than I wanted to spend, and to be honest, I love the dual input-output speaker displays on the front of the older Denons. I find those incredibly useful and honestly it was a feature that make me lean toward the 4311CI.

Anyway, I'm excited to get the new toy and I'm hoping I can pick up some quirks and insights from you guys. In fact, I've already learned that I'm going to have to call Denon to activate the AirPlay upgraded (ugh) rather than accomplishing it online. What a PITA.
post #19790 of 23144
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

dunno how a "pairing" process could be easily implemented, i don't know enough about the process to have a viable idea... although it would be nice, i agree...
I was thinking something along the lines of how Bluetooth pairing works. AFAIK, it's just not a feature supported in any way by Airplay, so it's mostly a moot point. The only thing Denon ~might~ be able to do is to allow the user to specify a list of IP addresses that are allowed and then just ignore Airplay requests from any other address, but it's possible that Apple might even restrict such behavior.
post #19791 of 23144
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

IMO, there really ought to be some sort of pairing process involved so surprises like you ran into don't happen - and this is a failing in Airplay in general, it's not something Denon can do anything about AFAIK.

I am pretty opposed to apple, I think they've become exactly what they parodied in their 1984 super bowl commercial, but this problem is all Denon's fault. The Airplay protocol has both pairing with codes similar to the way bluetooth works as well as a simple password system you can use instead. Denon chose not to implement either of them and just leave it wide open - they didn't put a password on their web interface either. My guess is that they did that out of a misplaced desire to make the system more user-friendly - no authentication needed, just start listening to music. However, Nitebell's report is practically identical to at least one other I've seen right here in this thread - daughter unintentially blasts music and freaks out parental units. Denon could have enabled this stuff and just left it turned off by default and provided the best of both worlds....

Here's an example of how to do Airplay pairing and passwords with an AppleTV:
https://support.apple.com/kb/HT5517
post #19792 of 23144
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryW View Post

I am pretty opposed to apple, I think they've become exactly what they parodied in their 1984 super bowl commercial, but this problem is all Denon's fault. The Airplay protocol has both pairing with codes similar to the way bluetooth works as well as a simple password system you can use instead. Denon chose not to implement either of them and just leave it wide open - they didn't put a password on their web interface either. My guess is that they did that out of a misplaced desire to make the system more user-friendly - no authentication needed, just start listening to music. However, Nitebell's report is practically identical to at least one other I've seen right here in this thread - daughter unintentially blasts music and freaks out parental units. Denon could have enabled this stuff and just left it turned off by default and provided the best of both worlds....
Here's an example of how to do Airplay pairing and passwords with an AppleTV:
https://support.apple.com/kb/HT5517
My bad - I guess I should have looked into it further. Good to hear that Airplay DOES support a pairing protocol. Bad to hear that Denon chose not to implement it as it turns a potentially useful feature into one that could actually have pretty dire consequences such as blowing expensive speakers or (worse) somebody's eardrums.
post #19793 of 23144
OMG I need some one to convince me to get this 4311CI to replace my 1912 hahaha

UPDATE: Too late, I decided to jump on it. Bought it from AudioHolics for 1299. Now I shall patiently wait....
Edited by kanti123 - 11/16/12 at 3:06am
post #19794 of 23144
I'm tempted to get one too. I worry that any day my Onkyo will develop the bad HDMI board or/and IDE cable problems.
post #19795 of 23144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

I'm tempted to get one too. I worry that any day my Onkyo will develop the bad HDMI board or/and IDE cable problems.

I never own an Onkyo, I move from complete 5.1 home theater setup that was 200 dollars, to Sony receiver which is another 200 dollars to Denon Avr-1912 (BIG Improvement) now to Denon AVR 4311CI. this would be my last upgrade for years to come. My co-worker have Exioms speakers, I don't know how they are, but the sound is wayyyy to harsh on my ears. So I'll stick with Polk Audio, nice and warm sound.
post #19796 of 23144
Quote:
Originally Posted by awardblvr View Post

...But, maybe it isn't even worth it to drive CM5's with BiAmp. The sound is NOT as loud when Bi-Amped. That was unexpected...
That is unexpected, if everything is properly configured. There are many potential errors that can occur when doing a biamp setup; the worst is failing to remove the jumpers from the speaker wire posts. eek.gif Assuming correct set up, most likely It was simply that you were not comparing apples to apples in regards to all settings For ex, DEQ and or DVol might have been on for one but not the other.

In any case, there are few on AVS who would tell you to expect any audible improvement from such "passive biamping" (using multiple amps off the same power supply internal to the AVR with no active xover in the preamp stage). Basically no gain for the pain.
post #19797 of 23144
I am unable to change the Audio Delay value from 0 in the Audio Adjust menu. As I have the Cable STB HDMI going directly to the display, and S/PDIF coax to the 4311, there is a lip synch issue which I hoped to resolve simply by increasing the Audio Delay. Is there some other setting that this is dependent on? Obviously, there is no video connected to this source on the 4311.

Would appreciate any leads as the issue is rather annoying, and I want to avoid re-wiring everything to go HDMI through the 4311 (wire runs, inaccessible location of components and connectors, etc)

Thanks.
post #19798 of 23144
Quote:
Originally Posted by R_J View Post

I am unable to change the Audio Delay value from 0 in the Audio Adjust menu. As I have the Cable STB HDMI going directly to the display, and S/PDIF coax to the 4311, there is a lip synch issue which I hoped to resolve simply by increasing the Audio Delay. Is there some other setting that this is dependent on? Obviously, there is no video connected to this source on the 4311.

Would appreciate any leads as the issue is rather annoying, and I want to avoid re-wiring everything to go HDMI through the 4311 (wire runs, inaccessible location of components and connectors, etc)

Thanks.

You have experienced this on ALL channels right? These kind of problems are not uncommon to be the source..
post #19799 of 23144
Quote:
Originally Posted by tc1 View Post

You have experienced this on ALL channels right? These kind of problems are not uncommon to be the source..

Not sure what you mean by ALL channels. Are you referring to the individual channel/speaker delays? I am trying to adjust the overall audio delay wrt the video to maintain lip synch on that particular input of the 4311.
post #19800 of 23144
I mean have you experienced this on all the different CABLE channels coming through the STB? If it is only one or two channels it is source channels problem. I have OTA only but on rare occasions had this happen on an individual channel/station.
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