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The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 672

post #20131 of 21916
12/12/12 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

can you isolate it to an area within the avr?

Although I can't be certain, it seems to be coming from the front part of the receiver, somewhere behind the display panel.

The initial part of the 3-second "buzz" sounds similar to the "bing (?)" noise you hear when you turn on a plasma, then progresses into the buzz. It's hard to describe frown.gif Again, everything functions normally - I can watch and listen to anything even during the "buzz" without a glitch. Please help! It's very frustrating, mainly b/c I've never even heard of this happening during my months of browsing this forum.
Edited by Gdell - 12/12/12 at 4:41pm
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post #20132 of 21916
12/12/12 at 8:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Well, the most recent firmware fixed a Pandora bug, but if you don't have ethernet access in your HT, then I guess Pandora is irrelevant!
Other than this recent Pandora issue, the firmware of the 4311 has been rock solid stable for a long time. It's a mature product at this point. So I wouldn't worry about it unless you want to pursue network stuff.
That said, it may be worthwhile to find network access somehow because it unlocks a lot of cool user control options, for example controlling the receiver via a smartphone, iPad, or networked PC (e.g. a laptop). Sometimes it's much easier to make quick changes via IP control than using a remote. Plus, you access streaming audio options like Airplay, Pandora, Internet Radio, etc. and also can SAVE and LOAD your configurations.
There is, unfortunately, no option to update firmware via USB. Network only.


Thanks Batbig for the advice.

I finally got this bad boy into my rack tonight. Got everything connected, and the first thing I did was run Audyssey. I have a room with a 7.2 configuration.

I didn't specify 2 sub channels up front, but the auto setup is failing when after it completes its pulsing of the first sub. It gives me a "Caution Front L is out of phase". I have tried switching the phase back and forth on the sub, with no real impact.

What should I be looking at? Mic location at main listening position? Wiring? Ignore it? This was the first measurement, so I need to make sure it's correct.

I'm coming from an old school Onkyo 805, so this XT32 calibration is entirely new to me. First thing I noticed was that in order to attain a ~75DB sub output on this receiver, I had to have my sub's gain control at like 9 or 10 o clock. (as opposed to 12 or 1 o clock) on my prior Onkyo, which I thought was very interesting.

Anyhow, need advice from you experts unless you believe this should be posted in the main Auddyesey thread.
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post #20133 of 21916
12/12/12 at 8:33pm

^^^ "Front L" is the left front main speaker, not the sub.  Re-check the wiring to that speaker.  There are also other methods, e.g. using a test disk, that will check to see if that speaker is out of phase.  In some rare cases, a speaker's internal wiring might have been reversed when it was manufactured.  If you are sure the wiring is good, and that the speaker is wired correctly internally, you can select "ignore" and proceed with the calibration.

 

I can't tell from your post, but if you actually have two subs, they should be hooked to sub1 and sub2, respectively, and you should specify two subs.

 

Edit:  You receive the warning after it "chirps" the sub because the calibration routine reports any out of phase condition only after it has finished testing all connected speakers.  You only hear one sub chirp because you only configured one sub.  Make sense?

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post #20134 of 21916
12/12/12 at 8:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

^^^ "Front L" is the left front main speaker, not the sub.  Re-check the wiring to that speaker.  There are also other methods, e.g. using a test disk, that will check to see if that speaker is out of phase.  In some rare cases, a speaker's internal wiring might have been reversed when it was manufactured.  If you are sure the wiring is good, and that the speaker is wired correctly internally, you can select "ignore" and proceed with the calibration.

I can't tell from your post, but if you actually have two subs, they should be hooked to sub1 and sub2, respectively, and you should specify two subs.

Edit:  You receive the warning after it "chirps" the sub because the calibration routine reports any out of phase condition only after it has finished testing all connected speakers.  You only hear one sub chirp because you only configured one sub.  Make sense?

That makes sense. I am making use of both subwoofer outputs on the receiver respectively. Do I need to specify that I have two subs before I run the auto setup? If so, where do I do this in the menu?

EDIT: I just realized that moving the mic 2ft "forward" from the main seating position, the phase problem goes away. Do I need to move my main LP?
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post #20135 of 21916
12/12/12 at 9:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eiger View Post


That makes sense. I am making use of both subwoofer outputs on the receiver respectively. Do I need to specify that I have two subs before I run the auto setup? If so, where do I do this in the menu?
EDIT: I just realized that moving the mic 2ft "forward" from the main seating position, the phase problem goes away. Do I need to move my main LP?

 

First answer:  Yes, you need to specify that you have two subs before you start the calibration.  In the first screen of the calibration routine, you will see a "Channel Select" button. Select that, and you can configure two subs.  Make sure they are connected to Sub1 and Sub2.  When the calibration routine gets to the sub section, it will send a chirp to sub1, then to sub2, and finally to both subs together.  Subsequent series of chirps will only have the combined chirp to both subs.

 

Don't know why moving the mic changed the phase warning.  As per the original recommendation, I would check the wiring.  Then configure the subs properly and run the calibration again using the original mic position (i.e. without moving the MLP).  If you still get a phase warning, then I would ignore it, or you can move the MLP if that is not a big problem.

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post #20136 of 21916
12/13/12 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

First answer:  Yes, you need to specify that you have two subs before you start the calibration.  In the first screen of the calibration routine, you will see a "Channel Select" button. Select that, and you can configure two subs.  Make sure they are connected to Sub1 and Sub2.  When the calibration routine gets to the sub section, it will send a chirp to sub1, then to sub2, and finally to both subs together.  Subsequent series of chirps will only have the combined chirp to both subs.

Don't know why moving the mic changed the phase warning.  As per the original recommendation, I would check the wiring.  Then configure the subs properly and run the calibration again using the original mic position (i.e. without moving the MLP).  If you still get a phase warning, then I would ignore it, or you can move the MLP if that is not a big problem.

Cool thanks Austin. I'm making some progress. Ran auto setup after I ensured that both sub channels were utilized.

Decided to leave the LP where it was at, at ignore the phase warning, as I double and tripled checked everything. Physical distances for subs and front L/R look accurate. I changed my mains to "small" speakers instead of "large". I have Vienna Acoustic Beethovens. @4ohm. Also put everything at 80Hz xover across the board.
What I have noticed is this -

Speakers are outputting the following -

Front R -4.5db
Surr R -4.0db
Surr Back R +2.0db
Surr Back L

Sub 1 -4.5db
Sub 2 -7.4db

My mains/surrounds weren't outputting 75db according to my SPL menter, I modified the above slightly. Audyessey NEVER gets this right, no matter which implementation I've used. biggrin.gif

What's odd is that at my listening position the subs (individually) are only outputting 65db!. Would it be appropriate for me to increase the levels a bit? Should I do this within the GUI, or use the gain control on the back of the subs? I don't want to impact how the subs are working with the rest of the system in terms of phase, so just want to make sure I adjust the subs volume appropriately.

Thanks,
Chris
Edited by eiger - 12/13/12 at 11:57am
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post #20137 of 21916
12/13/12 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Well, the most recent firmware fixed a Pandora bug.

Recent firmware, when? No notification on my unit.
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post #20138 of 21916
12/13/12 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by R_J View Post

Recent firmware, when? No notification on my unit.

I believe it's scheduled to be released on 12/17 if I recall correctly.
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post #20139 of 21916
12/13/12 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdell View Post

Hello,
I did a quick search through the forum, but couldn't find an answer so I thought I'd post here. I have a 4311 which is about 6 months old. In the last week or so, I started noticing a strange buzz coming from the receiver - seems very regular, every 50 seconds or so, and lasting 3 seconds each time. Other than the buzz. everything works the same, but wanted to see if this is sign of an impending failure, or possible misuse which I need to correct. I am currently running 9.2 with front wides (Energy RC speakers), and have Oppo 83, Denon 3910, PS3, and a DirecTV Genie DVR connected, with HDMI out to Epson 8700UB. I don't run the receiver very hard, with usual volume around -20 to -15dB, mostly for movies + cable. The buzz "cycle" seems to start immediately after I turn on the receiver, which is in an open rack, and doesn't feel very warm to the touch. Has anyone experienced this? Thanks for any help in advance.
I had a previous 4310 which developed a buzz after several years of use(while still under warranty) and it turned out the power supply was going bad, but had not actually failed yet, so they replaced it. However, that buzz was continuous, not intermittent. You might call Denon about it since your unit is under warranty.
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post #20140 of 21916
12/13/12 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eiger View Post

Cool thanks Austin. I'm making some progress. Ran auto setup after I ensured that both sub channels were utilized.
Decided to leave the LP where it was at, at ignore the phase warning, as I double and tripled checked everything. Physical distances for subs and front L/R look accurate. I changed my mains to "small" speakers instead of "large". I have Vienna Acoustic Beethovens. @4ohm. Also put everything at 80Hz xover across the board.
What I have noticed is this -
Speakers are outputting the following -
Front R -4.5db
Surr R -4.0db
Surr Back R +2.0db
Surr Back L
Sub 1 -4.5db
Sub 2 -7.4db
My mains/surrounds weren't outputting 75db according to my SPL menter, I modified the above slightly. Audyessey NEVER gets this right, no matter which implementation I've used. biggrin.gif
What's odd is that at my listening position the subs (individually) are only outputting 65db!. Would it be appropriate for me to increase the levels a bit? Should I do this within the GUI, or use the gain control on the back of the subs? I don't want to impact how the subs are working with the rest of the system in terms of phase, so just want to make sure I adjust the subs volume appropriately.
Thanks,
Chris

Changing the speakers to small and setting the covers at 80 is good. The list of trims is missing a couple of speakers. Regarding Audyssey not setting the measured output to 75dB, this has not been my experience. However, you should be somewhat cautious trusting an SPL meter over Audyssey. When I measure with REW and a calibrated mic, the Audyssey trims are usually spot-on. At least for the speakers other than the subs. It is not unusual for the subs to measure several dB's lower than the other speakers, don't know why. If you want to raise the sub levels, adjust the trims in the AVR, don't alter the gain on the subs themselves. Why? Because this makes it easier to return to the original values if desired. The gain knob on the back of a typical sub is very hard to adjust accurately.
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post #20141 of 21916
12/13/12 at 6:23pm
Well it looks like my less than a year old 4311s left front height channel is going out.. I checked the wiring and swapped the right for the left and the speaker is good so I can only figure it's something wrong in the amp itself. I was going to try and run Audyssey and see if that helped, but I doubt it. I contacted Denon and they gave me a case number and the number to a place to send it, but it sucks to send it off for god knows how long...I just wanted to see if anyone had similar problems with theirs or any suggestions to try?
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post #20142 of 21916
12/13/12 at 7:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eiger View Post

... I just realized that moving the mic 2ft "forward" from the main seating position, the phase problem goes away. Do I need to move my main LP?
Sometimes the sound reflections in the room cause Audyssey to issue an out of phase warning. That is why it is recommended that you stop, visually check the wiring carefully and once you've verified it is correct ignore the warning. That the phase warning went away when you moved the mic supports that it is likely a room-induced false warning.
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post #20143 of 21916
12/13/12 at 7:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints View Post

Well it looks like my less than a year old 4311s left front height channel is going out...any suggestions to try?
Save your current calibration and do a "reset the microprocessor" procedure.
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post #20144 of 21916
12/13/12 at 7:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Save your current calibration and do a "reset the microprocessor" procedure.
Didnt work. I can still hear the left height channel, but it is very, very low even when turned up to +12
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post #20145 of 21916
12/13/12 at 10:44pm
Hello:

I just bought a Denon 4311 about 3 weeks ago and am having intermittent HDCP errors coming from the Dish VIP722K DVR. Sometimes, the error message just cuts out material, or sometimes it locks out many channels Never had any of these errors with my previous Marantz SR 8002. I replaced the 722K with another new reciever from Dish, but that didn't help. I'm using Mediabridge 1.4a HDMI with ethernet cables all throught. I tried some Monoprice 1.4a HDMI's as well. TV is a Panasonic 55VT50. Should I exchange the 4311 because it's faulty? Maybe upgrade to the Hopper? Exchange for a Marantz SR 7007 perhaps? I'm getting close to the end of my return period, so I need any advice. Thanks! BTW- love the Denon sound with my Klispch RF7's. Works well.

Scott
mad.gif
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post #20146 of 21916
12/14/12 at 2:39am
Have you tried connecting the DISH receiver directly to the TV to see if there are still dropouts?
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post #20147 of 21916
12/14/12 at 3:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by biotechy View Post

Hello:

I just bought a Denon 4311 about 3 weeks ago and am having intermittent HDCP errors coming from the Dish VIP722K DVR. Sometimes, the error message just cuts out material, or sometimes it locks out many channels Never had any of these errors with my previous Marantz SR 8002. I replaced the 722K with another new reciever from Dish, but that didn't help. I'm using Mediabridge 1.4a HDMI with ethernet cables all throught. I tried some Monoprice 1.4a HDMI's as well. TV is a Panasonic 55VT50. Should I exchange the 4311 because it's faulty? Maybe upgrade to the Hopper? Exchange for a Marantz SR 7007 perhaps? I'm getting close to the end of my return period, so I need any advice. Thanks! BTW- love the Denon sound with my Klispch RF7's. Works well.

Scott
mad.gif

as has been the case since day 1, some cable/sat boxes have serious issues with some repeaters... this can be laid at the feet of the cable/sat companies, they simply do not care...

iow, it's not the avr... and the sr7007 would be a significant downgrade from the 4311...

and, once more, there are no such thing as "hdmi 1.4 cables"... there are 4 "flavors" of cables for home use, those being standard speed, high speed, and "with ethernet" versions of those 2...

there are 2 workarounds...

1) connect hdmi directly from box to the display, and spdif to the avr...

2) connect component and spdif from the box to the avr...
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post #20148 of 21916
12/14/12 at 4:01am
+1
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post #20149 of 21916
12/14/12 at 4:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

as has been the case since day 1, some cable/sat boxes have serious issues with some repeaters... this can be laid at the feet of the cable/sat companies, they simply do not care...
iow, it's not the avr... and the sr7007 would be a significant downgrade from the 4311...
and, once more, there are no such thing as "hdmi 1.4 cables"... there are 4 "flavors" of cables for home use, those being standard speed, high speed, and "with ethernet" versions of those 2...
there are 2 workarounds...
1) connect hdmi directly from box to the display, and spdif to the avr...
2) connect component and spdif from the box to the avr...
One more thing to try before giving up is connecting the Dish receiver to the HDMI input that's closest to the HDMI outputs on the 4311. That can resolve some types of HDMI issues. I'm not sure if it will help in this case, but it doesn't cost anything to give it a try.
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post #20150 of 21916
12/14/12 at 5:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints View Post

Didnt work. I can still hear the left height channel, but it is very, very low even when turned up to +12
This sort of thing is quite unusual. Although you could try the LH preout to an ext amp to further narrow the issue, it's best to go ahead and have it serviced as it's under warranty. I found my local Denon authorized service center to be quite competent and responsive.
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post #20151 of 21916
12/14/12 at 6:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

as has been the case since day 1, some cable/sat boxes have serious issues with some repeaters... this can be laid at the feet of the cable/sat companies, they simply do not care...
iow, it's not the avr... and the sr7007 would be a significant downgrade from the 4311...
and, once more, there are no such thing as "hdmi 1.4 cables"... there are 4 "flavors" of cables for home use, those being standard speed, high speed, and "with ethernet" versions of those 2...
there are 2 workarounds...
1) connect hdmi directly from box to the display, and spdif to the avr...
2) connect component and spdif from the box to the avr...
One more thing to try before giving up is connecting the Dish receiver to the HDMI input that's closest to the HDMI outputs on the 4311. That can resolve some types of HDMI issues. I'm not sure if it will help in this case, but it doesn't cost anything to give it a try.

true dat... on my old sc-05, that was the case with an old cable box...

shoulda posted that... redface.gif thanks for keeping me honest... smile.gif
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post #20152 of 21916
12/14/12 at 7:26am
Regarding the FH channels not working properly, my first 4311 had the same problem. (This was about 13-14 months ago) I ended up sending it back and getting another one from a different vendor. At any rate, I tried everything also, but the FH channels would not function. Have never had an issue with the replacement (except that I never got the 12V triggers to work on any of my equipment).
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post #20153 of 21916
12/14/12 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumble Devo View Post

What is the final word on Chroma Resolution with this receiver using the Denon video conversion?

Last night using the Spears and Munsil disk I noticed the the high Frequency Chroma pattern was black on my screen.
"Second Row, last box on the right"

Heres the pattern from the Spears and Munsil Disk
Chroma Multiburst - High Frequency Burst
http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/articles/choosingacolorspace.html

If I turn off the "Video Convert" in the Denon 4311 the pattern is passed correctly.

Here's my question, is it typical of this receiver to not pass the high frequency chroma details?
On my old 3808 all the patterns passed correctly. I am using the same TV and BluRay player for the tests on the 4311.

Panasonic BDT-2xx (cant remember exact model number)
Color Space YCbCr 4:4:4
Deep color: 12-bit

If I change the change the color space to RGB with "Video Convert" ON the pattern is grey.

I (and many others) experience this problem with that S&M pattern when outputting 4:4:4 and Deep Color from the blu-ray player. Changing this output from the player to 4:2:2 and turning Deep Color off solves it, at least for the proper display of that chroma pattern on the S&M disk. It's likely you will notice no difference using this as blu-rays aren't recorded at 4:4:4 nor do any of them use Deep Color. I suggest you do as I do and experiment with both settings using test patterns on your system to see if you see any visual differences between those settings. I have a Pioneer KRP-600M plasma and tried this with both my old Oppo 93 and my newer Oppo 103 thru my 4311 and saw no differences with any test patterns so I use 4:2:2 and Deep Color off from my Oppo. However I've also read comments from pro reviewers who state that the inability to properly display that chroma pattern on the S&M disk won't negatively affect your picture visually, at least to the naked eye. Take that as you will.
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post #20154 of 21916
12/14/12 at 12:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceTBC View Post

I (and many others) experience this problem with that S&M pattern when outputting 4:4:4 and Deep Color from the blu-ray player. Changing this output from the player to 4:2:2 and turning Deep Color off solves it, at least for the proper display of that chroma pattern on the S&M disk. It's likely you will notice no difference using this as blu-rays aren't recorded at 4:4:4 nor do any of them use Deep Color. I suggest you do as I do and experiment with both settings using test patterns on your system to see if you see any visual differences between those settings. I have a Pioneer KRP-600M plasma and tried this with both my old Oppo 93 and my newer Oppo 103 thru my 4311 and saw no differences with any test patterns so I use 4:2:2 and Deep Color off from my Oppo. However I've also read comments from pro reviewers who state that the inability to properly display that chroma pattern on the S&M disk won't negatively affect your picture visually, at least to the naked eye. Take that as you will.
Thanks for the info.

I did try 4:2:2 with deep color and VIDEO CONVERT on and I passed the chroma multibust pattern.
Ultimately I decided to go with 4:4:4 and the VIDEO CONVERT off as I could never display all the levels of blue in the other modes.

4:2:2 at 8 or 12bits, with VIDEO CONVERT enabled or disabled always combined one of the blue levels in the clipping pattern.

YMMV
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post #20155 of 21916
12/14/12 at 12:47pm
Thanks for the replies. I am going to try hooking up HDMI to port 3, SAT/CAB, and see if this helps. I was using port 4 DVR, which seems to be giving me handshake issues and some video dropouts as well. I might have a bad port. I hooked up HDMI directlty to the Panasonic VT50 plasma and had no issues with HDCP or video dropouts. Also, the Panasonic BDM500 works great running HDMI to the "BD" port, no HDCP errors or vidoe drops.

Thanks,
Scott
smile.gif
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post #20156 of 21916
12/14/12 at 12:50pm
Rumble Devo. If I'm not mistaken turning Video Convert to OFF also turns off the pertinent pop ups that appear on your TV/display when you change any settings on your 4311 like volume, Audyssey etc. I like seeing those settings on my plasma rather than squinting at my 4311's small front display panel.
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post #20157 of 21916
12/14/12 at 6:28pm
After using HDMI port 3, "sat/cab", there was no improvement on the HDCP errors. I have no hooked up Dish 722k onto port 6 "Dock" which is the one closest to "Monitor 1" output as suggested. Thanks so much for that tip, hope it works! Anyone know of any other tips or settings to try? My next move would be to call Denon USA and see if they have any suggestions. I'm trying my best not to use "workarounds" and let the reciever do the HDMI switching. I want to be able to use 3D and play uncompressed codecs. (So no component or optical output) Thanks again.
confused.gif
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post #20158 of 21916
12/14/12 at 6:41pm
^^
As many installers would agree, it's best to simply bypass the AVR and connect the box directly to the TV as history has shown that firmware updates to the box can also cause HDMI handshake issues so even if it does work now, it may "break" down the road. frown.gif
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post #20159 of 21916
12/14/12 at 11:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
As many installers would agree, it's best to simply bypass the AVR and connect the box directly to the TV as history has shown that firmware updates to the box can also cause HDMI handshake issues so even if it does work now, it may "break" down the road. frown.gif

That's not always possible as my Sat box, which is the top one DTV offers(HR34) doesn't have optical. So I'd assume there's many, many others with the same issue.
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post #20160 of 21916
12/15/12 at 1:17am
^^
AFAIK, every DVR released over the past few years has either an optical or digital coax audio output (or both), either of which can be connected to an AVR for DD 5.1 surround audio from HD channels. From DirecTV's website (see below), the HR34 has a coax audio output, so you're covered. smile.gif


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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK]