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The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 682

post #20431 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Why would the analog outs be the preferred choice for anyone who doesn't own a AVP? The 4311 also has HDMI and XT32.

I'm referring to the BDP-105's 2ch performance. Yes, I'm aware of the 4311's capabilities, I have one smile.gif The 4311 may have HDMI and XT32, but it is no AVP wink.gif

When I last compared, the stereo outputs of the 105 provided a fuller sound, using Direct/Pure Direct (no Audyssey) vs. HDMI on the 4311. With the AVP, the analog circuitry vs. HDMI path is almost a wash in quality.

If you're going to use XT32 all the time, then HDMI is likely the best way to go. But like I said, if you want the 2ch purist approach, I'd recommend a 105 via analog outputs w/o processing of the 4311 (or AVP, for that matter).
post #20432 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shek5150 View Post

Regarding the USB port on back of unit; do you suppose it would do any harm if I used this port to connect a little fan (for cooling amp). I couldn't see that the manual specifically addressed using this port for power only purposes . . .
Regards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Nope. No harm at all as it puts out 5v, enough to power a USB fan.
It depends on the fan's current draw. Under the USB 2.0 spec, simple or "dumb" USB devices are supposed to draw no more than 100mA, while USB devices with some intelligence can negotiate with the host (the AVR in this case) for up to 500mA of power. Off-the-shelf USB fans are usually designed with this spec in mind, but if you DIY, you could exceed the current spec, which risks causing instability in the USB circuitry of the host device. If your fan draws more than 500mA, it needs to be run from an external power source.
post #20433 of 23170
I have had the 4311 for about 6mths now. I have to say that I am very dissapointed in music playback and am reaching out for some help on setup.

First my system and room:
1) Denon 4311ci
2)Oppo Bdp-93
3) Paradigm Reference Studio 60 Fronts and Center
4) B&W surrounds and rear surrounds for 7.1 setup
5) HSU VTF- 3 (latest version)
6) Room is 20x20 with high ceilings (12 ft)

I find that 2ch and dolby pl IIx playback is thin and lacks fidelity. When i switch to direct mode the 2 studio 60's sound better to me. I also think multi-channel stereo fills the room also. in fact I can get the fidelity i am looking for in multi-ch stereo on most Cd's around -30db where i need to increase volume to -10db or so in 2ch or dolby pl IIx. I am using the sub in stereo mode also and still not happy with the results and this sub is huge and very capable. I must be missing something on setup either in Audessey or a basic setup for playback. I am extremely disapointed in XT32 and everyone seems to rave about it.

I am coming from a marantz sr-19ex receiver that sounded incredible. I want to be able to get this 4311 to sound similar. Any thoughts?
post #20434 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by alour View Post

I have had the 4311 for about 6mths now. I have to say that I am very dissapointed in music playback and am reaching out for some help on setup.
First my system and room:
1) Denon 4311ci
2)Oppo Bdp-93
3) Paradigm Reference Studio 60 Fronts and Center
4) B&W surrounds and rear surrounds for 7.1 setup
5) HSU VTF- 3 (latest version)
6) Room is 20x20 with high ceilings (12 ft)
I find that 2ch and dolby pl IIx playback is thin and lacks fidelity. When i switch to direct mode the 2 studio 60's sound better to me. I also think multi-channel stereo fills the room also. in fact I can get the fidelity i am looking for in multi-ch stereo on most Cd's around -30db where i need to increase volume to -10db or so in 2ch or dolby pl IIx. I am using the sub in stereo mode also and still not happy with the results and this sub is huge and very capable. I must be missing something on setup either in Audessey or a basic setup for playback. I am extremely disapointed in XT32 and everyone seems to rave about it.
I am coming from a marantz sr-19ex receiver that sounded incredible. I want to be able to get this 4311 to sound similar. Any thoughts?

Well some things first, how did you run audyssey?
post #20435 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Well some things first, how did you run audyssey?

I have run it 3-4 times. I have a tripod and i used the batpig guide and took 6 positions all near the sweet spot in the room. I dont think that is the issue.
post #20436 of 23170
The bible for Audyssey setup is the Audssey 101/FAQ Guide linked in my sig. If you have not already reviewed it, suggest reviewing it as well as the Setup guide linked in that post as well. Note also that with XT32 you can run 8 mic positions which is recommended to provide more data to the Audyssey filters.
post #20437 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by alour View Post

I have had the 4311 for about 6mths now. I have to say that I am very dissapointed in music playback and am reaching out for some help on setup...I find that 2ch and dolby pl IIx playback is thin and lacks fidelity. When i switch to direct mode the 2 studio 60's sound better to me. I also think multi-channel stereo fills the room also...
You have some good gear there and it should sound better with XT32 ON than OFF.

My experience is that once one has spent time listening and getting used to XT32 the SQ sounds kinda bloated or boomy without it. Prior to becoming accustomed to more accurate, "flatter" bass it may not sound as "full". Your attention has already been directed to the reference material on calibration and setup. And I'll specifically refer you to the Audyssey FAQ question on "lost" bass, click here.

It would be helpful if you'd post the sub ch trim setting in the AVR and othe bass management details such as if speakers are set to small and xover values. Oh, have you used Audyssey DynEQ when listening at lower volumes?
post #20438 of 23170
Is there a way to create a high pass filter for a second sub using the 4311? My subwoofer doesn't have the control on its own. The issue is I am mixing sub brands and I don't want the weaker sub worrying about low bass. I do want to use audyssey.
post #20439 of 23170
Nope, no HPF options for subs in the receiver.
post #20440 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Nope, no HPF options for subs in the receiver.


Are there any receivers that offer that? When the 4311 runs audyssey, is there a way for it to EQ the subs separately rather than as one? Would that make any difference?
post #20441 of 23170
I'm not aware of any that offer it but it might exist... Regardless it's pretty easy to add an external HPF if you are concerned about overdriving the lesser sub at the low end.

You wouldn't want to do separate EQ, it's much better to EQ the summed response because that's what you actually hear in your room. EQing each sub to flat independently wont guarantee that the in room response ends up flat once the subs start interacting.

Any way you could sell the lesser sub and get a 2nd one of the other, so they have identical capabilities? This makes dual sub integration simpler.
post #20442 of 23170
I'm having trouble getting internet radio and running Airplay. I recently bought a wireless bridge and it appears to be connecting to my router - the lights on the bridge show a connection and when I display my network info on the 4311, it shows what I assume is a valid IP address 192.168.1.100 (DHCP is on).

Yet when I go to NET/USB and then Internet Radio, all it shows is 2 choices: Recently Played (which is empty) and Search by Keyword, which prompts me to enter a station (I guess), but nothing I've entered has ever been found.

Last month I tried a wired connection from my router and the first night I tried it, it showed a long list of stations by genre to select from. For some reason, the next day when I tried it (also with a wired connection), there was no list - just the 2 choices I have now. So whatever stopped working doesn't seem to be due to going from a wired to wireless connection.

I was able last month to download (with some difficulty) Apple Airplay (also with a wired connection). But when I tried it this week (wireless) I get no Itunes Airplay icon to select the Denon. I saw there was a recommended trouble-shooting list of actions in another thread here and I tried some of the actions: unplug the receiver, turn DHCP on then off etc., type in a different IP address, restart Itunes etc. None of these had any effect.

I'm assuming there's a general Network problem - not specific to Airplay - since Internet radio doesn't seem to work. For a test, I pressed both the left arrow and return button on the AVR, which I previously used to get an Airplay upgrade ID; it now says "no connection." So it seems like all network functions aren't working (I feel like Chevy Chase trying to get his Christmas lights to go on.)

Does anyone have any ideas what else to try, check etc? I see that an AVR reset is often recommended and I suppose that would be a last resort. Though since I'm having Network issues, I suspect that saving my configuration on my PC may be problematic.
post #20443 of 23170
I hooked up a pair of speakers today as Heights to add to my exiting 5.2 system, along with 2 speakers in Zone 2 connected to the FW terminals. I ran Audyssey calibration and all speakers were pinged, recognized and set up. The only anomaly I came across concerns the Amp Assign Screen. The screen for Zone 2 Height - shows the wides, and the screen for Zone 2 Wide shows the Heights. I selected Zone 2 Wides in Amp Assign and all other menu references indicate that Heights are recognized and active. Just wondering if anyone else has/had a similar experience?
post #20444 of 23170
At this point, is it safe to assume that 4311 is never getting gapless FLAC playback firmware upgrade? It is a bit silly to pay 50% more for 4520 just to get gapless and 192kHz FLAC playback, but I surely wish 4311 had these features.
post #20445 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisakuku View Post

At this point, is it safe to assume that 4311 is never getting gapless FLAC playback firmware upgrade? It is a bit silly to pay 50% more for 4520 just to get gapless and 192kHz FLAC playback, but I surely wish 4311 had these features.

At least those two features are one's that matter to me and help justify the extra cost of the 4520. I only have a few 192kHz albums so its not much but something.
post #20446 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

At least those two features are one's that matter to me and help justify the extra cost of the 4520. I only have a few 192kHz albums so its not much but something.
Did you get your 4520 yet and if so, did it solve your problems you had with the 4311?
post #20447 of 23170
No, the 4520 is due to arrive on Wednesday. I'm eagerly looking forward to trying it out.
post #20448 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

You have some good gear there and it should sound better with XT32 ON than OFF.
My experience is that once one has spent time listening and getting used to XT32 the SQ sounds kinda bloated or boomy without it. Prior to becoming accustomed to more accurate, "flatter" bass it may not sound as "full". Your attention has already been directed to the reference material on calibration and setup. And I'll specifically refer you to the Audyssey FAQ question on "lost" bass, click here.
It would be helpful if you'd post the sub ch trim setting in the AVR and othe bass management details such as if speakers are set to small and xover values. Oh, have you used Audyssey DynEQ when listening at lower volumes?

For 2 channel audio have you tried the audyssey setting that bypasses L/R channel? Cycle through the audyssey button on the remote.
post #20449 of 23170
^Hi Mag. Not sure why you're quoting me. I LOVE the Stereo SQ on my system with Audyssey ON, speakers set to small, 80 Hz xover, subs On. BTW, I have tried Bypass L/R and the SQ is simply not as good. It's better than Audyssey Off, because it still EQs the subs, but it's not as good as good ol' Audyssey. That's cuz you lose the EQ on those problematic freqs from the xover up to Schroeder freq-and in my room that's a bumpy FR graph without Audyssey correction.

As for the OP who had thin sound, I don't think the solution is less Audyssey (like Bypass L/R) but rather gettings the Audyssey setup and other settings right.
post #20450 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvinC View Post

I'm having trouble getting internet radio and running Airplay. I recently bought a wireless bridge and it appears to be connecting to my router - the lights on the bridge show a connection and when I display my network info on the 4311, it shows what I assume is a valid IP address 192.168.1.100 (DHCP is on).
Turn off DHCP on the bridge. Let your main router assign the address so that all your devices are in the same subnet.
post #20451 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

At least those two features are one's that matter to me and help justify the extra cost of the 4520. I only have a few 192kHz albums so its not much but something.

At $300 a pop, these two need to be really worth it... Obviously, Denon can't upgrade 4311's 96kHz DACs, but choosing to implement gapless FLAC playback on even entry-level '12 and '13 receivers, but not have it available for 4311 via a firmware upgrade is a marketing strategy that won't endear me to Denon.
post #20452 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

Turn off DHCP on the bridge. Let your main router assign the address so that all your devices are in the same subnet.

Thanks. Is that different from setting DHCP to OFF (or NO) in the AVR's Network Setup men?

In case it matters, the bridge is Netgear WNCE2001.
post #20453 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvinC View Post

Thanks. Is that different from setting DHCP to OFF (or NO) in the AVR's Network Setup men?
In case it matters, the bridge is Netgear WNCE2001.
ideally you would manually assign the 4311 a permanent IP so that it is the same everytime, but if you don't know how to do that, just leave DHCP on. Also, make sure the 4311's network stays on all the time. I can't recall what setting that is.

What you want off is the Bridge assigning it's own addresses. Turn off DHCP on the Bridge if it is on.
post #20454 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvinC View Post

Thanks. Is that different from setting DHCP to OFF (or NO) in the AVR's Network Setup men?
In case it matters, the bridge is Netgear WNCE2001.

Yes, it is different. It doesn't appear that your Netgear bridge has a DHCP server built in so you can skip that step.

Can you ping the 4311's IP address from your PC?

Open up a command (DOS) prompt (Start button -> Run. In the dialog box type in "cmd.exe" without the quotes and hit the key). A window with a black background will open up. Type in "ping 192.168.1.100" (or whatever the IP address of the 4311 is) without the quotes. You should get something like the following response: "Reply from 192.168.1.100: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64". If you get "Request timed out." or "Reply from 192.168.1.100: Destination host unreachable." then the 4311 is not on your network.

Make sure that it is on your network and not connecting to someone else's wireless network. Another thing to check is that your router's firewall is not blocking WLAN traffic from the internet. I know some routers have separate access settings for the LAN and WLAN.
post #20455 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisakuku View Post

At $300 a pop, these two need to be really worth it... Obviously, Denon can't upgrade 4311's 96kHz DACs, but choosing to implement gapless FLAC playback on even entry-level '12 and '13 receivers, but not have it available for 4311 via a firmware upgrade is a marketing strategy that won't endear me to Denon.

True, that is expensive for those two features. There are other improvements though, such as the network hub and improved UI. not that either of these are worth the price difference. Receivers, as SQ plateaus, have to rely on features to differentiate new and more expensive models. Some make the argument that anything more than $400 or $500 is not worth the money as they "all sound the same," I don't agree with this. I was compelled to purchase the 4520 because AVS didn't have any 4311s left and I had to use the credit from the purchase towards something else they had. Speaking of all receiver's sounding the same (note, not amps but receivers), I haven't seen Arny around lately, I hope he's alright.
Edited by Theresa - 1/6/13 at 5:29am
post #20456 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

Yes, it is different. It doesn't appear that your Netgear bridge has a DHCP server built in so you can skip that step.
Can you ping the 4311's IP address from your PC?
Open up a command (DOS) prompt (Start button -> Run. In the dialog box type in "cmd.exe" without the quotes and hit the key). A window with a black background will open up. Type in "ping 192.168.1.100" (or whatever the IP address of the 4311 is) without the quotes. You should get something like the following response: "Reply from 192.168.1.100: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64". If you get "Request timed out." or "Reply from 192.168.1.100: Destination host unreachable." then the 4311 is not on your network.
Make sure that it is on your network and not connecting to someone else's wireless network. Another thing to check is that your router's firewall is not blocking WLAN traffic from the internet. I know some routers have separate access settings for the LAN and WLAN.

I tried PINGing the IP address and get 3 lines like the response you said it should get (reply from..bytes=32) followed by a few extra lines that I can't read because the box immediately goes away (I've tried it quite a few times). So this would indicate it's accessing the correct network?

I poked around in the menu for the network sharing page on my PC (forgot how I got there , probably from the router software) and enabled the media streaming option (in case that applies to Airplay; I don't see how it would affect Internet radio) but this had no effect. (The router is Cisco WRT54G2.) I don't see any option for a router firewall.

Thanks for the responses so far Duc135 and Blipszyc. What should I check next?
post #20457 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvinC View Post

I tried PINGing the IP address and get 3 lines like the response you said it should get (reply from..bytes=32) followed by a few extra lines that I can't read because the box immediately goes away (I've tried it quite a few times). So this would indicate it's accessing the correct network?
I poked around in the menu for the network sharing page on my PC (forgot how I got there , probably from the router software) and enabled the media streaming option (in case that applies to Airplay; I don't see how it would affect Internet radio) but this had no effect. (The router is Cisco WRT54G2.) I don't see any option for a router firewall.
Thanks for the responses so far Duc135 and Blipszyc. What should I check next?

If you are getting a response then you are connecting to your own internal network. This is good.

The reason the window disappeared is because you missed the first step to open up the command prompt. Start button -> Run. In the dialog box type in "cmd.exe" without the quotes and hit the key). A window with a black background will open up. Do this again and this time type in "ipconfig /all" and hit the key. Scroll up on the screen and look for the lines "Default Gateway . . ." and "DNS Servers . . . . ." make sure the settings in the 4311 match your PC. If the settings match then try plugging your PC to the bridge. Renew the IP address on your PC and see if you can get to the internet. If you can, then it's probably not a setting problem on your router. If it works try hard wiring the 4311 to the router and see is Airplay and Internet Radio works again. If it does then it's not an issue with your 4311. If nothing connected to the bridge has access to the internet I would temporarily disable the firewall in the router and see if that fixes things. You may also want to check that you are not restricting anything under your Access Restrictions section (see page 16 in the OM for the router).
post #20458 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisakuku View Post

At $300 a pop, these two need to be really worth it... Obviously, Denon can't upgrade 4311's 96kHz DACs, but choosing to implement gapless FLAC playback on even entry-level '12 and '13 receivers, but not have it available for 4311 via a firmware upgrade is a marketing strategy that won't endear me to Denon.

Point taken, however, note that the "gapless FLAC" firmware update was only released to the 1913 and "CI" XX13 models. It was not made available to any XX12 models. New models are added every year so there is less incentive to upgrade older models when the goal is to sell the newer models.
post #20459 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

If you are getting a response then you are connecting to your own internal network. This is good.
The reason the window disappeared is because you missed the first step to open up the command prompt. Start button -> Run. In the dialog box type in "cmd.exe" without the quotes and hit the key). A window with a black background will open up. Do this again and this time type in "ipconfig /all" and hit the key. Scroll up on the screen and look for the lines "Default Gateway . . ." and "DNS Servers . . . . ." make sure the settings in the 4311 match your PC. If the settings match then try plugging your PC to the bridge. Renew the IP address on your PC and see if you can get to the internet. If you can, then it's probably not a setting problem on your router. If it works try hard wiring the 4311 to the router and see is Airplay and Internet Radio works again. If it does then it's not an issue with your 4311. If nothing connected to the bridge has access to the internet I would temporarily disable the firewall in the router and see if that fixes things. You may also want to check that you are not restricting anything under your Access Restrictions section (see page 16 in the OM for the router).

OK, thanks. I reissued the commands. The default gateway is 192.168.1.1 and the DNS Servers are 167.206.251.129 (and 130).

The gateway is the same as my router so I assume that's OK. The primary DNS server as displayed on my 4311 is 192.168.001.251 (the secondary one is 0's). Is this supposed to match the one that IPCONFIG displayed on my PC?

Is there any other significant info in this IPCONFIG box?

I checked my router's info and I don't have anything restricted (under access restrictions). I did check the Firewall tab (which says Block WAN Requests on the side) and saw that Block Anonymous Internet Requests and Filter Multicast were both checked. I unchecked them (should I have?) but that didn't make any differences as far as Internet radio and Airplay were concerned. (I only powered off the 4311 for a few minutes after making the change, in case that matters.)

I haven't yet tried connecting the bridge via the wire to my PC, or wiring the router to the 4311 (they're on opposite ends of the house so it's inconvenient when other people are around), though as I mentioned, last month I wired the router to the 4311 on 2 days and Internet radio worked only the first night.
Edited by MarvinC - 1/6/13 at 10:36am
post #20460 of 23170
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Point taken, however, note that the "gapless FLAC" firmware update was only released to the 1913 and "CI" XX13 models. It was not made available to any XX12 models. New models are added every year so there is less incentive to upgrade older models when the goal is to sell the newer models.

You're right, no idea why I thought XX12 models received it too. Still, 1913 having it while 4311 doesn't rubs me the wrong way. I understand the reasoning, but would still expect better firmware support for top-tier models.
/end rant
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK]