The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 684

Thanks Wilbur. I tried making those changes but had the same problems as the previous time I changed the DNS setting.

I looked at the instructions for the wireless bridge and I now think the problem may be that I didn't set up WPS correctly (if at all). I tried going thru their procedure last night: pressing a button on the wireless bridge, then going into the setup menu for the router ( I wasn't sure if my router (Cisco WRT54G2 has a WPS button) - but the setup menu got hung up at 98% as it was searching for a wireless client or whatever.

I searched and found that other people with my router had the same problem. I'm not sure how many were able to get past it. Anyone here familiar with this?

Anyway, I'll try the same procedure again tonite. The wireless bridge manual has a second procedure for non-WPS enabled routers. If the first procedure doesn't work, I'll try that one.

Question on setting up my Subwoofer with my 4311. I am running a DIY Lilmike F20 via a Dayton S240 AMP. I followed the Audyssey 101 guide regarding Sub setup but am not getting a satisfactory result. With my previous Pioneer VSX-21 setup I had the AVR at 0 on the sub channel level and the sub amp at about 10-11 o'clock on the dial (right between about 1/4 and 1/2 on the dial and it sounded really good.) When I ran Audyssey I had to set it at about 6 o'clock or 1/8th for the db's to be at 75 for Audyssey which resulted in a setting of -5 on the 4311 sub channel level. I was happy with how clean the sound was but not the impact/loudness but I tried it for a week as suggested in the guide. After a week I was still not happy as the F20 can really put out and it wasn't. So I tried increasing the level in the 4311 to +2.5 which was better but still the impact from the F20 was not there. So with the channel level at +2.5 I turned the amp dial up to the 9 o'clock position or 1/4 and am much happier with the sound. My only concern is this is counter to the audyessy guide but doing it within the AVR was just not producing the desired effect. I am just wondering if maybe this particular sub amp needs to be up at least this far to function properly. I would like to try running audyssesy with it at this setting but is doesn't want to proceed because its to many db's for the audyssesy calibration. So any advice on this, am I okay to just have tweaked it to my liking with the amp knob or should I be doing something else?

Thanks

^Hi. If you rerun with the sub vol knob set higher as you have it now, it will simply produce a more neg sub ch trim, and possibly max the trim out at -12. The reason for the recommendation to increase the trim in the AVR for more bass, vs using vol control on the sub, is that most subs, like yours, have an analog vol knob. And once you change it, it's impossible to get it back to reference level (unless you measured it with an SPL meter before twiddling it). In your case you clearly like non-reference bass so that point is pretty irrelevant.

You probably could have continued to crank up the AVR sub ch trim over 2.5, but higher pos trim levels could possibly overload the preamp stage if your sub amp's circuits are sensitive.

Basically, if it sounds good now, you are good-to-go.

 

It makes no difference where you add the gain - in the trim or on the sub. You can just ignore the Audyssey warning about the sub being too loud and proceed... see also SoM's reply and these FAQ answers:

 

f)3.    How do I set the controls on my subwoofer before running MultEQ?

f)4.    If I want to run my subs a little 'hot' where should I make the changes?

Thank you guys for the very quick responses. I guess I was worried that upping the gain at the amp would do something with the subs EQ negatively. I am happy with how it sounds now so I will just leave it as is! I am still just blown away by the improvement in SQ over my Pioneer Elite! One other question I just want to make sure i is normal sounds when powering up that I here what sounds like the main unit power on with a click and sort of low pitch twang followed by another similar sound which I assume is the electronically switched amp section turning on?

Got my 4520 hooked up. Works with all 1080p60 sources. Thus proving, for me anyway, that the 4311 wasn't working right.

Excellent News!
I had been in the background feeling for ya, with this frustration.

Will be interested to hear your performance and listening comparison of the units.
The 4311 / 4520 and new Marantz pre/pro are all on my "wish I could upgrade list"

I haven't run Audyssey yet but am watching War of the Worlds right now and am very impressed by both it and my subs.

So the emergence scene is creating havoc with your building

Very glad to hear that the 4520 is working out for you irt the 1080p/60 issue w/the 4311 you had...good news!

Glad to hear it and it must be a big relief for you to finally have the problem resolved.

The below has been working for me for ages on Firefox.

http://piro.sakura.ne.jp/xul/textlink/index.html.en#history

What? The original link was misspelled.
Edited by AustinJerry - 1/10/13 at 6:28pm

Did it all get edited/corrected? Dave's original post, your quote of that post and your reply to that post? They're all just text, and I can double-click on any of them and get the site - I thought that was your problem, that it was just text, instead of a text link.

In other words, I can double-click on ibm.com, and go to the ibm website - can you? If yes, then no worries, if not, then that little widget might be helpful.

Edit: Just testing a forum function.
Edited by fjames - 1/11/13 at 1:49pm

The original post was evidently edited. Let's move on.

Yes, and the rest of the movie too. I'm really enjoying the 4520.\

Here's one that has probably been hashed over many times:

I watched War Horse last night (3rd time) which prompted me to finally asked you guys for help. When watching a film with 5.1/6.1 soundtracks on BD (no matter the encoding ...DTS, DD, ect.), if there is far left or right (onscreen) dialog it sounds different than the center channel. The difference could be described as having an echo or coming from a can. My initial thoughts were that it was caused by A-DSX (which stays on in my HT) and the FW and FH speakers were adding too much "room". Perhaps I need to adjust the "width" (or is it called spaciousness?) of the FW's. I already have it set lower than the default. At any rate, the 4311 is calibrated and Audyssey is always on. The system is an 11.4. I have not tried turning DSX off, or reducing the calibration levels of the FWs or FHs.

Any suggestions? Anybody else ever notice this effect? Would the producer really intend to make the far left or right voices (that are onscreen) sound like they are speaking into a coffee can? The speakers are all Klipsch, but not the same model. Further, pink noise sounds very similiar in all channels, leading me to believe Audyssey did a good job of EQing.

Thanks for your time.

It's DSX. What DSX does is generate synthesized early reflections to make the room feel larger than it is. The generated content is based on the FR/FL channels. This works great most of the time when dialogue is anchored to the center channel, but when dialogue "leaks" into the FR/FL channels your brain immediately picks up the echo effect.

Thanks for the quick, concise reply batpig. I will reduce the "effect" of DSX to the minimums (by reducing the "width" and "height" of the FW and FH respectively) and see if that helps. If not, I suppose, for most content, I'll have to resort to making my 11.4 a 7.4 system.

I was wondering the same thing, but never bothered to ask so thanks legierk for asking and Thanks batpig for a simple explanation. I had experimented with my settings, turning DSX off and going with 5.1 (no heights) and adding pl IIz heights. I found that for some I prefer no heights and some others I prefer pl II z heights instead of DSX heights, although most of the time I prefer DSX heights.

What surround mode do folks use? I'm a bit confused. It seems like I can have the regular Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD AND Dolby PLIIx or DTS Neo:6. Should I even add those extra modes, or just listen to the base soundtracks? (I have a 7.1 setup) This is my first AVR that had this option. My previous AVR only had Dolby, DTS or Pro Logic, each separate. 75% of my BD playback will be from a PS3 (for now), so I understand that I have to have PCM turned on for HD Audio. The other 25% will be from a HD-DVD player. Eventually I'll move from the PS3 to a standalone BD player, but that's not in the cards right now.

The problem is that the "Stage Width/Height" parameter is simply a volume control for the DSX speakers. Reducing it will not reduce the "effect" in terms of the mechanics of what's going on in the background, it simply lowers the volume of those speakers. So it may not be enough to reduce the echo effect when dialogue pans away from the center channel.

It shouldn't be an issue for the vast majority of video content, since 95% of the time the dialogue is always coming from the center channel, but for those troublesome tracks the best solution may be to switch off DSX and then use PLIIz for heights (so at least you still have 9 channels operating).

It's really content dependent.... when DSX works right it's awesome, but you just have to choose which mode to use when you run into those troublesome mixes.

If you have a "standard" 7.1 setup (5.1 + surround backs) then you have two choices with 5.1 content:

- listen to it "native" with the base soundtrack (i.e. 5.1 with the surround backs silent)
- use one of the matrix modes to layer on top and create surround back content

Which you choose is really personal preference, but typically most folks will do the second and use PLIIx Cinema mode to create the surround backs.

There are a couple of other options (DTS:Neo, standard EX/matrix decoding, etc) but these other options only create a mono surround back channel (both surround backs will play the same signal). PLIIx Cinema creates stereo surround back channels and thus is the preferred choice for film content. By all accounts it really does a great job of extracting the directional info from the surround channels and steering it to the surround backs.

The important thing to understand is that it doesn't "hurt" the sound quality in any way when you do this. PLIIx only operates on the 2 surround channels so the front 3.1 channels are untouched. So it's not like you lose any sound quality when you layer PLIIx on top of an HD audio track.

In terms of your PS3 question, do you have a "fat" or "slim" model? The older "fat" models need to be set to LPCM output to get the HD audio, but a newer "slim" model can bitstream the HD audio track directly.

^^
Thanks for the reply. It wasn't clear in the Denon manual that the DPLx C only applied to the back channels. I have the "fat" PS3, and have it set to LPCM.

I did not know this. I thought it would reduce the "delay" or ambience in those channels.....good to know.
So the algorithm for PLIIz is different than DSX which could lead to less "echo"? With PLIIz engage I would have to have the SB speakers set to On AND have it set to what?? Matrix or EX? I just assume that if I disengage PLIIx Cinema to engage PLIIz, then I would lose my SB speakers.

You just gave me a scare. The only explanation I could think of for your understanding is that the new forum software was automatically changing quotes when the original post was edited. That would be somewhere in the general vicinity of outrageous, leaning toward insane.

I tested it, editing my post you quoted, hard refreshed, gave it ~45 minutes, hard refreshed again, and nope, your quote didn't get updated. Whew ...

Sorry for the confusion - I spend a lot of time on computer forums, where it's normal for people to toss out useful widgets, and being able to click on pure text (what your "link" was) and have it operate as a link can be very useful.

PLIIz generates "ambiance" based on info in the surround channels. So dialogue panning to the FR/FL will not generate any "echo".

You should be able to run PLIIx + z together to create a 9ch array. The processing of turning 2 surrounds into 4 for PLIIx shouldn't prevent you from also engaging PLIIz for the heights.

I'm hoping some of the experienced AVR-4311CI owners here can help me with a few setup questions.

I'm looking at replacing my 10yr old A/V receiver, as I am getting frequent surround channel dropouts, and I would also like to integrate my 2-ch stereo system with the new receiver. From following all the helpful posts in the Denon threads, I think the AVR-4311CI will fit my needs, but the operator manual is a little vague regarding zone 2/3 setup.

I currently have a 5.1 speaker setup that I am satisfied with and will keep. My primary media source is a SageTV HD300 media streamer with HDMI video out to a 37" LCD tv, audio via toslink to receiver. I also have remote "B" speakers in my workshop connected to receiver.
In the same room as 5.1 setup, I have a Nakamichi tuner/pre-amp/amp combo driving B&W Matrix 804's and Stax earspeakers. Primary source is Turtle Beach Audiotron for mp3/internet radio. This setup works fine, but the audiotron only supports around 26k songs, and no lossless codecs.

What I would like to do is run the 5.1 surround system as the main zone using the integrated amps on the 4311, setup one of the zones to drive the speakers in my workshop using the integrated amp, and set up the other zone in preamp mode to use as a 2-ch stereo system with the Nak amp and B&W speakers.

I'm pretty confident the 4311 DAC is several generations better than the one in the Audiotron, so that should be a step up in quality, but I'm not sure if I can have one zone using the binding posts, and the other using preamp out.

I appreciate if anyone with a similar setup could weigh in on the feasibility of my plan, or share their experience/suggestions for my next step. I'm seeing some good deals on open box/refurb 4311's, but I'm also open to other models that would fit my needs.

Thanks to all!

Yes. With up to 7.1 setup in the main zone, you can have the AVR power one zone with pre-outs to another zone as you want.

Thanks for confirming; I'm sure I'll have more questions once the new toy is unwrapped...