The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 692

@davehale...I've have had this issue w/4310 search "motorboat sound" "HD FM Radio" on the 4310 thread, there's quite a few of us. Sent my unit to Denon NJ replaced NIC card AND HD tuner, unfortunately unit STILL intermittently will do the "jackhammer" thing on HD FM Radio. I've never had it happen on my 4311, AFAIK you're the one of the first to report this on a A100/4311.

Thanks SoundofMind,

Reset only temp got me out of the motorboat effect. The 4310's did have this effect due to bad HD tuner cards. It did in fact come back again. I have an early A100 and they may have used the older HD Tuner cards until their inventory was used up instead of the newer one. I know most people don't listen to the HD Radio due to other music sources. I do because I listen to HD Radio during the early morning hours. I would suggest everyone try their HD radio over a period of time to see if this crops up before your Warrenty runs out. I have some time left so will ride the warrenty period to see if other issues crop up. Thanks for the heads up.
Dave

Most everyone with this issue had no further problems after getting the HD tuner card replaced. One 4310 AVS member had to have the tuner card replaced twice. My repair was done recently by Denon Panurgy OEM NJ in November, and I guess I got one of the older, bad cards. I've had a run of bad luck with 4310, but 4311 has been very stable.
Edited by davidbarrickman - 1/20/13 at 2:15pm

Thanks davidbarrackman, At least it has been a known issue so I can feel easier about it by not hitting a lot of buttons or unnecessary troubleshooting. After it warmed up from the early morning motorboating it has not been an issue. Could leave me to believe it does this only before warming up. Will continue to experiment and make observations.
Dave

I got XPA-2 and (2) XPA -5 up running over weekend. The preamp mode 4311ci 11.2 channel much better & sound amazing vs 7.2 channel
I still got Hum sound use these cables with (2) XPA-5.
So I went out, bought basic RCA analog (Red & White) cable same distance. No More Hum.
Any different RCA analog vs RCA Coax cables?

Hi all, could you guys please let me know if the 4311ci has an auto shut-off feature if it recognizes that it is being pushed too hard?

The reason I ask is that I just purchased a 4311ci last weekend, and set it up for the first time last night. I first tested a few Blu-Rays using the receiver and it sounded great. I tested out some relatively mild movies, so I turned the volume up to around -3.5db in order for it to be loud enough, and still be comfortable listening to it.

Then I decided to test out the built-in Pandora radio. It never even crossed my mind to lower the volume before testing out the other input sources, and the first song that Pandora played was ear-deafeningly loud at -3.5db, giving me an extreme surprise. I had to immediately try and turn the volume down. For reference, I estimate that Pandora should really be played at around -25.0db for me to feel comfortable.

Would having the volume turned up so high on such a loud input source possibly cause damage to this receiver? Or would the 4311ci have recognized that its being pushed to hard and shut itself off if this was the case? Please forgive me if this is a stupid question, but this is the first receiver I've purchased in 15+ years, and am worried that I may have just caused damage to a new $1K+ toy. Thanks in advance for the replies!
Edited by ChrisV8 - 1/21/13 at 10:02am

Yes, all Denon AVRs include a Protection Mode that will shut the unit down if necessary.

The 4311 does have a protection circuit. On my 3802 I accidentally shorted one of the speaker outputs and it went into protection mode. It took a while and it came back and everything was fine. I am betting yours will comes back on. Did the power indicator blink? Please let us know if it comes back on.

Hello: I actually have four Def Tech towers in my HT system, so they are set (by Audyssely) to Large. However, you can change their setting during the Audyssey setup process. You can review all the settings before Saving the configuration and change from Large to Small or vice versa, change distance or levels and crossover frequencies. In the past, Audyssey has sometimes set my towers to Small and sometimes to Large (most recently), but I always change them to Large if necessary. I have even run my powered Center speaker at Large since it has a built in sub as well, but currently run the Center at Small but with a 40 Hz crossover and it works great!

I have both a 4310 and a 4311 and the 4310 had the issue you describe. It is a defect in the tuner board and Denon had to come up with a different tuner board as simply replacing the tuner with the same board didn't solve the problem. Unfortunately, not a lot of owners ever listen to their HD radios, so it took awhile for them to figure out that there was a problem. Anyway, that is the solution, at least for the 4310.
Good luck!

I believe there is an impedance difference between regular RCA cables and true digital coax cables; this may account for the humming sound. I run both an XPA-5 and an XPA-3 with my Denon and they work and sound just great; no hum whatsoever. I use the Emotiva rca hookup cables for these amps.

Most vendors use the same 75-ohm interconnects for video and audio, and even if they were different the difference would not matter for audio interconnects.

Balanced systems handle the shield and signal ground returns differently.

Thanks for the quick replies, jdsmoothie and culliganman! My unit didn't actually go into protection mode, but I just wanted to make sure that the 4311ci did indeed have this feature.

Is this what the protection mode is designed to prevent? As in, recognizing that it is being pushed too hard and shutting itself off? Would I have caused any damage by accidentally running the receiver at a high volume from an already loud input source?

Again, sorry for the stupid questions. This is my first time owning a higher-end receiver. Thanks in advance!

Thanks Redbeemer.
I played HD Radio most of today. And I think I may have it isolated to one station only -103.3. I wasn't noticing the channel listing yesterday. Today I spent one hour per station - about 6/7 good stations here. 103.3 may be the culprit. The motorboating came up most everytime I tuned to it. But that is not an answer until I spend at least one more day doing the same type of listening. I am no Radio person but signal strength, close proximaty to the station, the ability of the tuner to reject or attenuate a too strong a signal may all come into effect. If so, I can do without 103.3 as I listen to weather, talk shows and local events. I do have a myriad of options to listen to music and the Denon will not go in for repair unless it gets substantually worse.
Dave

It's not likely there was any damage done.

I don't see the master volume bar when I am on BD. I have tried changing it from bottom to top and that made no difference.
The other input Sat/Cab works. It doesn't work with the blu-ray player off either.
If I go to amp on the remote I can see the menu on BD input.
I have text ON.
Is this right or is something wrong?

Edit:
I figured it out.
I had Video Convert OFF because I did not want to use the scaler.
I just turned Video Convert ON, and then turned the scaler OFF.

Seems to work, but did I create any other problems?
Edited by culliganman - 1/21/13 at 5:06pm

I've read discussion on the AVP thread about a firmware update a year ago which fixed the DSD -10dB LFE issue, sorry to beat a dead horse but both my Denon players have the "crippled" PCM for SACD. I believe it was reported on the 4520 thread that this bug is still an issue on the 4520...I've wanted to ask this for a while, does anybody have any idea why Denon addressed this problem with the AVP and neglected doing anything about it for the 4x10, 4311 and 4520? Thanks.

I know it still exists on the 4520. I don't know why it hasn't been addressed, however it is a total non-issue from my perspective. Decoding SACD to PCM in the player doesn't IMO degrade the sound one bit, assuming you have a quality player (e.g. An Oppo). Do you think differently?

Hi Jerry,

We have both spent a fair amount of time on this issue. I agree with you 100% as using PCM doesn't degrade my listening enjoyment of SACDs in the least .

Bill

I have 2 Denon DBP-A100(4010) players that I use in 2 different setups. I bought them at a close out price from AD w/5 year warranty.
OPPO was on my radar and still is...
It is my understanding that OPPO players do DSD to PCM at 88.2.
Unfortunately I don't own an OPPO, I do have a Marantz UD-5005 that does 88.2 kHz PCM for SACD and it sounds FINE, so no I don't think differently. It is a non-issue for most players. I drank the Kool-aid with Denon Link 3/4 (influenced by SOM & a few others here) and these particular Denon players have the "crippled" 44.1/16 PCM over HDMI for DSD. Actually this does not sound all that bad but not as good as the DSD to PCM from the UD-5005. The Denon DBP-A100 DVD-A1UDCI, DBP-4010, Marantz UD-9004 and UD-8004 players all output DSD to PCM at 44.1/16.
Edited by davidbarrickman - 1/21/13 at 8:01pm

Does anyone know, if you have the 4311 unplugged for a while if it will forget all of it's settings?

I had mine unplugged for over a week when I was doing my wiring and stuff, and cleaning up, and tonight I went to watch a movie with my wife and it sounded like crap. I then went to change the settings and notice that all of the channel level settings were not what I had them set to.

Well I then set them back to what I had them at (-6 for LCR and -2 for the subs) and it still sounded like crap.

After the movie I went and put in a movie (Saving Private Ryan) that I've demo'd on my setup like 5x and I know how it sounds, and again, it sounded like crap, even with those same settings.

So I'm wondering if it lost my Audyssey settings as well and simply is not calibrated. It sounded REALLY different than I'm used to, ESPECIALLY the subs. They did not pack a punch at ALL like it previously did before I unhooked everything to do in wall wiring. And I have dual caps so they are no slouch.

I am also wondering if my AWG on the wires I ran for the subs is thick enough or something. I ran 12awg for the subs and they are running about 55 feet total probably. They run about 5 feet from my amp to the wall jack, then from the wall jack in the walls to the other wall jack about 45ft, then from the wall jack to the caps about another 5 feet. They are running at 2ohms, and 12awg was recommended for 4ohm runs at that length. I'm really hoping that running the 12awg for 2ohm doesn't screw me over, because these are already in the walls and stuff.

Yes, it will not retain the settings forever. I believe the manual advises about a week.


Why wonder? Can't you just check? If you press the MultEQ button on the remote and it says "Not Available" then you lost your settings.

Did you save a backup config file that you could restore?

No, but "Video Convert" must be enabled in order for the GUI/volume overlay to display.

10AWG is recommended for that length and impedance, although 12AWG should suffice with average sub volume level.

I'm glad you reminded us of this issue as it wasn't mentioned and should indeed be taken into account when a high-end Denon AVR owner considers getting a DenonLink player vs, say, an Oppo. To my ear sending non- DL PCM from the A100 is a distinct downgrade in SQ from bitstreamed DL, despite the restored bass from MCSACD.

BTW I had previously been alerted to other issues in the .1 ch of music recordings by Roger Dressler. Having listened to several SACD and DVDA MC discs with the ext amps turned off I found that, as he'd pointed out, on music discs the .1 ch varies wildly in both content and volume as there are no standards followed regarding .1 in the music industry. I found several instances, such as some Steely Dan recordings, where bass sounded boomy compared to the 2 ch mix. The MC mix sounded better balanced to me when I turned down the SW channel and/or decreased the LFE LPF from 120 to 80. However I had not noticed a pattern of weak bass with MC SACD bitstreamed and decoded in the AVR. AustinJerry discovered it and spent considerable time and effort doing measurements tob pin down the problem as .1 content decoded 10 dB low by the AVR, to his great credit. IME the audibility of the problem varies disc to disc and track to track.

Once aware of the issue, I came up with a workaround. I listened to several MC SACDs with ext amps turned off and cranked the MV 10 dB above normal listening level to hear and measure what should be in the room from the subs if properly decoded. I then turned the MV back down and cranked the subs up till it matched the prior SPL reading for the same music passage. Once measured in this way, the sub ch can easily be trimmed up this amount manually in the AVR for those discs. A bit of a PIA but it works. I happen to have Velodyne DD10 subs with remote controlled digital Volume control and customizable presets so it's a single button press fo me.

That said, I will file another complaint with Denon CS and encourage others to do the same.

When I pressed the MultEQ button (I believe it was that one) it would simply cycle through all of the different Audyssey type of settings.

As far as a backup file, I had one saved from when I have my receiver upstairs but not downstairs.

So I may load up the backup file (because of other settings I had set) then run Audyssey again, then see how it goes tonight. I couldn't really mess with it last night as it was too late and the wife went to sleep.

I did definitely have it unplugged for more than a week. It was about 8-9 days.

sorry kind off topic
I currently have:
F: RTi12
http://www.polkaudio.com/products/rti12
Center: Csi5
http://www.polkaudio.com/products/csi5
FH & FW: RTi6
http://www.polkaudio.com/products/rti6
Subs: Klipsch rw-12d
http://www.klipsch.com/rw-12d-subwoofer
S & SB: Klipsch S-3
http://www.klipsch.com/s-3-surround-speaker

I'm looking upgrade my S & SB.
Which should I get?: Definitive SM350 or Polk RTi6 or Polk FXI A6
http://www.definitivetech.com/products/studiomonitor-350

Thank you.

 

That should work fine, as long as you re-run the calibration.  And, of course, the lesson learned is to always have a current configuration backup. 

A good basic guideline is to stay within one OEM for all speakers so to maintain timbre-match. For surround duties, most prefer bi/dipole design depending on placement to optimize the surround bubble envelopement. Unless MC music is high on your priority, bookshelf monopoles would not be the first choice.

So apparently it maintained the Audyssey calibration (or MultEQ would not have been listed as an option) but lost your custom settings?